And the Chinese have adopted the Western business suit along with other items of clothing. Fashion borrows from other cultures all the time. I've worn a traditional Chinese top and a beautiful Indonesian dress in the past.
Sheesh. People can wear whatever they want to. The folks complaining about her wearing this dress are as ridiculous as someone saying a Chinese person in the US can't wear a "western" wedding dress. Or little black dress on a night out.
I look forward to the day petty tribal nonsense can be put to rest.
I have worn a Vietnamese Ao Dai. None of my in-laws seemed to be offended.
However, as a Scotsman I do find myself offended when gentlemen at the typical "renaissance festivals" here in the US culturaly appropriate Scotland, and wear what amounts to a poorly made tartan skirt, and think it is a kilt. ;o)
The dress is beautiful and looked great. I see nothing wrong with it at all. However, if you choose to put yourself out there on social media, expect to be judged.
None of the articles says that there is a something special that this dress is appropriate for only certain women. Maybe someone here can explain further. For example I get that it is totally inappropriate to wear an American Indian Headress as it is something that is not worn by just anyone in their culture. Lacking that, I'd only criticize her for the fake prayer pose. Good for her to take the opportunity now to learn more about the dress she bought. Maybe we can all learn from her faux pas -- oops I'm not French, can I use that term?
I can't help wondering if that's what prompted the criticism. Did she even say anything at first, besides "PROM"? And why are only the girls bowing with hands together? No idea what the boys are doing.
In a way, you are quite correct: the girl's critics come from the extreme side of a belief system.
Regarding the Halloween naysayers, it's the extreme Christian side, fearing exposure of their children to the Satanic and the occult. (As a Christian, I am very embarrassed by that element.)
The people who jumped on this girl are the extreme side of the Social Justice belief system, who hold that white college kids should not wear sombreros on Cinko di Mayo-aise.
Speaking of "Social Justice," a happy May Day to all you Socialists out there, as we celebrate the 100 (or so) millions exterminated in the name of the People. (How's that for hijacking a thread?)
raisedbyjackmormons Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > I don't care if certain people are offended by > stuff like this. Be offended all freaking day > long. Be offended all year. No one cares.
Try attending a university in a major US city such as NY. You would be run out of the classroom for defending this.
I had a student in one of my ancient history classes object to the use of the word, "barbarian". She didn't think it was "nice" to call people that. The problem is that she is not unusual but more and more becoming the norm.
notmonotloggedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > raisedbyjackmormons Wrote: > -------------------------------------------------- You would be run out of the classroom for > defending this. > > I had a student in one of my ancient history > classes object to the use of the word, > "barbarian"... The problem is that she is not > unusual but more and more becoming the norm.
Problem is, a lot of the faculty think this way. Taking politically incorrect positions or speech can get damage her grades. In a climate of grade inflation, a C is very damning. Conform to the groupthink--OR ELSE!
notmonotloggedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Try attending a university in a major US city such > as NY. You would be run out of the classroom for > defending this.
Gee, that's funny. I attended a university in a major US city (Los Angeles). Never got run out of any classrooms for any such thing.
My son is attending a university in a major US city right now. He reports no such actions.
Kinda makes me wonder how many universities you've attended in major US cities, and when...?
And I currently teach at a college in upstate NY. You may not be very familiar with the current state of today's "higher education". Those with a conservative bent are derided and belittled in the classroom.
It doesn't take much to understand this.
Although you might be blind to it if you are uber-liberal.
notmonotloggedin Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Those with a > conservative bent are derided and belittled in the > classroom. > It doesn't take much to understand this.
You're right, it doesn't. Have you considered that if such derision and belittlement occurs, it's because of the content of the ideas offered, and not "ideological?" Of course you haven't. Which is one reason there's criticism.
> Although you might be blind to it if you are > uber-liberal.
