My inlaws are TBM. They were devastated by us leaving, but it's been several years and we continue to have a relationship with them. They are retired. We had to have a serious sit down with them a few years ago, setting a boundary they were not allowed to talk to our child about religion. They had a hard time with it, but ultimately agreed. We do not practice any religion and this has been supremely concerning to them. They wish we'd at least raise our child with a belief in God. We have the only grandchild near them, also the only non-mo.

We lived with them for a period of time when we moved back, before we bought a house, and still live in the same town as them. When they take extended trips, we cut their lawn, water flowers, gather mail, etc.

Two years ago, when they were gone, we retrieved some files we had on their computer from when we lived with them. In this process, we saw a file with our child's name. We opened it. We discovered they were writing child a letter every year on Birthday, and saying 'all the things they wish they could now that we aren't okay with.' It was clear they plan to give child these when 18.

Additionally, we are renovating our house and FIL is at our house for EVERY project. He texts my husband in between asking about plans, when next project us, etc. MIL tells my husband that he needs to keep his dad busy and to 'involve' him....

MIL garage sale shops for child's school wardrobe every summer, gives it to us, then says she wants anything back we won't use.

Last year, my MIL went around me, spoke directly to the teacher and wanted to volunteer and n my child's classroom weekly, helping with reading groups or whatever (she's a retired teacher. Then INFORMED me that's what she was going to do a few days before the start of the year....

She also tried to set up a full family bday party (meaning both sides) at THEIR house, without talking to me and the only reason I knew was because she invited MY mom in front of me in a public setting.

They have an expectation to see our child weekly and have recently been worked up about wanting to just have time alone with child to do things. Our child is very active in sports and extra-curricular activities... they drop comments every time we go over there as a family about how they don't see our child enough. MIL guilt trips husband and says how much she 'misses' our child and wants to see child more.

And on the topic of extra-curricular.... they would want to be invited to and attend every activity, so long as it didn't interfere with church stuff...

Recently, they took a mutual friend out for dinner to ask advice about something unrelated and then MIL went into a whole tirade about not getting to see our child enough, how they worry that we aren't raising child in a religion, etc. then said she was going to start being more aggressive. The friend said it was clear she wanted the message to get back to us.

I have taken family trips with them and seen from the backseat MIL texting my husband's sisters, talking about me and us. When we lived there, I saw an email where my MIL was talking to a friend of hers and said something judgmental and unkind about me.

My husband was BIC. I was a non-mo that he married anyway, converted after a few years, was active a few years, then we left.

I think a lot of people would say they are so loving, supportive, helpful, etc.
Husband feels bad for them.

I don't feel that way about them at all. Thoughts?

Many people deal with extensional purpose questions in their lives. From what you've described that's what I would diagnose. Everyone wants to feel that they are of value and making a difference. But this world has many problems and there are lots of unhappy situations that human beings find themselves in.

We think back to the past and remember it as being bounteous, and blessed, with large happy families, all delight some,... maybe it was and maybe it wasn't. And no doubt some grandparents have very charmed existences where nothing is out of place and are beloved by all (Russel Nelson).

I say tread carefully on this. It's a giant issue. Be thoughtful what you say. Be nice.

There's a fine line between "supportive" and "controlling."

They've crossed it, IMHO.

It's not surprising, sadly -- many mormons have no concept whatsoever of boundaries, and nearly all have no concept whatsoever of any kind of life outside their church. To them, you're evil -- and it's their *duty* to prevent your evil from landing on THEIR grandchild (not your child).

I pretty much dealt with this pre-emptively before I even got married. Had the (difficult) conversation with my TBM mom: no pushing or talking about mormonism around me, and any future wife/kids. Period. If it happened, I'd stop seeing her (and that included any future family). It took her about a year, but she finally decided that seeing family was more important than trying to make them what she wanted, and she gave in.

I would suggest a similar conversation with your in-laws. Hopefully your husband supports that...and don't be afraid to follow through if (or rather when, 'cause they will) they break the rules.

Good luck.

