Recovery Board  : RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum. 
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In
Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: February 26, 2018 11:58PM

Seems to be some folks here who refuse to believe that TSCC does not want it known that Hitler was necrobaptized.


http://nowscape.com/mormon/hitler_temple_records.htm

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 12:05AM

I think I can speak for Jews (as well as Gypsies...GLBTQ people...children born with disorders or deformities...and etc., etc., etc.) when I say...

...the Mormons can have him.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: ProvoX ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 01:43AM

He wanted "World Domination", but had to settle for "Celestial Glory"

Or as (also dead-dunked) Groucho Marx would say:

"What a lovely bunch of coconuts"

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE1 ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 02:28AM

Funny/ironic, because Mo Scripture says people can't repent after they die; besides, how is A. Hitler going to Restore - Restituion to ALL his victims???

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 03:32AM

GNPE1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Funny/ironic, because Mo Scripture says people
> can't repent after they die; besides, how is A.
> Hitler going to Restore - Restituion to ALL his
> victims???

This is an important eschatological insight I have never thought of before.

It also applies to Idi Amin, Ivan the Terrible, Torquemada, Genghis Khan and all of those others, throughout history, who did either the "same" thing, or things equally reprehensible.

Which leads to an important question: Does the LDS church dead-dunk those historically known to be torturers, mass murderers, and genociders?

For example: Genghis Khan??

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 04:46PM

LDS doctrine does in fact allow for forgiveness for people after they die.

when people pass away, their spirits go to the Spirit World, which comprises Paradise and Prison. Missionaries go from Paradise to Prison to teach those who never heard the gospel on earth. If they accept Mormon Jesus, they move from Prison to Paradise, come forth with the righteous in the First Resurrection, make progress (with a body) during the Millennium, and can in some cases make it all the way to the Celestial Kingdom.

It was additionally Mormon doctrine till about the 1930s that there would be progress between the kingdoms, so over vast stretches of time a person in the Telestial Kingdom might pass to the Terrestrial and then the Celestial Kingdom. That is no longer taught, but it was. So in theory, very bad people could still go all the way.

Mormons think they are giving the dead the chance to repent for mistakes made on earth (many sins are forgivable even though restitution is impossible) when they necrodunk them. I'm sure some Mormons think it would be really cool to meet someone famous, even infamous, in heaven and be recognized for having done that person's temple work.

"Hey, Genghis, how you been?"

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:19PM

How do they make RESTITUTION for hurts done?

RESTITUTION is necessary for repentance.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:24PM

Restitution is required where restitution is possible.

If you drive drunk and hit someone, you have not murdered them and hence are capable of forgiveness despite the fact that you cannot give them back their life. When you commit the (Mormon) sin of taking someone's virginity, you cannot provide restitution. If you steal someone's investments and then both go broke, you lack the resources to recompense that person. And even if you did, the damage to that person's life, education, family, etc., is permanent.

The rule is that you make as much restitution as you can. Full restitution is sometimes impossible and that does not preclude repentance or forgiveness. If it were not for that, there could be no spiritual progress in the Spirit World.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:42PM

They dead dunk anyone who's name they can get their hands on!!!!!!

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: February 28, 2018 05:04AM

Since you brought it up, is there a Jewish eschaton? Some ultimate destiny?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: February 28, 2018 05:55AM

Babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since you brought it up, is there a Jewish
> eschaton? Some ultimate destiny?

When I was going through my conversion-to-Judaism classes, the Christians in my class were seemingly "always" asking variations on this question...it came up a LOT.

The answer our different teachers (all of them rabbis) gave was, in words appropriate to that rabbi, that this was generally not an important question to Jews...

...that the task of human beings pertained to THIS world (with the specific "job assignment" of Jews being "tikkun olam," which means: "repairing the world"---in other words: by your own personal efforts, leaving the world at your death a better place than it had been when you were born)...and that "olam haba" (the "world to come" [after your death]) would take care of itself.

This answer, regardless of the words used to phrase it, consistently unsettled the Christians among us because they wanted to KNOW what, as a Jew, was going to happen to them after they died...and the rabbis kept saying: It doesn't matter---be a mensch (a "good person"), make the world a better place than it was when you arrived here, and (in the words of Doris Day) "...what will be, will be."

And then the next week's classes (we went to class two nights a week, on Tuesdays and Thursdays) would come around, and the Christians would be asking yet again: As a Jew, what is going to happen to me after I die?

[I should point out, for those who care, that the rabbis who were our teachers were Conservative or Reconstructionist...which are sort of variations on the "same thing." There are some differences between these two movements, but they are not important differences, and they can be easily reconciled in real life.]

