I'm curious. Say more than "yes" if you have.

Angel of Jesus Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm curious. Say more than "yes" if you have.

Is the double entendre intentional?

;)

Yes, if you "knew" Mark Hofmann in the Biblical sense of "knew" I really want to know that too, but don't get too graphic.

"meat Mark Hofmann" was his nickname after he blew himself up.



Tevai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Angel of Jesus Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm curious. Say more than "yes" if you have.
>
> Is the double entendre intentional?
>
> ;)

I first read that as Angus of Jesus. I’ll have mine medium rare and pass the A1.

He was a pre-med major (sort of) and was in several of my classes. He was a compulsive liar and a cheater, and pretty obnoxious. I could not believe he hoodwinked AJ Simmonds with the story about finding the B of M characters page and helping him by cutting them out of the old book. A big part of my shelf collapsing is when Spencer Kimball and others posed with Mark and the forged characters, I knew then they had no power of priesthood discernment.

I attended his Missionary Farewell, when such special meetings were still allowed by God. My father spoke just prior to Mark's testimony.

Funny thing though, Mark told me he was an atheist, just three weeks before he received his Mission Call. He let the papers go through, just to see if he was able to fool the Lord, too.

He was just an ordinary fellow. But as clever as Joseph Smith.

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=4372740&itype=CMSID

I had a class where we were discussing philosophy with a professor in a small group outside of the classroom. The professor was a very liberal mormon, but TBM, Mark basically told us his personal philosphy and he came off as being a total sociopath as well as an atheist. Several years later I visited with that professor again at Sunstone in SLC and he asked me if I remembered that conversation, and I did, and I also asked how come President Kimball, Hinkley, Packer, Pinnock and others did not see through him. "Because he was the greatest evil they had ever encountered" was the reply.

This kind of makes sense. They were all so insulated in their rock star celestial worlds that they really couldn’t process an encounter with true malevolence. He just walked in and ransacked their houses while they watched.

LOL. They bought at least 446 of his forgeries and then apparently used the fact that he'd fooled them to cast doubt on claims about church history in general, pre-internet. Scroll down to October 15, 1985 and August 6, 1987 in the following link:

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900002408/looking-back-at-the-mark-hofmann-bombings-and-his-life-of-deceit.html

They used the Hofmann episode to impugn legitimate criticism so they themselves could continue fooling and stealing from the members. They probably got a lot of good mileage out of it, too, for the next 10-15 years.

Most of the General Authorities are atheists. Few of them are stupid. It takes a sophisticated syndicate to fleece millions in a day of Alexa.

http://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=51020099&itype=CMSID

Mark Hofmann revealed how human beings are deceived, both individually and collectively.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Y3eoZlXPv8

When I was a correctional officer at the Utah State Prison in 1990. I was in the control room in Uinta 3, the maximum security area where Hoffman and Lafferty were housed, when Dan Lafferty tripped the emergency buzzer yelling that “Hoffy” had collapsed.

The week before, I was working in visiting when Hoffman recieved an early morning Sunday visit from his parents. His mother was blathering about how his ex wife was primary president. Mark told them how well him and Lafferty were getting along. That put a damper on the event, then mom dropped the bomb that his ex had remarried. A cloud of doom passed over his face and the visit ended.

He put the word out that he wanted to kill himself. The other inmates faked taking their medication and gave him their medication he took them and overdosed. Later, we searched his cell looking for evidence of what happened. Nothing of note was found except that him and lafferty were playing chess without a chess board. Writing moves on paper. Lafferty was only one of three inmates at the time that had the personalty profile that could be placed with any prisoner do to his quiet personality.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2018 03:45AM by Whiskeytango.

You need to be interviewed on camera for the Hofmann documentary, if you have not done so already and if you're willing. go to www dot forgerfilm dot com and click on 'contact" if you want to be in the documentary.



