"Why Do Americans Still Dislike Atheists?"

by Gregory Paul and Phil Zuckerman
29 April 2011

"Long after blacks and Jews have made great strides, and even as homosexuals gain respect, acceptance and new rights, there is still a group that lots of Americans just don’t like much: atheists. Those who don’t believe in God are widely considered to be immoral, wicked and angry. They can’t join the Boy Scouts. Atheist soldiers are rated potentially deficient when they do not score as sufficiently 'spiritual' in military psychological evaluations. Surveys find that most Americans refuse or are reluctant to marry or vote for non[theists; in other words, non-believers are one minority still commonly denied in practical terms the right to assume office despite the constitutional ban on religious tests.

"Rarely denounced by the mainstream, this stunning anti-atheist discrimination is egged on by Christian conservatives who stridently — and uncivilly--declare that the lack of godly faith is detrimental to society, rendering non-believers intrinsically suspect and second-class citizens.

"Is this knee-jerk dislike of atheists warranted? Not even close.

"A growing body of social science research reveals that atheists, and non-religious people in general, are far from the unsavory beings many assume them to be. On basic questions of morality and human decency--issues such as governmental use of torture, the death penalty, punitive hitting of children, racism, sexism, homophobia, anti-Semitism, environmental degradation or human rights--the irreligious tend to be more ethical than their religious peers, particularly compared with those who describe themselves as very religious.

"Consider that at the societal level, murder rates are far lower in secularized nations such as Japan or Sweden than they are in the much more religious United States, which also has a much greater portion of its population in prison. Even within this country, those states with the highest levels of church attendance, such as Louisiana and Mississippi, have significantly higher murder rates than far less religious states such as Vermont and Oregon.

"As individuals, atheists tend to score high on measures of intelligence, especially verbal ability and scientific literacy. They tend to raise their children to solve problems rationally, to make up their own minds when it comes to existential questions and to obey the golden rule. They are more likely to practice safe sex than the strongly religious are, and are less likely to be nationalistic or ethnocentric. They value freedom of thought.

"While many studies show that secular Americans don’t fare as well as the religious when it comes to certain indicators of mental health or subjective well-being, new scholarship is showing that the relationships among atheism, theism, and mental health and well-being are complex. After all, Denmark, which is among the least religious countries in the history of the world, consistently rates as the happiest of nations. And studies of apostates — people who were religious but later rejected their religion — report feeling happier, better and liberated in their post-religious lives.

"Non-theism isn’t all balloons and ice cream. Some studies suggest that suicide rates are higher among the non-religious. But surveys indicating that religious Americans are better off can be misleading because they include among the non-religious fence-sitters who are as likely to believe in God, whereas atheists who are more convinced are doing about as well as devout believers. On numerous respected measures of societal success--rates of poverty, teenage pregnancy, abortion, sexually transmitted diseases, obesity, drug use and crime, as well as economics--high levels of secularity are consistently correlated with positive outcomes in first-world nations. None of the secular advanced democracies suffers from the combined social ills seen here in Christian America.

"More than 2,000 years ago, whoever wrote Psalm 14 claimed that atheists were foolish and corrupt, incapable of doing any good. These put-downs have had sticking power. Negative stereotypes of atheists are alive and well. Yet like all stereotypes, they aren’t true — and perhaps they tell us more about those who harbor them than those who are maligned by them. So when the likes of Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Bill O’Reilly and Newt Gingrich engage in the politics of division and destruction by maligning atheists, they do so in disregard of reality.

"As with other national minority groups, atheism is enjoying rapid growth. Despite the bigotry, the number of American non-theists has tripled as a proportion of the general population since the 1960s. Younger generations’ tolerance for the endless disputes of religion is waning fast. Surveys designed to overcome the understandable reluctance to admit atheism have found that as many as 60 million Americans--a fifth of the population--are not believers. Our non-religious compatriots should be accorded the same respect as other minorities."

