Well my exmo internet friends, I did it. I told my parents due to our schedule we are not available for a visit for Easter or around that time. It had to be done because I can’t let them control me. I expected a bad reaction- but it still makes me sad. Wish I could say whatever and not care, but it stings.

As predicted, it did not go over well and they had a temper tantrum. I refused not go into defending, justifying, or explaining, which they totally tried to get me to do. They piled on the guilt big time- basically saying I’m a bad daughter and don’t care about them. I don’t need to put on an act that I care. (Sigh)

Now it’s my fault they are not with family during the holidays and I’ve RUINED EASTER for them. (BTW they do have other family in same city to spend it with.)

I’m disrespecting them as heads of the family because as long as they are around these are their decisions. It’s my fault that in addition to ruining Easter now they have nothing to do that week. I guess as their adult daughter it’s my responsibility to entertain them when they are bored. /s

If you didn’t see the prior they told me they were coming from out of state to stay in our house for a week+ and to celebrate Easter. We had a big blow up 2 years ago when I left the church, so I avoid anything religious. As we don’t celebrate Easter- that was really a no go.

I know they are being immature and irrational, but it is so frustrating to be demonized when I’ve done nothing. Lots of people say family comes around once they adjust, but I can’t picture that with their narcissistic traits and Mormon indoctrination.

I know no one can fix this- just wanted to say it sucks.

It can be very difficult to say no to a parent, but in your case it had to be done.

Sorry you had to deal with this, but it was necessary.

Perhaps you could treat yourself as a reward, a special treat, flowers, a bubble bath, or a good book.

Agreed -- you did what's best for you and your family.
The "extended" bunch can huff and puff and be offended all they want to, you still did what was best.

I know that's little comfort right now...hang in there!

Their bullying behavior will stop once they realize it's not as effective as it used to be. So at least you'll have a more peaceful future to look forward to.

They sound like a couple of spoiled.immature children.I'd tune them both up -- they both seem in need of an attitude adjustment.

Good call!!

The best way to deal with guilt-piling, big blow up, temper tantrum throwing, immature, irrational, demonizing parents/family is to establish boundaries and deal with them on YOUR terms. Poor behavior should not be rewarded, and being “blood” does not give them a pass. If they can’t handle that, they need to learn how to handle not having you in their lives. Yeah it sucks, but I imagine having them around ruining your Easter week would suck a lot more.

Congrats on establishing your own parameters. Hopefully they will “get it”. If not, drop the hammer on them again when the time comes.

Yeah…what Cheryl says…go treat yourself to something nice and look forward to a stress-free Easter holiday.

Congrats on standing up to them! It sounds like it was painful. But you should be proud of yourself.

Good job! You did it! It will get easier as you continue to standup for yourself and not back down. Yes, you are the "good child" and it's difficult to go against the pleaser mentality engrained in your personality. But for you, and your family's sake, stand firm and strong.

So, you've ruined Easter (basically a holiday that Mormons barely celebrate) and they have no one to be with. So what? Big deal. Many people spend Easter alone. They can always go to their stake center and watch conference with their cohorts. They could always host an Easter party for other empty nest parents. And you nailed the fact that as grownups they should have learned how to entertain themselves with a world full of fun activities they can do alone. Can't be alone? Grow up parents. It's time. And if they can't, what's the problem with the other good, TBM children? Did they fall off the earth or something?

If you have correctly identified your parents with narcissistic tendencies you may expect they will eventually try the "You are such a great daughter. We just love you, your husband and children sooooo much. We hate to stop seeing you" if they get the idea their ranting, shaming, and condemning didn't work. Narcissists often reel in their victims with sweetness to throw them off guard. Many think to themselves "Oh, they've changed. They truly love me and are sorry for their previous behavior". Wrong. They will reel you in only to get you back for more shaming and guilting. Be on your toes. It's very tempting to believe they mean all that sugary stuff because you want to believe it so much.

Usually they will try shunning you for a very long time before they try the "sugary sweet" approach. They are now in "punishment mode". Be prepared. They've been doing this for a long time and they know your weaknesses probably better than you do.

Did you offer a later date to visit with them? Did they accept your suggested date?

Narcissists are best dealt with according to the degree of narcissism. If they are truly malignant in their narcissism then stay as far away as possible for as long as possible. If they are somewhat to fairly manageable you may be able to have limited interactions.

