(unfortunately undercover) and can tell you that at least in this stake, faithful mormons think everyone who has left the church has committed serious sin, is committing serious sin, or is just dumb.

They are elitists who are certain that because they are blessed temporally (for the time being) that they've figured it all out.

I've tried to point out on a few occasions that there are exmos who are blessed temporally and are also or seem also to be very happy.

Minds close like traps.

more money:

You do not need to provide further IRL info.

Info can be added to other info...and this may be potentially identifying.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 04:17PM by Tevai.

Good point. Sorry was curious- barely use my brain ever

Well, it does make sense that in their orderly minds, 'actions have consequences' and the failure of exmos to be miserable would upset the mormon faithful no end!

I'm sure that it's easy for the elites to suppose that the opposite of 'the windows of heaven will open' is what all exmos should be suffering.

Thank ghawd they all have each other to reinforce their beliefs!

There is a word to describe people who think I should be suffering, and who think I'm a sinner--and that word is not "friend."

Anyone who wants something bad to happen to you, or who wishes for you to fail, or who wants to add to your unhappiness by shunning you is your enemy.

Can't you see that? It doesn't make any difference WHY these people want us ex-Mormons to fail. IMO, Mormons would not hesitate to add to our unhappiness and failure, in order to support their cult.

I know moremoney is right. The gossip and character assassination continues after 10 years--even though I have done nothing wrong, and even though "God is blessing me" with visible rewards, like a successful family, upgrades to my house, new cars for everybody--all those superficial "trophies of righteousness" that the Mormons covet.

Let them covet. Mormons love to covet, and be jealous, and feel persecuted.

Let's all make the missionaries clean our toilets, the next time they come over and ask if they can do anything to help. The Mormons did that to us, and maybe it's time to fight back a little. Enough is enough.

Some of you posters are being counterproductive, in equating "happiness" with drinking booze or coffee, having sex outside of marriage, swearing, and being uncouth. IMO, this attitude just corroborates the Mormons' opinion of apostates.

I'm happier than I ever thought possible, and I didn't change anything about my life, at all. In fact, not being a mormon anymore, I don't have to lie AT ALL, anymore, so I'm probably a better person. I gave up my racial prejudices--it wasn't hard at all--I think racism is unnatural. I'm not homophobic. I ELIMINATED a lot of garbage and hatred, by leaving the cult; therefore, my life is "cleaner" and better.

I don't need to get high to be happy. I don't need to rebel. I'm still not interested in porn or even most R-rated movies, because they usually depress me, and that stuff is no more "real" than sunshine and children.

I just wanted the Morons to leave me and my family alone. I just want to be myself, and manage my own time and money, and keep the rights that every good American citizen should be entitled to, if they obey the laws of the land. No--it is definitely not about rebellion or getting even or even "escaping". It's about being free to move on, to keep learning and loving and earning and laughing.

I owe nothing to ex-Mormons, either, and if I choose to remain a prude and not join in unhealthy pastimes, I have that right. Like Susie Q says, "What you think of me is none of my business."

Blow your tobacco smoke in another direction.
When you drink, drive your car on road that leads away from here.
Look at porn, but keep your thoughts to yourself.
You Mormons go ahead and lie to each other, teach hatred to your own children, but leave me and mine alone.

If the Mormons weren't so ambitious in recruiting innocent people and spreading their lies and evil far and wide, I would probably recover completely.

I guess I have committed what they would consider "serious sins" since leaving.

But...

I left the LDS Church because it is not what it claims to be. The "serious sins" were a bonus (and not so serious).

They're not entirely wrong.

It's just that what they consider "serious sin," we ex-mos consider "normal life."

You know, like enjoying a great cup of coffee.
Or a cold beer with our tacos.

Oh, the serious sin I commit daily, with my cup o' joe!

By the way, please be sure to let them know that in my case at least, I'm not "blessed temporally." I've worked hard, got a good education, and put it to good use. My "temporal" situation has everything to do with hard work, and nothing to do with imaginary Elohim-things "blessing" anything or anyone.