("Why Do Americans Still Dislike Atheists?," Gregory Paul and Phil Zuckerman, "Washington Post," 29 April 2011, at: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/why-do-americans-still-dislike-atheists/2011/02/18/AFqgnwGF_story.html)

Good article! Thanks for posting it. Religious believers seem to think "Atheist" means a person who hates God. Reality is it's just someone who doesn't find enough evidence to convince them to believe in something labeled a supernatural being.

brought to you by society’s sizeable superstitious sector, as shamelessly manipulated and played by machiavellian politicians and cagey clerics who use the ignorance of the people to attain and consolidate power over the mutton-headed masses.

Which brings to mind what Founder Alexander Hamilton is reported to have observed during the Constitutional Convention:

“The masses are asses.“

(By the way, I first became aware of that quote on the opening day of my political geography class at BYU, when professor Horiuchi, without a word, introduced himself to the class by writing it on the blackboard. Oh, the perversity of the Lord University).



Edited 7 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2018 09:55PM by steve benson.

A friend, a never mo, stopped by this afternoon. We sat on my screened porch enjoying the nice weather that finally arrived and talked for an hour or so. He told me his wife is upset in that she feels I converted him to be an atheist. I did no such thing. In fact, we rarely talk religion. As far as I knew, he was always a non-believer. We have known each other over 25 years at work and socially. I am apparently evil. Sigh... This has nothing to do with Mormonism. I am disappointed that she thinks so little of me. I always felt she was a bit distant when we would meet as couples for dinner or a concert. Now I know. Being a non-religious person in the Bible Belt is often a conscious effort to never offend and watch what what words are said. It wears me out. I am an introvert and this makes being an introvert even tougher. Oh well. It is not just Mormons who find me offensive. I think I will just hide behind my saxophone and play some blues.

People are quick to condemn atheists, however I find believers in God puzzling. Having seen numerous posts about God, its odd that even believers cannot arrive at a consensus as to the character or identity of God. Even the Bible paints this schizophrenic picture. The Old Testament God is quite different then the God/Christ made "manifest" in the New Testament. I find it odd that something that supposedly exists cannot be defined. I have started to call this character a smorgasbord God. However you choose to define him becomes your reality. Most Christians don't find this troubling but are troubled by atheists. ODD!!!!!

Perhaps because they are always courteous, never supercilious, and never evangelical in their fervor to attack and only ever project a humble self deprecating persona.

Stalin
Mao
Pol Pot
Kim Jung Un

https://thebestschools.org/features/top-atheists-in-the-world-today/



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 11:29AM by steve benson.

It would be nice if they removed Woody Allen from that list.

. . . in a deeply creepy, cruel and criminal Christian sort of way.

“The Religion of Hitler”

by John Patrick Michael Murphy

“In George Orwell's ‘1984,’ it was stated, ‘Who controls the past controls the future, who controls the present controls the past.’

“Who is going to control the present - fundamentalism or freedom? History is being distorted by many preachers and politicians. They are heard on the airwaves condemning atheists and routinely claim Adolph Hitler was one. What a crock! Hitler was a Roman Catholic, baptized into that religio-political institution as an infant in Austria. He became a communicant and an altar boy in his youth, and was confirmed as a ‘soldier of Christ.’ in that church. The worst doctrines of that church never left him. He was steeped in its liturgy, which contained the words, ‘perfidious Jew.’ This hateful statement was not removed until 1961. Perfidy means treachery.

“In his day, hatred of Jews was the norm. In great measure it was sponsored by the two major religions of Germany, Catholicism and Lutheranism. He greatly admired Martin Luther, who openly hated the Jews. Luther condemned the Catholic Church for its pretensions and corruption, but he supported the centuries of papal pogroms against the Jews. Luther said, ‘The Jews deserve to be hanged on gallows seven times higher than ordinary thieves,’ and ‘We ought to take revenge on the Jews and kill them.’ ‘Ungodly wretches’ he calls the Jews in his widely read Table Talk.

“Hitler seeking power, wrote in ‘Mein Kampf.’ ‘. . . I am convinced that I am acting as the agent of our Creator. By fighting off the Jews. I am doing the Lord's work.’ Years later, when in power, he quoted those same words in a Reichstag speech in 1938.

“Three years later he informed General Gerhart Engel: ‘I am now as before a Catholic and will always remain so.’ He never left the church, and the church never left him. Great literature was banned by his church, but his miserable ‘Mein Kampf’ never appeared on the ‘Index of Forbidden Books.’

