(A quote from Bart Simpson, FYI)

koriwhore inspired me to have a chat with the Mormon missionaries online. You see, I have a few questions about Mormon theology that I've been wondering about.

It starts from the premise that, as I've heard it said, "As man is, God once was. As God is, man may become."

My questions are these:

Was God once a man? Who is he? Is he Adam? (I think I heard that once but I'm not sure.)

If God was once a man, who was his God? Is there like a line of God-ancestors going back to the beginning of time? Who was the first God and where did he come from? Is there anything special about him? Where is he now?

Is our God the creator of the universe? If not, where did he come from? And if so, how do humans ever become that in a universe that's already created?

If man eventually obtains godhood, and then gets his own planet populated with his descendants (did I get that right?), then what happens when his first-generation children achieve godhood too? Do they take all his grandchildren and great-grandchildren (etc., etc.) to go live on their planets instead? Then does the previous God's planet become all lonely and desolate? Is there a celestial nursing home for him to go kick around in and grouse about how his grandchildren are too busy cramming for their godhood finals to come visit? (I'm being a little facetious here, but only a little.)

Anyway, here's the chat transcript. I don't feel like I got straight answers to my initial questions, so I couldn't really build on them.

Hi Sarah,
Thank you for your interest in chatting with a member of the Church. What would you like to talk about?

A representative will join the chat once you send a message.
Sarah 4:16 PM
I would like to understand the Mormon concept of God.
Now chatting with: Erin and Kiana
Erin 4:16 PM
Great we'd love to answer any questions you have! We believe that God is our Father in Heaven. That he created us and loves us very much.

Erin 4:17 PM
What is your concept of God?

Sarah 4:17 PM
I agree with that
Sarah 4:18 PM
I would like to understand more
Sarah 4:18 PM
I was told that Mormons believe that God was once man, is that correct?
Erin 4:19 PM
We believe that God has a perfected body of flesh and bone.

Sarah 4:19 PM
Perfected how?
Erin 4:20 PM
Perfected as in, unlike our bodies that grow old and die and can get injured, His is an immortal being.

Erin 4:21 PM
*He is an immortal being

Erin 4:21 PM
Does that make since?

Sarah 4:22 PM
So was He born into a physical body just like we all are?
Kiana 4:24 PM
We are not too sure, there is no scriptural doctrine on this subject. but we do know that we were created in the image of God, and our purpose is to return back to live with Him

Sarah 4:25 PM
Do humans become gods?
Erin 4:25 PM
Because Jesus Christ was resurrected and has a perfect body, He provided a way for us to also be resurrected after we die. Matthew 5:48 Jesus says, "Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect."

Kiana 4:28 PM
God has a plan for us, and desires us to return to live in His presence and become as He is

Kiana 4:41 PM
Are you still there?

Sarah 4:42 PM
Yes. I thought Erin was typing something.
Erin 4:42 PM
Whoops sorry about that.

Erin 4:43 PM
Do you have any other questions we can help answer?

Sarah 4:45 PM
What does it mean to be with God? In the afterlife I guess?
Erin 4:45 PM
It means that we get to live with Him in His Kingdom in Heaven. We call this eternal life

Sarah 4:47 PM
Where is that?
Kiana 4:47 PM
We believe God dwells in what we call the celestial kingdom, and that is where we want to be.

Sarah 4:49 PM
Is it a physical place?
Kiana 4:49 PM
Here is a link to a video that helps explain more about the plan that God has for us. We'd love to invite you to watch it ! Let us know what you think :)

Erin 4:49 PM
Yes it is a physical place

Kiana 4:50 PM
https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2011-06-06-our-eternal-life?lang=eng
Sarah 4:51 PM
Do we know where it is?

It's like trying to catch a greased pig. All they know is the programming in their heads. And the programming is very powerful.

Are they programmed to try to sound like mainstream Christians? I'm getting that impression.

There is some thinking among exmos that the Mormon church may be trying to appear more mainstream Christian lately. I agree with Amyjo that their answers may be scripted to some extent.

They read to you from a carefully crafted script.

Whatever you ask, if it isn't in the script or "off topic," they will let you know by their non-answers.

You can learn more about Moism here than you'll learn from them.

Here's the rest of the chat in case anyone's interested.

Erin 4:52 PM
No we don't know exactly where it is but we know that God has prepared it for us and we trust in faith that we can return there one day. Through Jesus Christ we can make it home to our Father in Heaven.

Sarah 4:55 PM
You say "return"? Did we come from there?
Erin 4:55 PM
We believe we lived with God as spirits before we came to earth. After we die we return back to His presence.

Erin 4:56 PM
Did you have a chance to watch that video that Kiana sent? It explains it pretty well

Sarah 4:57 PM
Wait, I'm confused. We live as spirits before and after life, but God is flesh and bone?
Erin 4:57 PM
After we die we are separated from our bodies for a period of time, but then our body and spirit are brought back together but this time our body is a perfect body of flesh and bone like God's body.

Erin 5:00 PM
Does that explain it better?

Sarah 5:02 PM
I can't really say that I understand it, but I guess that's pretty normal when it comes to the nature of God and man.
Erin 5:02 PM
What made you interested in learning more about our beliefs?

Sarah 5:03 PM
A Mormon friend once told me that Mormons believe in becoming gods themselves, so I was curious. I didn't ask her much about it at the time but I wondered.
Erin 5:04 PM
Many members of our faith come to this conclusion that we will be like Him since our bodies will be like Him and we are commanded to be perfect one day like Him. But yeah there is no scriptural back up on that one. Do you have any other questions about our faith?