(so when are you getting out, undercover stake leadership guy?)

I was working on a few charts for my jazz band practice tonight when I saw this post. Let's see...

I was able to retire by taking what I had paid in tithing and saving it toward retirement instead for nearly 25 years. If I had paid tithing, I would have to still be working. Engineering was not a bad career, but I would rather be a musician. Not much pay as a musician though. It covers the cost of buying yet more instruments :-). It certainly is life enriching.

We are planning a trip to Ireland this year. Again, that would not of been possible when our surplus funds went towards tithing and church expenses.

The time now freed from church obligations has allowed me to pursue what I want and not what a religious corporation was demanding of me. It is not an extraordinary lifestyle. It is far better than the years spent as a Mormon. I feel sorry for devout Mormons. It is their choice however.

"Engineering was not a bad career, but I would rather be a musician."

I'm in the same boat, or should I say cubicle?

I don't think OP has stated anything that most participants on this board either already know through first-hand experience with TBMs or guess to be the case based upon usual TBM SOPs.

Don't most cliquey types believe they have the truth and all others are either sinners or dumb?

Those of us who open up to our believing spouses, sometimes do so without understanding what we are really up against.

I think my purpose in writing anything down here, is to warn those who are out mentally, but in for other reasons, to tread very, very carefully and slowly.

Mormons are nice on the outside and not so nice on the inside and will not hesitate to label you in a very mean way.

The believing spouse will initially side with this label.

He/She can't question the authorities at the beginning of this process. Their brains will not allow them to.

This will cause your spouse to treat you as a second class person for a while and struggle with the issue whether he/she married you or the church.

and...

This gossip - that starts when you publicly speak of your non-belief and try to explain it, will spread AND it will start from the top - stake president and bishop - whichever one you tried to convince.

They talk to their counselors and to their wives. The counselors talk to their wives. Home teachers talk and they talk to their wives. Bishops talk to relief society leaders.

Someone talks to someone else outside this circle, and usually many of them do.

By the time it makes its way back to the spouse - it's worse then you imagined. You are into porn or you have a mental issue or the porn is causing the mental issue.

Those are the reasons they use to justify your non-belief (if you are male), NO MATTER WHAT you say to them, how well spoken you are, how great your reasoning is, or what they say to you in response, and how kindly they say it.

They WON'T and CANNOT accept that you have any logical reason for losing your testimony. IT WONT HAPPEN.

As a result, I think that speaking to anyone about your belief or lack thereof, should be avoided at all costs, until you are certain your spouse understands where you are coming from, and some understanding about your relationship has been reached.


I write to strongly warn those here in my position, married to a believer...Don't trust a leader with your feelings and reasons no matter how nice they seem and no matter how smart you think you are about the subject.

So who is your favorite porn star? Lol.

All kidding aside, I totally agree.

My wife and I didn't say a word to anyone, we just moved out of the ward to the adjacent community and severed ties. We got a better house in the process and a better life! I'm sure somebody has figured it out, but nobody has the guts to approach us and ask. Fortunately for us, the adjacent community is in a different stake. That makes all the difference!

I like courtney cummz haha jk. Better than secret handshakes for 10%. I have my own handshakes hahaha for free. Badass to the boner i'm done for the night, that's all folks.

On a serious note i would never fake myself as a mole for longer than two years. It is still hard as hell to get out even if you don't believe in any of it. But if you ever get to a seventy position by chance i would love to know. It would be good to have a mole in the higher positions.

more money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those of us who open up to our believing spouses,
> sometimes do so without understanding what we are
> really up against.
>
> I think my purpose in writing anything down here,
> is to warn those who are out mentally, but in for
> other reasons, to tread very, very carefully and
> slowly.


Thanks for that. (And as other commenters have written, this isn't all new to many here, but you've written a nice, coherent statement of the things many have faced - no, continue to face.)


more money Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The believing spouse will initially side with this
> label.
>
> He/She can't question the authorities at the
> beginning of this process. Their brains will not
> allow them to.
>
> This will cause your spouse to treat you as a
> second class person for a while and struggle with
> the issue whether he/she married you or the
> church.
>


"Initially"..."at the beginning"..."for a while"...

