So the story goes that God created Adam, saw he was lonely and made Eve from a spare rib. He placed them in a large beautiful garden that did not know pain or suffering. He gave them one rule, “Don’t eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil.”

How, before eating the fruit, would Adam and Eve know wether obeying God was good or evil? For all they knew Obeying God was evil. God gave them an absurd command but did not give them the requiisuite abilities to determine if the rule giver (and thus the rule itself) was good?

The story is just F’ing dumb.

HH =)

I like the part where she was naked...

Damn fig leaves. . .

Have you watched "Naked and Afraid"?

Nudity isn't that pretty.

Sorta sounds like something a very primitive society from five thousand years ago would have thought up, doesn't it?

What is F'ing dumb is that people in 2018 still buy the absurdity. And Mormons re-enact it on a daily basis I their temples with "Dick and Jane" style dialogue. Boggles the mind.

"Let us go down." "We will go down."

"I have gone down..."

Waiting for Boner on this one :)

I AM the serpant!

Done & Done Wrote:
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> Sorta sounds like something a very primitive
> society from five thousand years ago would have
> thought up, doesn't it?

Actually it dates to a lot more recent time than that--more like
3000 years ago or so.

Hey that's my story. I miss that garden in missouri.

Why do newborn chicks know that it's best to follow the mother hen when they don't know right from wrong?

Politic Wrote:
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> Why do newborn chicks know that it's best to
> follow the mother hen when they don't know right
> from wrong?

Do they know it's "best?"

Or do they not know anything else?

The chicks aren't talking :)

Their actions speak louder than words.

Politic Wrote:
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> Their actions speak louder than words.

OK. But nobody can say what they do or don't know by observing their actions.

It's quite possible (highly likely, even) that chicks who had pre-wired brains to follow their mothers survived to reproduce, and ones that didn't, didn't. :)

Pre-wired you say. I rest my case.

"pre-wired" isn't knowledge.
Nor does it come from a "creator" thing.
Evolution does the job very nicely. :)

Thanks for the dialogue.
By saying that "..it's possible the chicks had been pre-wired" you were inadvertently suggesting an answer to Happy Heretic who asserted that "they had been given an absurd command but hadn't been given the requisite abilities."
Thanks I'm off to bed now (UK)

I'm not sure if this is a defense of genetically encoded behavior or of the Adam and Eve story, but just in case you are defending Adam and Eve.

God would have had to genetically code Adam and Eve to disobedience to allow for them to disobey. All other factors, including independence, curiosity, spite, and so forth would be insufficient for god's creation to go against one of god's commands. Think of the rest of god's creation and tell me which one of god's rules have they broken?

The problem with the whole story is that it is incongruous with every other action that god has taken.

Of course I'm an atheist who takes offense at illogical god characters.

Classic example of natural selection. The dumb chicks that don’t follow for protection don’t live to pass the dumb traits on to offspring. Sooner or later you get only chicks that follow.

What are the chances of 'getting high enjoyment' suffering the same fate?

Depends on the behaviors that create that “ high enjoyment”. If the behavior contributes to survival (ie,sex), I don’t believe there would be a negative impact on survival. If the “high enjoyment” were riding wrecklessly on a motorcycle when intoxicated, not as many individuals with those traits would survive to pass those behavioral tendencies on to offspring, thus limiting the future surviveability of those traits.

Thanks for your help.
"The dumb chicks that don't follow ....don't live....on.
....later you get only chicks that follow."
Embedded in your statement.

Politic Wrote:
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> Why do newborn chicks know that it's best to
> follow the mother hen when they don't know right
> from wrong?

They don't. They follow SOMETHING (almost always the mother hen)
and "imprint" on it. This was illustrated rather strikingly by
naturalist Konrad Lorenz who had incubator-hatched baby goslings
imprint on him:

"Lorenz demonstrated how incubator-hatched geese would imprint
on the first suitable moving stimulus they saw within what he
called a "critical period" between 13–16 hours shortly after
hatching. For example, the goslings would imprint on Lorenz
himself (to be more specific, on his wading boots), and he is
often depicted being followed by a gaggle of geese who had
imprinted on him."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imprinting_(psychology)

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/bb/7c/61/bb7c61262a7f15d6fd51eafe853bae6e.jpg

I'm waiting for my DNA results from 23andme but I think I'm related to Adam and Eve.

Moe Howard Wrote:
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> I'm waiting for my DNA results from 23andme but I
> think I'm related to Adam and Eve.

Not to mention Shemp.

"...spare rib."

Now I'm hungry.

I just put a couple of racks of ribs on the pellet smoker...completely coincidental, I assure you.

I like gods "perfection" in the plan.....

god:

Wow! Look at all the spirit babies I just produced. I'd have a cigarette right now if it wasn't against my rules.....have to catch my breath first anyway.

OK #1, what's your plan? Hmm, sounds good. What's that #2, you have a plan also? OK kids, you all have free will, so which plan do you want to choose? Those that chose #1's plan, your free to go. Those that can't decide....ever hear of big foot? You will. Those that chose #2's plan...I'm banishing you forever into outer darkness and you'll never get a human body! I'm gonna watch you all squirm!

