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Posted by: TheHumanLeague ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 10:23AM

This really iritates me and others in town. About
5 years ago the small Mormon population gained more
Mormons. Then they "Decided" that the Schools are
no good.

Next thing you know a bunch of Mormon kids are getting
Home Schooled.

1. Walking around town during School hours.
2. No more hygiene looking like slobs.
3. Kids that had friends now are depressed.
4. No more hanging out with local kids.
5. The Parents are so freaking stupid!!!

See they CANT discuss with NORMAL kids why they are not
going to the local Schools. All the kids want is a NORMAL
life. The Parents are instructed to pull the kids and
oppose the EVIL Schools.

EFF THEM!!!

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Posted by: jett ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 10:27AM

Do they qualify for the Darwin Award? :P

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 11:10AM

Home schooled Mormon kids: “Who’s Darwin?”.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 11:18AM

Ha! That's the truth. Mormons home school to keep control. The "Outside World "(reality) will burst their religious bubble. Indoctrinating your kids into a cult should be a chargeable child abuse offense.

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Posted by: jett ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 11:25AM

Good point.

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 11:15AM

Here are some quotes about homeschooling.

http://ldshomeschoolinginca.org/quotes.html

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 11:53AM

Here's a relevant news article from today:

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/florida-private-schools-curriculum-downplays-slavery-says-humans-and-dinosaurs-lived-together/ar-AAzpuF3?ocid=spartanntp

I have a problem with state subsidies for education where accepted science is not taught.

One advantage to the public schools is that you have more sets of eyes on kids to possibly pick up on suspected child abuse, malnutrition, various disorders such as learning disabilities, delays, and autism, vision and hearing problems (you would be surprised how many parents never check on their own,) etc.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2018 11:58AM by summer.

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 01:13PM

Several years ago I had two home schooled Mormon boys in my Scout group. In the case of those two boys I observed:
~ Their history curriculum was the Book of Mormon
~ They were seriously lacking in social skills
~ I could never ask them to read during meetings because they could not read.
~ Neither boy had interest in higher education

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 01:39PM

So true. A few points. Why have interest in higher education when you can't handle lower education? Who needs education when you are predestined to have your own planet and unlimited women? You don't need social skills when you can order everyone around on said planet.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 09:35PM

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So true. A few points. Why have interest in higher
> education when you can't handle lower education?
> Who needs education when you are predestined to
> have your own planet and unlimited women? You
> don't need social skills when you can order
> everyone around on said planet.


You are so smart.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 10:37PM

Watch and learn, grasshopper.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 01:24AM

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Watch and learn, grasshopper.

Been watching a while trust me. Still am yet to be impressed by anything.

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Posted by: Dorothy ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 12:37PM

Adam. I feel like you need your mom to step in and tell you to leave StillAnon alone. His comment was fine.

Maybe take a walk. Or read a book.

I know you are in physical and mental pain every day, but pointless fighting on rfm is not helping anything.

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Posted by: Badassadam1 ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 04:36PM

He started it haha. I'll walk away and be the adult....again. And then he'll attack me again in the future and the cycle will repeat and repeat.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 09:52PM

That's because you don't learn and grow. You're like the 3 year old that continues to burn his hand on the stove to see if it's still hot. You make Forest Gump seem like an MIT scholar.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 12:51AM

My wife, who taught elementary school to keep a roof over our heads and food on the table when she was in law school and I was in medical school, believes that all home-schooled students should be required to show up annually at a designated educational institution for state testing or grade level proficiency testing. She feels that any kid whose test results demonstrate that he or she is more than a year behind in reading, written language, or math should be required to enroll in public school or in an accredited private school for at least the next year. (If the child has documented special needs, adjustments to expectations could be made as long as the parents offer evidence that the child's special needs are being addressed through the homeschool curriculum.) The parents who don't homeschool well shouldn't have the right to allow their offspring to reach adulthood in states of illiteracy and innumeracy. Unfortunately, not much can be done about social skills that are lacking due to homeschooling.

Shinehah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Several years ago I had two home schooled Mormon
> boys in my Scout group. In the case of those two
> boys I observed:
> ~ Their history curriculum was the Book of Mormon
> ~ They were seriously lacking in social skills
> ~ I could never ask them to read during meetings
> because they could not read.
> ~ Neither boy had interest in higher education

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Posted by: CateS ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 08:40PM

And then what?

My next door neighbor who sells lalarue has 5 kids under 9. They totallt are ignored abd run around the yard in underpants and one sock in December. (Virginia, so it’s ok.) mom too busy selling that crap clothing to attend to the kids much less teach the to read. Kids are always talking over the fence to me bc so lonely.

Anyway the oldest was in a dither this spring bc the test was coming up and she still couldn’t read. I’m sure she failed but it’s not like the state will do anything about it.

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Posted by: pugsly ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 02:18PM

My TBM SIL "home schools" their children. She was home schooled. She cannot figure simple sales tax, knows nothing about history or current affairs, birth control.....the list is endless. Yet she is allowed to teach kids the basics that you need to understand to make your way in the world.