Also in real life: although you won't find many (or any!) Jews who believe in heaven and hell, or heaven and purgatory and hell...you will find a percentage (still a minority, but probably a growing minority) who do believe in reincarnation...

...to the point where there are often, in different areas, a particular rabbi, or (plural) some small number of rabbis, who effectively become the "go to" person(s) when someone is relating, or is confused or troubled by, past life memories (which are usually WWII-era memories).

Some of these people are adults, and some of them are children...and whoever they are (whether they are Jewish or not, and regardless of their age) they need to talk to someone who is going to listen seriously to what they "remember."

Because of this, it is my sense that there is a very quiet, and slowly growing, acceptance among Jews of reincarnation (whether reincarnation in general, or reincarnation in the case of particular individuals).

This is NOT "officially Jewish" in any way, and NO Jewish movement is going to claim that "reincarnation is true" or whatever, but it IS taking place (and has been since about 1944 or so). This is all going on very quietly, with those involved downplaying even what they might personally know is occurring...mostly on a Jew-to-Jew level (with one tiny, and virtually unknown to anyone exception, no one I know of is writing books about it...no synagogue that I know of is discussing it publically, and the "go to" rabbis will usually not discuss it for anything even remotely approaching publication), but on the down low, it is happening privately...sporadically...individual Jew to individual Jew.

The "public" answer to your question is: "We don't know"...and this is likely to be the "official" Jewish answer for at least (I estimate) three more generations...

...even if, in private, there are a [small] number of Jews who accept that reincarnation, at least in some specific instances, probably does occur.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: related link ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 06:01AM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 04:29PM

related link Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,1909314

Thank you, related link...

:)

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 07:25AM

The Mormons were closer to Hitler in life than they were the Jews. They supported the hunting down, helped to smoke out Jews in hiding, and worked as SS guards and Nazis in Hitler's army.

They deserve each other, Tevai's right.

They have no right to usurp the Jews autonomy to remain Jews in death by baptizing victims of the Holocaust. Or any Jews anywhere living or dead.

They attempted to post-humously baptize Elie Wiesel while he was yet living. How effing sick is that?!

Morally bankrupt and degenerate.

Hitler epitomized pure evil. There can be no redemption for him. Nor forgiveness for his crimes against humanity.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Justin ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 07:34AM

And if you were to find out that just before he died, Hitler said the sinner's prayer and received Jesus into his heart, what would you say?

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 08:34AM

Didn't happen.

Hitler was a sociopath in life. He died as one. He had no regrets only that he lost after murdering millions of innocents.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: February 28, 2018 06:11AM

Yeah, but the atonement makes it all okay. That’s why the baptism. Mormons don’t know dumbfuckery when they see it.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: GNPE! ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 10:45AM

the people mentioned weren't 'evil', which is a hypothetical construct; rather, they were (just) misunderstood...


/cynicism

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 08:05AM

That's what happens when they teach that Jesus can forgive and atoned for sin.

Who cares about the victims when God is all about love and forgiveness for sinners.

REAL punishment is for non-believers.

Mormons just take it up a notch.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Justin ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 08:17AM

Hitler can be forgiven, but the dreaded apostates go to outer darkness and are never forgiven.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 08:45AM

My rabbi believes for those as evil as Hitler was his soul will be extinguished in the afterlife. That will be his reward for the life he lived.

There can be no forgiveness for pure evil. In this existence or worlds to come.

That's why it is not expedient to forgive others for atrocities such as the Holocaust. When people say forgiveness is for themselves, that's hogwash. There is no justification for pure evil.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 04:55PM

There is a passage in the OT that expresses that idea metaphorically.

As I remember it, God is a potter throwing pots, which are in this case people. The ones that turn out right are put aside for firing and eventually for use. The pots that come out bad are pounded back into the ground to be used as raw material for other pots later.

The implications is that while most people, good or bad, will stay on the normal track, the truly evil ones will be extinguished, their spiritual "stuff" used for entirely different and more promising creations.

The potter's ground later took on other meanings, including the place where indigents were buried. The various motifs show up in some old Christian hymns and, inevitably, in one or two Johnny Cash songs.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 28, 2018 07:02AM

Thanks for sharing that. That may well be where rabbi got his understanding was based on that scriptural reference. That would make sense. Old Testament teachings in Judaism are what's known as the Tanach.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2018 07:03AM by Amyjo.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: tithingiswanted ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 09:58AM

Well, he did follow the word of wisdom more than most mormons do.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 10:18AM

There wasn't a word of wisdom anywhere in Hitler's body. Not even his pointy little finger. When he failed, he failed miserably like the miserable wretch of a hangdog that he was.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 04:32PM

Hitler may have abstained from the more common substances, but in his final years he grew addicted to a number of very potent drugs like cocaine and opiates, perhaps speed. He had a strange doctor who encouraged this.