“He was not excommunicated or even condemned by his church. Popes, in fact, contracted with Hitler and his fascist friends Franco and Mussolini, giving them veto power over whom the pope could appoint as a bishop in Germany, Spain and Italy. The three thugs agreed to surtax the Catholics of their countries and send the money to Rome in exchange for making sure the state could control the church.

“Those who would make Hitler an atheist should turn their eyes to history books before they address their pews and microphones. Acclaimed Hitler biographer, John Toland, explains his heartlessness as follows: ‘Still a member in good standing of the Church of Rome despite detestation of its hierarchy, he carried within him its teaching that the Jew was the killer of god. The extermination, therefore, could be done without a twinge of conscience since he was merely acting as the avenging hand of god. . . .‘

“Hitler's Germany amalgamated state with church. Soldiers of the vermacht wore belt buckles inscribed with the following: ‘Gott mit uns’ (‘God is with us’). His troops were often sprinkled with holy water by the priests. It was a real Christian country whose citizens were indoctrinated by both state and church to blindly follow all authority figures, political and ecclesiastical.

“Hitler, like some of today's politicians and preachers, politicized ‘family values.’ He liked corporal punishment in home and in school. Jesus prayers became mandatory in all schools under his administration. While abortion was illegal in pre-Hitler Germany he took it to new depths of enforcement, requiring all doctors to report to the government the circumstances of all miscarriages. He openly despised homosexuality and criminalized it. If past is prologue, we know what to expect if liberty becomes license.

“As a young child, I remember my late father, Martin J. Murphy, practicing a speech and loudly quoting the following: ‘Light up the mountain. Bring out the wild and fiery steed. Let it be known, that I, Gustavus, have insulted the King.’ Thinking for yourself and speaking your true thoughts - now that's a real family value.

(Source: “The Religion of Hitler,” 1998, by John Patrick Michael Murphy; electronic version, 1999, “Internet Infidels,” with written permission of John Patrick Michael Murphy)



Edited 6 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 12:45PM by steve benson.

“List of Religious Leaders Convicted of Crimes

“This is a list of religious leaders who have been convicted of serious [and violent] crimes before, during or after their period as a religious leader. . . .

“Tony Alamo - Headed a Santa Clarita commune. Convicted of tax evasion in 1994 and then resided in a halfway house in Texarkana.[1] In 2009, he was convicted of ten federal counts of taking minors across state lines for sex, and sentenced to 150 years in federal prison.

“Shoko Asahara - Founder of Aum Shinrikyo sentenced to death by hanging under Japanese law for involvement in the 1995 Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway.

“Wayne Bent (aka: Michael Travesser) - Founder of Lord Our Righteousness Church, sometimes called Strong City. Was convicted of one count of criminal sexual contact of a minor and two counts of contributing to the delinquency of a minor in 2008.[4] Was sentenced to 18 years with eight years suspended.

“Graham Capill - former leader of Christian Heritage New Zealand. Sentenced to nine-year imprisonment term in 2005 after multiple charges of child sexual abuse against girls younger than twelve.

“Matthew F. Hale - Former leader of Creativity Movement sentenced to a 40-year prison term for soliciting an undercover FBI informant to kill a federal judge.

“Warren Jeffs - Once President of Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (a polygamist Mormon sect), convicted of rape as an accomplice (overturned in 2010). Jeffs also awaits trial in other states and in the federal court system.

“Jung Myung Seok - South Korean religious sect leader and founder of Providence. Convicted for raping several of his followers.

“William Kamm - An Australian religious sect leader and self-styled Pope Peter II who was sentenced to prison in October 2005 for a string of sexual attacks on a 15-year-old girl. In August 2007 his sentence was increased after being found guilty for a series of sexual abuses against another teenage girl over a five-year period.

”Ervil LeBaron - Led a small sect of polygamous Mormon fundamentalists, and was convicted of involvement in the murder of two people and plotting to kill another person in 1981.

“Alice Lenshina - Zambian head and founder of the Lumpa Church. Conflicts with the government over the sect's rejection of taxes led to a violent confrontation and her subsequent imprisonment.

