Elizabeth Smart Says 13 Allegedly Malnourished Calif. Siblings 'Can Go On To Have Wonderful Lives'

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/elizabeth-smart-says-13-allegedly-malnourished-calif-siblings-can-go-on-to-have-wonderful-lives/ar-AAuPBUy?li=BBnbcA1

I would really hope they can go onto have wonderful lives. She is such a light in a dark world and a champion of the abused. I reslly appreciate what she had done with her life to help others. There have been people who have endured concentration camps, kidnappings, neglect and all sorts of terrible things but have experienced happiness. I am glad she is giving them hope.

I really hope she's right, but I doubt that she can know a whole lot about the physiological effects of nutritional, chaining children to beds for the better parts of years at a time, and other forms of deprivation for [in some of the cases] more than a decade with children in their formative years.

I applaud Elizabeth for her ability to look on the bright side after her ordeal.

I hope that she is right about that. The siblings are going to need a lot of help.

I don't think the other shoe has yet dropped for Elizabeth Smart.

I was severely beaten and tortured, and kidnapped and imprisoned and force-fed coffee to stay awake, so I could write papers for my Monster ex-husband, whom I was putting through BYU. It was for only a few months--not as bad as other innocents have suffered--but my parents never talked about what happened. I divorced my abuser, and was too afraid to press criminal charges. Somehow, I knew he would get off free. His next wife tried to have him arrested, but he was the close relative of an important GA.

Part of recovering form PTSD depends on the perpetrator being caught and punished in some way. In that way, maybe Elizabeth will be all right. Unfortunately, I suspect that her TBM parents have insisted that she "forgive." I think that Elizabeth's parents have not stepped up and accepted part of the blame, for bringing in a horrible, wild-eyed stranger into their house, and putting their daughters in harm's way.

I was also very brave, and went on with my life, and didn't talk about my past, although I had recurring nightmares, and I would wake up screaming. I would have anxiety attacks, which I would handle with yoga breathing, and breathing into a paper bag, and walking. I stepped up my career, kept fit and healthy, played the piano and looked pretty, and smiled. I was brave enough to get married again, and I had children, and raised them. When my second husband abandoned us, I returned to work, and supported my children, alone, in the face of Mormon criticism of single divorced working mothers. I finally broke down, and became depressed, and my work started to suffer. It was only then, when I could afford to pay for it myself, that I got help from a non-Mormon psychiatrist.

I'm so glad posters are saying that victims of abuse need help!

I don't think Elizabeth got enough professional help. Instead, her father seemed to capitalize on all of this, and GIVE advice, instead of follow the advice of others. Elizabeth is giving advice, too, and some of it is not very good advice. Encouragement and support is always good, though, but advice and help should come from professionals.

Trust me, Mormonism is no cure--quite the opposite. I could not heal, until I left Mormonism behind.

She seems to have it together to me. If she needs help in the future she can get it then. I do agree that the affects can be delayed, but she seems to be happy now..

I grew up terrorized and abused, MWN, and I agree. The "escape" itself led to a blissfully blind denial of all that had been. I was so happy to be free, that looking back seemed maudlin, unhealthy. I was happy just to wonder that I did not seem to have any of the ill effects associated with that abuse.

Physical recovery - I never front-of-brain associated the surgeries or other treatments I required with that abuse; it lurked in dark, self-loathing thoughts, but then, that was "normal," because I had only been known to myself as an object of hatred. I had merely joined the overwhelming "forces" of the abusers, and had no idea that anything besides my own faults and weaknesses were to blame. Even as I had escaped them, I had uneittingly brought my abusers away with me, in the most sacred place of all - in my identity.

It took many more years to discover a degree of mental health, than to heal my body, not that my body was ever returned to an undamaged condition.

I also agree with SCMD, but my wording lacks his skill or training. Though the growing knowledgebase of the brain's plasticity always leaves room for hope, I think it's possible that brains can be so damaged that human lifetimes simply are not long enough for that recovery to occur. I think there may be a couple of reasons for hope for these people, though.

First, the bio mom seems to be healthy - no reported fetal deprivation or abuse, yet. The bio mom was fed. Second, these "kids" had each other, other humans with whom they could whisper, communicate, learn, exchange glances, compare injuries, seek comfort. They were isolated, but not alone. Whatever prompted the escapee to run, she had the means, knowledge and support to garner a phone, know (and believe) that she could take photos and dial 911 with it, believe that not only would help come, but that what was being done to them was wrong, and that outside "stranger," governmental help would occur. That almost certainly was taught to her by an older sibling, in full defiance of their parents.

That speaks loads to the chatter that went on behind the bio parents' backs. The escapee could not have pulled it off without the collusion of her siblings. It would have had to have been a group effort. That means that their brains, at least some of them, remained funtional to those degrees.