The whole lot of them couldn't find their own butt if you gave them a map, flashlight, and placed their hands onto their butt!

Home schooling works great for some people, but others have no business trying to teach anyone to do anything. Just because a person can read doesn't mean they know how to teach a kid to read.

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Posted by: azsteve ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 03:31PM

A colleague at work was telling me how he tutored his kid in calculus at home and how his kid got an early start taking college courses before the kid graduated highschool. I realized that when I was a kid, that was not an option. Neither of my parents even knew algebra. So I think that there's nothing wrong with home schooling until the kid gets old enough to require education on topics in which the parent is not qualified to teach, much less if the parents can even understand the topic themselves. Religion classes shouldn't count as any highschool credits. I attended 6:00 AM seminary classes at the church five days per week and got zero credit for it at school.

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Posted by: westernwillows ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 03:32PM

Why is homeschooling gaining such traction? Many of my LDS and conservative Christian friends are homeschooling their kids because they don't want them exposed to all the evils in public schools. You know, those liberal viewpoints that turn every kid into an atheist (seriously, more than one person has said that to me)

I went to public school but my TBM parents kept my siblings and me quite sheltered. I hated it. I hated when my friends would talk about something and I wouldn't have a clue. I went to high school in the late 1990s/early 2000s so Google was in its infancy and my high school had pretty strict firewalls on its computers.

When I left for college I absorbed everything I could about the world. Popular culture, music, television, science, the news. I had to learn how to have conversations with people with different viewpoints (a very important skill!). I was able to find my own beliefs. I teach my daughter what I believe, but ultimately I believe it's up to her to decide what she believes. As long as she is kind to others, I don't care what those beliefs are. I want her to meet all sorts of people when she goes to public school and find a tribe that uplifts her. None of that would happen if we homeschooled.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 03:37PM

" I was able to find my own beliefs. I teach my daughter what I believe, but ultimately I believe it's up to her to decide what she believes. As long as she is kind to others, I don't care what those beliefs are."

Bingo!!! A really good parent teaches their kids HOW to think, not WHAT to think. Good job westernwillows.

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 09:32PM

"A really good parent teaches their kids HOW to think"

Ouch. A really good parent doesn't have to teach a kid HOW to think.

If a kid can follow her natural curiosity, ask the questions kids naturally ask, and pursue various possible answers without being shut down, then she'll know how to think. It happens naturally.

If, on the other hand, she grows up in an environment where she listens to lectures most of the day, has to raise her hand and give five second answers, (as opposed to have long, meandering conversations where she's an equal participant), doesn't get to choose to focus on subjects that interest her, and gets reprimanded whenever she doesn't make the authority at the front of the room happy . . . . well, she'll have to learn HOW to think someday.

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 09:44PM

What did the 1991 New York Teacher of the Year think of Public Education?

http://www.cantrip.org/gatto.html


Call me Mr. Gatto, please. Twenty-six years ago, having nothing better to do, I tried my hand at schoolteaching. My license certifies me as an instructor of English language and literature, but that isn't what I do at all. What I teach is school, and I win awards doing it.

Teaching means many different things, but six lessons are common to schoolteaching from Harlem to Hollywood. You pay for these lessons in more ways than you can imagine, so you might as well know what they are:

The first lesson I teach is: "Stay in the class where you belong." I don't know who decides that my kids belong there but that's not my business. The children are numbered so that if any get away they can be returned to the right class. Over the years the variety of ways children are numbered has increased dramatically, until it is hard to see the human being under the burden of the numbers each carries. Numbering children is a big and very profitable business, though what the business is designed to accomplish is elusive.

In any case, again, that's not my business. My job is to make the kids like it -- being locked in together, I mean -- or at the minimum, endure it. If things go well, the kids can't imagine themselves anywhere else; they envy and fear the better classes and have contempt for the dumber classes. So the class mostly keeps itself in good marching order. That's the real lesson of any rigged competition like school. You come to know your place.

Nevertheless, in spite of the overall blueprint, I make an effort to urge children to higher levels of test success, promising eventual transfer from the lower-level class as a reward. I insinuate that the day will come when an employer will hire them on the basis of test scores, even though my own experience is that employers are (rightly) indifferent to such things. I never lie outright, but I've come to see that truth and [school]teaching are incompatible.

The lesson of numbered classes is that there is no way out of your class except by magic. Until that happens you must stay where you are put.

The second lesson I teach kids is to turn on and off like a light switch. I demand that they become totally involved in my lessons, jumping up and down in their seats with anticipation, competing vigorously with each other for my favor. But when the bell rings I insist that they drop the work at once and proceed quickly to the next work station. Nothing important is ever finished in my class, nor in any other class I know of.

The lesson of bells is that no work is worth finishing, so why care too deeply about anything? Bells are the secret logic of schooltime; their argument is inexorable; bells destroy past and future, converting every interval into a sameness, as an abstract map makes every living mountain and river the same even though they are not. Bells inoculate each undertaking with indifference.

