Now chatting with: Nathan and Tyler
Thank you for your interest in chatting with a member of the Church. What would you like to talk about?

BILL 12:28 PM
Hi. I got my DNA tested and it said that I am 2.8% Neanderthal. As it turns out Eurasians are on average 3% Neanderthal. How does that fact fit in with Mormon world view that we all came from Adam and Eve if they lived 6,000 years ago, according to Mormon scriptures and Neanderthals died out 35,000 years ago?

Tyler 12:30 PM
Okay I'm just looking up something really quick

BILL 12:30 PM
Or was Eve a Neanderthal who lived 35,000 years ago, not 6,000 years ago?

Tyler 12:31 PM
Here is the church's official stance on this issue: The scriptures do not say how old the earth is, and the Church has taken no official stand on this question. Nor does the Church consider it to be a central issue for salvation.

BILL 12:34 PM
But we can do the geneology between Christ and Adam and figure it represents about 4,000 years, right? That's way off according to the DNA evidence

Tyler 12:34 PM
I'm not sure the exact answer, but the scriptures aren't really used to be scientific evidence or explanations. However, we do believe that Adam was a literal person, who was the first person to live.

BILL 12:36 PM
That means Adam and Eve couldn't have been the first humans if humans were around to mate with Neanderthals 30,000 years before the Bible narrative picks up.

Tyler 12:36 PM
Also, is Neanderthal a race?

BILL 12:37 PM
No. Neanderthals are a sub species of Homo Sapiens, who have existed for at least 500,000 years. Homo Sapiens Idaltu was the first human, The First Wise Man. So if there was a real Adam, that'd be him and he lived in Africa about 500,000 years ago.or about 100 times longer ago that Adam , according to the Bible.

Tyler 12:38 PM
So how long ago were your neanderthal ancestors alive?

BILL 12:39 PM
Your Neanderthal ancestors, if you're Eurasian, and mine, died off 35,000 years ago, after we replaced them in Europe, where they lived for 300,000 years before we showed up on the scene.
So do you reject the story told by our DNA in favor of the Bible story, which is about 1/100the of the story of human history?
How is accepting the reality of our origins, as proven by our DNA, not relevant to our Salvation? If Adam and Eve is just a story, then no need for a Savior, right? It's all just a myth.That has been debunked by DNA evidence, which is good enough to send somebody to the electric chair or prevent them from being executed. Why isn't it good enough to base our world view upon?

Tyler 12:48 PM
Okay. I've never heard of anyone who had Neanderthal in their DNA. But I think if you're trying to see how scientifically true the Bible is I think you're not understanding the purpose of the book. But if you don't believe that Adam and Eve existed that's fine. I still do.

BILL 12:52 PM
Do you believe Neanderthals existed? They were humans who died off 35,000 years ago. We've found their remains and their DNA matches ours. We've never found skeletons of Adam and Eve, even though they supposedly lived only 6,000 years ago, which is 3,000 years after Kennewick Man was wandering around in present day Washington State.

Tyler 12:54 PM
Bill, I think we're just are going to have to agree to disagree on this topic because I think we are just viewing this problem in two completely different ways.

BILL 12:56 PM
Yeah. My world view is real, based on real evidence. Your world view is based upon an impossible fairy tale that is completely irreconcilable with reality. Which is why I am no longer Mormon, even though 5 generations of my family before me were.

Tyler 12:57 PM
Okay. That's fine if you don't agree, but please don't be rude or condescending with your view.

The chat session has ended.

Its amazing to me that these kids who grew up with Google have "Never heard of anybody being part Neanderthal,

I will say, for the record, that your presentation to young Tyler was much, much more focused and precise.

He may have dismissed you in a fashion he thought you deserved, but the facts you presented to him are likely to stick. Most RMs can recall a conversation or two wherein we heard a Truth that we rejected because it was counter to church truth, only to recall it years later, sometimes to good effect.

Planring seeds

elderolddog Wrote:
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> I will say, for the record, that your presentation
> to young Tyler was much, much more focused and
> precise.
>
> He may have dismissed you in a fashion he thought
> you deserved, but the facts you presented to him
> are likely to stick. Most RMs can recall a
> conversation or two wherein we heard a Truth that
> we rejected because it was counter to church
> truth, only to recall it years later, sometimes to
> good effect.

Thanks EOD.
It's impossible for representatives of the Doomsday CULT of Joseph's Myth to be honest when they're defending pure unadulterated bullshit. Like Ayan Hirsi Ali said, "I cause CogDis, which will either drive them insane or drive them sane. I hope for the latter, which is all I can do after all."

With a finite lifespan, that is how you spend your time?