“Jeffrey Lundgren - Headed splinter group from Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, executed October 24, 2006, for multiple murders.

“Charles Manson - Leader of the Manson Family who served life in prison for first degree murder until his death in 2017.

“Shukri Mustafa - Egyptian leader of Takfir wal-Hijra who was captured and executed for the kidnap murder of an Egyptian ex-government minister.

“Fred Phelps - Leader of anti-gay Westboro Baptist Church. Convicted for disorderly conduct and battery.

“Swami Premananda of Tiruchirapalli - Indian religious leader convicted and sentenced to two life sentences for the rape of 13 girls and murder in 2005.

“Theodore Rinaldo - Leader of a religious group in Snohomish, Washington convicted of third-degree statutory rape for having sexual intercourse with one minor girl and of taking indecent liberties with another.

“Paul Schäfer - Former head of Chile-based Colonia Dignidad, was convicted of sexually abusing 25 children.

“Roch Thériault - Former head of ‘Ant Hill Kids commune’ served a life sentence in Canada for the murder of Solange Boislard.

“Yahweh Ben Yahweh - Head of Nation of Yahweh, convicted for Federal racketeering charges and conspiracy involving 14 murders.

“Dwight York - Head of Nuwaubianism, convicted in 2004 of multiple RICO, child molestation, and financial reporting charges and sentenced to 135 years in prison.

“Gurmeet Ram Rahim Singh -an Indian guru, music producer, singer-songwriter, actor, and filmmaker. He has been the head of the social group Dera Sacha Sauda since 1990. On 28 August 2017, Singh was sentenced to 20 years in jail for rape. He has also faced prosecution for murder and ordering forced castrations. He is also alleged to have committed sexual assaults on many of his followers. He is also involved in murder of a journalist.”

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religious_leaders_convicted_of_crimes



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 12:18PM by steve benson.

Like those in the religious God clubs, there's a list of top atheists? And what is the reason for posting inclusion to another club of like-mindedness?

Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 03:54PM by steve benson.

Ignore what people say. Watch what they do.

Claiming belief in a god is the socially acceptable answer (in fact the god you believe in in most of the US better be Je-hee-zus if you know what's good for you) so that is the answer most people give.

Based on their actions, I'd say a rather large chunk of the populace are atheists. I would include most evangelicals in that. They believe in their tribe. God is just the mascot, which everybody knows is just a mask to hide behind.

Thanks, Brother of Jerry. That's certainly how it looks from outside the US.

The Problem with atheism
https://youtu.be/wwi9Q9apHGI
It's just warmed up Nihlism



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 12:06PM by koriwhore.

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Problem with atheism
> https://youtu.be/wwi9Q9apHGI
> It's just warmed up Nihlism

As has been pointed out to you (with ample evidence) dozens of times...no, it's not.

Delusion is defined as a persistent belief in something despite ample evidence to show it false. Seems to apply here.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> koriwhore Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > The Problem with atheism
> > https://youtu.be/wwi9Q9apHGI
> > It's just warmed up Nihlism
>
> As has been pointed out to you (with ample
> evidence) dozens of times...no, it's not.
>
> Delusion is defined as a persistent belief in
> something despite ample evidence to show it false.
> Seems to apply here.

That's your opinion, which is far from proven.
I'd say ego has a lot to do with your opinion, not mine.
I'm not the one identifying as anything, other than, NOT and atheist/nihlist. Tried that. It didn't work for me.

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm not the one identifying as anything, other
> than, NOT and atheist/nihlist. Tried that. It
> didn't work for me.

But you ARE the one declaring atheists nihilists, despite atheists being simply NOT believers in god.

Why not apply your own standard to others, and stop identifying people dishonestly?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 01:41PM by ificouldhietokolob.

I don't understand why you keep pushing this nihilism point (note the spelling.)

I'm an atheist and from what I've seen, I have a better moral compass than a lot of the so-called-Christians who are running things these days.

If you leave Her off, I think the 10 Commandments provide a pretty good set of "your right to swing your fist ends at my nose" rules to live by.

Does the fact that I don't believe in Her make me nihilistic? I don't think so.

