Many parents and local ward members bully young people to go on missions. Teens are afraid of saying no because of losing face, friends, family, and girl friends. I call this coercion mistreatment.

Once on the mission, they are not allowed privacy, access to family, good food, medical care, entertainment, or current news. More mistreatment.

They are forced to approach and do a hard sell to strangers who have no interest in their faulty product. More mistreatment.

Do any of these mormons see this as mistreatment? Seldom.

But they constantly fret about how non-mormons might be reacting to being hassled. They complain if someone won't answer their door or if they close it before the mishie has a chance to engage them in conversation. They expect strangers in their homes to offer drinks, rest, and bathroom facilities to missionaries. They're upset if someone doesn't invite mishies inside when they've been told multiple times to please not return.

Mormons often call nonmos unkind for treating missionaries the same way mormons would treat any unwanted sales pest or JW at their door. All of this when it's the mormons who treat their missionaries far worse than non-members do.

Non-members would rather these kids were in school and at home dating, earning, and preparing for a productive future. They wouldn't think of withholding these advantages from their own kids and don't want others to do it to mormon kids.

If mishies need food, water, friendship, rest, bathroom access or other basics, I think their mormon leaders need to step up and provide for them. It's unfair to expect nonmos to coddle religious fanatical missionaries at their doors when mormons refuse to treat their own young peopl with any measure of decency.

Strange is man as he seeks after his God

I see missionaries every single day. I live a few blocks from Temple Square, and walk through there regularly. They generally leave me alone (I'm sure most of them recognize me by now), and walking like I'm going somewhere probably helps. If someone does talk to me, I have no trouble convincing them I am not in need of saving.

Actually, if I see someone with a Brazilian-sounding name, I will chat for a while. It happens. We both seem to enjoy the break, and I get to dust off my Portuguese. I don't bother to mention that I am an exMo. None of them have ever asked a question that would "out" me as an exMo. It's a polite, superficial encounter.

I don't coddle them. I don't argue with them. I usually say or nod hello, and go on my way. The few times someone insisted on talking when I had signaled that I was moving on, I waved and wished them a nice day, talking over them if necessary, and moving on.

I just try to treat them with good manners and common decency. Of course I have zero compunction about walking away if I feel like they are trying to verbally hold me hostage. Some might consider that bad manners. I consider it defending my personal space. Works for me. I consider missionary interference in my life to be negligible, and I see them All. The. Time.

I guess I didn't make that clear.

And I'm a non-Mo, explaining how I deal with missionaries. I try to treat them with dignity and respect. Not that complicated. I imagine their families would approve.

I'm pretty sure I made myself clear.

You're welcome.

I agree wholeheartedly with this thread's premise, but I prefer to say the MormonCult's program of indoctrinating teens to serve missions is CHILD ABUSE. Plus, the fact that parents go along with it means they are participating in child abuse.

It is a damaging, horrific program. Let grown-ups serve missions if and when they feel the desire, not children who have no idea what they are getting into nor do they have experience living on their own and they definitely have not had a chance to learn in depth about other religions, the history of religion, the anthropology of religion, etc. etc. etc.

I agree that Mormons want and expect others to coddle their mishie children. Maybe some of this is due to some guilt they feel for being a part of this teen-child-abuse-disgusting- program.

Mormon missionaries are not well trained in religions, history, The Bible or other subjects they need to know to do their job properly.

I think one reason mormons treat mishies so badly is because they want to incite pity among "investigators" in hopes that they will give mishies food, water, and a place to rest. In this way they're encouraging opportunities for interaction and possible conversion.

Cheryl Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I think one reason mormons treat mishies so badly
> is because they want to incite pity among
> "investigators" in hopes that they will give
> mishies food, water, and a place to rest. In this
> way they're encouraging opportunities for
> interaction and possible conversion.


Interesting! I'd never thought of this, but you're onto something here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2018 05:28PM by scmd1.

Also, how can parents, relatives, etc NOT be bothered by them getting sent to dangerous, third world countries, which the church has no conscience, sending them. They then get upset if the poor person comes or tries to come home early, at the expensive of their life or health, physically and mentally

Well said, and I so agree. A teen, being sent to say Haiti, which the cult used to do, don't know if they still do, has NO idea of what lies ahead. Haiti used to have the distinction (ha, ha) of being the poorest and sanitarily the most unsafe place in the world.