Wow. What a mess. I didn't think anyone could be worse than my MIL.

I feel for you.

Unfortunately, unless your husband is firmly in your corner, you're fighting a very hard battle.

I'm sure you already know this is a boundary issue.

My MIL life's goal was to stomp through any boundaries I placed on her.

I ended up not seeing or speaking to her for seven years. I made sure I didn't stand in the way between she and her son or our kid.

I don't suggest my way if you can help it. It was the only way I could cope at the time--my older daughter had died by suicide and I had no energy to play my MIL's games.

The only smidge of advice: Accept gifts only--no regular stuff with strings attached. Accept no help if at all possible.


Maybe of interest--my (younger) daughter has almost nothing to do with her grandmother. My MIL ignored her Facebook coming out with her delightful girlfriend. MIL still voices hope that my kid will find a nice guy and have children. She knows my kid doesn't want kids and has health issues. MIL places zero value on my daughter's mad skills as an ICU nurse with a Master's degree. It's hopeless.


I think accepting that hopelessness is key.

You and your husband need to decide together what you will and will not do to please them. They have to understand that the two of you are united as a team and are the parents. They are not parents and need to find other interests to fill in for the parenting they're longing for. Did MIL help in your child's room or just suggest that she wanted to do it. Perhaps she could find another school with a teacher who would love to have her. It doesn't sound like it would be a good idea for her to be in your child's room except for perhaps one or two special events during the year. This is a challenge. I wish you luck and warn that you need to stay strong and be vigilant. Good luck.

Just one comment about them feeling like not seeing their grandchild enough.

That is often a common feeling for grandparents, Mormon or otherwise, when they want to see the child more, and don't get to.

So, I wouldn't blame that specifically on Mo-ism.

two grand kids five hours away in St George, one in Seattle. Don't get to see them near enough. :(

Your spouse may need to set some clear boundaries for his mother,in particular. Her sense of entitlement and continual interference may need to be curtailed, restricting her contact with your child, especially if she becomes more aggressive as she has indicated.

Your child needs protection, also. He needs to know how to deal with g/ma and g/pa when they are doing things that conflict with what you and his father want.

You and your spouse need to be on the same page, have a game plan and work together. The responsibility is on your spouse's shoulders to talk to his parents. He may have to set some restrictions and consequences that you both agree on.

Your joint responsibility is the best interest of your child. That comes first, always. Somehow the g/parents will need to respect your rights as the parents and not do anything to conflict with your wishes. Might be difficult, and some big changes might need to be made.

This issue with interfering, intrusive grandparents is not exclusive to Mormonism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/12/2018 06:35PM by SusieQ#1.

If your child wants to 'favor' his g-ma over you, you've already lost the battle.

If your child loves you more and puts you ahead of g-ma, you have to use that advantage. I'd tell the truth to your child about g-ma and encourage the child to pick a side, your side.

You've said nothing about your child's attitude or feelings about religion. Has your child picked a title under which to operate? You know, deist, Free Range Christian, agnostic, atheist...? That'd be a good thing to know. And if the decision is a course that is antagonistic to mo'ism, and not to you, encourage the hell out of it and flaunt it in g-ma's face.

I'd go to battle with g-ma over her plans for a child of mine, but I'd worry about losing the war if there's a chance your DH isn't your ally.

Not raising your child as a mormon is NOT child abuse, whereas raising your child as a mormon might be!

Keep us posted, since the entertainment value and the chance a mormon gets a poke in the nose, is all 'upside' for me...

We have not educated our child a lot about religion. I would not say child is educated enough to make any choice. However, when I ask child whether child wants grandparents to babysit, or teen babysitter, she picks the teen over grandparents. She thinks grandparents are not very fun by comparison and really only wants to hang with them if they want to take child to a movie or something....

Inlaws frequently have the missionaries over for dinner and are involved with 'the youth' on Wednesday nights, and have other church families over a lot that have kids. It totally wouldn't surprise me if they were trying to get daughter over to their house and then just 'happened' to have another church family stop by and suddenly my child was playing with church family's kids, forming relationships, etc.....