I can only speak for myself, and not others. There's a large sector of atheists who come across as all knowing in an attempt to discredit the beliefs of another. It comes across no differently than the religious zealot who refuses to respect of others in their non belief.

If you fall into either of those categories, I'm certain you won't see any merit in my opinion.

steve benson Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> n/t

I'm not declaring war on atheists.
My partner is an atheist and we get along great.
I just think it's a meaningless identity. It's like being an anti-Santa Clausist, once you find out Santa Claus is not real.
Why identify yourself in terms you reject?

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just think it's a meaningless identity. It's
> like being an anti-Santa Clausist, once you find
> out Santa Claus is not real.

Yes, you've made that perfectly clear -- over and over and over and over again. Others don't. You get that, right? You're not trying to insist they agree with you, are you?

> Why identify yourself in terms you reject?

Don't.

But that's not what you're doing here -- rejecting the label for yourself.
You're conflating atheism with nihilism.
The very definitions you posted show why that's ridiculous.
Yet you persist in trying to label others, despite the labels you're using being shown ridiculous by your own posts.
Why?

"Why identify yourself in terms you reject?"

I actually don't anymore. I refuse to put labels on myself when it comes to spiritual beliefs. If someone asks me what religion I am, I now simply say, "Oh, I wasn't raised with religion. I wasn't raised not to be religious. It just never came up," which is true.

I'm the one who went searching for religion and tried my best to be a religious person. It just finally became clear that it wasn't going to work out for me.

I'm never the one who brings up the subject first. I don't know why people feel the need to ask someone about it in the first place.

girlawakened Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I can only speak for myself, and not others.
> There's a large sector of atheists who come across
> as all knowing in an attempt to discredit the
> beliefs of another. It comes across no differently
> than the religious zealot who refuses to respect
> of others in their non belief.

I've seen a few such atheists.
In my experience, it's nowhere near a "large sector." Just a few arrogant idiots, as is to be expected in any group of people.

By and large, atheists have a healthy respect for what we don't know, and acknowledge it (without making up explanations).

Compared to religious believers, who -- without a shred of evidence -- declare they "know" their believed-in god thing exists, "know" what he wants, and "know" that they're doing his will. Now *that* comes across as "all-knowing" -- and delusional.

Is it wrong to say "Amen" to that?

R-amen!

I get tired of the way atheists often insist that "God" be taken out of everything. I have an atheist friend and he doesn't like the Pledge of Allegiance because it says "under God." And sometimes atheists seem to stir up trouble just for the heck of it -- such as when they demand the Ten Commandments be removed from public property, etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 12:41PM by rubi123.

There is this thing we have in this country. It is called Separation of Church and State. Our founding fathers considered it vital. Why do the religious have a problem with supporting the constitution? Why are you tired of the constitution? Is it because you would like it to be customized to your beliefs?

The removal of your religion from public property is a political thing, not an atheist thing.

But it's usually atheists who insist upon the removal. So to me, it seems that it IS an atheist thing.

Just cuz it "seems" that way to you, doesn't make it so. Too convenient to see it the way you see it.

Yep, we all have our own opinions. That's what makes things so interesting.

rubi123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But it's usually atheists who insist upon the
> removal. So to me, it seems that it IS an atheist
> thing.


I'm not exactly an activist where matters such as removal of the Ten Commandments from courthouses or removal of "God" references and prayers from state-sponsored ceremonies are concerned, primarily because I work full-time in a career in which working forty hours per week would be considered part-time employment, have two young children and a wife with a chronic illness, and serve as a member of a local school board. I have to prioritize activities because of time constraints. Still, I feel very strongly about separation of church and state and not inserting religion and deity references where they don't belong, and I'm not an atheist or even an agnostic, though I'm far from being a rabid deist.