The third lesson I teach you is to surrender your will to a predestined chain of command. Rights may be granted or withheld, by authority, without appeal. As a schoolteacher I intervene in many personal decisions, issuing a Pass for those I deem legitimate, or initiating a disciplinary confrontation for behavior that threatens my control. My judgments come thick and fast, because individuality is trying constantly to assert itself in my classroom. Individuality is a curse to all systems of classification, a contradiction of class theory.

Here are some common ways it shows up: children sneak away for a private moment in the toilet on the pretext of moving their bowels; they trick me out of a private instant in the hallway on the grounds that they need water. Sometimes free will appears right in front of me in children angry, depressed or exhilarated by things outside my ken. Rights in such things cannot exist for schoolteachers; only privileges, which can be withdrawn, exist.

The fourth lesson I teach is that only I determine what curriculum you will study. (Rather, I enforce decisions transmitted by the people who pay me). This power lets me separate good kids from bad kids instantly. Good kids do the tasks I appoint with a minimum of conflict and a decent show of enthusiasm. Of the millions of things of value to learn, I decide what few we have time for. The choices are mine. Curiosity has no important place in my work, only conformity.

Bad kids fight against this, of course, trying openly or covertly to make decisions for themselves about what they will learn. How can we allow that and survive as schoolteachers? Fortunately there are procedures to break the will of those who resist.

This is another way I teach the lesson of dependency. Good people wait for a teacher to tell them what to do. This is the most important lesson of all, that we must wait for other people, better trained than ourselves, to make the meanings of our lives. It is no exaggeration to say that our entire economy depends upon this lesson being learned. Think of what would fall apart if kids weren't trained in the dependency lesson: The social-service businesses could hardly survive, including the fast-growing counseling industry; commercial entertainment of all sorts, along with television, would wither if people remembered how to make their own fun; the food services, restaurants and prepared-food warehouses would shrink if people returned to making their own meals rather than depending on strangers to cook for them. Much of modern law, medicine, and engineering would go too -- the clothing business as well -- unless a guaranteed supply of helpless people poured out of our schools each year. We've built a way of life that depends on people doing what they are told because they don't know any other way. For God's sake, let's not rock that boat!

In lesson five I teach that your self-respect should depend on an observer's measure of your worth. My kids are constantly evaluated and judged. A monthly report, impressive in its precision, is sent into students' homes to spread approval or to mark exactly -- down to a single percentage point -- how dissatisfied with their children parents should be. Although some people might be surprised how little time or reflection goes into making up these records, the cumulative weight of the objective- seeming documents establishes a profile of defect which compels a child to arrive at a certain decisions about himself and his future based on the casual judgment of strangers.

Self-evaluation -- the staple of every major philosophical system that ever appeared on the planet -- is never a factor in these things. The lesson of report cards, grades, and tests is that children should not trust themselves or their parents, but must rely on the evaluation of certified officials. People need to be told what they are worth.

In lesson six I teach children that they are being watched. I keep each student under constant surveillance and so do my colleagues. There are no private spaces for children; there is no private time. Class change lasts 300 seconds to keep promiscuous fraternization at low levels. Students are encouraged to tattle on each other, even to tattle on their parents. Of course I encourage parents to file their own child's waywardness, too.

I assign "homework" so that this surveillance extends into the household, where students might otherwise use the time to learn something unauthorized, perhaps from a father or mother, or by apprenticing to some wiser person in the neighborhood.

The lesson of constant surveillance is that no one can be trusted, that privacy is not legitimate. Surveillance is an ancient urgency among certain influential thinkers; it was a central prescription set down by Calvin in the Institutes, by Plato in the Republic, by Hobbes, by Comte, by Francis Bacon. All these childless men discovered the same thing: Children must be closely watched if you want to keep a society under central control.

It is the great triumph of schooling that among even the best of my fellow teachers, and among even the best parents, there is only a small number who can imagine a different way to do things. Yet only a very few lifetimes ago things were different in the United States: originality and variety were common currency; our freedom from regimentation made us the miracle of the world; social class boundaries were relatively easy to cross; our citizenry was marvelously confident, inventive, and able to do many things independently, to think for themselves. We were something, all by ourselves, as individuals.

It only takes about 50 contact hours to transmit basic literacy and math skills well enough that kids can be self-teachers from then on. The cry for "basic skills" practice is a smokescreen behind which schools pre-empt the time of children for twelve years and teach them the six lessons I've just taught you.

(cont. . . . for full text see link above)

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Posted by: Anonymous 2 ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 04:51PM

Common Core maybe!?? Just a guess of course!!

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 06:49PM

Anonymous 2 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Common Core maybe!?? Just a guess of course!!


it's a good guess, but the popularity of homeschooling was well underway long before the advent of Common Core. There probably are some who did actually pull their offspring from public schools because of common core, but a whole lot were already out.


