I’ve been fuming about this for days…Last week my 12-yr-old daughter says, ‘Mom, I forgot to tell you what happened the last time I went over to Elizabeth’s (not her real name) house.’ Then proceeds to tell me how Elizabeth’s grandfather asks her if he can show her something and brings out the BoM. He then talked to her for 20 minutes about it. She told me it made her feel uncomfortable but she went along with it because she didn’t want to be rude to her friend’s grandfather. Her friend, Elizabeth, is NOT a MORmON and I’ve allowed my daughter to go to their non-denominational church a handful of times because she likes the youth program. Evidently grandpa IS MORmON and thinks he can usurp my authority and speak to my child about the cult. My daughter doesn’t want to spend time with Elizabeth anymore due to an unrelated issue, and I’m almost disappointed I didn’t get the chance to go over there and say something to Grandpa Asshat! I want to tell my child how to handle situations like this for future reference. I told her to say ‘this is an inappropriate conversation to be having without my parents present.’ Or something along the lines of…’I’ll listen to you talk about your religion if my parents can teach Elizabeth about our religion!’ (my religion is EXMO). I confirmed with her dad that he feels the same way. He’s not nearly as fired up as I am but still angry nonetheless. Can anyone please give me some clever ideas of how a 12-yr-old can respond to pushy adults like this!! I’m too pissed off to think straight.

When someone oversteps their bounds, you don't need something clever. You need something direct. If I were you I would tell the grandfather myself that he is NOT to approach your daughter regarding Mormonism. Period.

Your daughter should learn that just because someone is older does not meant that you must defer to them. If you have a clever comeback--great. If not, direct honesty is even better because no one gets to laugh it off.

But what comes to mind is, "I'm twelve now, Gramps, and a little old for fairy tales. What do you think about One Direction splitting up? Who was your favorite? Harry or Zayne?"


You are correct to be fuming.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When someone oversteps their bounds, you don't
> need something clever. You need something direct.
> If I were you I would tell the grandfather myself
> that he is NOT to approach your daughter regarding
> Mormonism. Period.
>
> Your daughter should learn that just because
> someone is older does not meant that you must
> defer to them. If you have a clever
> comeback--great. If not, direct honesty is even
> better because no one gets to laugh it off.
>
> But what comes to mind is, "I'm twelve now,
> Gramps, and a little old for fairy tales. What do
> you think about One Direction splitting up? Who
> was your favorite? Harry or Zayne?"
>
>
> You are correct to be fuming.

Thank you, Done. I agree with your words and appreciate the advice. I'm going to talk to her about this again and make sure she knows she doesn't have to do the 'polite' thing because it's an adult.

hahahahaha! loooove the fairty tale comment... made my day:)

Agree with D&D. Be direct. You should talk to grandpa and tell him he is not to discuss religion with your MINOR age child again....period.

Tell your daughter that its OK to tell an adult when you are uncomfortable and want them to stop what they are doing.....something like "I'm not comfortable talking about your book and I want you to stop." If that doesn't work, she should go to the parent at her friends house or just call you to come pick her up.

Good luck, I'd be fuming too!

My suggestion:

"You can talk to my daughter about your religion if I can talk to your grand-daughter about my sex life. Deal?"

:)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/19/2018 07:19PM by ificouldhietokolob.

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My suggestion:
>
> "You can talk to my daughter about your religion
> if I can talk to your grand-daughter about my sex
> life. Deal?"
>
> :)

hahahahahaha! brilliant!

"My mom told me to call the police if an adult does something that makes me uncomfortable."

OK, they're only 12, but I'd be more worried about what got between her and a potential friend. Maybe a hug and "I'm sorry about whatever" could get her back in good graces with her friend.

Then, invited back to her house, grandpa pulls out BoM and BOOM! you jump all over his ass.

But that's just my Stan-driven anti-mormon mind planning evil against the Lord's anointed...because that's the kind of sin us RfMer's revel in...

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> OK, they're only 12, but I'd be more worried about
> what got between her and a potential friend.
> Maybe a hug and "I'm sorry about whatever" could
> get her back in good graces with her friend.
>
> Then, invited back to her house, grandpa pulls
> out BoM and BOOM! you jump all over his ass.
>
> But that's just my Stan-driven anti-mormon mind
> planning evil against the Lord's
> anointed...because that's the kind of sin us
> RfMer's revel in...