If you're lucky, it's only for a while. In some/many/most? cases, it never stops, the TBM spouse continues to doubt the exmo spouse, at the same time continuing to side with TSCC.

I mentally checked out and physically stopped participation (attendance, paying tithing, wearing G's, etc.) just over 10 years ago. My wife still thinks I made the wrong decision. We can't even agree to disagree - every time I bring it up the discussion turns hysterical. (I want to resign, but I fear how she would react.)

Life sometimes cuts the arrogant down to size. It's pleasant when that happens. But due to the vagaries of chance, sometimes the arrogant are allowed to continue in blissful ignorance.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Life sometimes cuts the arrogant down to size.
> It's pleasant when that happens. But due to the
> vagaries of chance, sometimes the arrogant are
> allowed to continue in blissful ignorance.

And continue to live off of others incomes in blissful arrogance.

Well said Baddassadam1. Let's never forget they are the dictionary definition of leaches. The sweat of their brow comes from mind-fcking the ignorant.

When I talk to a tbm about my lack of belief, I always let them know how devastating it was for me to learn the things I learned. It wasn't a happy time, and I tried to look past all the facts that proved the church a fraud, but after a time I couldn't live the lie anymore.

I also am careful when talking to a tbm to say that if the church is "working" for them, then they should stay with it and look no further. It's not pleasant in all ways when you leave the church in a family of believers.

I don't really care what faithful TBM's who can't even figure

out the church is a load of crap think of me. I wish them well

in their stifling and repressive ignorance and I hope one day

they can figure it out and leave like I and many of my friends

did.

A life in the Mormon church is no life while a life outside

the confines of the church is LIVING, really living.

saucie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't really care what faithful TBM's who can't
> even figure
>
> out the church is a load of crap think of me. I
> wish them well
>
> in their stifling and repressive ignorance and I
> hope one day
>
> they can figure it out and leave like I and many
> of my friends
>
> did.
>
> A life in the Mormon church is no life while a
> life outside
>
> the confines of the church is LIVING, really
> living.

I thought about this today. Life in the church is no life at all. It is a slave's life in comparison to a real life.

It really is Baddassadam. We were like slaves... aren't you glad we're out?

Uh, barring any further info, I will venture that the OP's "Stake leadership position" is along the lines of "Stake toilet paper coordinator."

Sorry, but I am very skeptical of those who are still in the morg, have no indication of leaving, and come here to bitch.

Put your money where your mouth is, OP. Get the f*ck out of the Mormon Church or STFU. Otherwise, you're just part of the Godammed f*cking problem.

A spouse yearning to leave the church may realize that uttering "my way or the highway" to the TBM spouse has a pretty good chance of resulting in a divorce. The exmo in embryo may, for various reasons, not want to provoke such finality.

Thus we have spouses inching their way out.

The OP is here preaching to the choir and may have annoyed you. I don't think he's 'the problem'.

But we sure as shit are part of the solution.


"Softly, softly, catchee monkey."

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...exmo in embryo...


That's an awesome turn of phrase! I'm trying to work out if it's best as a band name, an album title, or the hook of a song lyric.

gotta pluralize it then: "Exmos in Embryo" and feature a large photo of handsome Lamanites!

LOL!! The toiletmaster is offended. Skeptical, you stooped too low on that comment. Wipe that smile off your face. You need to clear the air with the toiletmaster.

That’s hilarious!

Trump your skepticism. Sorry

As they should, sir!! I see no reason to self-immolate. Take whatever time and steps you need to take to protect yourself and be kind to those you love. There's no deadline.

NO! You can be here to have fun, you can be here to learn, you can be hear to lament, etc., etc. You just can't be here to try to convince me to worship your way.

New posters who may not have read much here (unlike those of us who have been here for a good long while) likely don't realize they are "preaching to the choir". They are just saying their piece and doing things their way. (This comment is not directed at EOD btw).

