I expect snarky responses but I do have a point.

Sex evolved as a social activity even for non-social creatures.

I have no ideas just an ideology.

The danger in both lies in the person like a monkey in a cage transforming their natural sexuality into a non-social activity.

I think some animals masturbate in nature by themselves but it is a hard argument to make that sexuality in the spectrum of living creatures was much evolved as an individual activity and not one involving at least two creatures.

I've recently realized that "solo dancing" is harmful for me personally. I don't judge people who do it. I can't say I never will again. I try not to judge people who gobble up all the terrible foods humans designed for other humans specifically to increase their consumption appealing to their "monkey in a cage" existence. Their cheap, easy, and addicting calories. I eat them from time to time.

This is an interesting an important perspective on a topic that is almost always discussed in a different context.

The ethics of self-pleasure are one thing, the effects on relationships another. I'm not sure I've thought it all through, but it is a worthy topic.

Thanks. I realized as I was aging, that in my late 40s acting like I was 16.

My youth had masked a problem. The same with bad foods. My ageing digestive tract was not able to handle the torture I was putting on it when I was younger. My reproductive system as it aged started showing me that I couldn't keep tapping the system for both private time and special time with another.

If only I had realized that I shouldn't defend porn and masturbation because they were coping mechanisms. If I wanted to live in a cage they will do as well as whatever food was provided me.

I can just throw my shit at my keepers in their mishandling of my biology.

"My problems with masturbation and porn"

You have a problem with that too? Don't worry, it's common, and afflicts a majority of the men in Utah.

There is help available........if you don't have an aversion to electrodes.

Is that supposed to be funny. I was expecting better.

No, it was snarky, just like you said you expected.

Jonny the Smoke Wrote:
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> You have a problem with that too? Don't worry,
> it's common, and afflicts a majority of the men in
> Utah.

Snarky. Funny too.

> There is help available........if you don't have
> an aversion to electrodes.

Neither.

OK, OK :)

Not that I'm spitting on your parade, EB, but...

I'm pretty sure sex evolved long before any living things were "social" in any way. If it hadn't there wouldn't have been living things to be social :)

Sharing. I changed it to social for us.

And funny how if a couple of young men share heterosexual (or homosexual) porn and masturbate together this is seen as a variety of adjectives none I think that are positive.

As a young Mormon I thought it was more deviant than doing it alone. What I didn't realize till now was that it was probably better for me psychologically speaking. As a Mormon it was a "greater sin."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2018 06:02PM by Elder Berry.

EB: There is no problem, unless you think there's a problem. If you think there's a problem, there is a problem. Be kind to your heart. Nude (from my prospective) women are beautiful. Even those with covered shoulders are pretty cute, too.

I do, IMHO, believe porn creates an energy. It substitutes for something else. Not judging. Have seen it. Would rather live it than watch it. That's the trick. Being able to live honestly with someone completely connected with us and wants to live it.

From Indiana Jones: "Choose wisely...."

"KY for everyone....who's in?"

Nude is beautiful. Porn (I should have defined it by me for you) is sexual content for the express purpose of sexual arousal and expression. It can enhance sexual activity alone or in a group.

Masturbation as the only means to express oneself sexually is desirable to no sexual expression if your individual biology needs such expression.

Modernity and its many clothings of natural things entraps us.

Porn is a boon to societies where sexual expression is limited.

This is my point. It is like mashing up food for those lacking teeth.

Erotica and sexually charged things I don't think of as porn. Porn is designed for personal arousal. If arousal is always alone and under the egis of it being nasty and bad, I believe it puts our primate heads into a sexual cage. I cage my homosexual side and only let my heterosexual side express itself with my wife.

Some people desire prisons to avoid the social repercussions of aggressively seeking sexual expression.

Non Mormon girls masturbate and watch porn, like guys.

Mormon girls, however, feel guilty about it, whereas Mormon guys consume and do it, and may or may not feel guilt.

The visual excitement for guys doesn't go away.

But married women might or might not feel the need to attract or be noticed.