I think Mormonism is a lie.
Not just a benign white lie, but a big fat ugly lie that has really hurt people and still does.
I sacrificed 2yrs of my life selling a GD bald faced lie. Why? Because 5generations before me were lied to and accepted singing the praises of a pedophile because they managed to keep it all under wraps because of people like you sneeering at people like me for calling bullshitvon the delusional CULT they answer for. Give me access to the Prophet and I will ask him the same question.
But us peons were never deemed worthy enough to address the so called Prophet.
So this is how I address him and all the other delusional Mormons in my fa.iky.
Its a dangerous delusion in ny book. I enjoy debunking myths.
They made a whole show based upon that concept.
What a concept!
Occasionally giving up a half hour of my lunch break, taking missionaries up on their offer to give real answers to real questions is a hobby of mine.
One of many,
control much?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2018 10:43PM by koriwhore.

I agree with Tyler that you aren’t understanding the purpose of the Bible. It’s not meant to scientifically explain everything.

Couldn't a good case be made that the purpose of the bible is whatever the 'preacher' wants it to be?

Who among us would be shocked to learn that there are people who take the bible, at least the old testament, to be a literal history of a nomadic tribe of superior human beings?

rubi123 Wrote:
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> I agree with Tyler that you aren’t understanding
> the purpose of the Bible. It’s not meant to
> scientifically explain everything.
That's a cop out.
Genesis is the basis of the Bible.
If it is just an impossible fairy tale then toss it, along with the need for a Savior and the entire New Testament and the Old Testament, along wirh all the MORmON Scriptures predicated upon creationism. Theyre all irreconcilable with reality.
I much prefer the story told by our genes, encoded in our DNA, which proves we are much more closely related to Bonobos than they are to other apes. Where is that story reflected in any scriptures?
I'd say the oldest religions, Zen Buddhism, got it pretty much right.

You may prefer to just toss it, but others don’t feel that way.
Thankfully we can all choose for ourselves.

rubi123 Wrote:
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> You may prefer to just toss it, but others don’t
> feel that way.
> Thankfully we can all choose for ourselves.
Isnt maintaining erroneous beliefs, despite superior evidence to the contrary, the definition of delusional?

I was taught (by Jesuit priest teachers) that a large part of the Old Testament was handed down through generations through verbal morality lessons and should not be taken literally. There is also the Jerome Commentary that very frankly gives Biblical scholars' informed opinions on the origins of all the books of the Bible.

So there are many who don't taken Genesis literally, recognize the handed-down nature of the information, and still believe in the principles taught in the Bible, particularly those of the New Testament.

numbersRus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I was taught (by Jesuit priest teachers) that a
> large part of the Old Testament was handed down
> through generations through verbal morality
> lessons and should not be taken literally. There
> is also the Jerome Commentary that very frankly
> gives Biblical scholars' informed opinions on the
> origins of all the books of the Bible.
>
> So there are many who don't taken Genesis
> literally, recognize the handed-down nature of the
> information, and still believe in the principles
> taught in the Bible, particularly those of the New
> Testament.

So if that's true, that there really was no Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden 6,000 years ago, then the entire point of a Savior is completely pointless and unnecessary and whomever wrote the Bible was a liar.

Probably sooner than you think because humans cannot evolve their brains fast enough to avoid human destruction. Humans, as we are now, still think with their emotional brain more than with their rational brain. Thus, big problems that must be solved relatively soon but cannot be solved with prayer and fasting nor nuclear war. We need superior brain power. AI is likely what will evolve to survive us.

anybody Wrote:
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> n/t


What makes you assume they're not already bots?

Are those mormons that stupid or are they just pretending ?

Both haha! I guess they don't believe in Jurassic park either or ironman

The big, elephant in the room, problem with Mormonism is they still insist on saying they know their church is true. They do not look upon it as a faith tradition. It is a hard and fast fact that they cannot prove but keep trying to prove. They refuse to say they believe it is true and everyone has the right to believe as they choose. You must believe them because they are right and they KNOW they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Those missionaries need to be allowed to say, "I don't know the answer to your question. I believe in my religion completely on faith and do not worry too much about facts. If you would like to talk with an older and more experienced member of my faith, I can turn you over to Elder Old Man Who Knows It All or you can give me your number and I will call you back when I have done some research on the matter.

If they would just admit they don't know it all and they are relying solely on their warm and fuzzy feelings to bolster their belief, they could save everyone a lot of time and grief.

pooped Wrote:
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> The big, elephant in the room, problem with
> Mormonism is they still insist on saying they know
> their church is true.

Mormons are taught from a VERY young age to lie, by saying they know the Church is twoo when they're barely old enough to walk. Parents whisper it into their ears to repeat, like a trained parrot. So by the time they reach the age of accountability, they've already been saying, "I know the church is twoo" for 6 years of their life, which seems like an eternity to an 8yo. So does any 8yo ever say, "You know what Mom and Dad, your whole religion is bogus. There was no Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden 6,000 yrs ago. So what's the point of a Savior? Why take advice from a guy who was full of shit?"