And as we know from so many diverse exits written about here, for some the leave-taking is instantaneous, for others it's a slower journey. I have read of many, many men who try, at least at first, to go easy so they can maybe have a chance to take their wives/children out with them.

It's not only interesting to hear about the innumerable experiences and exit strategies people go through, but it is helpful to many who read and consider what somebody else is going through and what they're thinking and feeling and how they coped. Sometimes it only takes one sentence, one thought, one phrase, to spark enlightenment in someone else that can change their lives.

There is also power in being heard, understood, vindicated that others have had similar questions experiences and reactions. Many of us know how it feels to be the odd one out in a crowd, the misunderstood, the shunned. Here you find people who know what you're saying.

As for being allowed, or not, to post here - only Mormon apologists are not allowed, as far as I know. We have quite a number of "undercover" posters, I'd say. Many have been successful if they play the waiting game, scattering thoughts here and there, hoping spouses will leave with them. There is more than only one pathway out.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/18/2018 11:52PM by Nightingale.

More money, enjoyed your look into the corridors of Mormonism. Would enjoy more updates.

I have TBMs in my family where the Mormon church is not a topic to be discussed. I shared years ago with them that I resigned, reasons for it, and very probably made the mistake of declaring that I hoped they would look into the facts. Plus, I dared to call Mormonism a cult.

I guess I could have said nothing back then and, if and when they asked about my non-attendance, I could have said, "I just choose not to attend." But, back then this was not how I could operate.

I think we humans are sooo varied, and our circumstances sooo varied, and our past, and our genes (and jeans, too), that....

...one size does not fit all, at all.

"Wickedness never was happiness" literally confirms to TBMs that anyone wicked enough to leave the church must be unhappy, therefore they must be sinners or just dumb (paraphrasing from the OP).

SonOfTheLeftHand Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Wickedness never was happiness" literally
> confirms to TBMs that anyone wicked enough to
> leave the church must be unhappy, therefore they
> must be sinners or just dumb (paraphrasing from
> the OP).

They think breathing is sinning for christ's sakes.

If Wickedness never was happiness, then, since as an Exmo I am a thousand times happier than I was as a TBM, I guess their definition of "wicked" is way off the mark. I do the things they call wicked and they make me happy. WTF?

I've looked at the cult from both sides now and I gotta say, "Mormonism never was happiness." They are all to busy judging to ever figure that out though.

My opinion is that anyone is free to give their time, effort and money to religion, but if they require their children to do that, especially to a church that brainwashes, they are one step away from child abuse. TBMs for the most part are ignorant of this, and I will give them a pass, but if you know better, you really should correct this.
Other people here might like two-timers, but I personally can't stand them. When it comes down to real insight I believe they know nothing.

Some of us would enjoy hearing your take at the stake level of the new priesthood councils.

Any insights?

Thanks to the marvelous Gift of Discernment its unthinkable that you could stay undercover for any amount of time at all. Being in a Stake leadership position is such a high and holy responsibility that Heavenly Father could not risk having someone with any Doubts stay in such a position for long before the Stake President is alerted by the Holy Ghost via the Gift of Discernment.

I just got to imagine how wonderfully amazing the Gift of Discernment must be for the mighty First Presidency. I especially imagine some of the most important decisions they must make. For example, I'm reminded of how the super holy Apostle Richard R. Lyman was so awesomely righteous and obedient in all of the commandments, along with service in his holy calling, that the Lord Almighty decided to have him be the President of the European Mission in 1936 right before WW2. How inspiring to know that the Lord got it right :)

Okay I guess he had his foibles but nothing much serious. Probably he looked the wrong way at some people and they threw away their salvation by being offended. And yes he had a minor little adultery issue for 18 years that might trouble some but since he was sustained as Prophet, Seer, and Revelator then it must have not been a very big deal. Heavenly Father is most concerned about the important commandments and not the little ones.

apatheist or whatever I am with pride. I was such a good little mormon girl. I didn't realize all the other mormon girls weren't being good, too, or at least most of them. I'm the one my parents were sure I'd never do anything "bad." They were devastated by what happened to my life. Most of my family said, "No, not Colleen," when my life fell apart. I had very few people in my family try to get me to go back including my parents. My aunt who was always in a leadership position and her husband was a SP didn't want me to go back. She wanted me to find happiness. We were very close.

