Hello,

I am an active and devout Mormon and I am posting the following question sincerely and out of curiosity:

What would you say was the main issue or your main reason for leaving the LDS church?

I realize that you may well have more than one answer to that question — and feel free (obviously) to list them if you want — but I am primarily interested in what you would place at the top of the list.

Again, this is a sincere question and it is not my intent or desire to create contention or promote ill will. Rather, I am hopeful that it will prompt friendly and constructive responses.

Thanks

I have many reasons, but it ultimately comes down to one of them. did my research and found out it wasn't true. And I certainly used reputable sources. I went to BYU and that hurt things even more. I saw how women and minorities were treated. I saw how the church emotionally drained me. But really...one reason. The church isn't true. And if you ask "why do you say that?" I have a long list that Mormons can't answer without stretching their answers - I'm referring to "issues" with e.g. The book of Abraham, JS "first" vision, temple ordinances, mark Hoffman, or kinder hook plates...the list goes on.

So no, porn or being offended weren't my reasons, even tho that's probably what people say.

I did deep research, spread out over about a year. I wanted to be careful and not make a mistake about whether Mormonism is true. After study and prayer, I felt directed to leave. I have been out for three years, and have no desire at all to go back. It's over with forever, after 40 years.

Jesus christ.

Cpete Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Jesus christ.


Same for me, since the Mormon church barely focused on him, although they claim to be "Christian." For me, the biggest example of that was Easter when the resurrection was barely mentioned, and when spring conference falls on that weekend, they have conference instead of moving it to another weekend. In every other church, Easter is the most important day in the calendar, as the entire service is all about the risen Christ. Protestants have the empty cross to symbolize that Christ rose from the dead. Also, Christ had to be crucified in order to atone for humanity's sins.

Another issue for me is that the Book of Mormon simply is not true at all, but fan fiction for the Bible. There's too much evidence through DNA and other sources that show that what the story claims is false.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2018 10:41AM by doyle18.

Mormonism is bunk( true dat) but a person who probably never even existed somehow suspended the laws of nature and poof ! Came alive again and at the same time taking upon the entire worlds "sins" that is unless you don't buy into his fantastic story then of course you are doomed in some very hot tormenting place forever and ever .How can a person see the made up BOM and the rest and still believe this ?

Joseph Smith did not receive heavenly messengers, did not speak face to face with Jesus and God, the Book of Mormon is a crude forgery, as is the Book of Abraham. Peter James and John did not restore the priesthood. Jospeh Smith was a lying, dishonest, sexual predator. THe so called prophets who came after him have no call from god, priesthood or power of discernment. They are all frauds.

are clearly and completely fictional.

The LDS church has admitted that the book of abraham doesn't match the papyri from which it was supposedly translated, and
it has in essence disavowed the book of mormon by disavowing all racist teachings in it's own past.

If these two books are fiction, the church is just another church.

It isn't God's "truest" church.

Despite this, I may have stayed, but the problem is that in the LDS church... the idea that it's right and has the answers is so ingrained, no one is allowed to ask serious questions about it's truth claims.

If you admit your testimony in the truth of the church is weak (not your faith in Christ necessarily), you are treated as second class.

There isn't any room for the honest doubter as a result.

No room for me and my children.

Because 'faith' has never worked for me. My brain is too logical to work that way; I cannot accept "feelings" as an indicator of truth because I know how chaotic my emotions can be. And despite more than a decade of serious effort, I never once felt anything even remotely "spiritual," let alone "The Spirit." I studied my scriptures, prayed, fasted, attended church, payed a full tithe, everything -- and yet I never got the promised "witness of truth." And without some kind of personal experience I could not stick with it.

Leaving religion behind altogether was the best thing I ever did. It lifted so much of the anxiety and depression that used to weigh me down. It's all a massive scam, and it saddens me that so many people still cling to it blindly.

Found out through research that the LDS Church is an obvious fraud. Very easy nowadays with the internet directly, or to purchase books online.

Besides that, being in the LDS Church is like having a second, unpaid job, and boring as hell to boot.

It is controlling and oppressive. If you don't fit the preferred mormon one size fits all mold, there is no place for you.

Its doctrine falls apart under the slightest scrutiny and logical reasoning. For that reason, independent thought is discouraged, and open skepticism is quickly shut down.

It demands excessive time, effort and money, and gives nothing back. Individuals are worked to exhaustion and are still guilted for not doing more.

Its culture is harsh, judgmental, and prone to gossip. Its obsession with sex and "modesty" results in a membership that is kept in a perpetual state of childhood, unable to decide for themselves.

It literally sells godhood for money (no exaltation without the temple, no temple without tithing). Therefore, IT SELLS SIGNS AND TOKENS FOR MONEY, exactly what those going through the temple are expressly told NOT to do.

It's boring as all hell. The correlated meetings are the same garbage repeated ad infinitum. Nothing new or interesting is ever presented. It's the very definition of uninspired.

Testimonies are worthless. Both Packer and Oaks have declared that "a testimony is to be found in the bearing of it." In other words, bear your testimony even if you don't have one. This is also known as "bearing false witness" and violates one of the Ten Commandments. That two so-called apostles would encourage this kind of behavior fairly demonstrates that they are in no way representatives of any just or decent god.

Most of us could write books about this. If you've lurked for any length of time, you would already know the damage the cult can inflict.

Nailed it!

I gave it forty years serving in various ward and stake positions including bishopric. Finally saw it for the impossibility it was:

Social:
1. Very stigmatizing social structure. Often saw poor=unworthy mindset.
2. “Utah Mormons” act differently ostracizing those that are not LDS including their children. This even happened when Utah folk moved to my part of the country. The anecdotal stories of non-LDS friends moving to the Wasatch Range is even more disturbing.