Not that I'm against child forming friendships with anyone in particular, but because it would be a manipulation tactic - fellowshipping, etc

A grandparent volunteering regularly in a grandchild's classroom works up through a certain age -- maybe 2nd or 3rd grade. After that, it becomes an embarrassment to the child. I say this as a teacher who *loved* having a grandparent volunteer, and who kept that volunteer when her grandchild moved up to the next grade. She was still available if her grandchild had a problem or got sick during the school day, but she wasn't all over him. Talk to your child's teacher (or principal if necessary) if you are uncomfortable with having the grandmother in the room on a regular basis, and they will put a stop to it. But consider that depending on the circumstances, it could be a very good thing.

A lot of what your in-laws are doing seems okay to me. They obviously love their son and their grandchild, and are trying to make it work with you. As long as they are not talking to your child about religion, I would grant them the alone time. As a kid who *never* had a family member show up at my athletic meets (there were reasons, but still...) if the grandparents want to cheer your kid on, why not? Your child will feel loved and supported by two generations of family.

What I *would* do is to start educating your child about religion in general and Mormonism in particular, geared to the child's level of understanding. Maybe save the harder hitting things until your child is in the 12-15+ age range with a warning that the child's grandparents have some wacky beliefs that should be respected, along with ways to handle their eventual proselytizing.

Good luck. I know it's not easy. I think my advice to you is to treasure the good things, and draw boundaries where you must.

I have been thinking a lot about the 'Mormon inoculation' lately... trying to figure out how to begin and what to say. Child is 8. Is anyone familiar with books or have something that worked well with their own children?

I told my kids when they were around 6 (well, 2 of 'em, one is only 3 now!), when TBM grandma came to visit, that grandma belongs to a church that I used to believe in, but don't anymore. That we won't make fun of grandma for believing in it, but we won't take part in it, either.

My son just said, "OK." And that was that. For pretty much the rest of his life (he's 21 now).

My daughter (17 now) asked a few questions, such as "why did you believe it if it's wrong?" and "Why does grandma believe it if it's wrong?" I answered them honestly (raised in it, I didn't question it really until I was in my 20's, grandma has been in it all her life and still doesn't question it, etc.). Then she was fine.

The kids love their TBM grandma -- she never talks about mormonism (or any other religion) when she visits.

Grandma loves her grandkids -- they don't tell her she's wacky for believing in mormonism.

Everybody just acts like human beings, and enjoys each others' company, rather than act like religious/anti-religious zealots. It's all good.

No books needed :)

dogeatdog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I have been thinking a lot about the 'Mormon
> inoculation' lately... trying to figure out how
> to begin and what to say. Child is 8. Is anyone
> familiar with books or have something that worked
> well with their own children?


Books for Children:



Maybe Yes, Maybe No: A Guide for Young Skeptics, by Dan Barker
Encourages having an open mind and checking things out to find the truth, rather than blindly accepting everything we hear.

Maybe Right, Maybe Wrong: A Guide for Young Thinkers, by Dan Barker
Discusses learning right from wrong, stressing such aspects as the difference between rules and principles and the importance of an individual's rights.

Just Pretend: A Freethought Book for Children, by Dan Barker
This illustrated book for freethinking children examines religions and myths like God and Santa Claus. Overtly freethought, it encourages the child to make his or her own decisions about religion, and champions skepticism, atheism, and informed doubt.

If You Had to Choose, What Would You Do? (Paperback)
by Sandra McLeod Humphrey,
"The situations presented in this book...can help you talk with children about important moral and social issues."

How Do You Know It's True?: Discovering the Difference Between Science and Superstition (Paperback)
by Hyman Ruchlis
Discusses the difference between science and superstition, the basic nature of science as a way of thinking, and the ways in which amazing events can be explained rationally.
One reviewer: Excellent introductory book on the acquisition of knowledge, with special emphasis on the reliability and utility of the scientific method. A must read for children. I would also recommend it to older adults who are lacking in knowledge concerning the scientific method and how sound logic and reasoning is applied.