Loving the Stan-driven mind! Nothing to worry about regarding the issue that came between my daughter and her friend. Elizabeth decided to start hanging with a group of mean girls that my daughter had no interest in being a part of. But hoping that one day I'll have an opportunity to at least talk to Elizabeth's mom and let her know how uncool grandpa's cult lesson was.

I wonder if he heard your daughter has gone to church with Elizabeth and therefore thinks she is open about religion since she is open to whatever Elizabeth's church is doing.


Here's some comebacks (snarky joking ones)

Grampa Asshat, I already heard that story (pointing to the BoM he is holding). I can't believe people actually believe that.

Grampa Asshat, I'm not allowed to talk to people trying to sell me things.

Grampa Asshat, I think you should keep your religion to yourself. It kind of makes people uncomfortable. I've been taught religion should be decided when I'm a legal age.

Grampa Asshat, if I want to hear your testimony, I'll go to your church.

Grampa Asshat, are you on drugs?

Grampa Asshat, don't you feel uncomfortable proselytizing to me since I'm 12? That must be why so many people think Mormons brainwash kids.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wonder if he heard your daughter has gone to
> church with Elizabeth and therefore thinks she is
> open about religion since she is open to whatever
> Elizabeth's church is doing.
>
>
> Here's some comebacks (snarky joking ones)
>
> Grampa Asshat, I already heard that story
> (pointing to the BoM he is holding). I can't
> believe people actually believe that.
>
> Grampa Asshat, I'm not allowed to talk to people
> trying to sell me things.
>
> Grampa Asshat, I think you should keep your
> religion to yourself. It kind of makes people
> uncomfortable. I've been taught religion should be
> decided when I'm a legal age.
>
> Grampa Asshat, if I want to hear your testimony,
> I'll go to your church.
>
> Grampa Asshat, are you on drugs?
>
> Grampa Asshat, don't you feel uncomfortable
> proselytizing to me since I'm 12? That must be why
> so many people think Mormons brainwash kids.

lmaoooooo! Done cry laughed all my mascara off! That's a possibility regarding G-pa thinking we're open minded to exploring religions, but Elizabeth's MOM knows we're EXMO and how strongly I feel against anything mormoney.

I wish that back when I was twelve, some well meaning adult had taken me aside to ask me what I knew about the stock market and would I like to know more... Would my parents have appreciated that adult's effort? Maybe. Probably.

It's not the attempt to educate, it's the subject matter. I bet that dumb ass grandpa knows better than to bring up politics or religion if making money is involved; no way do you want to piss off someone when 'bidness' is at hand. But he had no problem doing your daughter the 'favor' of trying to rope her into what the overwhelming majority of sentient beings recognize as an organization that does NOT have its members' best interests at heart.

So I guess I'm saying that the sooner your daughter learns what's best for her, when it comes to investing her time, the better. But I still may not be the best judge when it comes to this.

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wish that back when I was twelve, some well
> meaning adult had taken me aside to ask me what I
> knew about the stock market and would I like to
> know more... Would my parents have appreciated
> that adult's effort? Maybe. Probably.
>
> It's not the attempt to educate, it's the subject
> matter. I bet that dumb ass grandpa knows better
> than to bring up politics or religion if making
> money is involved; no way do you want to piss off
> someone when 'bidness' is at hand. But he had no
> problem doing your daughter the 'favor' of trying
> to rope her into what the overwhelming majority of
> sentient beings recognize as an organization that
> does NOT have its members' best interests at
> heart.
>
> So I guess I'm saying that the sooner your
> daughter learns what's best for her, when it comes
> to investing her time, the better. But I still
> may not be the best judge when it comes to this.


Thank you for the different perspective and you make a good point. It is about time management and telling culty asshats to step off. Glad my daughter is much stronger than I was when I was her age. She'll no doubt discern between what's a huge waste of time and what's not. She already knows the BoM is kindling.

If your daughter decides to pursue the friendship again, IMO that would be the time to have the chat with grandpa -- or the friend's mom.

But at age 12, your daughter probably just finished 7th grade. This would be a good time to talk with her about how to handle people who are aggressive proselytizers for their religion along with the aggressively missionary sects.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If your daughter decides to pursue the friendship
> again, IMO that would be the time to have the chat
> with grandpa -- or the friend's mom.
>
> But at age 12, your daughter probably just
> finished 7th grade. This would be a good time to
> talk with her about how to handle people who are
> aggressive proselytizers for their religion along
> with the aggressively missionary sects.