A while later....

I created a man! Dude, he looks like a surfer! Oh wait, he's lonely, I guess I'll rip out one of his ribs and create a woman! OK, got that done, now go multiply and replenish the earth.

Awe shucks, they don't know how to multiply and replenish the earth. What to do, what to do???

Argggg! Eve went and ate from the tree after I told them not to! Guess I have to kick them out now and watch them suffer to death having children. At least now they know how to multiply and replenish.....why did I tell them not to eat the fruit? What was I thinking?

Yowzers! I'm a grandpa twice over! Damn that Cain, now I have to curse him forever! Oh well, conspiracy theorist of the future will need a large, hairy, ape like man creature to speculate about.....I guess those fence sitters can serve a purpose after all. Cool!

Whew! Having kids is nothing like I thought. They constantly misbehave and disobey me....better just send a flood, wipe them all out and start over.

Crap! They still aren't behaving. OK, I'll send my number one surfer looking son to straighten them out.

Uhg! My favorite people tortured and killed my favorite kid! They're not my favorites anymore. I'll have to find a new favorite people (why does the name Joseph keep popping into my head? Must be a brain fart.)

Alright then, this is the last straw, they either believe the kid they killed was perfect and worship him and me forever....or I'll send my zombie kid back and he'll burn them all alive and then they'll burn forever in hell!

Effffing Atheists!!! They figured out none of this is real! Now what's a god to do? They don't believe in me.....my powers! My powers! I'm losing my powers.....I'm melting......what a world, what a world!!!

Hilarious and creative, too ---- now this is funny Gawd could have plugged into about 6,000 (haha) years ago.

You brought many laughs to a day that so far was enjoying cursing god for a sore throat and sore head and a very shitty health year in general.

Hey there, Gawd, I need a new body ---- the one you handied me is a mess (I'm counting on his senility on this one because up until recently I really could not complain much about my bones which are just getting old at this point )

This needs to be posted at The Salamander Society. Where is Cricket?

Don't shout too loud or you might end up becoming "Jonny who went up in smoke"

>> "Don't shout too loud or you might end up becoming "Jonny who went up in smoke""

That's exactly what I have planned....since you can't get a sky burial in the US.

This article has a great picture. I never knew that Adam and Eve were Swedish. Yes, I knew Jesus was Swedish, but Adam and Eve? Wow! This depended my understanding. The Scandinavian Boner.

BYU Boner Wrote:
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> This article has a great picture. I never knew
> that Adam and Eve were Swedish. Yes, I knew Jesus
> was Swedish, but Adam and Eve? Wow! This depended
> my understanding. The Scandinavian Boner.

Swedish and from missouri.

If anyone is seriously interested the they need to read "The Lost Book of Enki!
If my memory serves me the issues is discussed in the 5th 6th an 7th tablets.

Why read more made-up nonsense to try to "understand" made-up nonsense?
Sitchin is a certified nut.

Dumth !



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/11/2018 12:10AM by Dave the Atheist.

Although there’s a genetic Adam and a genetic Eve, they never met each other or even lived at the same time. The garden story is a fable.

It could be that people in the time of Moses were sophisticated enough to read the stories as fables rather than as history.

I sure could go for some slow cooked ribs, though.

I’ll bring the beer.

BYU Boner Wrote:
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> I’ll bring the beer.

I'll bring the adam. Just find me an eve before i get there.

LDS absurdity abounds.

So god creates everything in his image. Or he creates everything perfect because he is perfect. Everything follows his command and thus remains perfect. However since mindless drones don't become gods, god must create a way for humanity to shed their perfection and become sinners. So he allows Satan to tempt them into imperfection, using a tool that god himself provided. Now comes the funniest parts.

Since god knew that he was going to do this he had to provide a way to make humanity perfect again, so he tortured and murdered a perfect being in ritual sacrifice. But it couldn't just be any perfect being it had to be a perfect being that was universally loved and respected by all of the other perfect things that existed. You see god derives his power from the respect he has with his creation. God gives laws and asks his creation to obey the laws, which they do. God in turn promises to be just to all of the creation. Which means that he will follow the same laws that he has created. Well he broke his promise when he created humanity and his creation required that justice send all of humanity to hell. Except god had an ace in his hand, Jesus. Since Jesus was the primary conduit for the creation his whole creation loved and respected Jesus more than god. So when god asked Jesus, a being who was perfect, to allow himself to be murdered unjustly he broke his creation's spirit. The creation loved Jesus to heaven and thus the precedent of grace was created. Now god uses that precedent with all of humanity. Thus breaking his promise doubly because not only did he create a flaw in humanity to begin with (Humanity was never perfect, have you ever tried to tempt a tree to sin?), he also created a loophole to allow humanity to become more exalted than the rest of his creation.

(one paragraph because this literally makes no sense anyway)

Adam and Eve is a ridiculous story for the very reason that Brigham Young pointed out. It goes against the very process that god had used in the past.

And Mormon space doctrine assholes are right about one thing. By making humanity special god violates his agreement with every other creation. The only difference between that idea and reality is that there is a better explanation.

That god didn't do anything, since god doesn't exist.