You can criticize/belittle "uber-liberal" ideas if you want (and even in universities! How about that!). Open/honest debate is healthy. You just don't seem to like it when your ideas get criticized. Oh, well.
multiply their intensity at least 10 fold and that is what one is subjected to in a humanities class when you don't follow the extreme political views of today's uber politics.
"Barbarians" is a perfectly acceptable term to use in the study of ancient history.
When was the last time you heard of the indigenous people of America being referred to as savages?
As I said below, the context is that of understanding that those labeled as barbarian were not any such thing, and then to continue to refer to them as barbarian is horribly offensive.
The problem with railing against the "extreme political view of today's uber politics" is that you do a disservice to the very valuable cultural gains that have come at such a price. There are words which have historical context and are horrible. And there is little reason to use the word and a lot of reason to describe why the attitude that birthed the word is wrong. That is the only context which I believe matters.
Regardless this is just a microcosm of a larger issue. Sensitivity isn't extreme by nature and yet those who would ask for it are labeled extreme.
Thank you for being the lone voice of decency on this thread.
Mormonism is so traumatizing, but as is the case with many abused people I see on this board many ignorant and uncaring posts.
Abuse is about maintaining power imbalances. Ex-Mormons are here on this board to recover from the spiritual and social abuse we endure(d) in the church. Why then can we not show the same compassion for those who have also been traumatised and abused in different ways?
In a perfect world we would not have racism or colonialism but *we don't live in such a world*. Yes, globalisation (which includes exchange and adoption of knowledge, technology, culture, and crops) has been going on for millennia, but in today's crowded, hyper-connected world respect for others is paramount if we are to have a chance of advancing peace and prosperity when unprecedented, unsustainable inequality and injustice threaten.
Cultural appropriation is not about cultural selfishness or people inventing controversy for no reason. Cultural exchange, admiration and ultimately blending in the long arc of history are not inherently offensive or problematic, in fact they promote peace and progress.
Cultural appropriation is when a group/tribe/industry/person with more structural power (i.e. social capital, wealth, historical advantage, legal privilege etc.) wears or performs the culture of a marginalised/abused or otherwise marginalised or oppressed group to increase their own wealth (selling products) of social capital (to look cool).
Black Americans have lived through 400+ years of hell in America and yet they produced incredible totally new art, music and fashions despite all their suffering and marginalisation. White people have copied everything and taken not only the credit (the cool factor) but also gotten wealthy selling black music and fashion with a white face.
The type of cultural appropriation that people are angry about is basically this: people with more taking from people who have less without crediting or lifting up the people who produced these cultural goods in the first place.
We had long hair (both sexes), often went barefoot, wore beads, jeans, and tie-dyed stuff. And participated in anti-war riots in our free time. Toilet-papered the mayor's car once, too. I don't remember what he did to deserve it, but it was fun.
The profs didn't care as long as we did our homework, participated in class, and did well on tests. We did. I got a phenomenal education there, and paid as I went. NO student debt. I had survivor's Social Security benefits from my deceased father - and that was enough for tuition, dorm fees, and books. I dimly remember having $34 "spending money" each month. It was enough to have plenty of fun, back then.
I attended the University of Colorado in the 70s, also on SS survivor's benefits. Even though I was out of state there, the benefits paid a substantial portion of my bills.
CU is a notoriously liberal school, but there were still many conservatives attending. A number of them gravitated to the business school or the economics program. CU also had ROTC programs, and the federal agencies that require clearances recruited there. At the time the school was second only to the service academies in producing future astronauts.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that even schools with a liberal reputation attract all kinds of students. And we all got along just fine.
You know, the silly thing about that is that it was meant to be offensive. Greeks or Romans labeled these groups barbarians because they weren't as civilized as they were. In addition, in a history class, wouldn't it be much more historical as well as respectful to just call them what they really were? Celts, Berbers, Gauls, and the like were not barbarians.
In the context of ancient history, barbarian is a perfectly acceptable word. I don't know how much history you know, but a lot of what happened wasn't nice.
zarahemlatowndrunk Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > In the context of ancient history, barbarian is a > perfectly acceptable word.
