Please forgive me if I am posting this in the wrong place. I don't know much if anything about chat rooms. I just need help. My so is turning 12 toward the end of this month and I do not want him ordained to the mormon priesthood. Does anyone know how I can get this stopped? Is there anything legal I can stand behind? Please help me.

Does you ex know you don't want him to be ordained? Have you

told him?

Does your son want to be ordained? Other than taking your son

away for the day so his father can't take him to have it done

I don't think there is anything you can do to stop him.

You could see if you can get an appointment with a Lawyer and

find out your rights and go from there.

If you can't stop this from happening, it's all meaningless

anyway. Good luck.

The only thought that comes to my mind is your divorce 'settlement', the agreement you and the ex committed yourselves to, to the court.

Often times such a custody agreement can spell out very detailed instructions for anticipated events, and how they are to be handled. One of the more common ones between TBMs and Exmos is that the children will not be baptized until they reach their age of majority.

But the odds are that you and your Ex divorced after your son was dunked. And apparently you did not anticipate your feelings regarding the bestowal of the priesthood.

If it is worth it to you, as in the money it will take for a lawyer to handle a request to the court that your ex be enjoined from ordaining your son, that's probably your best bet. But you wouldn't stand a chance if he has sole custody.

But here's another thing: what's your son's attitude toward the impending event? If you're in Utah County, all his mormon friends are passing the sacrament and he'll just be sitting there...

What's his attitude about the church? Does he like going to church? Would he tell his dad he doesn't want to be ordained?

I don't know how much cognizance the court would take of his 12 year old opinion on this issue? But for sure, if he wants to be ordained, you have a hard row to hoe.

Finally, we're exmos. We don't think the ordination has any meaning...

hahahahaha! we were sitting next to each other and neither of us knew the other was responding to this post! I think we're compatible!!!

It's Karma Baby.... its all Karma.

This is tough. He's 12, so it matters to him what his friends will think about him, if he doesn't get ordained. I'd still talk about it with him. Maybe this will start a good conversation about morg. Maybe he has questions.

And make sure when you have him on Sundays, you do something uber fun with him. Something that will make him hate Sundays at church.

I agree. Don't look at this as stopping something. Look at this as starting something. The first thing someone does when you tell them they can't have something is put up walls and form resentment. Talk to him about it all instead like he's an adult and start exchanging thoughts, facts, and information on the church.

I will never forget when my mother first started talking to me like an adult. I was about 14. Suddenly we were having conversations rather than "being told something." I expressed opinions and I listened and exchanged information with her. It opened me up rather than keep me in adolescent embryo.

This is the Information Age and that includes more than what you can find on google or pressing buttons with your phone. The best information is you showing your son who you really are and let him know he can do the same.

Maybe.

The reality is unless you plan to isolate your son from his father, there is nothing you can do to stop an ordination.

It can be done anywhere at anytime once it is approved.

Your ex could perform the ordination in his living room on a monday night as part of family home evening, on a friday night at a camp out, on a thursday morning during a visit to grand parents etc.

The legal argument could be made that the shunning, shame and restrictions your son would face at church would be detrimental to his well being.

The duties of a mormon deacon are limited. Handing out bread and water, gathering fast offerings and occasionally a temple trip for baptisms of the dead.

I'd suggest you just be a supportive mother, keep in his good graces and realize you have 6 years to work on him.

Heartless Wrote:
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> I'd suggest you just be a supportive mother, keep
> in his good graces and realize you have 6 years to
> work on him.

Uh, what is different from the ex-husband and the church then? Encouraging mom to manipulate son?

Gross.

OP, do not 'work on him.' Kids aren't stupid. They know when a parent has an agenda, whatever it is.

Being 12 is tough for most kids. Love, not being worked on, is best for a healthy mind and spirit. Some people cannot let go of what they want others to do, sadly. Don't be one of them.

And, OP, get used to not having control. Thems are the breaks in divorce. If you didn't get it in writing in the divorce decree/custody consent order/what have you, then this is just one of many battles you have to let go of.

Is the father a believing mormon and does he have joint custody? I'd suggest you go to the bishop and bring a letter hinting that you'll sue if this church rite takes place. Tell him you're also a parent and you won't be trampled underfoot. Remind him that a minor child is involved and until age 18 you have every right to make determinations about his religious participation.

Good luck. I hope this works out for you.

I wouldn't threaten to sue. Its a lengthy and expensive proposition and will just put the child in the middle. A lot can happen from 12-18, take the high road. Most of us on the blog have been through custody issues, it's not fun.

Hinting that a law suit is a possibility is a far cry from actually hiring a lawyer and going to court.

Often, a slight hint is all that's necessary for a weak-kneed mormon.

Cheryl Wrote:
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> Hinting that a law suit is a possibility is a far
> cry from actually hiring a lawyer and going to
> court.
>
> Often, a slight hint is all that's necessary for a
> weak-kneed mormon.

