The church is going to hit diminishing returns with all these temples. Too many will cheapen the holy image of the temple. They are expensive and with no growth they really aren't bringing in more tithing by building more. The result is just going to be more expense. Also, it would be embarrassing to have to sell a temple and these buildings would be hard to sell because the layout really serves no purpose other than the crazy rituals that go on in them. I just see it all as waste. I really don't see the return on investment. I would if the membership numbers went up by building them.

"that's where the money is" -- Willie Sutton

To a point. Sure you have a temple close by you can brow beat the membership into keeping a current recommend and that of course brings in the tithing money. But unless you are growing your membership with born in church or converts there are only so many you can brow beat. I think the church is falling into the same trap that restaurants and stores fall into. The more the better but when you have too many you end up having to close some locations or the expense of expansion bankrupts you and the whole chain goes out of business. The church in the past has gotten itself into debt by building too many buildings. This happened in the 1950's. There church was over $30 million in debt. They figured if they built better meeting houses it would attract new converts. It didn't work. Because of the debt the church stopped making it's financial statements public.

I suspect that building temples is one of the ways the GAs siphon the tax-free tithing into their own for-profit businesses. Who owns the construction companies that go around building these structures?

So, the equivalent of insiders selling off their company stock before their business goes belly up. Get while the getting is good.

I can see that. They usually use Utah contractors and they buy from the same suppliers. The thing is after everyone skims the profits off the bridge to nowhere you have a white elephant and you get too many well it kind of hurts the holy image. No holy image you have nothing to sell.

I know at least two families that have gotten filthy rich off church projects. They have close ties to the 15 (one’s currently a mission president and one is a GA 70), but they aren’t family. I’ve heard them bitch about the church awarding more and more projects to gentile contractors...especially all the BYU construction. Some of the largest Utah contractors working these projects are now run by apostates...children of TBM parents that started the companies.

praydude Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I suspect that building temples is one of the ways
> the GAs siphon the tax-free tithing into their own
> for-profit businesses. Who owns the construction
> companies that go around building these
> structures?

This has become my opinion as well...what (I think) is going on is legal money laundering.

They’re drinking their own Kool Aid. They’re projecting enough tithing revenue to support these temples as well as the renovations of existing temples.

Or they’re trying to precipitate a crisis so that they can do some restructuring. But I think they’re on the train to crazy town.

Each temple is a prime real estate holding. The land is in a major metropolitan area, or the best lot in a new development. Temples are most often on rising ground, and on lots with amazing views.

I don't think modern temples are as expensive to build as a hotel or motel. They have been having troubles, lately, with some of the cheap materials they use on the facades. The decor is probably a lot less expensive than what they use in casinos. The labor is very cheap, and contracted out to prominent family members. These contractors use "work missionaries" and local laborers, who are willing to work for low wages or no wages at all. The cleaning and grounds maintenance is done by member-slaves. The entire operation is tax-free! Imagine paying zero property tax on prime view residential real estate, and on central city property in NY, Philadelphia, Washington DC, etc.

Like McDonald's, the main value is in those key corner lots in every city and suburb in America. Included with each temple is a massive parking lot--way larger than ever would be needed, even in the imagination--which adds more land.

I think temples are a garish symbol of LDS. Inc. power and greed. Mormons take great materialistic pride on owning temples "all over the world." No, building temples is not a Christ-like endeavor. Neither are the rituals for the dead. Neither is taking people's money under false pretenses.

Come on! They build them to stand out as much as possible! The bigger and uglier the better, the more the better! Unlike money paid for public advertising and PR, temples are tax-exempt!

They could call them McTemples!

They are part of one big franchising operation erecting shrines to Mormon capitalism.

A hedge against inflation. Real estate investments all.

The church profits by building them, moreso than the dwindling membership.

BINGO !!!

Yeah I get all that and the dirt is worth more than the building itself. If the location is valuable enough the temple meets the wrecking ball if the property is ever sold. The thing is let's say Jesus don't show up and let's move 50 to 100 years forward. Is the church going to have several hundred temples all over the world pristinely maintained or are some going to fall into disrepair and what is the attitude towards them then? They certainly aren't going to be anything that special. People are going to get bored of temples.

LDS,Inc. has PR prophecy at the ready for any probability. If the temples fall into disrepair it is the fault of the unworthy, lazy members or the "Sign Of The Times" prophecies coming true. Mormons always have the persecution complex that elevates them to the status of martyrs.