You have already made the connection between the often seen maternal/paternal domination that pairs so strongly with Mormon teachings that parents rule over children eternally. This is not unique to Mormonism. Narcissists love religion in general because almost all religions teach that parents rule over children. This works in your favor as an apostate. They already think you are headed for Satan Town or Outer Darkness so just embrace that. But....it's hard on you being a pleaser. In your words "It stings". And, boy, do they know it so you mustn't show it.

I think you should use the probability that others of your family will eventually leave Mormonism as a goal to stand firm. The first one to break the ranks always gets blasted the hardest. Your family, maybe not your siblings but possibly their children, will thank you for being the one to take the first blow. Small comfort now but you really are breaking ground and you are being a good parent as well. Your children really need to see you using good mental health practices in your relationship with your parents. Unhealthy (emotional blackmail) is not a legacy you want to hand down to your children.

Since you won't hear it from your parents, I'll say it in their place: Good job girl! You're a credit to your family, gender, and other former members of Mormonism. Leaving the dysfunction behind will be your new family legacy. Embrace it. Hats off to you girl!

We already had an agreed-upon later date prior to this a few months from now. They were trying to add one next month to this. Later is when we have the time to see them. Plus, I need time in between visits to have the emotional energy for it.

Who knows if any of our siblings will leave. My spouse and I are both the only defectors. We have the challenge of both families upset. I do hope this makes it easier on any future people. But, it’s enough for me that I got my husband and kids out. Also, any theoretical future descendants are not going to go through this.

I understand the seriousness of your posting, but it put a smile on my face as it reminded me of the nature of aging parents. Not just TBM parents but many parents. The aging takes its toll past age 70 and the roles of parent/child can potentially reverse.

In my case, my parents seem like the teenagers now, and I am the one sounding like the voice of reason to them. I just hope that it doesn't continue to the point that they become big babies and I end up changing their diapers or wiping their ass in a care home. This may sound disrespectful but it is not. It is just on an observation that I've been making as of late. Not all parents become this way in old age.

My wife gives me the following advice: "They are getting old. There is no point in arguing. Just let them believe whatever they want to believe. You are not going to win with them, so keep the peace! Why continue to let them control your emotions as you do?"

In reality, it is my wife that is the voice of reason here. I'm glad to have her giving me advice, otherwise, the relationship with my parents would be tenuous at best.

Good luck OP. I hope that Easter next year will be better for you. It is evident that they really love you as their daughter.

Be prepared to remain unforgiven until you make suitable amends.

But don't give in! Live your life for yourself and your family!

They keep a menagerie of wrongs and offenses to feed and pet. They will bring things up years- a decade later. Even if I tried, which I won’t, you can never entirely make amends.

What sucks even more is living life as a perpetual doormat.

You made the right decision and, even better, you know you did.

Their arrogance, bullying and tantrums, which always worked previously, no longer do, and they can't handle that. The longer they shun you, the better your life will be, and the easier it will be for you to set the terms under which they will be granted conditional re-entry into your lives.


"I can’t let them control me."

That's exactly right. No, you can't.

I'm so sorry your relations are that strained with your parents. That has to hurt.

>>I’m disrespecting them as heads of the family because as long as they are around these are their decisions.

Good for you! You taught them a valuable lesson -- these are NOT their decisions. They are free to inquire if a visit on a certain date would be agreeable, and you are free to be unavailable for a visit due to other plans.

View their temper tantrum in much the say way that you would view a toddler's temper tantrum. It has the same level of worth.

As one of my former bosses used to say, "They'll get over it."

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >>I’m disrespecting them as heads of the family
> because as long as they are around these are their
> decisions.

I choked on that one too.

This hit a nerve with me as well. Your home, your family, your rules.

I am going to go out on a limb and guess that they said something like this to you when you were younger, along with “when you move out and are paying your own bills, you can do what you want.”

(((((HUGS))))))

I read your "from the head" explanation of how things went, and I hear the pain you are in.

That is what the virtual hug is for. Your pain.

to not react to their tantrums. To choose what you can do for them and only do that. If you don't react to their tantrums, they'll get further and further between.

It worked with my mother. I used to have people tell me what nice things my mom did for me and she did, but many times she did things in a passive-aggressive fashion. Holidays were horrible, especially mother's day. You can have your meltdown and they don't have to know.