I'm not a huge fan of Common Core, but many people who oppose it do so for silly reasons. I was looking at my wife's Facebook feed, and on it was one of those "order of operations" arithmetic problems, followed by people posting their answers, mostly wrong, then arguing with the others about why their wrong answers are actually correct. One of my wife's misguided friends posted her own wrong answer, then said that the reason other people got it wrong was because of Common Core. Common Core has absolutely nothing to do with the actual solutions to math problems. The answers are the same as they were thousands of years ago.

Today's math teachers teach the correct order of operations. It's just that some people never correctly learned the order of operations while others once knew it but have since forgotten, Common Core may have resulted in the exploration of multiple methods for solving problems, but it never changed the order of operations.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 01:30AM

I'm not a huge fan of the Common Core, either. The reading component is often boring and tends to downplay fiction vs. nonfiction too severely.

Math is somewhat better, and it does have its strong points. It appears to give kids a deeper understanding of the underlying concepts. Whether this will translate to higher achievement down the road is debatable. The math curriculum also tends to pound away at certain topics while ignoring (or almost ignoring) others. This is creating gaps in knowledge (i.e. a 2nd grader who can't correctly name a triangle.) It is also extremely boring. I fear that we are killing math for an entire generation of students.

However, under CC both reading and math are getting the job done adequately, and I would not consider it to be a good enough excuse to home school a child.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 04:20PM

Summer, my only major issue with the math component of Common Core was that the whole thing was based on the assumption that each grade's concepts were taught in greater depth than had happened previously, which should have negated the need to re-teach concepts from the previous year's curriculum that were not mastered by all students. Such was probably a naive assumption under the best of circumstances, but the real problem with that assumption was that, at least in the last two states in which I've lived, Common Core was introduced to all grade levels simultaneously. Students in, for the sake of argument, fifth grade when the Common Core model came into play began the study of the in-greater-depth fifth grade concepts without their fourth-grade concepts having been taught in greater depth. Many of the students presumably needed re-teaching of some fourth-grade concepts, but the Common Core model didn't allow time for it. Common Core should have started with just kindergarten, then moved up one grade each year so that there would not have been so many gaps.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2018 04:21PM by scmd1.

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Posted by: Lethbridge Reprobate ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 03:39PM

I don't have much use for home schooling, charter schools, "Christian" and separate (Catholic) schools.

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 04:02PM

Just to be clear, in the large majority of cases, the kids are just following orders. It's the parents that are the idiots. They are doing their best to pass on the trait.

LDS Inc was a full supporter of good public education from the days of BY right up until the late 1960s. I was in the primary grades in the 1950s, and I only knew of one home schooled child (clear in another stake, no less), and everyone I knew seemed to feel there was something seriously weird about that.

Most Mormons are still very supportive of public education, but the home-schooling fringe is certainly much larger than it used to be. It seems to me it is driven by fear the outside world is "winning". They have a point. I happen to think the outside world should win. Their world is a delusion.

With the Internet, good luck isolating children. That's a fool's errand if ever there was one.

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 04:03PM

My siblings and I were latch key kids before the term was invented. Our TBM parents both worked. There's no way we could have been home schooled. Mom would've been lost without her creative outlet outside of home, and the extra income it generated.

I'm glad my children went through public schools. Though it has its own ills. They learned socialization skills, became very self-motivated and self-disciplined without much help from me. And because I was a working single mom, there's no way I could've home schooled them if I'd wanted to. Besides, with the educational requirements they have I wouldn't have been able to keep up with them. They left me behind once they got into geometry and algebra.

In our Mormon enclave where I grew up no kids were home schooled. We all went to public schools. Boy, have the times changed.

My TBM bro ahd his wife home schooled my nieces and nephew for a long time in Idaho. One did very well post-high academically and now has a Master's degree. The other two barely finished high school. The boy seems a bit stunted socially. But has married, and is raising a family. They're very clannish, the whole lot of them. My SIL was like that since before marrying my bro. She raised her children to be like herself. She always looked down her nose at my brother's family, and still does. I don't know why. She kept her children from mingling with their cousins while they were growing up. Even when we were practicing TBM. So I don't think very highly of her as a result. As for her homeschooling, she isn't very educated herself, so it put her children at a disadvantage with their peers by the time they got to college age. Just one of their large brood has gone to college and graduated.

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Posted by: anonymoussunday ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 04:13PM

Maybe let's not assume that all homeschoolers are idiots, neither the parents nor their children.

Not all public schools are good. Not all public schools are safe. There are many parents who homeschool for other reasons besides religious.

I'm a teacher and also a big advocate of public education. I also have a child with autism. So far, his school experience has been positive and we're lucky to live in a high performing school district with adequate funding for services.

My son is what some people would refer to as "high-functioning". He is very smart, very social, very verbal. But he's also very quirky and a little slow to process things in more nuanced situations. Picture Sheldon from Big Bang Theory.