If they decide to sell them down the road for profit it is simply modern day revelation from God. They will declare it was God's plan all along to insure that God's church is fiscally sound. They might just need a little tweaking to remodel and turn them into mega churches for the Evangelical movement.

Whatever happens, it will be God's will with the prophet proclaiming he knew all along just what would happen through God's divine revelations.

For example Oklahoma City...

https://ldschurchtemples.org/oklahomacity/construction/images/oklahoma-city-mormon-temple-1509853044.jpg


https://ldschurchtemples.org/oklahomacity/construction/images/oklahoma-city-mormon-temple-1509853038.jpg

Stripped down to framing:
https://ldschurchtemples.org/oklahomacity/construction/images/oklahoma-city-mormon-temple-1513611624.jpg

Lots of costs and money flowing to Utah (TBM Mormon, I'm sure) businesses going thousands of miles away to get the contracts (over local builders who could probably do it for less)...
https://ldschurchtemples.org/oklahomacity/construction/images/oklahoma-city-mormon-temple-1509030746.jpg

Some temples have been built on donated land, but the church has paid a lot for some temple lots. Then they build a $30 million temple that is worthless as a real estate holding, so all they really have is the land that they essentially paid $5 million+/acre for. Even if the land appreciates at 10%/yr., they don’t break even for ~20 years. They could do far better just investing in raw land (FL), or stocks, or other for-profit businesses. There has to be some other motivation behind temple building.

Shinehahbeam Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Some temples have been built on donated land, but
> the church has paid a lot for some temple lots.
> Then they build a $30 million temple that is
> worthless as a real estate holding, so all they
> really have is the land that they essentially paid
> $5 million+/acre for. Even if the land
> appreciates at 10%/yr., they don’t break even
> for ~20 years. They could do far better just
> investing in raw land (FL), or stocks, or other
> for-profit businesses. There has to be some other
> motivation behind temple building.

Perhaps the passive aggressiveness of the locals continuing to pay tithing for the temple privilege is the motivation.

In the UK (and possibly other countries), LDS temples are not exempt from property taxes, because they do not meet the definition of "public place of worship" (meetinghouses do qualify).

The Great and Spacious Real-estate Investment. Lehi saw this in a dream.

A fictional character presaged their modus operandi in filling the whole earth with "The Gospel" by investing in prime real-estate.

Per another thread - I think this is part of a reactivation tactic - go after those members that have quit ChurchCo for one reason or another and kindle that tender testimonkey again. I think they'll get a lot of fence sitters and/or mixed couples e.g. one believing spouse/one not or never mo, etc. back into paying, praying and obeying.

I was such a fence sitter.

After 15 plus years, my best friend decided to go to the temple after years of being the active half of a part member family.

She admitted it was very strange, but pushed me to go back to the temple. I'd gone twice in 1984. This was 2004.

She pushed me to just talk to the bishop. She thought he'd help me get my testimony back, but he was just confused about why I was there if I didn't believe.

I dusted off the old Book of Mormon and was horrified about what I read. 90% of the church had been sitting on my shelf and down it all came.

Not exactly what my friend was hoping for.

A comment I overheard at work by a believing mormon was "we will drive by the temple daily and be continually reminded of our covenants and responsibilities."

"A comment I overheard at work by a believing mormon was "we will drive by the temple daily and be continually reminded of our covenants and responsibilities."

Much like the massive Big Brother portraits of Lenin and Stalin or the Kim family in North Korea--reminders that you don't belong to yourself, you belong to the Party.

This is a last ditch effort to make the best of a bad situation because deep down the Mormons know, "The jig is up!"

There seems to be plenty of desperation to go around.

Lowering missionary age.
Quitting BSA.
Fessing up to the rock in the hat.

The buildings are a cost of doing business. The tithing spikes and PR "value" are the short-term play and the land is the long-term play.

I have a buddy that used to be an executive at one of the larger and more prominent national storage unit rental companies. He explained to me that as good as the rental income was, the land holdings were the much more valuable assets over time and really drove the company's focus. "We are a real estate company first," he said.

I think it's safe to say that the LDS Church is a real estate company first.

They're all set to become waste management centers. Imagine garbage trucks backing up to the front doors and dumping its load! Then they're all set to sort trash in the celestial room :D

Follow the money!

Who are the contractors building and maintaining the buildings and is there a money trail back to GAs or their friends and relations, etc? Those are the kinds of things I'd look into.