Thanks, Summer, I completely agree. She just turned 12 so will be going into 7th grade. Recently I played hookey from work and we spent the day playing and talking about stuff, including the point you mentioned.

Wasn't that book written by a man who had sex with his followers wives and teenage daughters? Thats creepy.

Well at least the thing he wanted to show wasn't his dick.

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well at least the thing he wanted to show wasn't
> his dick.
That was next. He was grooming her to see how gullible/obedient she would be.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2018 01:16AM by koriwhore.

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well at least the thing he wanted to show wasn't
> his dick.


That was my fear when I started to read this.

I agree with done & Done that cleverness is not very important here, and furthermore, any cleverness would probably be lost on its intended audience in this scenario. The child simply needs to be helped to understand how to establish boundaries when you or her father aren't present to see that boundaries are present and respected. If she were my child, which she obviously is not, I would not want her around that creep.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2018 01:23AM by scmd1.

scmd1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> olderelder Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well at least the thing he wanted to show
> wasn't
> > his dick.
>
>
> That was my fear when I started to read this.
>
> I agree with done & Done that cleverness is not
> very important here, and furthermore, any
> cleverness would probably be lost on its intended
> audience in this scenario. The child simply needs
> to be helped to understand how to establish
> boundaries when you or her father aren't present
> to see that boundaries are present and respected.
> If she were my child, which she obviously is not,
> I would not want her around that creep.


I fully agree. Teaching her how to establish boundaries and fend off people who disrespect them is most important.

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well at least the thing he wanted to show wasn't
> his dick.


BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! My thoughts too!

olderelder Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well at least the thing he wanted to show wasn't
> his dick.


Lol. That's what I though OP was going to say happened when I first started reading this! I thought it was just me.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2018 12:47PM by Aquarius123.

It never ceases to amaze me that some mormons think it's ok to try and convert our children. However, you better believe if we tried to deconvert their children, they would raise holy hell. They would act like you were throwing acid on them. And, your children would never be allowed to be around their children ever again.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2018 12:46PM by Aquarius123.

Aquarius123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It never ceases to amaze me that some mormons
> think it's ok to try and convert our children.
> However, you better believe if we tried to
> deconvert their children, they would raise holy
> hell. They would act like you were throwing acid
> on them. And, your children would never be
> allowed to be around their children ever again.

We should act like they are throwing acid on us when they try to convince our kids they should sing the praises of a dirty old con man who raped his followers wives and teenage daughters.

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Aquarius123 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > It never ceases to amaze me that some mormons
> > think it's ok to try and convert our children.
>
> > However, you better believe if we tried to
> > deconvert their children, they would raise holy
> > hell. They would act like you were throwing
> acid
> > on them. And, your children would never be
> > allowed to be around their children ever again.
>
> We should act like they are throwing acid on us
> when they try to convince our kids they should
> sing the praises of a dirty old con man who raped
> his followers wives and teenage daughters.


I know, right? Why would it even be in question over what to say to them? This is your child. That old man waaaaaay overstepped boundaries. In my neck of the woods, we would say you need somebody to tell you about yourself, then proceed to do so.

Aquarius123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> koriwhore Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Aquarius123 Wrote:
> >
> --------------------------------------------------
>
> > -----
> > > It never ceases to amaze me that some mormons
> > > think it's ok to try and convert our
> children.
> >
> > > However, you better believe if we tried to
> > > deconvert their children, they would raise
> holy
> > > hell. They would act like you were throwing
> > acid
> > > on them. And, your children would never be
> > > allowed to be around their children ever
> again.
> >
> > We should act like they are throwing acid on us
> > when they try to convince our kids they should
> > sing the praises of a dirty old con man who
> raped
> > his followers wives and teenage daughters.
>
>
> I know, right? Why would it even be in question
> over what to say to them? This is your child.
> That old man waaaaaay overstepped boundaries. In
> my neck of the woods, we would say you need
> somebody to tell you about yourself, then proceed
> to do so.

Right. Like I told my kids while I was raising them, "Don't ever be afraid to speak up about anything that makes you feel uncomfortable. You always have the power to do so."

Of course now that I have a daughter in the military, I said that to her and she said, "Yeah, that's great in principal, but I can't really say, "Hey Sarge, killing people, without really knowing they're the enemy, makes me feel really uncomfortable." or I'd get discharged dishonorably."

I said, "True, but I'm talking about if you are subject to sexual harassment in the military, you definitely have to speak up."