He is the perfect candidate for relentless teasing and bullying in middle school, and I'm bracing myself for that possibility. I would not hesitate to pull him out of school and homeschool him if public school ever fails to meet his needs or in some way makes him miserable.

Some kids are quirky, in public school or homeschool settings. So are some of their parents.

There are many secular homeschooling groups comprised of very well-educated parents using quality curriculum and materials and exposing their children to "normal" people and situations.

Your observation of a few families in your area is not necessarily the reality of other families, or even of the majority.

Please withhold judgement when you aren't aware of all the details of anyone's individual circumstances. Public schools may not meet every child's needs.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 07:02PM

As a teacher, I agree with you that safety and incidences of bullying are big factors when evaluating a school. Parents need to take a close look at the kids that go to a particular school. There are kids whom I teach that I wouldn't want a family member around. They are crude and mean, and drag others down to their level.

I've always said that home schooling is only as good as the teacher and the curriculum. Some parents choose a quality curriculum and do a very good job of it. Others throw randomly selected workbooks at their kids for a couple of hours each day, and expect that to work.

I think that there should be some way to hold home schooling parents accountable, whether it's by a portfolio review of the child's work, or through a plain vanilla standardized test (not the experiments that pass for state testing nowadays.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2018 07:02PM by summer.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 08:10PM

I'm especially not a fan of the "Smarter Balance' test given in CA, though its format has cut down on some of the rampant cheating that went on with previous state testing.

The testing of homeschooled children wouldn't even need to be all that elaborate, but in my opinion needs to be more objective and cut-and-dried, at least for reading and math, than is the typical portfolio assessment.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 04:56PM

Respect for education and the educated, and the values that Westernwillows describes, can't really be taught at home.

Success depends very much on socialization and communication. Survival depends on having a good grasp on reality, and adapting to the ever-changing world around you.

Isolation can only do harm to young humans.

My California public school was in a district with socioeconomic disparity, many different cultures and races, and the usual problems of teen drinking, gangs, vandalism. The rules were pretty-well enforced by the school staff and the local police. Parents were involved in the schools.

Every day, after school, I would leave the "evils of the real world" and walk home to my Mormon home. Waiting for me was my pedophile brother, very mean and very large. He would beat and torture me whenever he felt like it, and my parents were in denial, and said there was nothing wrong with him. But the administrators in the schools kept suspending him, reporting him to the police, trying to stop his acting out. At home, I was alone with this pervert. My mother was alway off at Relief Society, bridge club, luncheon club, musical rehearsals, working on the new church garden, etc. My brother bullied her, too. My father traveled extensively in his career. He would come home and beat me, according to an accumulated list of childish mistakes, during his absence. He didn't spank my brother, because my brother was bigger than he was, and my brother was always threatening suicide.

I couldn't wait until the weekends and summer vacations were over, and I could escape my abusive Mormon home, and be safe at school, all day!

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 06:54PM

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I couldn't wait until the weekends and summer
> vacations were over, and I could escape my abusive
> Mormon home, and be safe at school, all day!


Exminion, your childhood sounds as though it was hell. I'm sorry for what you went through.

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 05:06PM

When their kids (6, I think) finished the home-school curriculum (plus supplemental musical education), every one of those kids was able to enter the local university, and graduate with a 4-year degree.

However, most of the other local cases of home-schooling I have seen have been rather dismal. (Mormon and fundie Christian.)

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Posted by: karin ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 06:30PM

I home schooled my son while i was still a mormon. I don't think the ward liked it much cause i would n't do visiting teaching or have one over. I was now teaching and wasn't available for busy work.

One bonus for homeschooling was that i didn't have to get up to get my kid to and from seminary every morning. I'm not a morning person at all. The church didn't like that much either but let him do is books at home and give them to the teacher.

When he was finished with home schooling he went to Waterloo university and later on got a masters in economics. I took my h-schooling very seriously. Also it was fun.

My dd on th eother hand goes to school. She has anxiety and need s to be with others to keep working on her anxiety. We also live in th e country now, which means not many play dates etc.

So some of us take our children's lives seriously and do what is good for them. Obviously not all home schooling parents do i t. I ddin't hs b/c i thot the school's science curriculum was to immoral. I just want ed to be there to see my son grow and learn.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 07:19PM

It depends on the child and the quality of the homeschooling.Some kids can benefit from homeschooling, but there should be more accountibility. Kids need English,social studies ,math, and science at a minimum. Few parents are qualified to teach all of those subjects.Kids also need physical education and some exposure to art and music.They also need to have friends and associate with other kids. I am a teacher and I couldnt handle all of that. Math was never my strong subject and I have forgotten most of the algebra and geology I did have. I pity he kid with me as a math teacher. Bottom line-the teacher needs to be qualified and be held accountable. Otherwise it is going to.be a disaster.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/01/2018 10:46PM by bona dea.

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Posted by: anono this week ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 08:56PM

It may actually be racism. I have a friend who as soon as they left Utah for 'texas' they homeschooled because the schools are "too rough" I'm wondering if the real issue was more like... can you guess? (illegals?)