But it worked for my mother. Actually, when I told my therapist one of the things she had done, he smiled a big smile and said, "Oh, she's good!"

I have many experiences with my family. My older sister, who I no longer talk to, when I was pregnant and on bedrest with twins, had to leave my job early, and I was even babysitting her 4-year-old son during the day free, they kept getting stuck in the snow in their piece of shit car and then want me to come and rescue them. After this going on for years before and then in this situation, I told them no and I cried and cried and cried. They called my BIL's single brother to help them and he did. WHY THE HELL didn't they call him before. I had a roommate who used to tell my family I was asleep when they'd call at 10 p.m. to have me come and jump their cars.

I'm like you. I have a hard time saying no. Just go silent on them. Don't react to anything they have to say. You have to try to hold your ground because, like my therapist said, the behavior will escalate for a while.

Anyway, it has worked for me.

"I’m disrespecting them as heads of the family because as long as they are around these are their decisions."

The above is what I found incredibly abrasive and controlling. They have not figured out that they are no longer the head of anything. You are an adult and you make your own decisions for your life and their desires are no longer factored in with any weight attached to them.

You have cut the apron strings. They don't like it. This does not jive well with their patriarchal system of the Mormons.

Yeah- I’m married with kids and we get to decide what we do. They seriously think the next generation (me) don’t have the right to change things or make our own traditions. Not controlling at all.

They sound like two-year-olds, but with bigger vocabularies. Good Lard.

cl2 gave good advice.

they only care about you insomuch as you make them feel accepted.

if they really cared, and you told them you don't believe in the church, they would respect you enough to ask your personal reasons why you didn.

It’s pretty clear their love is conditional. They did ask why I left- they figured it out and confronted me. They know the reasons why, but they maintain I just don’t understand and am offended. I did not leave because I got offended. I was an active member most of my life. I’ve researched and read a massive amount- way more than they have- so it’s insulting they think I somehow just don’t get it. They like the narratives the church tells them about people who leave. It is not productive to discuss further, so I refuse to discuss religion further.

To make you 'suffer' for saying no, they may opt to cancel their next planned visit. Teach you a lesson. Win - win if it happens. You can only hope. lol.

I feel for you. It would be nice if doing the right thing always felt good—sometimes it really hurts. The way you described them, it’s very likely will try to abuse you again. Next time will also hurt, but probably not as much. They may never change, but you have changed—for the better.

That would be awesome, but I won’t hold my breath.

It sounds like they may have been really mean about it. You are going to have problems with them in the future as you well know. Sometimes it is good to come up with scripts for dealing with difficult people.

For example: I have decided not to allow people to talk to me that way anymore. I am going to hang up. If you are able to be nicer in a couple of days when you aren't so angry, perhaps we can try speaking them. <<Then hang up the phone.>>>

Your parents are a piece of work, I'd avoid them like the plague.

Good parents do not behave in such unreasonable ways.

Brace yourself, you will probably always have to set limits with them or they'll walk right over you.

>>I’m disrespecting them as heads of the family because as long as they are around these are their decisions<<

That's messed up. They don't get to make decisions for your family. What you do on a holiday or any other day of the week is none of their business.
Stand your ground and hold steady!

Um, your parents won't be alone! They will be with each other. Do they think a spouse is chopped liver?

Many people are alone for holidays--really alone. I know people who have no spouse, and no children, and are still happy, because they have single friends, or they go hang out at the senior center, read a book they've always wanted to read, or they go for a walk, or clean their garage, or cook and freeze meals for days when they will be busier. I have done all those things.

I lived alone, for a few years, and I thought it was permanent, at the time. I wrote cheerful letters, texted photos back and forth, and spent evenings with my dog. No matter what, I could always find happiness in other people's happiness. A good parent wants their children to live their own life, without dealing with guilt and garbage and unnecessary unhappiness. (That's why some of us left the cult.) Children becoming autonomous adults is a right-of-passage, in normal life.

Give me a break. Your parents can look at photographs, and remember better times, when their children were little, and could be controlled. They can go out to dinner together, go to a good PG movie together, join a Mormon Bible study group, stay home and binge-watch TV together. I love the idea of them watching conference together--LOL!