No. They just go along to get along. It's a survival mechanism that binds tribes together. And it works as long as nobody in the tribe is calling bullshit.

> They do not look upon it as
> a faith tradition. It is a hard and fast fact that
> they cannot prove but keep trying to prove. They
> refuse to say they believe it is true and everyone
> has the right to believe as they choose. You must
> believe them because they are right and they KNOW
> they are right and everyone else is wrong.

Yep. Classic Group Think, Tribalism, Mob Mentality. There's strength in numbers. Just stick with the plan and you'll get to the promised land.

>
> Those missionaries need to be allowed to say, "I
> don't know the answer to your question. I believe
> in my religion completely on faith and do not
> worry too much about facts. If you would like to
> talk with an older and more experienced member of
> my faith, I can turn you over to Elder Old Man Who
> Knows It All or you can give me your number and I
> will call you back when I have done some research
> on the matter.

That's the rub. They're not allowed to really research anything, they don't have access to the internet, unless it's to approved Mormon sources. And even then they're clueless. They don't even read the material published by the church they represent, so they can feign ignorance.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iIdhV3839RA&t=278s
>
> If they would just admit they don't know it all
> and they are relying solely on their warm and
> fuzzy feelings to bolster their belief, they could
> save everyone a lot of time and grief.

You're right, that wouldn't be nearly as delusional, or dishonest.

The best part was at the end

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Tyler 12:57 PM
> Okay. That's fine if you don't agree, but please
> don't be rude or condescending with your view.


So typical of all faiths. They blabber nonsense and declare it the gospel truth. They get away with it for ages, shape entire civilizations to fit their hogwash, and when it is proven to be silly, they play the victim. "Respect my beliefs! It still works for me! I am offended!"

Tyler 12:57 PM
> Okay. That's fine if you don't agree, but please
> don't be rude or condescending with your view.

Good response would have been......

"Okay, that's fine if you don't agree too, but please don't be ignorant or obtuse with your view."

"Tyler 12:31 PM
Here is the church's official stance on this issue: The scriptures do not say how old the earth is, and the Church has taken no official stand on this question. Nor does the Church consider it to be a central issue for salvation."

So, what is the church's current interpretation of D&C 77?

Humberto Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Tyler 12:31 PM
> Here is the church's official stance on this
> issue: The scriptures do not say how old the earth
> is, and the Church has taken no official stand on
> this question. Nor does the Church consider it to
> be a central issue for salvation."
>
> So, what is the church's current interpretation of
> D&C 77?

6 Q. What are we to understand by the book which John saw, which was sealed on the back with seven seals?
A. We are to understand that it contains the revealed will, mysteries, and the works of God; the hidden things of his economy concerning this earth during the seven thousand years of its continuance, or its temporal existence.

7 Q. What are we to understand by the seven seals with which it was sealed?
A. We are to understand that the first seal contains the things of the first thousand years, and the second also of the second thousand years, and so on until the seventh.

Saying the church does not take a position on the age of the Earth is admission that "the Word of God" is completely irreconcilable with reality, aka, delusional. .

The D&C was speaking as a novel?

Knowing that Adam is real is a central issue for salvation. No Adam, no fall, no need for a savior. I’m so sick of hearing the lame excuse that something isn’t important to my salvation.

And yes, the scriptures do say how old the earth is. That is an outright lie!

"we're just going to have to agree to disagree"

Lies , lies and more lies told by the cult and their minions.

HAHAHA...loud laughter...at least the old profits before the manifesto were bold enough to say what they believed right up till the bus tires hit them...JofD is right full of off the wall hyperbole...that's really where much of belief in moism comes from...today the rock and the hard place get tighter and leaders prefer to speak in warm fuzzies and placate with little stories or remain mum on any topic but widows or tithing or blind dumb obedience...seems no one will make a stand on anything...cuz nothing to stand for so fall for anything

Thanks for the post, kori. It's interesting to see how the lies have changed. Lying is the only Mormon consistency I've seen.

Maybe Neanderthals are Sasquaches and Denisovans are Yetis.
So Europeans got here because some African fucked a Sasquach and Asians are the result of the first African to fuck a Yeti.
Or vice versa.

Once again this poor kid has been indoctrinated to do the job the higher ups do not want to be stuck doing....you know, actually sharing the gospel they "say" they love so much with others.

Instead, they have talked all the Mormon guinea pigs into believing that the kids and those who are older are the ones that should be given "the honor".

The MormonCultOrg is one big JosephConJob that has only gotten bigger and uglier in its ability to con.