Whiskeytango Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I was a correctional officer at the Utah
> State Prison in 1990. I was in the control room in
> Uinta 3, the maximum security area where Hoffman
> and Lafferty were housed, when Dan Lafferty
> tripped the emergency buzzer yelling that
> “Hoffy” had collapsed.
>
> The week before, I was working in visiting when
> Hoffman recieved an early morning Sunday visit
> from his parents. His mother was blathering about
> how his ex wife was primary president. Mark told
> them how well him and Lafferty were getting along.
> That put a damper on the event, then mom dropped
> the bomb that his ex had remarried. A cloud of
> doom passed over his face and the visit ended.
>
> He put the word out that he wanted to kill
> himself. The other inmates faked taking their
> medication and gave him their medication he took
> them and overdosed. Later, we searched his cell
> looking for evidence of what happened. Nothing of
> note was found except that him and Lafferty were
> playing chess without a chess board. Writing moves
> on paper. Hoffman was only one of three inmates at
> the time that had the personalty profile that
> could be placed with any prisoner do to his quiet
> personality.

Just did. We will see where that goes.

Do you happen to be the author of a couple of novels?

No. But it would be fun to write some....

Heard about him, isn't he the one that fooled the hinckster?

No, but I have a chunk of glass that flew from his car when the bomb blew up under his seat.

My dad was 300 yards or so away from the blast. He thought the glass might be interesting to have.

I read A Gathering of Saints after my dad read it. He stayed TBM. I continued to be a social Mormon for a while.

At one point, probably about 1982, I was working at a local VW dealership here in Zion. I was the finance/licensing guy since I was such a bad salesman but I could do that.

His parents lived in the same ward as the general manager and Mark's dad had bought a used Buick Electra 225 from him. They both came in to do the paperwork for the new used car, on a Saturday.

I always had customers look over the license paperwork and his dad made sure I corrected it from showing the car as a "Buick Electra" to say "Buick Electra 225", which was one step up.

Mark didn't say much but they were only there 20 minutes or so. Nobody said I wasn't an efficient finance clerk. His dad died in 1993, only 64 years old, from a cerebral hemorrhage. I can't remember who said this at the time, but they were sure all of the issues in the previous 10 years had killed him.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 05/14/2018 05:58AM by munchybotazv2.

He was interviewed on one of the news stations when the bombings happened, but I no longer talk to him and I don't remember what he said way back when. My ex-BIL is TBM.

I knew him and had several discussions with him over a period of about two years.

It was at a time when both myself and Mark where spending a great amount of time in the Church Historical Library. For me it was about twice a week during lunch hour.

I would call 20 minutes before lunch with numbered items ready to be brought up from the vault so they would be ready when I arrived. During my time there I would mainly stay in the glass enclosed security area where those looking at vault items must stay. The area had a long table and I'd frequently share it with none other than Mark himself. We talked on those occasions -- mostly about my facination with the things he'd discovered and brought to the church.

Little did I know at that time that some of Mark's time was spent not actually reading the old manuscripts, etc. but instead was extracting the blank coverleaf and backleaf of the books he was looking at -- for use as naturally aged paper.

I think if I added up all the times we talked it would add up to about a half hour or 45 minutes.

The last 10 minutes of my stay was spent either looking up new references for future lunch-hour visits or submitting "fake" outlines of my research (providing church staff to assess my need to look at things in the vault). I call it "fake" outlines because I never really offered the real reason I was after a specific manuscript or document -- I'd try and make up a nice TBM kind of reason -- the historians were pretty lenient with me. After the Hoffman story (or as was pointed out in this thread "the meat" of Mark Hoffman) hit the fan, security at the Historian's Office went way up and it was tougher to "fake" my research outlines -- I had to do face to face interviews several times with the staff before being granted access.

I know him and have visited him in prison. I am close friends with Dan Lafferty, and Mark was a Dan's cellie. I haven't seen Mark for over two years, since Dan and he were put in different prisons.

I once asked Mark if the church leaders were true believers. In Mark's opinion he said that he believed that they were. He said all the leaders are surrounded by "yes" men, and they were all sheltered from real life in their day to day activities. Mark is an atheist.

Mark is very private, and will never talk about anything he did regarding the forgeries. He has a calculator that he uses many hours a day in his cell, and that keeps him occupied. He doesn't socialize with the general prison population. He lost most of his hearing form the explosion.

He will never do an interview for any documentary or movie.