Critical Thinking : Book 1 (1201) (Paperback)
by Anita Harnadek
One reviewer: This book teaches logic and argumentation in a simple form. It also teaches how to recognize propaganda and reasoning errors. I have enjoyed learning from this book and I have used it with my children with excellent results.

http://www.parentingbeyondbelief.com/

Thanks!

It can be easy for many of us to look at the situation and think she is just a grandmother who wants to be involved,but this lady sounds like she is a control freak and it is all about saving your child. I tend to wonder how involved she'd want to be if you were active and doing what she thought you should do.

I would definitely talk to the teacher and principal about NOT having her volunteer in school.

My kids' grandparents weren't very involved in their lives, especially my ex's. My mother and dad were more involved, but there were reasons they weren't.

I had wonderful grandparents on BOTH SIDES. They were all mormon, but they weren't TBM. Not once did any of my grandparents talk to me about religion. They attended my confirmation, but nothing else. In fact, most of them didn't attend church at all. I had grandparents who were both deaf and the other 2 had issues with the mormons so didn't attend. My grandparents didn't interfere or control and yet we spent untold amounts of time with them. In fact, we took turns staying overnight at our deaf graadmother's house when she became a widow. We argued over who got to go. We spent too many hours every summer at the farm and my grandparents lived there. That is the kind of healthy involvement grandparents should hav

thats how I feel - like she’s controlling in a passively manipulative way

I don't buy that MIL just wants to see more of the kids like any other grandmother. She wants to save the kid. She has an agenda. Most grandparents just want to have a get together and share some food and don't stalk the kids.

My parents did somewhat the same as your MIL with two of their grand children. The Mom was a Nevermo and so they were sure they needed to intervene to give the kids a shot of Mormoninsm. Neither grandchild is active Mormon now and both were appalled at being religiously harassed in a "loving way" for much of their teens. They were offended when they were given LDS books on chastity and took it as an accusation. In the end one doesn't even see my parents anymore at all and the other does duty visits and calls. I would say they hated seeing their mother disrespected by my parents.

What MIL is doing can backfire big time, but there is no guarantee of that. So, I would say the key to the situation is your relationship with your child. Open communication and listening, discussion, adult like. They need to learn how the big wide world works. They need to see how many choices they have and how many great things they can pack into their lives. Hopefully they will come to understand how sad it is that Grandma MIL has limited herself to such a small serving when 'life is a banquet."

I was fed only the Mormon pablum all my life and always wondered if I had just had any idea how the world worked, what it had to offer, if I wouldn't have been able to get out of Mormonism sooner.

I'm with you, D&D. MIL is up to something and it won't be pretty. Dog, I think I'd ask your child about what MIL talks about.

My step-mother tried to indoctrinate my daughter into the catholic church despite my requests that they not do that. My in-laws (also catholic) respected my request. When she was in high school, she said that she'd like to consider religion. I told her to go for it, but that I wouldn't allow any sort of baptism until she was 18. Frankly, it took 2 trips with friends to their services that she decided it was BS. I was so proud!

In any case, it's probably time for some frank discussions with your child about religion and grandma.

Good luck to you!

You mention your child is 8. Is the grandparents new push related to this being baptism age? If so, you might need to address it directly.

This thought had crossed my mind.... they have another granddaughter who is a month younger than mine and she of course was baptized in the last few months.
A part of me thinks that may have pushed them into really thinking about it again and feeling 'responsible' to give my child that opportunity since we as parents 'are not doing our job' in their opinion.

You remind me of me a little because I was always suspicious of hidden motives and exposing my children to fun Mormon experiences In case it would make them want to go to church.

On the other hand I’m a grandma and I would hate not to be able to treat my grandchildren to a movie or shopping trip or overnight stay at grandmas. I think it’s time for another talk with grandma. In a kind way let her know your expectations for time alone with your child and that you need her to clear any plans with you. I see no harm if grandparents go to sports or activities. That’s normal and healthy for a child to have family support.