It's NOT "an atheist thing." Even if it were, there would be nothing wrong with that except that such might indicate a lack of respect on the par of believers for the belief systems of others. Some of us who profess faith in a higher power do not feel that it's any more appropriate for our beliefs to dominate than it would be for specific declarations of the lack of existence of a higher power to be inserted in the pledge and in other public declarations, ceremonies, or whatever. Where my friends, co-workers, or anyone else on the planet are concerned, I couldn't care any less about their beliefs regarding the existence or non-existence of a God. It's a personal matter that doesn't belong in the public sector.s

^This^

Its phrase, “under God,“ was inserted into the Pledge by President Eisenhower in 1954 who, by doing so, essentially reworked it into an after-the-fact national prayer during the height of the Red Scare. This, despite the fact that the US Supreme Court had earlier ruled that requiring public school students to salute the flag was an unlawful overreach of state power.,

I get kind of tired of people like you who don’t know their history.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 01:22PM by steve benson.

I know the history and I still don't mind that "under God" is in the Pledge. Nothing about it is offensive to me.

And when Eisenhower endorsed inserting “under God” into it, he rejoiced in the prospect of requiring millions of American children to offer devotion to the Almighty.

I don’t care if you don’t think it’s wrong to insert religion into the Pledge. The High Court, in the famous “flag salute” era of the 1940s, struck down unconstitutional efforts to force Jehovah Witness students in public schools to recite it in violation of their personal religious beliefs. You're decades out of step with settled case law. Try cracking a basic high school civics textbook on this.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 01:20PM by steve benson.

I work for a public school district and every morning the students recite the Pledge of Allegiance, including "under God." No one kicks up a fuss. I've never seen a student refuse to say it, although they certainly can decline if they choose to. That is their right.

So maybe you are out of touch with reality.

Sure, it's not because students privately object to the unconstitutional reciting of a national "christian" prayer, but don't speak up because of peer pressure and because of being afraid of looking "different."

It's because you can read their minds, knowing (without asking) what they do and don't want.

Oh, wait...

Having it in their doesn't "offend" me, either. I do consider it unconstitutional, and abjectly hypocritical on the part of christians (whose own imagined leader-dude, bible Jesus, tells them that making such demonstrations in public shows them to be hypocrites).

If it doesn't matter, let's change "god" to "Allah" (which is just another word for "god"). Then let's see who gets "offended." And who then objects to government promoting religious belief unconstitutionally. That would be fun, wouldn't it?

You’re trying to avoid addressing that basic fact in any meaningful way by personally attacking those “offended” who don’t agree with your perspective – – or, better yet, lack thereof.

By the way, those kids in classrooms where they feel peer pressure to remain silent end up being represented in court by their parents or guardians, backed by amicus briefs filed in their behalf by other concerned parties.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 02:04PM by steve benson.

Roll with it. This is America.

During the early 1970s there was a kid in our home room who was a Jehovah's Witness and did not stand for the pledge . What do you think happened ? Some of the other kids gave him a lot of shit. That is what happened . The First Amendment is there it keep government out of religion and religion out of government .So I really have a hard time with "everyone is cool with it " . Yes until someone refuses to stand or recite the exact words . Then the kid gets a lot of shit just like the JW kid did on my jr high class.

Rubi123, I can give you one atheist's perspective why I'm not thrilled to have In God We Trust in pledges or on money for you to consider.

Let's say you really care about your country and respect what it stands for. Let's say you take financial dealings seriously because you expect honesty and fairness. You work hard for your money and it represents your work.

Then someone decides everyone has to say "In Daffy Duck We Trust" about your country or your money. It kind of cheapens and makes a joke of what it represent to you. A cartoon character? Really? On these things I take so seriously? You expect others to take you seriously saying you trust Daffy Duck? I'm guessing you would view having Daffy as mocking your country and legal tender. It sort of cheapens what it stands for.

Well, I view a god in the exact same category as Daffy Duck. I see a god as just as much of a cartoon character as Daffy Duck. I see no good reason to put him on money or in pledges that we probably can agree deserve respect and trust in each other.

THAT SAID, I don't make a fuss about it being on money or in pledges because religious people seem to need God in and on everything. If that will keep them happy, I'll cringe and go along with Daffy Duck. I'll save my battles for when they want to enforce what they think Daffy Duck wants me to be doing.

Your example absolutely does not resonate with me. Daffy Duck? C'mon! We KNOW Daffy Duck is made up.

But it resonates with me. I mean, God, c'mon, we KNOW it's all made up ;-)

"Our non-religious compatriots should be accorded the same respect as other minorities."