BOM
1. Makes no sense that a group of people so intent on their history, calling so to speak as God’s People and throughout history carefully documenting their lineage would record hundreds of years of history in a language no one has heard of or seen.
2. Entire word for word Isaiah chapters- originally written after the Babylonian Captivity- and therefore not available to be included on the Old World plates are in the BOM. Joseph and Ivef didn’t think through that one.
3. The voyage-vessels, logistics, food, water and duration of the Nephites was an impossibility. Jewish submarines- what a joke.
4. Myriad of animals, implements, foods mentioned in BOM did not exist in the New World. And I have read every one of Nibley’s books, Christiansen’s Since Cumorah and recent compilation book called Mormon Codex. Oliver and Joseph made major sssumptions that were faulty.
5. What we know about migrations, archeology, population genetics and the customs of the native Americans in both the north and the south have NO correlation with BOM.
6. Throw in DNA if you want
7. Where are the plates now?
8. Much of the theology there in was debated discussed in Smith’s region.
9. Over 40% of the BOM was plagiarized almost word for word from other sources.

Can go on and on

First Vision:

The discrepancies are inexplicable.

BOA:

Quite the product of a fertile religious mind. Why would Abraham write on papyrus while some obscure Jew named Laban write on metal?

D&C

The Joseph Smith Papers may bring out more “evolving” revelations. Recent posts here on the Fifth Lecture on the Godhead and it’s inconsistencies bear out what was happening in Joseph’s life and surroundings.

Plural Marriage was a major mistake and cannot be supported in even early Book of Commandments writings or in the BOM.

For your interest I suggest you read the CES letter as a starting point and then read the church essays on various topics. Return and report. My finger is tired.

Gatorman

Mormonism has no integrity.

It is a cult that was built on lies thought up by certain people in order to gain money, prestige and power over other people. Those who lead the cult now, like the past leaders, are in it to gain the same rewards. They tell the members they alone can lead them to God and that only by obeying the rules which they dish out telling members what is Aokay to read, think, say and do, will these members reach the prize...the celestial kingdom.

Those who lead the MormonCult do not practice nor care about the golden rule in the least. And this is why........

....Members are subject to a steady diet of lies, fear, guilt and shame by the leaders and the organization they sit over. These leaders have shown OVER AND OVER they absolutely DO NOT CARE and will not change as the record speaks for itself that countless members have told these leaders OVER AND OVER of their deep hurt from all the lies, fear, guilt, and shame they have been made to endure.

These are the reasons I resigned from the MormonCult.

It mostly stems from the fact that I never received a testimony. I spent the first 40 years of my life trying to do all the right things: active in church, full tithe payer, regular temple attendance, reading scriptures, daily prayer, etc. Not once, ever, did I receive any sort of testimony. At one point I just sort of accepted the fact that God did not care about me enough to give me the same sort of confirmation that he seemed to so willingly give others.

Over about a five year period, I began to be exposed more to science and reasoning. More people in my life began to go public with their atheism. I did not want to be a non-believer, but it all began to make a lot of sense to me.

Around the same time the church began its horrific involvement in the Prop 8 movement. It came across to me as unnecessarily mean towards a group of people who have been routinely been forced to live on the fringes of society. I have some LGBTQ friends and saw the church involvement in Prop 8 as mean and hate filled.

Prop 8 was what began to crack the shelf for me. Despite the lack of testimony and the seeds of atheism, I could at least say that I liked the church. But with the involvement in prop 8, there were now things I could point to in my lifetime where I could say that I really did not like the church. Polygamy was long before my time, and the racist Priesthood policy changed when I was small, so to me it was well in the past despite its embarrassing consequences.

Over the last few years I have begun to research more about church history. Although the church has begun to acknowledge some of its history on one hand, on the other it is still perpetuating the long held myths. For example the church admits in its essays that Joseph Smith stuck his face in a hat to read things off a rock in order to "translate" the Book of Mormon, but in my daughters seminary manual they still have pictures of Smith sitting at a desk with gold pates. There are plenty of pictures of Joseph with his face buried in a hat, why can't they publish those pictures?

But that is just one thing. The multiple and differing accounts of the first vision, the treasure seeking, the obvious plagiarism of the Book of Mormon from multiple sources, the Book of Abraham fiasco, the Kinderhook Plates, Joseph Smith's sexual misadventures, the church racism, the constantly changing doctrine, the changes in the Book of Mormon, the Mark Hoffman stuff, the shopping mall, etc. For someone who has never received a testimony, and has a hard time believing in the existence of God at all, those are just too many things to toss aside. The simplest answer is that Joseph Smith was not a prophet and the church is a fraud, just like other religions, or God has made an awful lot of mistakes and changed his mind constantly in the past 190+ years.

Main Reason - the Book of Mormon is not true.

https://www.exmormon.org/d6/drupal/Letter-to-Elder-Holland-Book-of-Mormon

I spent months researching this from the standpoint of a devout Mormon. Secondary - Book of Abraham is not true, Church is not true. History of Joseph Smith, genuine history rather than sanitised untrue version.

The Book of Mormon is not real.

My inner sense of God didn't fit the Mormon God. When I allowed myself to finally admit what I really believed, it was that it was just another (man-made) church full of nice people. I was then free to leave after decades of turmoil.

The source of the turmoil? Trying to reconcile my deep inner notion of a loving God with then current Mormon racial exclusions and punitive gender teachings. (Why would a loving God reward faithful female followers with being part of an eternal harem? What kind of heaven is this?) If I wouldn't do this to my female children, what kind of god would?