So, as a parent, you have attempted to take care of your child giving them proper nutrition, regular health check-ups, etc. and then you are told, not asked mind you, that this is where the Lord has called your child to be a missionary.

Or pick a lot of other third world countries - say in Africa, Central and South America, etc. etc.

I spoke out then when this happened to my teen, and I speak out now. It is dangerous child abuse in so many areas, area that Cheryl names. Teens are in a very, very precarious position that can, and does, lead to health issues of all colors, mental health issues that can last a lifetime, injury, and even death.

I get irate, as you can tell, about this subject!

It's all good, if individually, we like to talk to missionaries in a foreign language, or if we are a need of company, or if we want to feel like Good Samaritans in giving them food and water.

BUT--I think Brother of Jerry and others would re-think their kindness towards the missionaries, if those missionaries went and interfered in the lives of their own family members and friends. Allow the missionaries to baptize someone they love, break up a marriage in their own family, entrap a niece who is a lonely student away from home, and the do-gooders will change their minds.

We need to step back and look at the purpose of missionaries, and their cult-serving goals. If we help the missionaries, we help the cult.

I agree that this is child abuse. Mormons have found fear and threats to be more effective motivational tools kindness and rewards--and love.

After I left the cult, I came to the conclusion that Mormons treat their own, and each other, WORSE than they treat those who are not in their cult. They were very abusive to my children, including physical abuse, until we left.

I'm assertive with the missionaries, because I see more abuse down the road--abuse to innocent people who join, abuse to children, and more abuse in the lives of the missionaries and their children. I'm against that.

It is also dangerous to send young adults into homes of complete strangers.

That IMO is just plain stupid and irresponsible on the part of their handlers, including their over zealous parents.

Also, the more backwards the country, ( vs a “ posh” European country) ,the more respect and bragging rights their parents have. They get more positive attention, while the poor kid is doing all the work.

Before I was married at the age of 25, I endured years of nagging from fellow members to go on a mission. They seemed to think that since I had not managed to land a TBM RM and produce babies for the church, it was my duty to make it up to the poor suffering institution by serving a mission. Besides fearing the ill treatments mentioned in this thread, I worried about what would happen after the mission was served. Where would I go? Having given up a decent job and a secure place to live, how was I supposed to survive? I knew the church was not going to offer me anything other than maybe some Desert canned goods and possibly a place to stay with some grudging members who would grumble about my presence all the time (an earlier experience as a late teen trying to escape an abusive home). I figured they would counsel me to go home, live with my abusive mother again, and "bring her into the church".

I don't understand a church that doesn't train their missionaries--it's just sheer waste. Then send them out to face abuse and neglect. Then take no responsibility for what happens to them after they return. They seem to think that everybody comes from a good home which they can easily return to. Ill educated missionaries are a laughing-stock to the Christian world. How can the LDS ever hope to mainstream, when other missionaries have to sweat it out at theological seminaries, or get special Bible training? Other churches actually take care of their missionaries.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/21/2018 07:00PM by Josephina.

I wasn't bullied into going on a mission. I wasn't afraid of saying no because of losing face, friends, family, or girl friends. I never felt forced or coerced. Having been born in the church, for me it was more like...that is what you did when you turned 19 years old, went on a mission. I never witnessed this so called bullying or coercion with myself or my friends. I certainly didn't bully my son. Quite the opposite. I explained in great detail what he was going into and gave him my opinion that he shouldn't go. He went anyways.

As far as your list of "mistreatments"...nawwwwww. Lack of privacy, access to family, forced to sell, blah, blah, blah. Every one of the things you mentioned are not things that suddenly dropped out of the sky on a missionary's head. I knew going in about ALL of those things.

To me the problem might be...when the missionary becomes disenchanted, burned out, loses faith, etc., why not just walk away? Courage is sometimes difficult to muster once expectations come into play. That is why I tell every prospective missionary I meet who is questioning going that it is WAY easier to not go than to go and come home early.

The missionaries I have had knock on my door don't NEED food, water, friendship, rest, bathroom access or other basics. In fact, in talking with them, the members DO provide those things for them. Where I live, members invite them into their homes and feed them every night. For me, I realize that there MIGHT be a missionary or two who wishes they WERE home...but lack the courage to leave. I offer them the opportunity to relax, let their guard down, and be themselves in a non-Mormon controlled atmosphere. I show them an example of a cool-headed ex-Mormon who cares for their safety and well being. I want them to see that some "god", religion, or hope for "blessings" is not required to just be a decent human being. The LAST thing I want to do is reinforce what they have been told about ex-mos being angry, bitter, ranting/raving lunatics. Those idiots give ex-mo's a bad name.