Horrible advice. Telling her to threaten something she cannot follow through with would destroy her credibility.

Further, the betrayal to her son could never be justified by some sick, ‘Gotcha!’ LIE. There goes the trust.

OP, do not be blinded as some are who sacrifice children for their ex Mo agenda. Some leave Mormons but never stop the games nor lies. They will justify saying they are the ones who truly love and care. Their fruit is bad.

This advice has worked for me a time or two, so I will pass it on in case it can help others.

I see nothing wrong with saying you may be considering consulting a lawyer about legal action, if true.

Gets the thought out there, whether or not you choose to follow through.

Unfortunately, almost all children with divorced parents have been mentioned in lawsuits. That's a sad part of life these days. Children are resilient and they survive if they have a loving supportive parent. Mentioning the word lawyer or lawsuit sometimes helps move an issue to fruition. It's up to those involved to try to determine if this is a helpful idea. It isn't up to strangers on the internet.

About children making their own lifelong decisions? Their ideas and feelings are very important but adults must shoulder that responsibility in the end.

Does the LDS Church require that both parents consent for getting ordained? Or does that just apply to baptisms? If it applies to getting ordained as well, I'd contact the bishop and let him know you aren't on board.

There may be loosely written rules in a handbook somewhere, but that doesn't mean bishops must follow it to the letter.

Most of them tend to go with one TBM parent giving the okay, and they ignore the non-believing parent unless he or she speaks out strongly and causes a stir.

Having been through this scenario with my sons, I will offer my two cents. I ended up asking my sons what they wanted to do, one went ahead and was ordained the other opted not to be ordained. They are both happily out of the church for years.

1. The most important thing in the long run is the relationship between you and your son.

2.This is a meaningless and silly ceremony dreamed up by a man-made religion.

3. It may be important to your son to be ordained. Stopping the ordination or putting up a fight will cause friction in your relationship with your son if the ordination is something he wants.

4. If the ordination proceeds, be present in any interview that your son is subject to by the Morg machine.

5.When your son is a little older (14-15) explain your stance and the church and the reasons why the evidence dictates your beliefs about the Morg.

+111111111111111111111111111111

Grendel's advice worked for me and my sons, too.

1. The most important thing in the long run is the relationship between you and your son.

2.This is a meaningless and silly ceremony dreamed up by a man-made religion.

For too long, the Mormon church was threatening to me, and it had too much power over me. What worked best with my sons was to make religion NOT IMPORTANT. My wise great-grandfather used to say, "Religion should not be an issue in a relationship." Don't give Mormonism any power over you or your family.

Treat the "ordination" as you would an initiation into a secret boy's fraternity. It's silly.

I didn't go my first child's ordination, because I didn't support that. I treated it as if it were nothing but weird mumbo-jumbo to keep the TBM in-laws from pestering everyone. I didn't talk about it (especially, no negative comments) or ask how it went, or anything. I made a proper fuss about the child's 12th birthday, and he felt loved. My second son was not ordained. All of my children are out of the cult, and are happy and successful.

What's keeping someone from making up an anti-ordination ritual, or a blessing for a child to be autonomous? To know the Truth? For example, couldn't a parent have the 12-year-old, or even the 8-year-old baptism-candidate, read certain Mormon church-approved materials? Like catechism, a parent could teach this information as lessons to the child. Then, the parent could give a "parent's blessing" upon the head of the child, asking "God" to bless the child with the power of discernment, the ability to follow his own heart, to stop and think before they obey, to put family first, or anything else the parent wishes for the child. This would have just as much "authority" and manipulative power of persuasion (using the name of God) as the cookie-cutter made-up Mormon blessing. A parent could do this in private, in addition to the ordination or baptism.

A parent could write all these "wishes for the child" in a birthday card, and it would be there, in writing, always, as a guide to follow (leading out of blind cult obedience.)

Long-winded as I am, I did all this through talking to my children. (Remember, in talking to your kids, you must LISTEN 75% of the time. It's in the listening part, that your kids will express their OWN answers. Worked for us!)

I realize that if one parent is TBM, the other can't simply disallow all mormon participation, but neither must they give up all of their parental influence.

Mormonism poisons children against a non-believing parent. It teaches the child not to respect that parent as much as kiddies whose parents are TBMs. Mormonism tells the child to try to force the parent to be a mormon, to attend, volunteer, and pay tithes, and to feel ashamed if they can't pull this off.

Mormonism insists that the boy child become a missionary and that all children marry in the temple and that it's good to shun non-believing parents who are not good enough to earn a TR.

These are just a few reasons why the mormon church and why a TBM parent should not have a totally free hand in child rearing.

Mormonism is a cult. It teaches members to be homophobic, racist, and sexist. It teaches girls that they must blindly uphold priesthood guys to their own detriment.

