He diverted rescue resources away from freezing handcart pioneers so that he make sure his cargo of tobacco and alcohol made it to Salt Lake before winter hit.

Will Bagley, author of "Blood of the Prophets" among other works and brother of Pat Bagley, was being interviewed on an itunes podcast about the Donner Party disaster. But every chance he got he ripped on Brigham Young.

Pretty interesting. I didn't know that about Brigham, and it might be the worst thing he ever did. He tried to blame Taylor for the disaster, but Taylor wasn't having any of it.

One quote from Bagley that I liked the best was "The more you know about Brigham Young, the less likeable that old con artist is."

The podcast was called know thyself and the parts are at 00:07:30 and then at 01:10:45 or so.

I also found this article today that Bagley wrote a while ago that goes into real depth about the handcart fiasco:

http://user.xmission.com/~research/central/handcart.pdf

Great to have you back, GoV!

From the article—

In April 1855, “Young consecrated to himself as trustee-in-trust [of the LDS Church] a long list of real and personal property valued at $199,625”—more than $4 million dollars in 2005—including an African servant girl worth $1,000.

The citation was from Leonard Arrington...

Arrington, Great Basin Kingdom, 146–47.

Did I read this correctly that Young owned a slave woman? Does anyone know more about this? The Boner.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 05/08/2018 12:58PM by BYU Boner.

If I remember correctly, she was given to the Church as tithing.
I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong, or provide a citation if I'm remembering right.

BY / Utah territory had the CHOICE of becoming a territory as either 'Slave' or non-slave (9/1850) by virtue of congressional sentiment at the time, compromises...

(admitted as a state <one of the last> 1/1896)

As many of us personally recall, the U.S. "civil war" (how can ANY WAR be called 'civil'???) began in. April of 1861

So any whining about Utah not being slave-friendly is Pure B.S.

just sayin'

This an excellent read regarding the handcart tragedy and Brigham Young's involvement.....or lack there of, depending on how you see it.


Devil's Gate: Brigham Young and the Great Mormon Handcart Tragedy
by David Roberts

Oh those wacky prophets: one of my favorites is in D&C 41--

"Hearken and hear, O ye my people, saith the Lord and your God, ye whom I delight to bless with the greatest of all blessings, ye that hear me; and ye that hear me not will I curse, that have professed my name, with the heaviest of all cursings...

...And again, it is meet that my servant Joseph Smith, Jun., should have a house built, in which to live and translate."


Well isn't that special?

https://www.amazon.com/South-Pass-Continent-Will-Bagley/dp/080614842X

This volume, essentially the only one that gives an authentic accounting of the role of "South Pass" in the entire Overland Migration, is a well-researched and articulate contribution to Western History, and the focus isn't strictly on Mormons but rather the entire history and geography.

* honk *

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ou47dupzoys

Hi all, I understand the folly of the handcarts, but my question is whether or not BY, or the church, owned this woman as a slave. Does anyone know? The citation assigns a monetary value to a human life, this implies slavery to me. Thanks to you all! The Boner.

Yes, she was a slave in Utah Territory (which was admitted to the Union as slave territory); the story is complicated, and she was originally a servant to Joseph Smith during the Nauvoo era.

Three other African American slaves entered the Salt Lake Valley on July 24, 1847; the best known is Green Flake, who was owned by a family named Flake and apparently given to the church as tithing. The faith-promoters like to claim BY gave the man his freedom, but things are unclear.

You can start with Wiki...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Flake

Thanks, Cabbie! I knew that Utah was a slave-holding territory. But, I didn't know that early LDS leaders accepted people as tithing.

The wiki article must have been written by an LDS apologist. A couple of other links emphasized the “miracles” early LDS blacks experienced.

Apparently, in Nauvoo, the LDS Church accepted Green’s labor as tithing—not him as property.

As I mentioned, the Arrington’s citation referred to a “servant girl.”

Apparently, Brigham's prophesying didn’t include the seeing the great civil rights movement, or how ugly Morg history would be reported via the Internet.

I've got a story I tell at Exmormon get togethers involving "Mormonites" (my term for the "Internet Termite" acts they engage in repeatedly) and I would repeat it here, but a certain individual who was also involved still has trouble laughing at it.

Catch me at a Conference or social gathering sometime (I've been known to show up at "Bite Me's" Sunday discussions), and I'll give you the details.

"Deconstructor" who used to post some incredible information here noted he was "fed up" with Wiki because of the LDS presence and dishonest heavy-handedness. You can see subtle evidence of these events because of the attention given to Mormon "subjects."

Caveat emptor... As an "Internet Knight Errant," I use Wiki for background, but since peer-reviewed material is so readily available, I'll stick with it when the bullets start flying.

My Internet mantra: Speak truthfully and be willing to be a big pr**k...

Awesome, Bro!

I remember reading a horrific account from someone who had survived the Willie handcart company in Fanny Stenhouse's "Tell It All".

foul putrid Brigham in action

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9kJ_NdZT1A