Just sayin'

If there is no coercion or unmet needs and expectations are so mild?

My experience was that once on the mission, expectations were anything but mild. Once that commitment was made the expectations were far greater from EVERYONE...church, family, oneself, etc. Once out on the mission the level of disappointment when it comes to failure grows tremendously. Church/Mission leaders will use that fear of being sent home against the missionary, family may say something like "If you come home early it better be in a box", and the missionary himself would have to deal with a sense of failure. The missionary may also have to deal with the "unknown"...will he even have a home to come home to...if so what type of life would that be...what about friends, girlfriends, church members, etc.

Yes it takes an incredible amount of courage to walk off of a mission. Far more than if deciding not to go in the first place. That is why once out, so many choose to stay regardless of how miserable they might be.

That was MY experience. Yours?

Seldom have they said there was no extreme pressure to go on a mission or stay to the end of it. One RM I know said he didn't feel much pressure on his mission because it was illegal to go door to door or approach strangers on the street in that country.

He did say the interview process was horrific with some seething screaming SP accusing him of sexual activity. But once out in the field he had a good time and would have stayed longer if he could.

No one else I've met or read about had such fond memories that I recall.

I grew up in the Midwest, and while I’m sure most of the kids I grew up with felt pressured to go on a mission, most of them went because they wanted to. Of course most of them are still active Mormon so I’m not sure that this is a good example of what youre talking about.

My guess is the truth of all this lies somewhere in the middle. Sometimes missionaries experience poor living conditions, lack of contact with the outside world, but the stories of the missionaries who I know the best- my family members - Speak of positive experiences where they were able to enmesh themselves in different cultures and were able to actually spend quite a bit of time doing things besides proselytizing and explore the local culture and so on. They were regularly fed by members, had enough money to get the things they need, had reasonable living arrangements, and almost always had cars. I’ve also heard stories about missionaries in fairly dangerous places. My dad served as a mishie in Miami in the early 80s when there were riots going on. He tells a story about one of his companions parents being fearful enough for his childs safety that he sent him a gun. There were times that they were instructed by their mission president not to leave their apartment because of how dangerous it was outside. If I knew one of my children were serving in an area like that, my instinct would be to get them out of there right away and not want them to go back. Of course, missionaries who serve are adults, so all one can do is plead, knowing that one has the best interests of their children at heart. I’m sure there is some manipulation that goes on with other missionaries and zone leaders and the mission president, trying to compel them that they need to stay and do the Lords work and stuff.


I also suspect the pressure one might feel when they’re living in the heart of Mormondon in Utah might be different from someone living in an area that is not as densely filled with Mormons and where the culture is less saturated with all aspects of Mormonism.

Missionaries routinely come by my house, given that I live with my parents, and my dad is the bishop, and I always treat them kindly. None of them have ever suggested that I go back to church or anything like that. I encounter them on the streets around where I live with some frequency, and I’m always polite to them. They never give me a hard time or suggest I go back to church in those encounters either, maybe that’s because they know I’m the bishop’s son, I don’t know.

My belief is to always try to treat everyone with kindness, including missionaries, although I understand that missionaries do things like ignore no proselytizing signs and ring your doorbell anyway, and a response in kind- matching their rudeness and disrespect- is something That I understand and will not judge someone for. People always have the option to turn the other cheek, but sometimes people need something else to get the message.

People are different. Situations are different. Mormonism is a high-pressure religion and people are expected to serve missions in general and not doing this probably invites scorn and ridicule and disappointment from family and other members of the ward and I can’t imagine How hard that is to deal with. I spent three years when people assumed I would be serving a mission in a treatment center in Utah and The midwest, which invited another kind of response from members of my ward, although in general I was pleasantly surprised, and people were kind and supportive. Lately I’ve been having to deal with my black-and-white thinking and the assumptions I have about Mormons, given the kindness so many showed me then and the kindness I see now from Mormons. Even though I have my beliefs about the church, that it is a cult that has interest in controlling you and getting your money, My family members are some of the best people I know, and many of the best people I have met in my life are Mormons , and they are as devout a group of Mormons as you would see anywhere, and I can’t pretend that they aren’t like this because of the values- Mormon/Christian values-that were instilled in them by their equally devout parents, in the case of my aunts, uncles, parents, cousins, etc. They are kind, helpful, and generous people, and have helped me many times when I have been down and out, without scorn or ridicule.