Towards the end, Hitler's generals and advisors often complained that he wasn't even coherent anymore.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 04:55PM

Anymore? He never was coherent, LOL
Yeah, towards the end, people saw his true side , unfortunately it was too late

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:12PM

Yes, we are on the same page.

He was a lunatic, but one who people understood and who responded to events around him and around Germany in a reasonably logical way. He was like a lot of other sociopaths (although a number of psychologists think he may have been more of a male borderline), including perhaps Charles Manson. But such people can be charismatic leaders and impose major political and military changes.

Towards the end, though, the years of emotional stress plus the reportedly enormous volume of chemical substances stupefied him and seriously vitiated his ability to think and communicate. He started demanding policies that would destroy Europe and Germany in a sort of Gotterdammerung, and his generals and aides increasingly ignored him and did what they thought made more sense for Germany.

So he went from something like internally consistent and effective insanity to chaotic insanity.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:51PM

Hockeyrat Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anymore? He never was coherent, LOL
> Yeah, towards the end, people saw his true side ,
> unfortunately it was too late


Actually he was very articulate .That is one of the main reasons he came to power was his ability to get people to believe what he was saying . He knew how to work a crowd with his speeches. He played on people's feeling and fears . To say he was not coherent is simply not true . I certainly do not agree with fascism or dictatorship. kind of like an orange haired world leader we know today

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:58PM

Ok dead dunking Hitler , Pol Pot , Hillside Strangler etc. I don't agree with the practice no matter who they do it for . I very much have a problem with them not respecting them victims of the Holocaust . No other practice of the LDS Church screams cult the way this one does

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: February 28, 2018 12:29PM

Yes, in the early 30s and before maybe, that’s how he fooled people, even the Jews didn’t see it coming back then.
Later on ,he was screaming and ranting like a mad man , and the later half of his life, he seemed like he lost it, in the mental department, especially when he knew he was losing and the Russians , Americans and allies were moving in.
He really went ape on last minute extermination’s, death marches, when we were right behind him, so to speak

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Visitors Welcome ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 04:06PM

I find it so uneducated when people will talk about someone and cannot even get his bloody name right. Is it so difficult to check such things before posting?

Pardon my rant, but the number of spelling errors on this forum is getting worse by the day.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 04:26PM

Visitors Welcome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it so uneducated when people will talk
> about someone and cannot even get his bloody name
> right. Is it so difficult to check such things
> before posting?
>
> Pardon my rant, but the number of spelling errors
> on this forum is getting worse by the day.

On RfM, it is specifically not allowed to call out people, especially in a bullying manner, for spelling and grammar faux pas.

This board has a considerable number of readers around the world for whom English is a second (or third, or more) language...not everyone has their own personal computer (and those people may be using less-than-convenient devices)...it can take a great deal of courage to post here, especially initially...and being called out for grammar, spelling, typing, or device errors is directly counter to why this board exists.

"Grammar police" posts are most often hidden, and those who post them are in violation of the rules of RfM.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2018 04:27PM by Tevai.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Visitors Welcome ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 04:57PM

Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> "Grammar police" posts are most often hidden, and
> those who post them are in violation of the rules
> of RfM.

Grammar has nothing to do with it. It is the spelling of a name. Anyone with access to exmormon.org has access to Google and Wikipedia. Just getting a name correct is the least one can do.

And I don't know what you mean by "hidden" as I always use the same name.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:05PM

He doesn’t deserve his name spelled correctly anyway.Some names have variations of spellings depending on the language of the person, like Tevai said.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:07PM

Nothing compares to a Nazi death camp.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 28, 2018 06:52AM

Thank you Hockeyrat.

Hitler doesn't deserve any niceties or formalities. The more we can defame him posthumously, the better.

May he rot in H-E-L-L.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: February 28, 2018 07:29AM

History should be facts .Not spelling the name Hitler correctly does nothing to change the atrocities of Nazi Germany. people should learn about those horrors and do everything to avoid and fight any such movement now and in the future.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: February 28, 2018 08:38AM

Jimbo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> History should be facts .Not spelling the name
> Hitler correctly does nothing to change the
> atrocities of Nazi Germany. people should learn
> about those horrors and do everything to avoid
> and fight any such movement now and in the future.