She said, "What if the guy harassing you is your commanding officer?"

I replied, "Talk to his Commanding Officer."

She said, "Yeah, that's not how the military works."

I said, "Well it seems like that's all changing. If you're ever abused you need to speak up about it to somebody who can do something to stop it."

She said, "I'm not being abused. I just handle my own shit."

She's a badass.
So proud of her.

Aquarius123 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It never ceases to amaze me that some mormons
> think it's ok to try and convert our children.
> However, you better believe if we tried to
> deconvert their children, they would raise holy
> hell. They would act like you were throwing acid
> on them. And, your children would never be
> allowed to be around their children ever again.


Right??!!!

Hey Grandpa, can I show you something, too? How about a nice groin kick! I'm just kidding, of course.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2018 12:00PM by rubi123.

Oh you want to tell me about invisible golden plates? Did you hear the one about a jolly old man who wears a red suit and invades peoples homes every Christmas Eve?

THIS: "I'm sorry, but my parents believe that what you are doing is not appropriate. You should stop, now. If you wish to discuss this matter you will need to take it up with my parents."

I'm generally perplexed by those feeling a need to protect their kids from learning anything about Mormonism, or any other religion when it comes to that. Just like any mind virus learning and understanding what's at issue here is the best vaccine. I agree with Aquaruis123 that there's a huge double standard, but it's ok Mormon kids will be less resilient from all this hyper sensitive "protection."

Your daughter is 12, so maybe the best thing would be to give your daughter a primer on the BOM's greatest historicity and linguistic strikeouts, and some of the moral and ethical problems with using it as your life's guide (racism, cutting off limbs etc.). Richard Packham's ExMormon Foundation address about Joseph Smith's language problems might a fun resource. She doesn't have to sit for the old man's lesson, but maybe she could cut to the chase with some embarrassing or difficult questions. "I'm familiar with the Book of Mormon, why does it say that God made people's skin dark as a sign of their wickedness?" If he wants to play this game, make him play on the grown up field.

Now if she's not interested in learning this stuff--from you or the BOM obsessed grandpa--that's ok too. She can just decline, which can be done nicely and firmly. If she does this and the grandpa man persists, then it may be time to intervene with the friend's parents.

snowball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm generally perplexed by those feeling a need to
> protect their kids from learning anything about
> Mormonism, or any other religion when it comes to
> that. Just like any mind virus learning and
> understanding what's at issue here is the best
> vaccine. I agree with Aquaruis123 that there's a
> huge double standard, but it's ok Mormon kids will
> be less resilient from all this hyper sensitive
> "protection."
>

Not trying to protect her from learning about Mormonism or other religions. .That was a broad assumption. I was raised TBM, as was her father, so she knows plenty... enough to know the conversation with g-pa made her uncomfortable. I also mentioned that she's attended a non-denominational church with her friend before and enjoyed it. My issue is with adults who take it upon themselves to try to teach any inflammatory subject (in this case the cult madness) to a child without a parent's permission. Evidently you feel differently about people approaching your children and that's ok. I won't label you hyperly non-sensitive for that.

hippiegypsy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> snowball Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm generally perplexed by those feeling a need
> to
> > protect their kids from learning anything about
> > Mormonism, or any other religion when it comes
> to
> > that. Just like any mind virus learning and
> > understanding what's at issue here is the best
> > vaccine. I agree with Aquaruis123 that there's
> a
> > huge double standard, but it's ok Mormon kids
> will
> > be less resilient from all this hyper sensitive
> > "protection."
> >
>
> Not trying to protect her from learning about
> Mormonism or other religions. .That was a broad
> assumption. I was raised TBM, as was her father,
> so she knows plenty... enough to know the
> conversation with g-pa made her uncomfortable. I
> also mentioned that she's attended a
> non-denominational church with her friend before
> and enjoyed it. My issue is with adults who take
> it upon themselves to try to teach any
> inflammatory subject (in this case the cult
> madness) to a child without a parent's permission.
> Evidently you feel differently about people
> approaching your children and that's ok. I won't
> label you hyperly non-sensitive for that.
Having witnessed Mormon penisholders gain the trust of children, then proceed to exploit them, numerous times, I raised my kids to avoid abusers by speaking up for themselves and encouraged them to get out of situations that felt uncomfortable to them and go speak to a responsible adult about it. I volunteered to be that responsible adult.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/20/2018 07:44PM by koriwhore.