I felt that Jesus wouldn't teach any of this. The loving God I imagined in my innermost being didn't line up with the Mormon god, so in the moment this became so clear to me, I was free to go. I had to leave in order to grow spiritually.

With the current treatment of gays and now their their children, I wonder if Mormons have lost the ability to hear their personal conscience? They seem to heed an institutional conscience that has been indoctrinated into them. I get it, I was once there. But at some point you would think they would wake up.

I left in the 1970s. The main reason was the racist policies and I found it to be simply very boring . I found the BOM to be very racist in nature . According to the BOM a there is nothing better than being white. White and Delightsome. White this and white that.The BOM to me is obviously made up nonsense and plagiarized from the King James Bible

Quite simply: it failed me.

Gatorman Part II

PH: I was in the church pre-1978 and serving. Recall vividly the announcement concerning blacks and PH. In my southern ward it was met with odd mixture of emotions. If you read the church essay on this subject it is semi-apologetic. “ We’re sorry-sort of”

Now I recall multiple statements that God would never allow a prophet to lead the church astray. In this case that is what he did. In fact if this doctrine-and that is what it was as that is how it was taught in the 70’s-was incorrect God allowed multiple prophets to lead the church astray.

There is no biblical evidence that the PH was ever existent among the apostles. Hence appearing to Oliver and Joseph was a bogus move to shore up support during difficult times.

JST:
It has always bothered me that verses that Joseph Smith “revised” in the NT never made it into the BOM NT verses. That is very odd and clearly sets up a problem for the church.

Temples:
The more you deeply explore the temple rites and how they have CHANGED you realize where they came from. They certainly aren’t biblical. Study just baptism for the dead as a topic. How that phrase got into the NT. What was Paul actually referring to? It certainly doesn’t support current LDS practice. This subject is a whole PhD thesis. I have been through multiple temples both pre 1990 changes and post.

You’ve got lots to study. Return and report

Gatorman

Main reason? Myself; I suppose I just wasn't worthy enough.

The “church” is patently dishonest.

I am a nevermo (never a Mormon,) but I have been an active member of this board for more than a decade and would like to comment on your inquiry.

Most exmos leave the church over historical issues. The truth claims of the church can not stand up to scrutiny. It's as simple as that. And it's not any one historical issue but a plethora of them. There are many other reasons as you can see from the posts above. But the historical issues form the main reason for most.

I think it's important for you to know that most of the people on this board were not casual members. We have former bishops, stake presidents, RSPs, EQPs, HPs, etc. We have people whose families have been members for five or more generations, who graduated from seminary, who attended or graduated from BYU, who spent decades in the church, who raised their families in the church.

Look around you on any given Sunday in your ward house. Look at the people on the stand. Look at the people in leadership positions. Look at some of the most staunch, faithful people in the chapel. Those are the kind of people who are now on this board. As a matter of fact, some of the people who you see right in front of you on any given Sunday are active posters here and on other exmo sites. They are still attending for family, social, or business reasons. But they no longer believe.

The next time you are asked in Gospel Doctrine class, or in priesthood, why do people leave the church, will you be brave enough to state the truth? That people leave over historical issues? Or will you accept and nod your head when the same tired insults are regurgitated: They sinned. They are lazy. They were offended.

That's name-calling. Do you know which churches engage in name-calling of so-called "apostates"? Cults.

No one ever engaged in name-calling when I left the Catholic church. Do you know what the most common reaction is among believing Catholics? "I understand." Catholics know their church isn't perfect and that there are valid reasons why people might leave. They don't (as a group) think less of people who leave. They don't engage in name-calling. They don't call ex-Catholics "apostates." They don't shun family members, neighbors, or business associates as the Mormons so often do. Neither do the moderate-to-liberal mainstream Protestant churches which I've attended over the years.

So why does the Mormon church engage in name-calling? Go ahead and ask yourself that question.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2018 09:26AM by summer.

This is solid granite, these words.

This is why I love the Never-Mo presence on this board.

Thank you, Summer.
You frequently here Mormons talk about "anti-Mormon" this or that. What they don't see is how "anti" that they can become towards those who leave, and like you said, it's often times historical issues.

Most leave because their conscience just can't take staying any more.

Following the dictates of their conscience is what the 11th (?) Article of Faith is all about.

Unfortunately, many Mormons don't allow that of others who don't think like they do.

when someone who is active and believing lds comes here. We get asked this question SO MANY TIMES. You aren't the first by far. As a devout mormon, I never would have been on this page for anything, so I always find it odd when we find yet another person showing up.

Gay issues. Gay/straight marriage. I had to deal with lds leaders over gay issues. I ended up marrying the person who I was trying to help. They had no answers for him or I that were even reasonable. They had THE WRONG ANSWERS. I even got a horrible letter from Boyd Packer about the issues. The worst letter I've ever received in my life. I burned it as it had a dark feeling with it for all the time I kept it. I sure wish I had it now. One of the reasons we got married was to get the voyeuristic leaders out of our lives.

I had been a deeply devout mormon virgin. I "saved" myself for marriage. They asked me to experiment with my boyfriend. I had never even French kissed. The bishop told my boyfriend to French kiss me and not tell me beforehand. He told me beforehand. He had enough respect for me to let me know. My nonmormon boyfriends never tried to French kiss me because they knew what type of girl I was. I only dated nonmormons because mormons didn't like me. I was too independent and free thinking I guess.