I couldn't agree more. Yet there exist Holocaust deniers that would like us to believe it didn't happen as though it is part of some huge conspiracy theory created by the Rothschild's or the New World Order.

Those are the people who frighten me the most. They are the ones to fear - who would rewrite history at the expense of reason and justice for those who were murdered in innocent blood.

As for vengeance, it wasn't only the Jews, gypsies, gays, disabled, or blacks who were targeted. Of the six million Jews who perished, ten times that worldwide died as a result of one Holocaust. Hitler bit off way more than he could chew in terms of damage control.

If only we could learn from history the lessons not to repeat. Maybe it isn't too late to save the planet from another despot like him. Then I look at the state of this country and realize we're living deja vu all over again with DJT, a fascist ruler wannabe who studied Hitler's habits and ideology in the years leading up to his White House run. Not because he didn't want to be like him. It was from admiration he studied the despotic ruler.

We're living in a brave new world. It was only a century ago Hitler rose to power. We cannot allow the conditions that led up to the Holocaust happen again.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:12PM

Visitors Welcome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Grammar has nothing to do with it. It is the
> spelling of a name. Anyone with access to
> exmormon.org has access to Google and Wikipedia.
> Just getting a name correct is the least one can
> do.

Calling out someone, especially in a bullying or non-polite manner, for a misspelled word or name is against the rules of RfM, and the shorthand phrase we use for this kind of violation of the rules is "Grammar Police." You can either non-judgmentally, AND politely, offer the correct name or spelling, or you can let whatever-it-is be. It is important to remember that, although in your life accessing Google and Wikipedia may be easy, your experience and circumstances may not be as available (for any number of reasons) to others.


> And I don't know what you mean by "hidden" as I
> always use the same name.

"Hidden" means that the post is, effectively, "deleted" from the thread. Although the post is not actually deleted, and although it does continue to exist, following that Admin action it is hidden from anyone who does not have Admin privileges.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/27/2018 05:21PM by Tevai.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:37PM

Forum rules seem to get ignored or bent quite a bit recently. look at what is going on with political discussions that have nothing to do with Mormonism or religion. When it comes to spelling , grammar etc . We all make errors in spelling , grammar, punctuation so maybe we need to lighten up when it comes fellow poster who make mistakes . We all do. I try my best to spell correctly and use proper grammeer but heck nobody is perfect.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:11PM

Visitors Welcome Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I find it so uneducated when people will talk
> about someone and cannot even get his bloody name
> right. Is it so difficult to check such things
> before posting?
>
> Pardon my rant, but the number of spelling errors
> on this forum is getting worse by the day.

Umm it's "freaking" and "damn it", i can not tolerate your spelling errors any longer.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 04:30PM


Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:05PM

The mormons will get the leader they always wanted. The whole operation is ran like a nazi death camp anyways in my opinion. I definitely felt like a dead person being counted among the dead in that cult/corporation that is for d@mn sure. One of the reasons i had to leave was i was dead but still breathing but had no clue how to fix it except to leave and get real help and help me become a real living person again. Sounds strange but is accurate.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Jimbo ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:26PM

Does anyone here think what happened to Hitler will be basically the same as what happens to every person? That is no afterlife ,no punishment ,no reward ,no nothing at all except worm food if buried or ashes if cremated ? One of the reasons I think people,want there to be an afterlife is eternal justice It goes like this:.Hitler was a horrible human who murdered millions and if ther is no afterlife with punishment then that bothers me . Therefore God and eternal justice exist.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 05:28PM

I think a lot of us feel there is no afterlife. We are just discussing Mormon doctrine and the practice of necrodunking.

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: February 27, 2018 09:40PM

Some poor kid got re-dunked (in his name).

M@t

Options: ReplyQuote
Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: February 28, 2018 02:52AM

"We didn't do that, we checked"
"That does show that we did."
"We can't control our subordinates."
"Unpaid clergy volunteer no lawsuit subordinates, yes."

Options: ReplyQuote
Go to Topic: PreviousNext
Go to: Forum ListMessage ListNew TopicSearchLog In


Screen Name: 
Your Email (optional): 
Subject: 
Spam prevention:
Please, enter the code that you see below in the input field. This is for blocking bots that try to post this form automatically.
 **     **  **     **  **     **   ******    ******   
 ***   ***  ***   ***   **   **   **    **  **    **  
 **** ****  **** ****    ** **    **        **        
 ** *** **  ** *** **     ***     **        **   **** 
 **     **  **     **    ** **    **        **    **  
 **     **  **     **   **   **   **    **  **    **  
 **     **  **     **  **     **   ******    ******