I think we are also safe in assuming that the group photos showing overtly physically healthy kids, means that the imprisonment and starvation grew over time, and that starvation was not always the case. It's the younger kids, the ones denied proper nutrition for normal development, as SCMD stated, most at risk. Seeing how these kids helped each other, it's not only possible, but likely, that the older sacrificed for the younger.

There are a whole lot of things involving how the Smart family handled matters that the general public hasn't a clue about. Just because Ed and Lois didn't stand on a soapbox and beat themselves up over their choice to allow a vagrant to work in their home doesn't mean they haven't metaphorically beaten themselves up every day of their lives since the horrible incident happened for their choice of trying to help vagrants by allowing them to perform odd jobs at their home.

Regarding counseling, we really don't know much about that, either. Even if Elizabeth or another member of the family says she didn't receive professional counseling, we don't know that to be the case. The family is probably protecting Elizabeth's privacy with regard to that and to other matters. I have my own suspicions about a few other things related to the case for which I would probably be sued if I expressed them in a public forum, so I won't. I'm just saying that not everything about the case and the care and handling of Elizabeth was made public.

Mother Who Knows, I'm glad you found a way to create a new and fulfilling life for yourself. Not everyone has the inner strength to do so.




Mother Who Knows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> In that way, maybe Elizabeth will be all right.
> Unfortunately, I suspect that her TBM parents have
> insisted that she "forgive." I think that
> Elizabeth's parents have not stepped up and
> accepted part of the blame, for bringing in a
> horrible, wild-eyed stranger into their house, and
> putting their daughters in harm's way.
>

> I'm so glad posters are saying that victims of
> abuse need help!
>
> I don't think Elizabeth got enough professional
> help. Instead, her father seemed to capitalize on
> all of this, and GIVE advice, instead of follow
> the advice of others.

Elizabeth probably makes public statements when the network employing her tells her to do so, but she's pretty far out of her league on this one. She's been held captive, but she hasn't the education to have a clue as to the physiological and psychological damage created by years of malnutrition and other forms of mistreatment that would cause a twenty-nine year-old to weigh eighty-two pounds and to look like a pre-adolescent child. The twenty-nine-year-old likely has the mentality of a young child as well. Malnutrition does little to improve cognitive function.

I think the world of Elizabeth Smart, but she lacks the knowledge to speak with authority regarding the prognosis of those thirteen offspring. I hope she's right, but I'm skeptical.

There is a big difference when a daughter of a wealthy couple secures therapy and treatment and when 13 children are treated by the system.

From what I read those kids were tortured for years. That is not to say Elizabeth did not have torture too. Different degrees.

it so weird that Elizabeth smart is still in the mormonism that played a part in her kidnapping to the extreme. you would think after having an experience like that it would make you reexamine Mormonism itself itself. how in your mind could you see Mormonism as a true religion

It is easy for Elizabeth Smart to make such a glib remark, having grown up living an unusually charmed life, minus her horrific kidnapping and harrowing experience.

Those children have spent their lives in chains and bondgage prisoners inside their home.

It may take years to a lifetime of intense therapy to undo the damage that's been done for those children.

They are not out of the dark yet. Not by a long ways.

Their healing has only begun. They don't know what normal is, unlike Elizabeth did before her abduction.

It seems to me that Elizabeth's situation may give her some insight into what these kids have gone through. However, her situation is not the same as theirs... and no two people are the same in terms of resiliency. She also has the benefit of loving parents and support from a huge world wide community.

I don't think she should have made this comment.

Yea. BUT.

SHE isn't THOSE kids.

One look at the parents and I doubt they'll have much of a life. They were slavemasters. The 17 year old got ’em out!

She only speaks for herself.

Those "children" range in age from 2 years old to 29 years old.

It will be better for the two year old to get the help he or she needs, than say the 29 year old and other in-betweens from tweenies to adults - they are the ones who'll be in deep therapy for life. Sufferers of PTSD, abuse syndrome, uneducated, illiterate, etc.

It is going to be harrowing for them from here on out. There is no easy path for these children from their abusers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 07:53AM by Amyjo.

It's also a major difference that these 13 children were held hostage by their own parents from infancy on. Abused, neglected, tortured. How do they reconcile that with healing once they come out from that dark shadow they've lived under since birth?

Elizabeth Smart comparing them to her situation is disingenuous. It doesn't do them justice because it undermines all the excessive years and lifetimes of abuse they've suffered at the hands of their parents. Her experience doesn't even come close to theirs.

She suffered from the Stockholm Syndrome with her abuser and kidnapper. She was a victim herself. But it was a totally different crime of differing proportions.

Converts might have been mormons for a few years or a small percentage of their lives. They retain memories of being nonmo and they usually have family and friends who welcome them back to the real world.

BICs with extreme TBMs who control them have no such advantages.

Well said. My experience is nothing compared to these kids, but with my BIC brother leaving the church first, that was probably the event I needed to get out too. The older sister is a hero and savior to her brothers and sisters. Ms Smart is just a full time mom and part time ABC news commentator now. Her comments were on behalf of ABC, and was probably paid for those comments. If she can escape the TSCC then I will start seriously listening to her opinions.