I wouldn't say I'm at "peace." Most of the time I am. Been struggling lately. BUT I have no qualms whatsoever about my lifestyle. In fact, when I read things like this post, I think, "Oops, I've got to be worse than I already am. What shall I do now? Have a drink tonight at dinner?"

NOW, I get to choose. Now I live as I want to live. My biggest source of pitty is watching mormons on fb trying to outdo each other. Trying to show how blessed they are. They all know that the guy who I wanted to marry at age 20 has now been back in my life for 13 years and that I've been "blessed." My life is going MUCH, MUCH better than it ever did while I was mormon. Hell, I even found out how much my "husband's" pension is. He has never told me in all these years. Since we share expenses by sharing the home I held onto, he'll take care of most of the bills and I can actually retire, which I didn't think I'd be able to do.

So ha ha ha ha to all those people. They all just watch and wait for my life to explode. They've been waiting 13 years. I even got an inheritance from my parents that improved my lot in life in a big way and I didn't have to pay tithing on it. My siblings who are not mormon are doing much better than those who are mormon.

"Our" song was "Only the Good Die Young" when I was dating my boyfriend in 1978. I always felt more comfortable with the "sinners" and felt out of place at church as I was never accepted. I'm very much an introvert. I'm where I always belonged. It just took a long time for me to figure it out.

Another addition. I gave up R rate movies in my early 20s and I was trying to be perfect when I was trying to save my ex, but I've been going to R-rated movies ALL THE TIME for years and years. Some of the best movies are R. I took my middle schoolers to see Gladiator and the next Monday one of their favorite teachers played the soundtrack and asked if anyone recognized it. Only my 2 kids did. My daughter brought home "Midnight Cowboy" and "The Graduate" to watch. I'd never seen them. Now she won't go see R rated movies. She misses out on some good stuff. I can't remember the last one she wanted to se SOOOO BAD, but couldn't. I don't even check ratings. If I want to see a movie, I go see it.

And yet, 2 years ago when the bishop asked my daughter to give a talk on who she knew who did the most about giving to others at Christmas, she used me as her example speaking in THIS WARD. And I haven't been to church in over 20 years.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2018 01:47PM by cl2.

The consensus here seems to me a little less than half of LDS marriages survive one partner learning the truth. Surely they try hard to get the other partner to see reason. But there are none so blind as those who will not see.

Once you’re in Satan’s power, you’re radioactive. It’s so culty.

when I first told my mormon family that I had a few problems with something I'd read on the LDS.org website they were 'sorry to hear that' and dismissed the whole thing. I thought they might ask what was bothering me exactly but they didn't. It seemed no major big deal except me having a 'faith crisis' (I never once called it that) that they apparently assumed I would 'get over' like everyone else who studied church history did.

When I got to the stage of actually denouncing the church their attitude changed and I could sense how difficult it was for them to have me around. I also had to fend off numerous sudden offers to have my kids over which I could not allow, obviously, unless I supervised because we know what the church teaches.

Opie has a point. If anyone has left mentally but not told anyone, in my opinion it is best to keep the 'I'm studying and looking for answers' phase going for as long as possible because taking it any further turns one into the enemy; a threat to their salvation, and to be avoided at all costs.

I couldn't help myself eventually and actually denounced the church and the founders. They look at me with suspicion in their eyes now. Avoid this if you can.

When I was in the Church, good things happened to me and bad things happened to me. When I left the Church, good things happened to me and bad things happened to me.

I realized that I was still a good person and an honest person.

I had no more or less “blessings.” It’s all just Life.

more money, my ex mo and closeted apostate friends told me that's actually one of the reasons some Mormons stay in the church is because "it has worked out for them." They don't bother to question the history or what's off about the church.

Someone here once said, "It's cheaper to pay tithing than alimony."