Please, don't bend to mormon pressure and say that baptism, priesthood rites and attendance are just meaningless activities.

Many mormons and exmormons I know were converted as young teens. They craved acceptance and an easy circle of ready friends. This happens with no prior experience. Those kids who have participated since birth are at a higher risk of being caught up in it than these young converts.

Anyone who has a child in mormonism needs to do what they can to counter and limit the brainwashing. Writing it off as meaningless doesn't make it so.

If you became a lesbian would that stop it? Or is that just for baptism that the kids have to wait to 18 and then denounce their gay parent?

Interesting and amusing solution! Points for original thinking, but points taken away for not thinking it through....

I am getting flashbacks when i got ordained. If there is a controlling father involved you are pretty much f#cked.

I believe it is a question not of physical custody, but of legal custody. Read your divorce agreement. It will discuss who has legal custody of your son. If legal custody is shared, then both you and your ex would need to sign off on any religious decisions. But from reports, Mormon church authorities often disregard these agreements anyway.

I agree with those who say, in essence, don't try to win the battle at the cost of losing the war. Your most important relationship is with your son. This is a "hearts and minds" quest that will take time and a gentle, but sustained effort.

Over time, even something as ephemeral as the wind can carve stone. Be that gentle but persistent influence.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I believe it is a question not of physical
> custody, but of legal custody. Read your divorce
> agreement. It will discuss who has legal custody
> of your son. If legal custody is shared, then both
> you and your ex would need to sign off on any
> religious decisions. But from reports, Mormon
> church authorities often disregard these
> agreements anyway.
>
> I agree with those who say, in essence, don't try
> to win the battle at the cost of losing the war.
> Your most important relationship is with your son.
> This is a "hearts and minds" quest that will take
> time and a gentle, but sustained effort.
>
> Over time, even something as ephemeral as the wind
> can carve stone. Be that gentle but persistent
> influence.

I've had to read custody orders to determine who had the legal right to authorize medical treatment when parents are not together. On the form that is used in my jurisdiction, the default mode is a box, next to which are printed words saying something to the effect that whatever the child's religion was at the time of the initial filing for divorce (or the initial date of filing for custody custody if the parents were never married) shall remain the child's religion unless both parents agree otherwise, it is decided otherwise in a court of law, or the child reaches the age of majority and chooses not to follow his or her original religion. Sometimes that box is not checked. The alternate box is checked in that case, and the rationale is printed or typed on the blank lines next to the other box.

That's just in my jurisdiction, though. Others may be different. In an only marginally related note, if a child is a member of a church that disallows blood transfusions, either parent who has legal custody (in cases of joint legal custody) may authorize a transfusion for the child even if the child is considered to be a practicing member of the church that disallows transfusions.

Your son is of legal age therefore if he chooses to be ordained, for any reason, there is nothing that I can see that you can legally do to stop it. sorry

MY BAD I THOUGHT I READ 21 NOT 12 SORRY
I AM WITH THE MOM



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/09/2018 01:00PM by thedesertrat1.

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your son is of legal age therefore if he chooses
> to be ordained, for any reason, there is nothing
> that I can see that you can legally do to stop it.
> sorry

Sanest post of the entire thread.

Since when is 12 legal? Am I missing something?

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Your son is of legal age therefore if he chooses
> to be ordained, for any reason, there is nothing
> that I can see that you can legally do to stop it.
> sorry

In what jurisdiction is twelve considered to be of legal age?

MY BAD I THOUGHT SHE SAID 21 NOT 12 i AM WITH THE MOM

thedesertrat1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MY BAD I THOUGHT SHE SAID 21 NOT 12 i AM WITH THE
> MOM

Desert rat, we all transpose numbers and letters from time to time. It's no big deal. Thanks for explaining, as I didn't understand from where you were coming before you explained.

OP needs to check in her custody consent order, as has been mentioned many times. Hopefully Mama Tiger will return.

https://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/child-custody-religion-29887.html

"In some cases, the courts will take the wishes of the child into account. In In re Marriage of Boldt, 344 Or. 1 (2008), the state supreme court sent a case back down to the trial court with instructions that the trial judge take evidence about the opinions of a twelve-year-old boy about whether he should be circumcised, an issue on which his parents disagreed for religious reasons. Generally, courts will consider the views of children over 12 on issues of religion as well as issues of custody or visitation generally."

The kid is going to be asked what he wants to do. He isn't being harmed and that will hurt Mama Tiger's cause, if she goes to court.

***The custody consent order reigns AS IS unless they augment it.***

She can try but as has been stated many times in this thread, she is likely to be unsuccessful in attempts to prevent her son's ordination.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2018 09:17PM by carameldreams.

Do you feel the harm is too great to let him make that decision on his own? You defiantly should talk to him about how you feel about it.

Example from me is that at the time it was a great experience, but as I reflect over time, the more I regret having been associated with it.