I left the lds church kicking and screaming. My parents argued over whose fault it was I left as I was the child they never worried about. I always did the right thing. So when I left, they listened. Even my mother said to me "You can be spiritual without being any religion." My parents were very disturbed by what happened to me and they didn't even know the whole story. My dad would have been FURIOUS had he known. When he found out my ex is gay, he was shocked that I would marry him. He thought I was smarter than that. I told him the leaders said I was supposed to save him and my dad was VERY ANGRY to say the least. He told me gays are born that way.

My marriage failed of course, as it should have. I will always and forever defend my "husband's" right to be gay and live his life accordingly. I support him 100%. What we have all been through is NOT NECESSARY. Then they decided my children were second-class citizens a few years ago. I've been out for over 20 years, going on 30. My life has gone along very well since I lost my beliefs in mormonism. It was a MESS while I was devout mormon.

cl2notloggedin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> when someone who is active and believing lds comes
> here. We get asked this question SO MANY TIMES.
> You aren't the first by far. As a devout mormon, I
> never would have been on this page for anything,
> so I always find it odd when we find yet another
> person showing up.
>
> Gay issues. Gay/straight marriage. I had to deal
> with lds leaders over gay issues. I ended up
> marrying the person who I was trying to help. They
> had no answers for him or I that were even
> reasonable. They had THE WRONG ANSWERS. I even got
> a horrible letter from Boyd Packer about the
> issues. The worst letter I've ever received in my
> life. I burned it as it had a dark feeling with it
> for all the time I kept it. I sure wish I had it
> now. One of the reasons we got married was to get
> the voyeuristic leaders out of our lives.
>
> I had been a deeply devout mormon virgin. I
> "saved" myself for marriage. They asked me to
> experiment with my boyfriend. I had never even
> French kissed. The bishop told my boyfriend to
> French kiss me and not tell me beforehand. He told
> me beforehand. He had enough respect for me to let
> me know. My nonmormon boyfriends never tried to
> French kiss me because they knew what type of girl
> I was. I only dated nonmormons because mormons
> didn't like me. I was too independent and free
> thinking I guess.
>
> I left the lds church kicking and screaming. My
> parents argued over whose fault it was I left as I
> was the child they never worried about. I always
> did the right thing. So when I left, they
> listened. Even my mother said to me "You can be
> spiritual without being any religion." My parents
> were very disturbed by what happened to me and
> they didn't even know the whole story. My dad
> would have been FURIOUS had he known. When he
> found out my ex is gay, he was shocked that I
> would marry him. He thought I was smarter than
> that. I told him the leaders said I was supposed
> to save him and my dad was VERY ANGRY to say the
> least. He told me gays are born that way.
>
> My marriage failed of course, as it should have. I
> will always and forever defend my "husband's"
> right to be gay and live his life accordingly. I
> support him 100%. What we have all been through is
> NOT NECESSARY. Then they decided my children were
> second-class citizens a few years ago. I've been
> out for over 20 years, going on 30. My life has
> gone along very well since I lost my beliefs in
> mormonism. It was a MESS while I was devout
> mormon.

UGH! Ecclesial abuse. I just can't stand it!
Cl2, I don't know if you have ever shared these details before, but my stomach just turned for you.

And for your ex-husband.

Most of us here could write pages about why we left and I support all that has been said above.

I would add - the blatant dishonesty of the unsigned "Gospel Topic Essays" published by the church . Try balancing those essays against documented historical facts.
The essays appear to be an effort to convince members that "the church dealt with that" so the members don't need to think.

Mormons play fast and loose with the word "true." In this Information Age when the Book of Mormon, the Book of Abraham, have been exposed as complete frauds and Joseph and Brigham's histories are at best un-respectable and at worst disgusting and reprehensible, the Mormons have had to resort to vast semantic games and gymnastic level apologetics in order to even attempt to save face.

The only thing left for those who want to stay Mormon against all odds is to cling to "faith" and faith is just wanting something to be true for one's own selfish purposes.

But I left before the Information Age, before I knew all that. I left four decades ago after reading SWK's Miracle of Forgiveness and I knew immediately it was nothing but controlling manipulative poison. I realized in an instant if this was the supposed prophet, then the church was a lie. I had the most wonderful feeling envelop me. I felt like I was light as air. The weight was gone. I felt true joy for the first time ever. I was free from the control, the indoctrination.

You know. I finally had all the feelings you are *supposed* to get from doing Moroni's challenge. Which I did. Sincerely. Over and over. And I got bupkis and a very heavy feeling of hopelessness from doing it.

I was raised in the most Mormon family in the county with Dad being the bishop and stake patriarch. I did the mission and BYU and seminary and the whole enchilada. I was at BYU when I realized the church was a lie. No one was more surprised than I was. I didn't see it coming. But there is was. Undeniable.


All the years of beating myself up, of hating myself for being gay were gone. You can't even imagine the feeling.

Welcome friend...all are welcome here if they wish to be...your intro seems genuine but all too often dialogue pulls off a scab and off it goes...you'll likely have as much luck changing opinion here as exmormon has talking to TBMs...seems we see what we wish to see...and like Martin Harris we feel and see what JS lead him to see...such is the way feels work...the mind is quite complex but so easily lead at the same time...30 years ago my presumed TBM uncle made a statement to me that took twenty years to grow...I wish I'd have shut up and listened to him instead of running my mouth with all my theories of why the church is true...that statement was...I don't think any of them have anything...thirty years later darned if he wasn't right...you can't honestly and objectively study church history and stay Mormon...honestly being the key word...but that's entirely up to you if you like Easter bunnies and chocolate eggs

What is the reason you remain a devout Mormon, after the abusive Doomsday CULT has been revealed to be a fraud, that's been lying by omission over its whole history?
The CULT now admits that Joseph Smith really did "marry" (aka, rape)
his followers wives and teenage daughters when there is and never was a law that permitted that kind of perverted sexual abuse.
But yeah, keep teaching your children to sing the praises of a sexual predator. That grooms them to become victims.