"Surveys designed to overcome the understandable reluctance to admit atheism have found that as many as 60 million Americans--a fifth of the population--are not believers." Translation: So 'atheists' have screwed with the true atheist numbers!
_____________________________________________________

These quotes should be a clue as to 'false news' from yours truly ----- mainstream media.

It is true atheists are increasing, however, it seems like this 'journalist' chooses to lump 'nones' (none religious but a majority 'believers' into the equation to make it 'false'!

Based on 2014 data (as opposed to old 2011 manipulated data): Research Center’s 2014 Religious Landscape Study found that 3.1% of American adults (opposed to 20% above) say they are atheists when asked about their religious identity, up from 1.6% in a similarly large survey in 2007.

Also, 'news flash' ----- declared atheists seem to struggle with their 'true identities' as (drum roll) 8% of those who call themselves atheists also say they believe in God or a universal spirit.

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/06/01/10-facts-about-atheists/



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 01:59PM by spiritist.

And, by the way, thanks for popping up again, since you failed to address the earlier question of how much science education you’ve had. Care to list the classes?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 02:09PM by steve benson.

“Study Contends There Are Twice as Many Atheists in America as Polls Show”
by Philip Perry
April 30, 2017

“. . . [T]he Pope . . . saying it is better to be a good atheist than a ‘fake’ Christian . . . emphasizes Catholicism’s focus on good works as the path to salvation over pure faith, as Protestants believe. Christianity is the largest world religion but not [growing] as fast as the . . . contestant, no religion, the fastest growing faith category in the world. Around 7% of the global population is atheist and if we include the non-religious, it’s 16.5%.

“A recent Gallup Poll suggests one in 10 Americans don’t believe in God, a small but significant milestone. Over one-third of millennials polled were religiously unaffiliated. On another front, according to the Pew Research Center, the number of Americans who identify as Christian dropped 8% between 2007 and 2014.

“Oxford professor Richard Dawkins is well-known for his non-belief. On this side of the pond, two researchers say, there's a stigma against atheism.

“No religious affiliation or ‘nones,’ are the second largest faith category in North America today. They’ve been growing steadily for decades now. About 25% of the entire US population are among the unaffiliated. While in the past several years, the number of atheists has doubled. Most are white, male, and highly educated. 56% are politically liberal. People of color, women, and the less educated tend to be more religious.

“Some experts say there are even more atheists that aren’t accounted for. A recent study at the University of Kentucky finds a lot of what they call ‘closet atheists.’ Researchers Will Gervais and Maxine Najle say there’s a lot of stigma surrounding atheism. Several polls have shown that people find atheists less trustworthy, even immoral. As a result, many lie to the pollster because they feel uncomfortable sharing their true feelings, Gervais and Najle say.

“Pew’s 2014 ‘Religious Landscape Study’ found that those who self-identified as atheists mostly kept it to themselves. Two-thirds said they seldom, if ever, discussed their point of view. In the same survey, 51% of Americans said they’d be less likely to support an atheist candidate for president.

“That number declined from 63% in 2007. Even so, there are no atheists in Congress today. Only one House member, Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.), is religiously unaffiliated. Perhaps even more thought provoking, a 2014 ‘Boundaries in the American Mosaic Survey,’y found that 42% of US adults said that atheists don’t share the same vision for America as they do.

“Despite the image of atheists being outspoken, a new study finds that there may be just as many ‘closeted’ ones.

“According to Gervais and Najle, atheism in the US may be as high as 26%, more than double Pew’s findings. The results of this study are being published in the journal Social Psychological and Personality Science. Pew had it at nine percent. A 2016 Gallup poll say’s 10% of Americans are atheists. But Gervais said, “We can say with a 99 percent probability that it’s higher than [11 percent].”

“He and Najle decided to use a unique method known as ‘the unmatched count technique,’ to eliminate any stigmatization from the study. They created a survey and gave it to 2,000 US adults. These were two nationally representative samples. Rather than come right out and ask the respondent their beliefs, participants were given a list of statements. These included, ‘I have a dishwasher in my kitchen,’ ‘I am a vegetarian,’ ‘I enjoy modern art,’ and ‘I own a dog.’ One group however confronted an additional statement, ‘I believe in God.’y

“Each participant wrote down the number of statements that were true for them. Since both groups had around the same number of dog owners and vegetarians, the researchers could estimate how many didn’t believe in God. In this way, by taking off the social pressure, they arrived at a more accurate number, Gervais and Najle argue.