If your goal is to explain that the word has always been a racist pejorative that doesn't lend any context at all to a historical discussion than fine use the word.
> I don't know how much > history you know, but a lot of what happened > wasn't nice.
Yes but posthumously discrediting entire cultures today by continuing to use the term is plain wrong, which is what I consider not nice.
At the risk of a #MeToo attack, that girl is a knockout! I hope she doesn't end up wasting part of her life going on a mission and then return home to become a Mo Stepford wife.
Risking some backlash. When that girl bought that dress and decided to wear it, did she ask herself whether or not it would be appropriate? I'm not saying that it was inappropriate but I wonder if she was ignorant to the question.
The reason I ask is that sometimes we ridicule the extremes that we see when we try and shake some of our more undesirable societal attitudes. Without recognizing that sometimes extremes are what prove to be the impetus for change.
Hahaha!! I wore the same thing, only it was a black one with phoenixes and dragons that my dad bought me in San Francisco. I'm so glad I wore it before this..."climate". It was beautiful and I felt true to myself and my love of Asian cultures.
So the haters bashing her are in effect saying....the person who sold the dress to the thrift shop had no right to either. I hope this girl wears it to the prom and fuck the haters.
No doubt the 'offended' need to run quickly to their respective 'safe places' and get counseling, sip hot chocolate, and color in coloring books. Stupid fems. CHRIST I hate SJWs.
The whole mormon garment thing is attempts to control attack and minimizing womens beauty and their access to displaying beauty to themselves and others, minimizing their feelings of beauty sprayingjudgementas if extinguishing them with a dogmatic fire extinguisher as ward leaders try to hose down their beautiful looks with religious contemptuous voices calling displays of womens beauty sans child bearing wrong sans baby in her arms.
Why is it the only female beauty they'll promote sometimes is pregnant (wearing garments) (waiting in lines)
Don't you resent that? Here's someone e that tries to look beautiful and the church hoses them down
Members of the church dogmatically assert their dominance over female beauty <sans pregnancy wearing garments for maternity> see someonetrying to be beautiful? Hose them down gossip close them down, every time
You should meet my brother. Everyday he d like to see young women dress like they were middle aged. Gawd he gave me grief [back in the day]
Possibly some Mormons were upset by the slit up the side of the dress, but I'm not aware of that issue in any discussion. Not that I'm following it much. The complaint is over this white girl "appropriating" Chinese culture.
I believe President Xi wore a business suit on his trip to the US. I was once served by a white guy at a Korean restaurant; should I have insisted upon a Korean waiter? "Cultural appropriation," like racism, is something only white folk are capable of. I wish I could laugh at the SJWs' excess, but they are so obnoxiously strident, and all too often, influential.
I recently attended an event in which a Vietnamese coworker was sworn in as a U.S. citizen. Two of his nieces (ages 6 and 8 approximately) that attended were wearing traditional Vietnamese dresses that their mother had made for them. When I told them how beautiful they looked they said that they really were less than excited to be wearing them and that it was totally mom's idea. It was so funny and so cute.
In the article the young woman is totally motivated by the appeal of the dress. I think it's an instance of honoring a culture for its innate beauty. Nobody owns culture or is its official arbiter. Culture flows like water.
People need to just shut up over this "cultural appropriation" thing. Every culture is influenced by and adapts customs from the other cultures it comes in contact with. This dress in particular has its roots in the Manchu people, not the Han Chinese, so someone of Han ancestry claiming offense is being a hypocrite. Rock music has its roots in blues music that began to develop in the early 1900s. But blues music is heavily influenced by European folk music (along with African musical traditions). Yet there are African-Americans who are claiming Rock music is a form of cultural appropriation. When I worked in China, I saw Chinese people exclusively wearing western clothing. Should I have gone around and claimed cultural appropriation?