I loved her statement, “It’s not what happens to you that defines who you are. It may shape you, it certainly will mold you, it might absolutely affect the direction of your life, but that does not have to define you. You can still move forward, what ultimately defines you are the choices that you make.”

She doesn't just sweep what happened to her under the carpet. It absolutely molded, shaped and changed the direction of her life. She has taken it and used it for good and seems very happy with her life. I love that she talks about it, that she tries to find answers to keep others from having to endure the same thing and she offers hope and help to victims who have been rescued from it and are trying to build a happy life.

Do you hear mormons saying, "why doesn't she just forget about it and shut up and move on?" No. Well, the same is true for a large percentage of people on this board. Yes, we have escaped, sort of, although it's kind of like the Hotel California. But it gives me that much more desire to talk about it, to try to warn other people, to keep them from falling victim to it, or if already in it, from thinking they can't move on. AND it makes me more eager to help those who have more recently escaped. To help them shed the brainwashing and know they are ok and can have a wonderful life, find real friends and real meaning. And to know that it will always be a part of them and that's ok. That's who they are. I hope I am defined by my choice to be my own person, to quit living scared, to fight against injustice to protect others, to make my own choices, to find my own truth.

Sadly, I think the fact that the parents were the abusers of these children makes all the difference.

It also makes Ms. Smart's comments essentially useless, no matter how well-intentioned. She was abused at the hands of a cruel stranger. Her parents never stopped looking for her, loving her, adoring her and healing her (even if they did bring the man into the house originally).

These children have been horribly abused at the hands of their own parents. If your parents do this to you, it's hard (perhaps impossible) to have any faith whatsoever that the world is, or can ever be, a decent place.

NYCGal Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It also makes Ms. Smart's comments essentially
> useless, no matter how well-intentioned. She was
> abused at the hands of a cruel stranger. Her
> parents never stopped looking for her, loving her,
> adoring her and healing her (even if they did
> bring the man into the house originally).

Uh...

Her abductor was cruel. He wasn't a 'stranger'. How was that possible?

Because her 'loving', 'adoring' (wtf?), healing (wtf X2) so-called parents VALUED Brian David Mitchell MORE than their children.

Their actions are only defended within the Mormon religion. Same religion who was started by a pedo and rapist and child molestor and liar.

True love doesn't neglect kids. True love doesn't throw defenseless ones to the wolves.

And Elizabeth needs to mind her own business. But sounds like her parents can heal people so hey, send these abused kids to the Smarts.

Jeezus.

I know she meant well, but it seems to put a lot of pressure on these poor victims.

If I can do it, you can do it.

Only what if they can't? Or they don't?

After my kid died, encouragement like that felt like judgement and pressure.

The best advice came from fellow survivors: If you get out of bed and put on clothes, you're a winner. Whatever you are feeling is exactly what you should be feeling. It's okay to be mad, sad, scared, and even happy.

I heard on the news today that the years of malnutrition, etc. has caused brain damage. I hope they can go on to live happy lives, but they'll have permanent damage to deal with.

Of course it isnt the same, but I dont see a problem with Elizabeth offering encouragment. With therapy etc. hopefully some or all of them can still have a decent life.

So the criminally negligent parents fed their children one meal a day. And those kids had one bath a year.

In between being chained up to their beds as punishment. Mom and pop left delicious pies and food on the kitchen counter for them to drool over, while starving them.

None knew what a doctor was. What medicine is, or a prescription. None of them knew what a policeman means.

Their parents are facing life in prison. What about their children who will have to live with their mental prisons for the rest of theirs?

A psychologist doctor on the news this morning says it's vital they be kept together if at all possible. Some are going to need more help than others depending on their developmental stages. They're all handicapped. What a travesty for them.

Hope they find loving homes that can keep them in close proximity to each other as they get the help they need to reset their lives.

I couldn't copy and share it but there was a very good opinion piece on BBC that said these people were inspired to have as many children as possible and it all unravelled when they couldn't afford them and kept having more.

I saw big Mormon families unravel while growing up in Utah. Unravel is not the adjective that I would ever use in this situation. These people were truly evil.

Looked and could not find it but William Shatner had a great show called Aftermath where he interviewed people who were ordinary until they were in the news about some trauma. His interview with Elizabeth's father was fantastic if anyone can find it.

Watching ES being interviewed on tv recently she said except for the 7/9 ? months of captivity her 3oish life has been a blessing. she was not happy when the supposed healing psychotherapists brought her in and asked detailed questions about her sexual abuse- she said she could not handle it and stopped going.

there is a certain level of maturity in how she handles herself on tv now who knows how her mind operates when those dark days and hours pass thru her consciousness. mo'ism provides structure to her life but the guilt of trying be worthy and/or perfect according to Mormon cultural mores is something else again.

I hope she's right, but they've got a long recovery process to go through, and not just mentally.