For me all the evidence piled up so strongly against the church that it became totally and completely impossible to believe in.

At that point I immediately resigned my position in the church. I have not gone back since.

In the beginning I had very strong animosity towards the church and its teachings. 5 decades plus of living a lie is tough. However, today I am at peace.

Leaving was the greatest decision of my life. What a great feeling of freedom. I still try to follow the basic values I thought I were being taught of honesty, empathy, and humility (ability to recognize your own mistakes and improving upon them). It is actually to me easier and more guilt free for me to follow good basic values because they are right. As opposed to following values or so called values through coercion to get blessings or avoid punishments.

For me, initially, it was that Mormonism creates weird, cultic narcissistic members.

So if you marry one...it is probably doomed to fail. Your spouse didn't marry you, they married a role, like a priesthood holder, breadwinner, stay at home wife/mother, calling holder, someone that advances in leadership positions, a scribe and Pharisee mentality, conditional love, cross your boundaries, magnify small Mormons "sins" into big huge enormous "sins/problems/reasons to get divorce...

It just didn't work for me.

Things I was told to do that would bring me "blessings"...didn't. The Plan of Salvation made little sense to me. Going to the temple, being "naked touched", pantomiming slitting my throat and slicing my gut, raising my arms and "Pay Lay Ale-ing", was not spiritual but instead strangely controlling cultish. I could go on and on.

After being born in the church, and giving it 40 years of my life, I made the decision not to give it one more minute. I offered up one last prayer to god, that if he loved me as much as I was taught and answered it I would return. That was 20 years ago and I am still waiting for that answer.

I remember being told that leaving the church would lead to sadness, heartache, and despair. Surprisingly, my worst days being out of the church are better than my best days while I was in.

The main reason I left was that I don't believe in child molestation. I don't ignore it, I don't cover I up, I will always report it.

After I left, I found it was totally untrue. Even the essays on lds.org say it's untrue. Warren Jeffs has spent his whole life being exactly like js. Why would you admire a person like that? Why would you base your faith and character on a person like that.

Everyone has a choice. The more I learn and the more I know the church is based on the antichrist (if you believe in that)

I stopped believing fundamental, core LDS doctrines, so there was no reason to remain Mormon. I left.

I became educated in LDS church history and was shocked what had been left out at Sunday School, seminary, and even religion classes at BYU.

I studied world mythology and the elements of religion how they arise. JS did not do anything unique. Once you recognize there's a reason religions require faith and not facts (poor standards for evidence), the game is over. When people are taught to obey authority figures and believe what they say, that is the first sign that should prompt independent study.

Most religions teach they are special and have the right views. Most people follow along with how they were raised.

I am disappointed that most LDS (I did this) assume that people who leave couldn't keep their rules/standards, were offended, or must be committing a sin. They do not want to hear that people do their homework and leave. They label anything that doesn't agree with them bad and anti-Mormon which to keep members from reading contrary views.

I felt bad reading No Man Knows My History by Fawn Brodie, (McKay's granddaughter) until I started checking her footnotes and the LDS church rebuttal by Hugh Nibley. Then I realized she presented a more truthful biography of JS than I was taught.

The next domino that fell was researching the Book of Abraham. You can read By His Own Hand Upon Papyrus by Charles Larson. Finally things were making sense.

Other issues were their reasons for a male priesthood which I found uncomfortable being female. I did not believe a god needed a male middleman, let alone tokens and symbols in the temple. Funny how the Celestial Kingdom and temple mirrored male fantasy (endless property and power with multiple women breeders). Powerful religious men often manage to interpret that "God" wants them to have multiple sex partners, as did JS. See In Sacred Loneliness by Compton for an eye-opener about what was going on with JS and women. In Sunday School, of course they tried to portray JS and Emma as a nice happy family.

I could list many issues. I do recognize the problems with leaving the culture your family has had for 5 generations, and the sense of belonging. It was very difficult to fact the facts and have everything your views were linked to questioned. I experienced this.

As far as the origin of the church, you would have to be willfully stubborn not to find out the facts, with the internet at your fingertips nowadays. Many stay because they don't care if it is true or not. It mattered to me.

Good luck in your quest. Questioning and deciding for yourself is the first step in taking control of your life as an authentic adult. Your brain's neuron networks have well worn paths through repetition that have formed the way you think. It is not easy to forge new thoughts at first, but extremely rewarding. The world is so much more than living in a Mormon thought bubble doing busy-Mormon things.

My commentary on the subject generally always goes like this (something that I also used in a comments section on Mormons):

The LDS church holds fast to the principle that only one of three things causes people to leave the church--sin, pride, or offence. Only those three; there are no other possibilities. A person sins. A person is too proud. A person is offended in some petty way, such as having his or her name misspelled.

Remember when Mormons used to get excommunicated for teaching that the Book of Mormon was translated using a peep stone? Or for teaching that Joseph Smith married the wives of other men (even though you could easily find that in Family Search)? And then lawsuits regarding the bait-and-switch techniques of winning "converts" forced the church to admit that they had not been upfront with people, and they released the 11 so-called "essays"--which, although dabbling in the truth, still hold back on all the facts. This kind of breach of trust caused me and other associates to quit Mormonism. Not pride. Not sin. Not offence.

The truth matters. If you are willing examine all the evidence available today you will find the church's foundational claims are not true as I have. You will also discover that Smith was a very dishonest self aggrandizing opportunist.

"The truth matters."