In 1661 Charles 11 ordered Oliver Cromwells body be disinterred 3 years after his death. What was left of his corpse was dragged through the streets of London from morning till 4 in the afternoon. Then his head was chopped off. After this it was put on a pole where it remained for several years.
Although he was dead they wanted to kill him over and over again. Cromwell was dead the first time but they were still driven by a need to kill him some more.

Even i need a beer after reading all that. Does anything god does or did make any sense? Mormons manage to make god even more weird and confusing.

The story of the Garden of Eden is not so much about the Fall of Man as it is about the Fall of God, for becoming entangled in such foolishness.

Kaitlyn Wrote:
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> The story of the Garden of Eden is not so much
> about the Fall of Man as it is about the Fall of
> God, for becoming entangled in such foolishness.

Indeed.

Genesis is the result of at least 4 different editors even different words/phrases to one sentence coming from multiple cobbled together stories.

There are 2 conflicting creation stories. Genesis 1 says God created male&female together. Genesis 2 has the woman from Adam's rib story.

As for Mrs. Cain, Genesis is the story of only a certain people not everybody. There were other cultures living 2 locations over.

And nobody in their right mind would believe it was fact and not allegory.

siobhan Wrote:
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> And nobody in their right mind would believe it
> was fact and not allegory.

It was apparently so-believed by bible Jesus, who treats it as a literal story.

It's also believed as fact by something around 38% of current Americans.

No argument from me that none of those are "in their right mind," of course.

This post must have felt like a wonderful opportunity for you ex-Mos to 'vent your spleens' and get the truth out about religion.
Just having another chance to throw some verbal stones like f'ing dumb, assholes, crap, weird nonsense and absurd must indeed feel most cathartic.
Well done.

I gather that living at home gives you plenty of time to search the web for opportunities to please ghawd. Kids who have to iron their own white shirts for Sunday don't have this luxury. Remember that for next fast & testimony meeting!

Moderators? May we play?

So....what do you think about the story of Adam and Eve? Do you think it’s literally true, or is it a metaphor? What value(s) do you see in the story?

Do you want to defend the story, or are you just upset that it’s being ridiculed?

Kind of guessed politic was one of them.

I think the story is great...as good as any other myth...on par with Prometheus or Pandora.

It addresses many contemporary concerns.

The goddess grants wisdom to mankind.

Snakes (dragons) crawl on their bellies—I think the idea may have been to answer the question as to why snakes didn’t have wings.

There is a transition from childhood to adulthood—adults are modest, adults get married and have children, when marriage occurs the man is expected to be devoted more to his wife than family of origin.

Gods are petty and jealous. They guard their attributes, wisdom and immortality, selfishly.

Men don’t have a baculum (penis bone)- boners notwithstanding. Some think the rib is a euphemism for the baculum. The story then takes on a sexual subtext.

There is an antipathy of humans with respect to snakes - too bad spiders weren’t in the story.

People die.

At another level the story may reflect an opinion that a finite life with wisdom is preferred to an infinite lifespan without.

It’s not surprising these stories stick with us...they are great stories.

It all makes sense! The snake's DNA was programmed so it could talk this one time (without a larynx or vocal cords even). Plus it knew language.

Oh, wait. The debil changed into a snake. That was prewired in the DNA too!

No, it is a very good Just-So story, imagine Uncle Remus, and there is a gathering of the primitive farming tribe, one of the women has taken her newborn with her, and speaking with other mothers, the topic how painful labour is comes up, it seems to go much easier with other animals,"Why does it hurt us so much more?" another just eating a very masculine part of the animal they are roasting, looks at that organ of the newborn and wonders, "why don't have our men a bone in their dick?". "You could ask as well, why snakes have no legs!",snaps an insulted male voice. "I always wondered why we kill snakes if we can, and why they kill us, sure we kill them, because they kill us, that is reasonable, but why did we start all that killing, we are too big to eat for us, and with their venom, we are a bit too scared to eat them, so why?" "If we are going to talkabout stuff like that, why do weeds grow?""Why do we wear clothes?""Talking about snakes, where does that word come from?"

The Uncle Remus-figure starts to speak "Hush children, I will answer all your questions, by going back to the beginning: These are the generations of the heavens and of the earth when they were created...

It's really hard to decide which is more absurd, Adam and Eve, Noah's Ark, or Jaredite flippable wooden submarines filled with urine and cow pies from the livestock they brought along for a year.

Having spent a little bit of time around large livestock animals, I know with every fiber of my being that having a large animal in an enclosed pen that gets flipped upside down would not end well.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
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> Having spent a little bit of time around large
> livestock animals, I know with every fiber of my
> being that having a large animal in an enclosed
> pen that gets flipped upside down would not end
> well.

:D :D :D

Adam and Eve story is the foundation for original sin. Without original sin (imaginary disease) there would be no need for atonement (imaginary cure).

The Adam and Eve story is false and there was no original sin,

Therefore, there is no need for atonement.

Religion is selling an imaginary disease, and offering you snake-oil for the minor cost of "tithes" and the suspension of ones independent reasoning abilities. The price was too high for me.

HH =)