Your parents choose their church over their ex-Mormon children, every time they throw a tantrum. Mormonism was their choice, and it is their own fault if that choice is not making them happy. Take what they said literally: these are their decisions. It isn't your responsibility to fix bad decisions.

You're right, that you can't fix your parents--but you CAN look at things with a new perspective, and get rid of your own guilt. Your feelings are yours, and how you respond to these fanatics is up to you, too.

You need to not let this happen at Easter. I have a violently abusive older brother, who beat and tortured me, my whole life. I left home, but my parents were in denial, and kept insisting that I see my brother. He NEVER STOPPED abusing me. When he started hurting my children--that was the end! The only way I could protect my children is to have no contact. Since my brother lived with my parents, and because he could manipulate them into feeling sorry for him, and into blaming ME, and blaming my children for being "cold and distant," I had to stay away from their house.

Several times, when I couldn't get out of a visit honestly, I would pretend to be sick and contagious. My brother used to buy an expensive airline ticket, and TELL me when he was coming--not ask--and it was for about 10 days, usually. I would tell him and my parents that a visit was impossible, but he would come anyway, rent a car from the airport, and bang on my door, and look in the windows, for hours. He would go to the neighbors, but none of them had a key. He would impose on them, for a glass of water, or food, and make up lies about me, to get their pity, and to embarrass me with the neighbors. When he came to my house with my parents, he used to steal things, go through my private tax papers, and "accidentally" break things, when I was away at the office.

Manipulative people know how to push your buttons. Therapy might help you. I'll never forget one session, when I was saying how bad I felt that I couldn't be around my brother, and and I was blaming myself, and my psychiatrist said, "Your brother does NOT love you. He never loved you!"

You know your parents best, but as one poster suggested, maybe they only love you conditionally, on the condition that you and your family stay Mormons, and you "respect" your parents' "decisions", which is impossible for you to do. Maybe they do love the cult more, and your TBM siblings more. Knowing where you stand could be a tremendous relief to you.

I invited my parents to visit at MY house, without the brother. Usually, they refused during holidays, because they didn't want to leave the poor, sad bully home alone, but that was fine. We would see my parents in the summers, and had some good times together, on MY terms, without my brother there. No one suffered. My brother had other victims to pick on, and he had free room and meals in my parents' house, with a gardener and a cleaning lady and a cook.

I never felt sorry for him, that he wasn't allowed to abuse my children, and me, the way he wanted to.

Get rid of your guilt, by thinking things over. Decide what you are willing to give to your parents, and set your boundaries.

<<Your parents can look at photographs, and remember better times, when their children were little, and could be controlled.>> Thanks that made me laugh.

I’m sorry for the nightmare of a brother you have! It sounds like you did a lot of hard work to get to a good place. My parents have done the buy plane tickets and THEN tell me when they are coming thing too. Must be a manipulative person thing.

I’m actually looking forward to the day when it might just be my husband and I for a holiday! So I don’t grasp why it would be so bad. The question I’m asking myself is why out of all possible things to do- they are fixated on coming here? It’s not my job to solve their problem so I said nothing, but was thinking they could A- go have a nice Easter dinner or brunch together at a restaurant (they are selectively righteous- don’t believe in Sabbath restrictions); B- volunteer somewhere; C- host an Easter dinner and invite other couples with grown children, single people, those with families far away, etc. D- take a vacation together and most obviously D- go annoy one of my TBM siblings for Easter.

I have been seeing a good therapist. I have depression and anxiety. When I left the church, I went back up on appointments to process all of this and deal with the fall out. I’ll always have some mental health issues, but being outside the church has decreased my depression and anxiety in some ways. The church was an unhealthy place for me.

My opinion is that they saw you as being a pushover. They picked on you deliberately. You just sent a strong message back to them. They will move on to their next victim, at least for now.

It sounds like you truly need a vacation from your parents. It's wonderful how you handled them for their intrusive and disrespectful behavior. If it really takes you some gearing up and enduring a big emotional drain to interact with them, maybe consider going no contact for how ever long you think is good. Sometimes becoming estranged from toxic people is the only healthy and sane option. Life is just way too short to put up with assholery.

My suggestion: contact Dr. Phil's people & see if they'd invite your parents to go on with you to explain your POV...

Worth a try? Maybe Phil can get them up to speed.

Radio silence works for me...
You did a great job standing your ground.