When you distill this entire amazing thread down to it's very core, the truth matters, is what you get. That is the essence of every post I dare say.

Mormons stay in the church because the truth doesn't matter to them. It's impossible not to know at least some of the facts nowadays so they must be discounted by any means necessary by Mormons.

I've stated this on RFM a few times before but here goes.

I stumbled across a publication that was about the journals of Joseph Smith's plural wives. I picked up a copy and was stunned to read that JS had married many more women than I had been told. He had also married other mens' wives after having sent the husbands on foreign missions. There was more information I'd never heard about JS but this stunned me the most. I verified the sources of the book and then approached a well respected church institute teacher about my findings. His response was, "Yes, it's all true. But the church is still true." So much of what I had been taught by missionaries during my conversion to Mormonism was now known to me to be false and he had the audacity to say the church was still true. I was flabbergasted.

Well, I started my search into other topics and found more and more things that I had been told, and believed, that were not true. I stopped donating money to the church and stopped attending services but still did not leave. I just didn't know how to tell all this to my family and friends.

Then, while watching the T.V. interview program "Larry King Live", I heard the prophet of the Mormon church telling the world that his church did not teach the concept that God was once a man and that men could someday become gods. This is one of the first things the missionaries had taught me!! I was livid. That is the moment when I determined that I could in no way be any part of such a despicable organization that deceived innocent and trusting people with lies. Calling that organization a church is an abomination. I left ASAP.

This was one of three interviews that sealed the deal for me.

The prophet denied exaltaion, he even denied being the prophet .

The second item. A talk that said people that were sexually abused needed to meet with the bishop to repent of their part/guilt in being raped and abused.

The third item

The church position to pay tithing even if your children go hungry or without medical care. Jesus taught that those that abuse children are better off never being born.

Last....obey without thinking? Jesus himself taught to challenge all teachings. In 3rd Nephi after he had appeared to the Lamanites and taught them, performing miracles etc. He sent them home to ponder and pray and ask Father if what they were taught was correct. So if we give blind obedience to the church, are they saying they are greater than Christ?

Pooped Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then, while watching the T.V. interview program "Larry King Live",..."

I remember as a TBM at the time being so excited to watch Hinckley being interviewed by Larry King. All my life I had been taught to bear my testimony of god's ONE TRUE CHURCH with ONE TRUE LIVING PROPHET whenever the opportunity presented itself.

What better opportunity for Hinckley than to be in front of a live audience of millions? As I sat in front of my TV with my popcorn, I could hardly wait for Hinckley to "set the example" and testify to the viewers of the truthfulness of the church and of him being god's chosen prophet. I ended up being disappointed...but then grateful. Instead of Hinckley carrying a banner of "the one true church", he carried a red flag. That helped me when it came to sorting things out later.

The rituals and the leaders. Didn't agree or like either one. Plus the abuse growing up that i am still paying for.

My main reason was the human rights issues.

If the prophet really talked to god, then why is LDS always at the very back of the pack when it comes to treating all people like humans? It seems like god would tell the prophet that the chosen people need to be the leaders in looking out for their brothers and sisters on this planet.

Black men denied the priesthood till 1978 when most of america recognized african americans as equals. The LDS had to be pulled along behind while other groups at the forefront of the movement set the example. And don't get me started on how angry it made me to hear the explanation that it was for their own good. Joseph Fielding Smith who was prophet till 1972 said that the black race was cursed and if a person had one drop of Negro blood they could not have the priesthood.

Encouraged members to support anti-gay marriage legislation from the pulpit.

Women relegated to support roles both at church and at home. Yes, Utah did allow women to vote early on but that's because they needed their votes to sway national elections in LDS favor.

Fought against ERA amendment.

And it goes on.

So my reasoning was this. Even if God is talking to LDS prophets, then he is not telling them that human rights is important and that all people are created equal.

So, even if LDS is God's church I still don't want anything to do with it. I don't want to worship a God who fits the current definition of abusive, especially the mental/emotional abuse.

If the LDS God is the true God, then I will demand to be sent to Lucifer when I die and I will do my almighty best to help him.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2018 12:59PM by jane.

At age eight my family moved to a then somewhat deserted area of Las Vegas, smack dab next door to Bishop Samuel Davis. ...next door... Meaning that if there had been any flaws to the man, or his wife, Marva, I would have noticed them. These were, for all intents and purposes, perfect beings.

They had already lost one baby, Richard, and a coupld of years later they lost Laura Lynn, who was two years my junior. Their faith never flinched nor flagged.

I began attending church with the family and found many of my favorite playmates at 9th St. Elementary School at Primary and Jr. Sunday School, so win-win!

I recognize now that my testimony was based on the testimony of people like Bishop (and later SP & Las Vegas Temple President) Davis, and the next bishop, Dick Worthen, and his wife.

My faith in the Truthiness of mormonism ended on May 22, 1965, when I went through the St. George temple. I was in constant amazement during the proceedings, from the 'are you going to touch my penis?' moment all the way through to the old codger who was quite impatient with me and my efforts to achieve 'full fellowship' with him to get through the veil. Even being given the special name of the day, Mormoni, couldn't save it for mormonism.

It was keenly aware to me that the temple was simply a secret club, designed to puff up its members. Certainly no All Powerful, All Knowing deity could have had anything to do with the silliness that went on in there, much less what we had to wear.

But there were still the examples of my bishops and all the other good mormons I thought I knew. So I went on my mission and then on to the Y, following the calm, meditative path of spiritual mormonism, despite by this time (achieved about half way through my mission) of having become an atheist.