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Posted by: slskipper ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 11:52PM

In most of the southeast it is blacks.

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 09:28PM

As I see it, home schooling does not prepare kids for the real world. They can't seem to interact normally with others when they grow up. And good luck with them holding down a long term job.
Sometimes they get good educations but mostly not.

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Posted by: notmonotloggedin ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 12:49PM

>As I see it, home schooling does not prepare kids for the real world.<

Because the "real world" operates like public schools do? As a college educator myself I see the results of what our public schools produce every day. I'm certainly not saying no one gets a good education but I do see many poorly-educated ones. Even very bright students fall into this category. Students "expect" to pass classes and get a degree while doing very little work. Many of them are not above arguing over a grade they don't like when they have put in little to no effort. In short, they expect much and often give little. Critical-thinking skills are often lacking. How does any of that prepare them for the real world? On the contrary, most home-school educators are quite motivated and have a real interest in the success of their children. They are motivated to not only educate their kids but also to instill moral values such as hard work, perseverance and integrity, all things that are invaluable in holding down a job and interacting with other people.

> They can't seem to interact normally with others when they grow up.<

I don't know where you live or what your experience is but mine is that most home-schoolers are friendly, polite, considerate, and markedly confident.

>And good luck with them holding down a long term job.
Sometimes they get good educations but mostly not.<

You base this on what?

notmo

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 09:50PM

He bases it on his own social skills, which are on display here on the RFM bulletin board. lol

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Posted by: ookami ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 11:10PM

I think with homeschooling, it depends on who's family is homeschooling. I had a shipmate in the Navy who was homeschooled because regular school bored her. Her mother was either a registered nurse or a doctor (sorry, I can't remember which one), so she joined up trying to become a Corpsman (Navy medical).

On the other hand, there was a family in a ward I grew up in who had a reputation even among Mormons for being nucking futs. They homeschooled to keep from being contaminated by the world like all scary-religious homeschoolers, they had very little social skills, they looked down on everyone who wasn't in their clan, and they once claimed they knew when the Second Coming was going to be. Like I said, nucking futs.

Mom went to BYU-I for a degree when I was a teenager and Dad dropped out of high school, so I'm glad I went to public school. They would not have been able to do that good at teaching my sisters and me.

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Posted by: bona dea ( )
Date: July 01, 2018 11:19PM

Some public schools are pretty bad too. Home schooling can be a good option in that case. Sometimes parents get together and each teaches hat they are qualified to teach and they hire people to teach subjects they are unable to handle. There are enough kids involved that the kids are not isolated and outside activities are planned. Something like that can work well

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Posted by: Chalupa ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 11:38AM

When i sent them back to public schools they treated me like a criminal but reluctently had to admit my kids were way ahead and had to put them in advanced clases.As far as social interaction we could choose the best ones. No isolation here.

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Posted by: notmonotloggedin ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 12:31PM

People decide to pull their kids out of public schools all over the country for a variety of reasons. Just last night I had a conversation with a young mother, a good friend of my daughter who was lamenting the garbage her kids are exposed to in public school from the other kids. Some people like living in the gutter. They have no regard for how they speak around their kids nor what their children are exposed to whether it be from other people or the media. These children, of course repeat everything to the children of others who are not happy polluting their kids brains with such garbage. This young mother and her husband are not particularly religious by any means but their disgust with the public schools runs deep.

As a teacher at a local house museum educating children by the dozens from both public, private, and home-schooled situations from all over the LI (suburban NYC) area I think I am well-qualified to comment on the subject. The most well behaved, polite and intellectually curious children who attend the workshops I give are by far the home-schooled children. Furthermore, the complaint that home-schooled kids are not well socialized and "don't have any friends" is typically lodged by those who are ignorant on the subject. Home-schoolers typically engage their students with other home-schoolers on a weekly basis,regularly meeting up for various activities that enrich their educations as well as their social connections.

People who are unfamiliar with education in general may also not be aware that it doesn't take 6 hours (the length of typical school day) to teach children everything they need to be well-educated. In fact, it takes far less time to school a few children at home than it would in a public school setting. This is not only because of the time needed in managing and maneuvering numerous students through a school day but also behavioral issues and other challenges presented by educating a large group as opposed to a much smaller one.

I have no doubt that you have seen evidence of what you describe but your're certainly not describing the many home-schooled I interact with.

notmo

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 12:40PM

I think that the quality of the kids depends on the public school. I've taught at some public schools that have lovely, respectful, and well-adjusted kids. I've taught at some public schools that have many little horrors to whom I wouldn't want any decent kid exposed.

I agree with you that home schooling can definitely be a more efficient way to educate. There is no substitute for 1-on-1 instruction that is adjusted to the individual learner.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 04:42PM

I've taught on and off at a charter school for years.

The kids are home schooled yet come in twice a week for "enrichment" classes; I've taught everything from magic to history to geo-science to model-building to drama.