Sarah 5:07 PM
What do you believe about Jesus?
Erin 5:08 PM
We believe that Jesus is God's Son. He came down to earth as a perfect man and suffered for our sins and pains. He was killed but overcame death and was resurrected 3 days later. He is the person we turn to for comfort and peace since He felt everything we go through in life.

Erin 5:09 PM
He loves us very much and we love Him because of His great sacrifice for us.

Sarah 5:10 PM
Do you believe in the Trinity?
Erin 5:10 PM
We believe in the Godhead. This means that we believe in God--our Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Ghost. They work together in unity with one purpose.

Erin 5:12 PM
Here is one of my favorite videos about our belief's on Jesus Christ: https://www.lds.org/media-library/video/2018-03-0100-because-of-him-easter-2018-mormonorg?lang=eng

Sarah 5:15 PM
Thank you. I will watch the videos. I need to get going but I appreciate your taking the time to chat with me.
Erin 5:16 PM
Yeah of course! If you have any other questions you can text me at XXX-XXX-XXXX. Have a great day!

You got it all right.

When I was kid in the fifties and sixties we heard non-stop from the pulpit the "As man is God once was, as God is man may become." We were taught we could become gods and have our own planets.

A few decades ago the Mormon prophet Gordon Hickley was asked about this on a national television interview and his only reply was, "I don't know that we teach that."

It was taught always and was the most exciting part of being Mormon known as "eternal progression." Hinkley's carefully worded denial of it in the interview was shocking. He knew how crazy it would sound to the rest of the world I suppose and opted to deny instead.

The missionaries you are talking to are 18 to 22 year olds who have lived sheltered mormon lives of indoctrination and obedience. They have no idea about any of this, but really don't care. They are trained to do what they are told and not to question. Your exchange with them was very typical.

They are not there to answer your questions. They are there to get their message across to you.

In Mormonism a technique is often used to accomplish this: "Answer the question the investigator *should* have asked, not the question they actually asked." This is a way to lead you to certain conclusions, not supply you with honest answers.

Brigham Young started the God was Adam thing I believe. That is another hot potato that the missionaries have no clue about. They just know to change the subject.

The 50s and 60s were heady times for 'The Mysteries!"

We discussed it all in Seminary (me: 4 years, '58-'62), in great detail!

One of my favorite lines of inquiry had to do with Glory... Remember when the competing plans for Elohim's kids were presented, with Lucifer saying, "I'll save them all, but I get the Glory" and Jesus countered with, "I'll pay the price so that they can have Free Agency and still be saved, and the glory be thine."

"Glory" was said to serve the same purpose money, a means for keeping score. The more you had, the higher your ranking. Remember, we're talking immortals who were omnipotent and omniscient! There wasn't anything that one ghawd had that another ghawd couldn't. So "Glory" was the medium that allowed them to keep score.

I can go about The Mysteries for days on end!!

what material they have to work with. They might make good lawyers some day, working on lost-cause cases.

LadyNeverMo (and others), try throwing the Christian Science approach to working the "man in image and likeness of God" Scripture. They take the polar opposite, citing John 4:24 prooftext, "God is [a] spirit." (This is the conversation Christ had with the Samaritan woman at the well.)

Christian Science holds that 1) God is Spirit, and 2) Man is made in his image and likeness, therefore, 3) man is pure spirit--immaterial and incorporeal. How to explain our physical bodies, then? All materiality (from Higgs-Boson particles to galaxies and black holes, are non-existent--created by the "false testimony" of material senses!

So, LDS says since man is made of matter, so is God (in exalted state). CS states that since God is spirit, man's essence is also spirit.

Here's where both fail: Mankind is image, not the same substance or "stuff" which God is. You look at your image in a mirror, and you see your likeness, but that does not mean that "thing" in the mirror is comprised of bodily tissue.

Maybe I'll call the missionaries and try the Christian Science (mis)interpretation on them!

You have a good grasp of CS -- do you have history with it? I grew up in it, as I said in another thread. Don't know if you saw it or not.

I'd love to see the chat transcript if you try that approach with the missionaries!

And I did get that info in your thread about "Donna." So here goes.

I'm kind of a refugee here, especially since the Ex-CS site ("Christian Way"--ever see it?) went to archive status. I'm especially interested in LDS because of a literary project I'm deeply immersed in.

My late mother was a Teacher ("C.S.B."), as is my older sister. We have an older atheist brother, whereas I'm a born-again Christian. We're all in our 70s. I grew up in the "radical reliance" school of CS.

So yes, I am knowledgeable on CS, and now, because of the book, LDS. Incidentally, a Mormon Navy lieutenant helped get me out of CS. We were discussing religion, and as he talked about an American "prophet" who "restored original, but lost, Christianity," and gave us sacred writings with a new/recovered gospel, I started to see similarities with Mary Baker Eddy, CS, and "Science & Health." There was much, much more to it, but that gives you some idea of how things started with me.

Incidentally, I live less than a mile from the Mother Church, so if you should live near, or happen to visit, Beantown, I'd be delighted to meet up with you in person.

It's more of a couplet than anything else.

Chatting with newbie mishies is fun! The poor souls don't know thing one about theology, religion, or the world in general asid from what they picked up in Sunday school and canned "seminary" lessons. Also, no real communiacation skills or meaningful training. Just "here's the computer, click here to get started, and remember your training (which isn't actual training)!" It could be hours of fun if they didn't have to drop the conversation after a few minutes!