But guys will always notice the contents of yoga pants. It's the way we were programmed.

6 iron Wrote:
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> Non Mormon girls masturbate and watch porn, like
> guys.
>
> Mormon girls, however, feel guilty about it,
> whereas Mormon guys consume and do it, and may or
> may not feel guilt.
>
> The visual excitement for guys doesn't go away.
>
> But married women might or might not feel the need
> to attract or be noticed.
>
> But guys will always notice the contents of yoga
> pants. It's the way we were programmed.

Mormon females, teenagers and adult women masterbate as well. The church leaders never address this they deny women are sexual beings....no surprise there. Porn is fine, masterbation is great as is making love. You can do all the above.

Frequent masterbation reduces prostate cancer. Look up the Harvard study and others on this. Yet another thing Mormons got wrong.

Big T Wrote:
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> Yet
> another thing Mormons got wrong.

I think they get things wrong in degrees. They put their degree of sexual glory into multiple wives instead of accepting their natural "man" of masturbation. I've read that only as a man reaches an age of risk does frequency of masturbation apply.

Love the one you're with even if you are always with only yourself is my mantra.

Try to get others involved in your sexual expression is a goal if it is only a spouse. When both people are "equally yoked" sexually I could see the need to be more social less important for me personally.

We are working uphill in a snow job of Mormon madness about Celestial sexual conditioning.

If we start with the assumption that sexual desire, and its expression, is a natural part of human biology, and is not of itself evil, then it seems to me whether such expression is "good" or "bad" for someone depends upon the consequences of whatever expression is used, and how it is used; be it intercourse or porn induced masturbation. And, no doubt, the consequences of either form may be "good" or "bad" given a wide variety of human contexts; including the consequences on spouses, the harmful consequences of any compulsive or addictive behavior, or even the psychological self-degradation that may result from viewing extreme forms of pornography, like child pornography or pornography involving violence.

However, your post seems to imply that the pleasure or the gratification itself is bad for you, regardless of consequences. "That" suggestion needs an argument or rational explanation, hopefully beyond religious dogma. Otherwise, it seems to be just a psychological reaction; perhaps a remnant "hang-up" born of prior Mormon indoctrination.

Personally, I do not understand why any woman would feel threatened by a husband who *occasionally* needs to express his sexuality through fantasies involving other women on a computer screen. To my knowledge, such fantasies do not typically involve a desire for marriage, a desire for a long term commitment, or the desire for an intimate, love centered relationship with the pornographic subject. It is just biology. Notwithstanding, if such viewing results in compulsive behavior, spousal abuse or neglect, or thoughts involving the degradation of women, these are consequences that transcend any otherwise innocent sexual expression and gratification. The problem, if there is one, is that human nature, social mores, and the marital relationship, are each and together already so psychologically complex, it is perhaps not surprising that the dynamics of pornography and masturbation often have negative consequences. But, again, there is nothing inherently wrong with sexual desire, sexual expression, and sexual gratification.

Thomas Reid Wrote:
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> But, again, there is
> nothing inherently wrong with sexual desire,
> sexual expression, and sexual gratification.

I never said there was anything wrong with sexual desire, sexual expression, and sexual gratification.

You think I implied things I didn't.

Whatever works for you. I think masturbation and porn can be more about being locked in a monogamous cage.

Doesn't sound like a problem at all. You weighed your intersections and please and made a decision to improve your life. Sounds all grown up.

Thanks.

Masturbation can enhance social interaction by releasing sexual urges so you can interact with others without being all wound up about sex.

Also, masturbation can be part of what a couple does together.

I watch porn from time to time. Enjoy watching old flicks and clips from 1980 or early 1990s. Many actresses are a meaningful part of my memories. Still hot. Sadly though! Many of them did not live so happy lifes after their career.

Masturbation takes care of urges when a partner is not available for whatever reason. Also, many woman would have no idea what brings them to orgasm without the practice of masturbation to guide them.

As for men, I seem to recall that it aids in maintaining prostate health.