And I've always said: some of these kids are going to grow up to find the cure for cancer, and some of them are going to climb up in a clock tower with a rifle.

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Posted by: scmd1 ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 08:17PM

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:

>
> And I've always said: some of these kids are
> going to grow up to find the cure for cancer, and
> some of them are going to climb up in a clock
> tower with a rifle.


Part of the problem that I've observed is that the children who most need the socialization that can't necessarily be accomplished by showing up twice per week for charter school classes or whose parents aren't up to the task of formally educating them are often the ones who ARE home-schooled. I like Chicken n. backpacks' cancer cure/clock tower analogy.

The bottom line concerning any given student's success or lack of it through home-schooling centers upon the parent's reaon for wanting to homeschool the child, the parent's qualifications for doing so, and the child's social/emotional/behavioral needs. If a parent wishes to homeschool a kid because the kid doesn't take direction well, either from adults other than the parent, or even from the child's own parent, or the parent doesn't think his child should have to do anything the kid does not especially want to do, the end result of the homeschooling will be poor. That kid probably needs traditional schooling more than does the average child. The parent doesn't necessarily need to have a college degree, but if the parent providing the schooling isn't reasonably adept with academics, he or she probably shouldn't be homeschooling even with accredited curriculum. With most behavioral issues, the parent may temporarily minimize conflict by educating the kid at home, but in the long run, the kid's problems will be compounded. If a kid is a real pain in the butt, parents may be doing teachers and the other students a favor by homeschooling, but it's probably at the expense of the child's needs.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2018 08:30PM by scmd1.

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 09:55PM

We went to different schools. God, I was bored. I stared at the clock for hours on end. I gazed out the window with a finger keeping my place in the book. It was torture.

Looking back I wish could have stayed home with a pile of books - reading, running around the neighborhood, fishing, playing music . . . it worked all Summer. I learned from observing, reading, writing and talking. School just got in the way - until I had to get the pedigree and then I went from being one of the worst performers to one of the best. It's not for everyone.


"It is the great triumph of schooling that among even the best of my fellow teachers, and among even the best parents, there is only a small number who can imagine a different way to do things." John Taylor Gatto

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Posted by: blindguy ( )
Date: July 02, 2018 09:43PM

I am very impressed with SCMD1's comments on this topic. I note that many of the responders who support home schooling seem to support more how well-behaved the home-schooled kids are or how they aren't learning "immoral" science (actually since the sciences don't teach morality, the proper terminology for that subject may be amoral, not immoral). I am also not convinced that the majority of people doing home schooling are knowledgeable enough to do the job properly--such people usually have jobs that take up enough of their time to make home schooling not really feasible for them.

To me, the biggest tragedy of the home schooling movement is the rejection of the evolutionary and biological sciences in favor of Creationism and the like. Many of the top jobs of both today and tomorrow will require a major understanding of these sciences, and the fact that many religious parents are not educating their offspring in these areas is only going to make it more difficult for the offspring to find well-paying employment in the future.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2018 06:52AM by blindguy.

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Posted by: Visitors Welcome ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 07:03AM

blindguy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> To me, the biggest tragedy of the home schooling
> movement is the rejection of the evolutionary and
> biological sciences in favor of Creationism and
> the like. Many of the top jobs of both today and
> tomorrow will require a major understanding of
> these sciences, and the fact that many religious
> parents are not educating their offspring in these
> areas is only going to make it more difficult for
> the offspring to find well-paying employment in
> the future.

Very good point. In a global economy, how are these kids going to compete with the 1.5 million engineers that India alone produces each year? Even Iran now produces almost as many engineers as the USA.

The answer is simple. They are not going to compete. They are going to lose. Education is what made America great. Lack of it will push it in a downward spiral. But maybe it's already begun...

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Posted by: Sweets ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 01:26AM

I seem to be the only homeschooling parent among all these commenters. My two youngest sons were homeschooled all through school, from kindergarten through 12th grade. I've seen the good, bad, and indifferent homeschooling families. Overall, however, the families we met were quite diligent about educating their children. Ironically, the one family that I knew that fit the description of the homeschooler who let their kids watch TV all day and whose kids couldn't read by 4th grade, ended up with two well-adjusted, hardworking, and smart adults who basically taught themselves,

So be careful of labeling people who homeschool until you know their circumstances. I did not want to homeschool, but we were faced with a terrible situation - quite literally no place in the educational environment for my youngest son. He had profound inability to speak, to form sounds. He was tested for everything but basically the diagnosis was, "he can't talk." Public school wanted to put him in special Ed from day one. A very long story of that horrible two week experience which I will skip here. Private schools rejected this smart and sweet little boy. So, we figured it's not rocket science - we started with kindergarten and just kept going. My other son basically joined us too since they were only 11 months apart in age and so very close. Fast forward: both in college. My nonverbal son now is a very erudite and enthusiastic history major.