As a working adult, with a family, mormonism let me down; it no longer was the source of pride and as an adult I saw a LOT more into the hearts of the supposed good people, sufficient to see that they were flawed, and based on many of their actions, not really 'believers. Ever seen beer served at a Elders Quorum activity?

The history of the temples in mormonism is a real let down if you're keen on mormonism. Take a look at this page:
http://www.fullerconsideration.com/templenameoracle.php

You'll find the majority of all the temple names "secretly" handed out, about as cheaply and ignomiously as possible. Go down to the bottom of the page and learn how Abraham & Sarah were the original Secret Names, based on the story of ghawd changing Abram & Sarai to these new names. Fine story, but then the church changed it! Temple workers could had out ANY name they felt like! Until finally at the first ot 1965, church correlation took over and daily names were assigned.

And as it had been from the beginning, if your name was Abraham or Sarah, you got Adam or Eve, which is still the tradition, if your name is the same as that day's names. Really, read those stories down at the bottom! Hilarious!

There is nothing, zero, zilch, nada special about the temple, nor about TCOJCOLDS. And as the years have progressed, it has changed from a somewhat helpful organization to a mean, grasping and deceitful organization, whose goal is simply money, not the salvation of its members.

At the end of the day Mormonism is a costly (pecuniary and non-pecuniary) religion

I simply could not see the hand of god anywhere in it so the cost vs benefits were wildly out of proportion.

No sin no offense no laziness; it just wasn’t what it purported

So what is it about you, devoutmormon, that makes you think the benefits outweigh the cost?

Am genuinely interested to hear

I studied my way out of the Mormon church.

Historically--my ancestors were neighbors of Joseph Smith, and among the very first Mormons. I read several of their diaries--in their own handwriting--and found out some of the truth behind the Mormons' false history.

--Book of Abraham was actually a funeral document, which JS mis-translated.

--Book of Mormon obviously poorly written, plagiarized from the King James Bible, and not inspired at all. There are errors in the book. Native Indians are not descended from Jews. DNA evidence proves this, scientifically. No horses were in America in BOM times. Steel swords were not manufactured at that time. There has never been any archeological evidence of the great battles described in the BOM. Names and places were borrowed.

--The Three Degrees of Glory is borrowed from Swedenberg's writings. I had a conversation with President Stephen L Richards, First Counselor to David O. McKay, and he didn't believe in the 3 kingdoms. He said, "No one has died and gone to Heaven, and returned to tell about it. No one knows--not Joseph Smith--not anyone."

--Polygamy was never God's way. There was never a shortage of males, never a need to take care of "extra" women. Joseph Smith married Helen Marr Kimball, who was 14 years old. He married other men's wives!

I was a teacher in the Relief Society. While studying for my lessons, I found out that the Mormon church is a hoax. I prayed about it, and was impressed that Joseph Smith and the other polygamous prophets we were studying had no "authority" from God. This began my search for the Truth.

I left Mormonism to follow Christ. I (try to) live an exemplary Christian life. My children are Christians, too, and good people. We were glad to let go of the old Mormon prejudices. I'm a working mother--and happy to have my rights.

We did lose most of our Mormon "friends," but we moved on, and are happy and successful. Mormonism depressed me.

I'm a gay man who was raised Mormon, growing up in the 1970s and 1980s. I internalized all the hateful things the Mormon church had to say about gay people like me. After serving a mission and graduating from BYU Summa Cum Laude I sunk into a deep depression. It wasn't until after my third suicide attempt that I began to question what the Mormons were saying about gay people.

Believe it or not, I prayed about it, and received an overwhelming answer to that prayer. Being gay is exactly what God intended when he created me. There was absolutely nothing wrong with me. The problem lay entirely with the Mormons. Freeing myself from the Mormon church is the best decision I ever made.

I had to ask myself why legitimate churches are forthcoming with all the financial and membership data regarding their organizations. Only the Catholic Church, Jehovah's Witnesses, and a few other cultish churches, including Mormonism, refuse to release their pertinent information about money and membership. Mormonism seems to hide the most.

Why does Mormonism proclaim such a high membership number and conversion rate yet refuse to release the number of persons leaving the church? There is no possible way to confirm nor believe that their membership numbers are accurate unless they also release the number of members who are resigning or have gone completely inactive for more than ten or even twenty years. The only possible reason to hide this information is because they are not telling the whole truth. That is called by most Christian faiths a sin of omission.

And why are the members not allowed to know where exactly their significant 10% or more donations are going? The Mormon church should be proud of its record of donations and how that money is spent in good works and church building, temple building, education, etc. Everyone knows it is successful financially so why not open the books and show how they do it? What is there to hide?

And why is the general membership never told about the huge tracts of land the church owns that is used for hunting excursions, fishing getaways, and such for only the general authorities. Don't they want their members to see how well they treat the V.I.P.'s in Mormonism? Are they trying to pretend that there are no perks given to these honored men?

I learned long ago that where there are secrets there is corruption. I would like the Mormon church to prove me wrong in at least one case. Churches in other countries are required by law to make public this type of information so it can be determined if they are worthy of a tax exempt status. If the laws in the U.S.A. were to change, what would we learn about Mormonism?

These are just some questions you might also like to ask yourself.

All of the above.

Can you say false doctrine ?
I knew you could.

This General Conference talk
https://www.lds.org/general-conference/2008/10/celestial-marriage?lang=eng

"While salvation is an individual matter, exaltation is a family matter. Only those who are married in the temple and whose marriage is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise will continue as spouses after deathand receive the highest degree of celestial glory, or exaltation. A temple marriage is also called a celestial marriage. Within the celestial glory are three levels. To obtain the highest, a husband and wife must be sealed for time and all eternity and keep their covenants made in a holy temple."