Hell, I can’t pretend that the formative years they spent on their missions didn’t help them into making them these kind of people- Good people.

Do I wish the missionary program didn’t exist? Yes. I believe it hurts as many people as it helps, maybe it hurts more. All I’m saying is that I have met many dozens of missionaries to attribute much of the good in their life to the years they spent on a mission, and that it taught them how to work hard, study hard, and persevere and carry on.

And I don’t forget the experiences I have read here from people about their missions and how awful they were. However, there are 2 sides to a coin, and I’ve heard exmos here speak of their mission experiences positively.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2018 12:39PM by midwestanon.

What I find disgusting is how mission presidents get so many benefits to help them with their health and safety in a dangerous third world country that missionaries don't, by it being actively denied to them by the church.
Such as:
A nice house and living with their own family, while missionaries live with a stranger (before they became companions) and can't even make regular phone calls to their families
Access to current news
Contact with their relatives
Direct access to their passport (taken away from missionaries)
Great tax-free salaries and medical benefits, while missionaries get NO salaries or benefits
Age and experience, while missionaries now are 18 or 19
A position of authority, while missionaries are expected to believe that the mission president will act in the best interest of their health in the case of a medical or other emergency, which is often not true.

Plus, missionaries often live in poor living conditions while mission presidents have nice houses
and missionaries regularly travel around the area in sometimes bad neighborhoods exposing them to all kinds of dangers that a young person might not assess or deal with correctly, while mission presidents can basically sit in their office all day.
This is why so many missionaries have been killed or seriously injured mentally or physically, while you never hear of anything bad happening to a mission president.
This is how they treat their young, vulnerable TEENAGERS who in the last few years have just recently gotten the right to vote or learned to drive, and have probably NEVER lived on their own before!

Although I don't agree with your take on Mission Presidents (I believe they deserve EVERY perk they get from the church), I do agree with you when it comes to missionary housing. My son lived in some horrendous housing on his mission in Mexico. I constantly alerted him to be alert of things in his apartment that could harm him. I have always felt that if a visiting G.A. wouldn't feel comfortable staying in a missionary's apartment, the missionary shouldn't be there either.

the church taking away mishie passports? Separating a person from his or her passport doesn't strike me as a totally kosher means of control.

You forgot to mention how the missionaries are routinely insulted
and belittled by the MP and APs.

This subject, as I've mentioned, is very personal to me. The story goes like this and I think, demonstrates well what happens in the Mormoncult's "wonderfully inspired, blessed young missionary program." Or not.

So, our first daughter, due to some of our own position at the time and the church's indoctrination, at 21, not married, decided that she should serve a mission. We told her our reasons for not supporting her in this desire because we both were strongly questioning the church and attending only a little because of my husband's employment position.

She was a good student and wanted a college degree, and this we encouraged her to pursue and to go on a mission only after getting her degree if she then still wanted to. This way she would have the benefit of having more knowledge and more experience with the additional years under her belt.

She gave this little thought, telling us that she felt inspired to go on a mission now. Next, she was called to Haiti. Haiti, she nor my husband and I knew little about, but I at once camped at the library. What did I discover? Only that this was, OMG, one of the most dangerous, poverty stricken and unsanitary places on the globe.

We, not the church, told our daughter what Haiti was really like. The cult told her to pack 13 pair of nylons to wear in this terribly humid, sweltering climate and how wonderful it would be to learn to speak Creole. We begged and begged her to let us contact the church, telling them in no way would we allow our daughter to go to this country where coups happened as routinely as the sun rising, that she could go instead to say Canada or France where she could use her French and also be close to decent, close health facilities.

But NO, was her answer. Why? Because the Lord had called her to serve the Haitians. She just knew this. So we lost that battle, but thankfully our daughter came home in, sort of, one piece. She lived through a Haitian coup where she and her companion, huddled in an apartment across the street from the palace, recorded gun shots and all the fright and noise of a coup happening right under their ears. She came home after seeing families eating rats, copulation happening in plain sight, children with huge bellies due to their severe malnutrition, and, when she was to come home, many, many people BEGGING this youth to please take them to America. Plus, she came home with a parasite even though she was the type of person to follow rules to the "T" most all the time.....