My 13 years experience of homeschooling is just too long to post here. Would I homeschool my grandchildren? No. Do I regret homeschooling? No, not at all. I gave my kids a great education. High school, however, nearly defeated me. It was tough, tough, tough. I was stringent beyond what my public schooled kids had to attain and the paperwork for our state-sponsored "umbrella" group was insane. By high school level, I had finally found a private school that worked like a college curriculum. My kids could pick their classes, schedule, and teachers. They also did dual enrollment in their senior year. Basically, I was the educator through 9th grade and then it was private school and dual enrollment.

Now, I'm "retired" and like the freedom of not worrying about lessons!

This person posted it best:

Some kids are quirky, in public school or homeschool settings. So are some of their parents.

There are many secular homeschooling groups comprised of very well-educated parents using quality curriculum and materials and exposing their children to "normal" people and situations.

Your observation of a few families in your area is not necessarily the reality of other families, or even of the majority.

Please withhold judgement when you aren't aware of all the details of anyone's individual circumstances. Public schools may not meet every child's needs.

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Posted by: PollyDee ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 11:01AM

Sweets, I am also a homeschooling parent. We started homeschooling when, at the age of five, our oldest child was diagnosed with a rare lung disease that was also damaging his heart. All four of my children "graduated" from high school with an Associate's degree. All four went on to complete Bachelor's degrees - 3 with scholarships. My oldest went on to receive a full scholarship and graduate from a top tier Law School. All have been very successful in their respective professions.

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Posted by: Visitors Welcome ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 03:21AM

Home schooling misses the purpose of schooling entirely.

School is about being exposed to science and the arts. It's about learning from many different specialists in many different fields. It's about engaging in debate with people from different backgrounds, generations and social classes. It's about getting in touch with other people and their knowledge, their ambitions, their pet subjects, their experience.

And school is not just about the teachers, but also about the pupils. So it is also about learning to interact with peers who are very different, to co-exist, to cooperate, to understand each other, and sometimes to agree to disagree.

I've never heard of a Nobel Prize winning scientist who homeschooled her kids, have you? Somehow great geniuses know the value of diversity in education. Every time I hear about people who homeschool their kids, both parents and kids seem to be total twats. As the saying goes, "a wise man is constantly consumed by doubts, but an idiot is always certain he's right". And then he passes it on to his darn kids.

You haven't been schooled if you've been homeschooled.

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Posted by: PHIL ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 07:50AM

Most high class groups send their kids to private schools which truly isolatr kids in the yuppy world.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 09:05AM

I read a news story about a home schooling dad who helped his kids get into top universities including Harvard. Again, the quality of home schooling is heavily dependent on the teacher and the curriculum.

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Posted by: PollyDee ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 09:52AM

Wow, VW, in my experience public schools were all about survival.

As to your claim that Nobel Prize winning scientists do not homeschool. How about one that was homeschooled?

https://www.homeschool.com/blog/2009/10/nobel-prize-for-physics-goes-to-a-man-that-was-homeschooled

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Posted by: PollyDee ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 09:58AM


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Posted by: PollyDee ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 10:06AM

Perhaps you caught the name of the last "idiot" on that list - Albert Einstein.

"Einstein described himself as “a conscientious but unassuming young man who had acquired his meagre store of pertinent knowledge of the essentials through self study...Eager for deeper understanding but endowed with few prerequisites and burdened with a poor memory.” It was around this time that Albert first performed his famous thought experiment, visualizing himself traveling alongside a beam of light."

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Posted by: jay ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 11:10AM

It sounds like you were not only brainwashed by religion, but you’ve been brainwashed by the government to believe that the government can educate your children better than you can.

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Posted by: dagny ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 07:47AM

I'm suspicious of home schooling when:

The education the child receives is aligned with the religion of the parents. The child is protected from facts and reality that ultimately stunts their thinking and knowledge of the world. This was bad enough at BYU, let alone some fanatic family.

This costs us all because it diverts community support in our schools. The parents do not contribute their support to the public schools and then bitch about how bad the public schools are. What message is the kid getting about being team payers and learning to interact with others who are different? Sheltering and isolating is not a good plan for learning to appreciate diversity and poverty.

Arrogant parents who fancy themselves experts on every topic because they read the book with their kid.


Edit added: Some states like mine are busy trying to change laws to divert funds from public schools to private religious schools and home schools. As they remove more resources from schools, it exacerbates the problems at the schools.

Sure, there are many exceptions. I get that. I don't have any answers. My kids survived public schools and like all the home school parents, I think my kids are brilliant too! ;D



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2018 07:56AM by dagny.

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Posted by: TX Rancher ( )
Date: July 03, 2018 11:29AM

I have some thoughts about home schooling, many summed up here, and admittedly only based on limited perceptions. Some parents might be good teachers and some curriculum might be good....but the opposite is also possible.

I could never do it. I could barely teach my daughter to drive (instead of her going to driving school, which is allowed here in Texas.) Much of our logs were, uh, falsified just to get her to the point to take the driver's exam and be done with it. I wasn't qualified nor had the patience to do it. Thought I could, but alas no!

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