Most nevermo men (and some women) view porn. I've never seen the milder-to-moderate types of porn do any harm to them. For the most part they marry, hold down jobs, raise families, etc. about as responsibly as one would hope for.

I've seen porn, it's boring, and if you turn the sound off and put in a narrator you could almost think you were watching a Nature style programme about human mating.

Sex scenes in films tend to be different. You know who the characters are and have some understanding of why their are attracted to each other.

There’s a reason old time boxing trainers forbade all sexuality in training camp. The reason is sublimation: taking sexual energy and turning it into physical, violent energy. Nothing like abstinence to set a man on edge.

Catholic priests, too, must learn to sublimate sexual energy. When successful the energy is turned into a social energy.

I think Michelangelo was pretty good at sexual sublimation.

Also, curtailing or abstaining from ‘solo dancing’ in marriage can cause a more focused, loving energy towards the spouse.


But all of the above’s benefits are derived via successful sublimation, which doesn’t come naturally. Sans sublimation, abstinence only brings frustration and none of the boons. So if you’re gonna abstain, know what you’re gonna do with the excess energy.

Human

Different strokes for different folks.

Like

Ummmm, what interests me here, is 'How did it get started'?

Did God plant this urge inside us, to "multiply and replenish the earth"?

I don't believe 'evolution did it', (someone is always trying to claim they found 'the missing link'), any more than I believe that nature evolved humans from a creature that strayed away from the ocean and learned to breath air and walk, and also accidental learned how--and gained a strong desire--to recreate 'their' own kind.

It's all in the mind ultimately

Your pleasure neurons can't tell if you're with a partner or not

Everything we do is for self pleasure even when we're with someone else

Your psychology can and it is a huge part of your sexuality.

Masturbating before a date can really help men put things in perspective. If you're in the regular world, not the "wait until marriage" Mormon world, there is a chance of sleeping with the other person.

If a guy is too eager to have sex, he might make poor decisions. He might make compromises just to have sex; pretend to enjoy things she enjoys, or pretend to be somebody he's not. This turns out badly for both people because she'll eventually figure out he's not being authentic.

Let's face it, not every girl is a nice person. If a guy is too eager to have sex, he might tolerate bad behavior from the girl. He might even enable bad behavior. Or he might just ignore red flags.

So have a wank before that first date. You'll see things a lot more clearly. And you'll probably make better decisions. If you see red flags, you won't be desperate so you'll find it easier to cut things off.

Sometimes, there is nothing wrong with the other person. It's just not a good match. But if you are too eager, guys, you might get involved an miss a chance to meet a better person for you.

After a few dates, you probably don't want to masturbate before the date, just in case you end up in bed together.

Good luck!

T-Bone

There is something about Mary...

I like your strategy T-bone. It also helps to masterbate before the first text i think. You could go way off the rails pushing for sex before a date even happens.

Context is that TBMs are always searching for items to make themselves seem Superior to others, even if they enjoy the same conduct as those who they Denegrate, demean.

Many young TBMs feel like they have a badge of courage in virtuously abstaining from kissing until marriage. Crazy that leaders would wholeheartedly support that.

I still don't know what to think about it all. Sometimes i think it is unhealthy to not look at porn as strange as that sounds. Like i'll lose my sex desire or something and become a mobot thinking sex is weird. Just a crazy perspective. I used to beat myself up about porn, but the beating up part was more unhealthy than the porn itself by far.

Mormonism has an all or nothing, black and white approach to everything. Nuff said.

I personally didn't realize how toxic my culture, religion, society and all was to my biology until my age started to show me.

We think we are invincible when we are young and Mormonism encourages this "eternal perspective."

If we cultivate biology-friendly habits when we are young, imagine how much healthy we could be when we are old?

All things in moderation. Too much wanky ruins the real thing. Enjoy a burger now and then but too many burgers make you fat and too much wanky make you go flat.

Like. And it isn't just too many over the course of a day, week, or month.

I didn't realize porn was eye candy literally until I was in my late 40s and withdrawing from the bank like I was 16.

And your epiphany is relevant to people recovering from Mormonism how, exactly?

Is it required to?