We did not know about these horrific experiences because she did not tell us in her letters. She knew that we would have been over there PRONTO to bring her home.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/22/2018 05:58PM by presleynfactsrock.

Appreciate your caring. Yes, she went on to study education and got her doctorate. She is very healthy because she is wise, eats mainly veggies and fruit, with no red meat because of parasitic damage to her body.

To this day she seems incapable of seeing anything but good in the Mormon youth missionary program and the whole church in general. Her time and activities are mostly church related. My dream is that someday this will change as she has many talents that could be used toward a different cause.

I am glad she's doing so well, but I'm sorry she must be so careful of health issues for the rest of her life. Let's hope she someday will see through the scam.

They even expect re-members to food, clothe, entertain, assist, and show fer them around...

Dependents

I don't really care what mormons want me to do. What they want doesn't affect my decisions one bit.

Having been a missionary, and having been "mistreated" by the church and its members, and being an ignorant kid indoctrinated since birth to view going on a mission as the "highest calling," I have empathy for the mishies. That doesn't mean "coddling" them. It also doesn't mean treating them like crap.

I rarely encounter them anymore. When I do, I generally treat them kindly. If they're engaging in annoying, aggressive tactics, I call them out on those tactics. I try to plant some seeds of reason in them. And, often, I give 'em a decent meal or a cold drink -- because on my mission, when kind people did that for me, I appreciated it, and it helped me see that non-mormons weren't all either evil tools of satan or potential converts, with nothing in between.

I think you are mixing apples and oranges.

"Do any of these mormons see this as mistreatment? Seldom."

Mormons see missions as a right of righteous passage and they are always going on about how rough it is. They see it as sanctioned mistreatment. Like voting for someone in church isn't voting. The Mormons I know know that missionaries are mistreated by their church. They don't call it mistreatment. They call it sacrifice. They blame the victim of their church. It is built into their system. The kid is the one who wanted to go not the organization pushing it and the culture making door-to-door sales for no money but pay to play network marketing door-to-door selling a push.

As a parent of a missionary I don't want her coddled. I want her respected and if she steps outside the boundaries any door-to-door sales person shouldn't (like ignoring posted signs to no selling) she should suffer the consequences.

The kids aren't to blame. You call it coddling. I don't.

Edit: I actually find it sad that you have such a problem with this that you call it coddling.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2018 10:52AM by Elder Berry.

I’ll coddle em.

I’ll let em see that exmos are lovely and gracious. Before they had cell phones, I asked them if there was anyone they needed to call. They were welcome to stay at my house until someone could come and get them.

I always tried to be nice to them cause I remember what it felt like. I will say tho, my ex used to have mishies living right next door to her and I would feel bad for them whenever we got busy cause she was loud and I know that hey could hear our bedroom antics in every sordid detail. That must’ve made their lives harder than they already were.

They have no privacy and are not allowed a normal social life or a chance to explore intellectual pursuits.

This is a life I couldn't live.

Then, the same mormons who require these abuses brag about being "nice" to missionaries. Why? because they invite them in for cold drinks in hot weather and hot drinks in cold weather. They let them rest inside their homes for an hour or two occasionally and they drop everything to give them rides or a couple of dollars for fast food.

Hmm. I think I'd rather not have everyone offering me drinks and rides and just live a good life away from squalor and a bleak existence as required by mormon parents, ward members, and church busy bodies and leaders.

"Mormons FORCE mishies..."

Wow...things must have really changed. Way back when, it used to be a choice whether to serve a mission or not.

< They have no privacy and are not allowed a normal social life or a chance to explore intellectual pursuits.

And? So? That has always been "par for the course". The mishies don't KNOW this before VOLUNTEERING to go? I had pretty good idea what I was up against prior to. If they didn't know it before, they'll find out about it soon enough in the MTC.

MORmON missions are so much fun, that it is worth it to endure any hardship that comes along with them !!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vFSoyFUq2w0

They all look alike .....because they abided by the direction given to them by their MORmON leaders ....... so now its time to mock them for their compliance !!!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GuN_ZDJKkPo

(Cabbage head) Gordon Hinckley would be completely entitled to comment on how other people look !!!!