Posted this elsewhere in the thread, but this will give you an idea:

https://ldschurchtemples.org/oklahomacity/construction/images/oklahoma-city-mormon-temple-1509030746.jpg

Tax-free real estate investment.

It's extremely odd. The church is building temples at a manic pace that is out of touch with reality.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/05/2018 11:19PM by summer.

Im just glad I am no longer funding the foolish

All this is sheer speculation, so I'll speculate freely.

First, I suspect this is a way to church $$$ among crony insiders: realtors, suppliers, contractors. After that, what does this accomplish?

Long-term, nothing as WE know, but what do the LDS leadership know--or HOPE for? I suspect this is a kind of "If we build it (temples), they (more members) will come" gambit, a blind-faith optimism that the appeal (ahem!) of the temples will result in less inactivity among the membership, and perhaps more converts. In an obtuse way, it suggests that the highest leadership actually does believe the church is true.

So keep posting those pictures of happy brides in front of temples, folks, even though we know that dress was not worn at the actual ceremony. Keep pumping the pretty image in front of the ugly buildings. :-<

does the church get loans against property to leverage business expenditures or more profitable investment?

are they building these buildings to have an expense account access route plan through members (paying tithe) (getting retrained to "keep command: pay tithe )

but, building in prime land, so the property alone could have a mortgage against it? or be an asset used in accounting "assets/valuables" which to take other business losses against or loans against?

this is just a business? the people are profit? the people are the means to a service based profit endeavor> the large business holdings managers or trustees controlling the funds endeavors explore personal profit from these services? like the marketing, the real estate sales, the ? each mark up profit or transaction generated by funds invested puts money into endeavors in the chain? really? its just a business where hawks prey on bunnies? oh wait sheepies? bunnies are more defenseless

and when you wake up or complain you're not a quiet bunny they'll take your temple recommend away or talk about you in ward counsel meetings

its about profit through preying upon others (the members) financially grooming shepherding life style input to invest and build investments a corporation purchases (despite mammon or filthy lucre talks that must be for the members/bunnies not the hawks)

People, its about making money off Temple recommends. If it was about making money off construction, they'd stop putting 4 wards in a building and build three more warehouses.

They are not doing that.

If temple ordinances are as critical as the church teaches, then temples should be plentiful and convenient. It shouldn't be a hardship to get to a temple. It shouldn't require international or even interstate travel. Temples should be as common as stake centers. But they aren't (even with a couple of decades playing catch up) which says a lot about how unimportant temples actually are.

Once again cost-benefit ratio

Temples & 'forever families' appeal to women, Men dream of "Eternal Sex" with (younger, sexy) women. I believe young men Tolerate going, older go because nothing better to do.

I also believe more women attend temple.

Just this week, a long-time married TBM friend told me that his TBM wife put a BIG-TIME KIBOSH on his doubts, telling him in no uncertain terms that if he followed thru on his doubts, marriage & access to family OVER..
Yes, that's how Women Rule in Morland.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/06/2018 02:11PM by GNPE.

I know women like that, but she shouldn't have control over how much access he has to family, although women always get the most time with kids and it shouldn't be that way. Men should have just as much right to kids as women do.

Temples are getting to be as plentiful as stake centers when I was a kid. I attended a ward building, not a stake center, when I was growing up, as did my ex. We had 3 stake centers in Brigham. The rest were chapels. When you go to SLC from here, you see temples all over in SLC.

And, yes, I do believe more women attend the temple than men, except when I was with my ex. ha ha ha I never went.

The temple thing makes sense to me. It's a game they play with their members. My family won't stop talking about the temple in Russia and how this is a proof that the church is extremely growing. Morg has plenty of money....they can't spend it all on shopping malls

Gotta keep up the appearance of growth...

They watched 'Field of Dreams' one too many times.

Honestly if they were smart they'd stop doubling down on the old school tactics of building edifices and start reaching out to the world in a way that is actually respectable and useful. could you imagine if they pushed for more Deseret Industry stores, started homeless shelters, sent kids on missions where they actually go in and help communities instead of getting doors slammed in their faces all day.

It wouldn't even be abandoning their stated mission. I don't know how many times I've been told in church that I was supposed to live a christ-like life to be an example to others. That if I do so, they'd be interested in the gospel.

Maybe they don't really believe that though.

Fancy buildings and secret handshakes are way cooler.

They can turn them into frat house buildings where crazy parties and initiations take place.