Once your child is 18 if grandma wants to give her letters she will and you can’t really control that but you can prepare her, teach her to think critically and let her know why mom and dad believe what they do.

If grandma is truly agressive in church related stuff with your child not just wanting loving contact I’d agree that only supervised time is appropriate.

Your In-laws sound like my parents. Selfish. Hidden agendas related to Moism. My parents tried to indoctrinate my daughter about 2 years ago...which to my advantage led me to finding this here website! Yay! I have officially resigned and have decided I will not support the indoctrination of children. I will NOT attend any more baptisms because I'm just being nice and supporting family. Nope. Won't do it. I've been asked to play the piano at several baptisms for family over the years of me being 'inactive' and have kindly obliged. No more.

My parents live 2 miles from me and see my kids plenty. Then they complain they hardly get to see them at all....uh maybe because they're too busy with church garbage SEVEN days a week! Don't fall for it. They have a hidden agenda. I've tried to set very firm boundaries with my parents regarding Moism and my children, and although they seem to agree at the time...they ALWAYS start up again after a period of time. And they wonder why my relationship with them is strained! Be very careful to protect your kids...

I've been in your position. My mother was a hardcore TBM who believed absolutely everything she was told by the LDS church. I left the church in my late teens. In spite of the difficult relationship I had with her, I didn't feel comfortable cutting her out of the lives of my two daughters. I tried to set boundaries, I didn't want my daughters having any exposure to any LDS belief systems, and I tried over and over to get my mother to keep within the boundaries I set for her but she arrogantly believed she had the right to do whatever she wanted.

I really, really regret not cutting her out of my life decades ago. I am estranged permanently from her now. The final straw was when my youngest daughter turned 18 and went off to college and my mother wrote to her and said that now she was an adult my daughter (and her sister) could form a close relationship with her and leave me behind. In her completely delusional brain my mother thought I was some sort of devil that was keeping my daughters captive, and now that they were adult and free my daughters would choose to be with her instead and join the LDS church. I really had no idea that my mother despised me so much, and I was just shocked to my core that she was prepared to play such a long game, and that she managed to keep a pleasant facade going when around me for over 20 years.

Mormons believe that they will be in the celestial kingdom for eternity, and time on earth is just a blip, and some of them seem to think the ends justify all the means when trying to get their descendents converted so they can join them in the celestial kingdom. I was nothing to my mother in the end, just an apostate who had been swayed by the devil, and I was an irritating impediment stopping her doing what she wanted with her grandchildren.

My daughters would have had a better childhood had I cut my mother out when they were born. My mother was always causing me stress with her inability to keep within my boundaries, and I also struggled for years with my own issues caused with the LDS brainwashing I had endured before I left the cult. It would have been so much better had I left the entire part of my LDS life behind, including my mother. OP, I wish you all the best with your difficult situation,

That's about where I'm at.... it's continually causing me a lot of stress....
Also, I'm feeling like they're playing 'the long game'.

I also agree with the advice to talk to your daughter, she will, I believe, surprise you with her understanding and also her ability to tell you what she desires. I personally think that your MIL has an agenda and boundary issues. I agree that you and your husband together need to talk, and then I suggest both of you talking with your daughter. Perhaps, with a plan, you will not need to confront his mother directly because you have taken control of the situation and set the parameters.

Your job as a parent, as I see it, is to keep your daughter safe and teach her how to get along in this world, to find happiness and help her know and choose a moral compass by observation, asking questions, and learning to think critically. And, this time, right now, with this issue happening, provides an excellent opportunity!

As a grandmother, another suggestion I have is that all of us like praise and thanks, and your remarks make me think that your MIL does do deeds that deserve appreciation. I do not mean to imply that you don't do this, but maybe surprise her in some special way, remembering that some of where her actions are coming is she genuinely believes that with the way things are going, she has failed in her mission to keep her family in the one true church meaning they will not be together in heaven.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/15/2018 02:28AM by presleynfactsrock.