“On the other hand, the director of Pew’s religion polling efforts Greg Smith, was skeptical of the findings. ‘I would be very reluctant to conclude that phone surveys like ours are underestimating the share the public who are atheists to that kind of magnitude,’ he said.

“A lack of faith has been hard to study. Besides the stigma, the variety of labels and categories has expanded over time. They sometimes identify as agnostic, a skeptic, undecided, non-affiliated, or even a humanist—those who are ‘good without God.’ Then there is a segment who simply refuse to be labeled. This wide differentiation may obfuscate ‘nones’ actual numbers.

“Another issue that might make them less visible is that there is no traditional, overarching institution to organize, cater to, and represent atheists. The Center for Inquiry and the Richard Dawkins Foundation may be changing that. Stephanie Guttormson is the operations manager for the latter. She told ‘National Geographic,’ ‘Organizing atheists is like herding cats.’ But she added, ‘Lots of cats have found their way into the “meowry.”’

“There are websites, agnostic and atheist discussion boards, and Meetups for those who are on the skeptical side of things. There’s even a place for those who would like to continue taking part in some kind of ritual, without receiving dogma.”



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2018 03:19PM by steve benson.

Eric, you’ve actually touched on the subject the way that I see it. You’d think that believers would be too busy living their own faiths to even bother with how others see things.

Usually when people get all hot and bothered about a thing, it’s because they fear it. Your friend’s wife is the perfect example. Her fear is that your influence converted her husband into a non-believer.

People tend to react as though non-belief is contagious. By attacking those of us who see things differently than they do, they seem to feel that it inoculates themselves against this from happening.

First of all, thanks Steve for sharing these interesting articles.

The subject of disliking or even hating atheists brings up the question of how much easier it is for people to one, dislike and/or fear what is different from themselves rather than taking the time and energy to investigate it and two, get their opinions from "others", whether that other is a pope, a so-called prophet or an esteemed family member or friend.

Why think for yourself when others can do it for you? Plus, to go against the norm or the grain of your culture is frightening and some humans will never muster the courage to go there.

Those things being said, I am pleasantly surprised and pleased the number of people in America who are abandoning or questioning the subject of religion in recent years. The progress is encouraging.

More than ever atheism is a word people here know the meaning of!

Like it!

I have had that urge, to rip out their brain, especially among my TBM family members. They don't deserve to have one.

And, with my encroaching arthritis and wrinkles, I'm plain running out of time for them to get with the right program.

steve benson Wrote:
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> n/t

Is it really necessary for the two sides to disparage each other so blatantly?

They don't dislike them. They mistrust them more than any other demographic. Less than rapists.
Why identify yourself with something that is just a reaction to an absurd, barbaric idea?
It's like me going around after 6yo identifying myself as an Anti-Santa Clausist and going around pissing all over kids who still believed in Santa Claus.
Not all people who disagree with you are crazy.
I'm pretty sure we're on the same side bro.
Dunno why you've got it out for me.
I'm one of the good guys.

> It's like me going around after 6yo identifying
> myself as an Anti-Santa Clausist and going around
> pissing all over kids who still believed in Santa
> Claus.


Except not too many kids who believe in Santa go around harming, lynching etc others who don't.

when I came to this board, I was shocked by how many atheists there were having been raised to believe they are evil. I decided to ask what atheists believe in and I got treated SO WELL and the answers I received were GREAT. I find the atheists to be much more respectful than I do the Christians. I don't know what I am, but I don't consider myself Christian anymore. I don't fit agnostic either. I just don't worry about it.

But the atheists have always been nothing but respectful to me on this board and they gained my respect immediately that first time I asked questions.

The last thing I ever wanted to be was an atheist. But I couldn’t run away from it anymore, as it’s where all of my studying kept leading me.

Now I’ve reached the point where I’m just not going to worry about it anymore. No one knows the answer anyway.