I honestly don't know why it took a General Conference talk to finally go inactive after dutifully taking my children to church by myself for nine years. I was married in the temple by the way, but he stopped going almost immediately after marriage.

I figured screw this shit. He's not going to change. I can't do this until the day I die (kids with severe issues). No matter what I do I will never go to the celestial kingdom because I am nothing without a man. Oh sure, I can be assigned a husband because my former one was not "faithful". I figured if there was a God he'd understand it was not possible for me to continue on with three hour church services and all the callings.

In my newly found free time, I decided to study church history (not anti-mormon sites). I discovered it was a fraud and made a final decision to never go back when the church decided to punish the children of gay parents.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/10/2018 04:06PM by abby.

That's a brave question for you to ask being an active devout Mormon. I say that sincerely.
The main reason for my reason for my leaving is discovering that the church was not what I was taught to believe it was.

It began with a fateful conversation with a woman from a ward I was visiting years ago regarding the priesthood ban. I questioned why a "loving god" would keep his blessings from certain members based on their skin color. That's when I learned about Brigham Young's racist teachings. I am aware that racial segregation and racism was commonplace during the times of Brigham Young and Joseph Smith, but for a church claiming to be God's only true church on the face of the planet, I expected more. I questioned where was god to chastise Young for teaching such hate. Where was god to chastise the so-called prophets from Young up to Kimball for following and allowing such hate. Then I questioned whether or not these men were prophets that received answers from god. And when Gordon B Hinkley was asked about the priesthood ban and the church's racist past, he acts like he doesn't know in one interview (why could "god" tell him) and in another interview he dismisses it as a "fleck of history."

It continued with polygamy. After getting a good glimpse into the FLDS after the 2008 raid, seeing shows such as "Sister Wives" on air, I had many questions about it. When I asked members why polygamy began in the first place, just to be disbanded sometime after they would just say, "God just commanded it." That answer did not help. And not enough of, "Having faith, praying and studying the scriptures" helped to answer my questions either. I had to look into history and find out about Joseph Smith adulterous affair with Fanny Alger, and Joseph tried to play it off as something that god had commanded him to do. He also passed off his extramarital affairs as it being polygamy, something that god had commanded him to do. And if it was something that god himself wanted Joseph to do, why would Joseph have to hide it or lie about it. For example: "What a thing to accuse a man of having seven wives, when I only see one." (A quote from Joseph Smith.) When his polyamory was to be exposed through the Nauvoo Expositor, he had it destroyed. And THAT is what got him jailed and eventually killed. It had nothing to do with his religion, buy hid polygamy and polyamory.

How racist the Book of Mormon seemed. The skin of darkness always bothered me, along with a line in 1 Nephi 13 (and I behold that these people were white, exceedingly fair and beautiful as my people had once been." I tried to overlook it during my time in the church, but that had always bothered, especially being a minority.

I did not like that these taught that depression or negative emotions were of "satin." I was treated as such after I had a cerebral hemorrhage at 26, following a grand mal seizure (that had taken me out for 20 minutes) just afte I turned 27. Since it's THE BRAIN, of course I'm going to have depression or struggle mentally. My former ward members did not seem to get that. And I do not believe that negative emotions are of "the devil." We are HUMAN, so of course we're going to get upset at times, jealous at times, or even angry. As HUMANS we have it in us. A guided meditation that I have been listening to said that there is nothing wrong with feeling sadness, anger and such. It said to just welcome them and work on it. We can't be happy all of time (even though the church's claim is that its gospel is supposed to make you HAPPY like some sort of drug). It's not real. As humans we have emotions. It's not realistic to be a happy little robot of the time. Which was what I exhausted myself trying to be because it was how I had to exist in that ward.

It was these aforementioned examples, and others that led me to realize that the Mormon church was just another church. I tired to stay for a few months, but I couldn't sit there and pretend I believed in it, Joseph Smith, etc. Especially when church members would sometimes sporadically call you to share you testimony. I couldn't lie.

So those are the reasons for my leaving. Another important main reason that I left was for my personal honesty and integrity.

It boiled down to three reasons:

1. Historical claims are not accurate

2. The church’s values are not my values

3. In the 2002 General Conference, Russell M. Nelson gave a comprehensive talk regarding how Christ’s love is conditional and confirmed what the rest of the christian world had always suspected true of Mormonism - that, at its basis, it is a cult.

From my childhood onward I didn't worry about whether the church was true or not. I just didn't care. I never had a testimony about the book of Mormon either. Never read it...or wanted to. I made my own choices and my faithful LDS parents respected my decision. It had no effect on how much they loved me unlike many who post on this site.

When every car of the LDS train derails, the train stops. The ride is over.

Fake priesthood, doctrine, BoM, etc., and misogyny.

No matter how humble and spiritual and good the woman, she could never hope to be as 'high' as the male who 'holds' the priesthood.

I remember once being in a little room at my son's ward, while his completely uncaring son (my grandson) had the priesthood 'bestowed' on him.

I felt outraged. At the time, I was a TB member of some standing, but none of that mattered, compared to the bestowal of the pd on this young, uncaring, youth.

Later, I spent a great deal of time studying the pd, and discovered it was a fraud, as taught and practiced by the LDS church.

I wrote a paper regarding this, and almost got canned for doing so. I was told I could believe what I wanted, but that I couldn't say it out loud or share it with anyone.

Since then, the only time I've gone to church was for my husband's funeral (at which I didn't allow "Mormonism" to be preached, but the man himself honored; and once, to witness a grandchild being baptized (which didn't set well with me at all). (It was a family affair.)