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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 04:25PM

This is Shannon/JackMormon'sWife. I'm in a life or death situation with my ex, JackMo.

It has come to light this week that my ex-husband sexually abused at least 2 out of 3 of my adult daughters when they were pre-teen/early teens. From everything I've ever read on RfM, I can say with a certainty that his sexual issues are a direct result of growing up Mormon (I was a convert and none of this makes sense to me). We are all resigned from the church. He is related to Boyd K. Packer for those who remember.

I've had very little contact with him the past three years since our divorce. Much of that time he has spent in Brazil, South America with his "fiance," a girl he met over the internet (and I do mean girl).

This is a long, scary, convoluted story and I am only willing to post further if I feel safe here. I'll just watch the posts unfold and if I feel safe enough, I'll spill. I will say this, though.....I am outing him to everyone I know, including the Brazilian fiance (that disclosure happened this afternoon). I am seriously concerned for my well-being and I am meeting with my divorce attorney Wednesday if for no other reason than to document my fears.

I've taken a "scorched Earth" policy, and I am NOT allowing him to minimize or lie about anything that happened to my girls. He is shocked, as accusations are flying in every direction toward him. Luckily he is out of town for a week for job training so he can't hurt me TODAY. But he did send me a very ominous message when I warned his "fiance" who has a young daughter. He said, "Enough is enough."

I am no longer afraid of him, and I will literally die for my girls if it comes to that. Believe me when I say he has the constitution to kill someone who threatens his image.

Done. Talk to me.......

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Posted by: Devoted Exmo ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 04:29PM

What are you asking for exactly? How can we help?

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 04:50PM

I don't know what I'm looking for, honestly. But I know my story mirrors story after story after story that I've read on RfM. It's bizarre.

I guess I just want people who remember me to tell me how strong I really am, and how I'll get through this.

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Posted by: Anonymous and scared for you ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 03:35PM

A friend told me to come onto RFM and read Shannon's story. My story mirrors Shannon's story--my wife-batterer ex-husband was also a relative of Boyd K. Packer!

That, and you description of your ex-husband, Shannon: "Believe me when I say he has the constitution to kill someone who threatens his image." gave me cold chills. My abusive TBM ex-husband injured me badly (I still bear the scars and injuries) and he almost killed me. He is a very large, intimidating man, also. He lives in the South, where no one knows his past. There was no way I could have warned you about this family, as I don't know you, and I don't live in your area. I had to run away to escape from my violent ex-husband, and get restraining orders, and live sort of like a fugitive. We were married only a few months, and I made sure I had no children. He found another victim/wife very quickly, and they had children, and I have never seen or spoken to him since the divorce. BKP blocked my attempts to get a temple divorce, and I formally resigned from the Mormon church. My ex is still using the Mormon church and his relationship with BKP to con people.

Shannon--I'm so sad for you and your family, to have to deal with this sociopath. I understand what you are dealing with. I'm glad you have an attorney, and that you, yourself are well-versed in the mental health field. I hope you and your daughters are in therapy. I had to have therapy after my ordeal, too, even though it was more short-lived, and there were no children involved.

This is so upsetting to me, to read your story. I can't come onto RFM anymore, because knowing about the abuse others are suffering, causes PTSD flashbacks. Shannon, you will recover from your PTSD, because I can tell you are a strong person. Your daughters will thrive in your love and understanding, also. I'm living a very happy life, now, and the flashbacks are fewer and milder.

As you know, Cluster B personality types can suck you in, and dominate every waking thought. You're always trying to help the pathological one, you're trying to figure out their motives, you're asking yourself "why", you're taking all the blame--until you end up having to PROTECT YOURSELF from that person. My advice is to not focus on your ex anymore, except to protect yourself and your children from further damage by this monster. Others have advised you to do this, also. It is not worth risking your life to prove a point, or on a principle. It's too bad you can't relocate and change your name, like I did.

I want to say that DEFINITELY the Mormon cult has created, nurtured, rewarded, and perpetuated liars, sociopaths, psychopaths, abusers like your ex, and my ex, and Boyd K. Packer. My ex's TBM cult-high-authority-leader father used to beat him, when he was a little boy. The "cycle of abuse" is passed down through the generations. Maybe its genetic in Mormon strains. Maybe its mostly behavioral. But there is a connection. To this day, I don't trust Mormons.

My M.O. matches Shannon's, as victims. I came from a wealthy family, and my ex wanted someone to put him through school. I was also kind, and friendly, and was taught to trust all Mormon returned missionaries, and leaders such as BKP. You are not to blame, Shannon! My psychiatrist had to work with me to make me understand that psychopaths blame everyone and anyone but themselves.

I'm glad you have family support! I didn't have that, until later. I had to have "no contact" with those who blamed me and/or didn't believe my story.

My motto was and is: "Keep on moving onward and upward."

((((a thousand hugs)))) to Shannon and other victims of spousal abuse. All I can offer you is sympathy and hope.

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 25, 2018 07:52AM

Thank you for your validation. In a moment of absolute rage, I contacted his foreign fiance and advised her to ask her young daughter if JackMo had done anything innappropriate.

All hell broke loose and he called my lawyer. My ex is out of town right now but due return Friday. I kind of feel like I'm just calmly sitting here waiting for an attack I'm sure will come.

Looking into self-defense....

It's weird, but when I worked with child sexual abuse victims in my career, my training and my instincts were always to TELL TELL TELL, and let the authorities handle the rest. I couldn't conceive of the level of fear a victim faces in disclosing this type of abuse. I also never really understood what lengths a perpetrator would go to discredit and harm a victim who came forth even years later.

Even though I feel real danger. I am deadly calm. Somebody please explain that part to me???

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 04:29PM

I get why you went for the "scorched earth" policy.

Make sure you're safe. Don't be alone.
Let us know how it turns out, ok?

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 04:36PM

I am not sure that our experience here is wide enough for your needs.

Google: What do you do if you discover your spouse has sexually abused your daughters?

Many returns will come up, and some of them will likely contain exactly the information and advice you need most right now.

Our best wishes are with you, shannon. :(

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 04:46PM

Crying....thank you Tevai. I don't even know where to start. Thank you.

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Posted by: Cheryl ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 04:37PM

Do you need our love and emotional support during this scary time? If so, all of that is a given.

What else can we do for you?

Please be brave as I know you are and please stay safe.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 04:42PM

You can't change the past. It's obvious that you want to change his future. He'll resist.

What do your daughters want?

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 04:48PM

You sound very heated. Slow down, and let your mind catch up with your anger. I'm glad you're talking to your lawyer. You'll need other professionals, especially mental health counselors (your daughters, especially).

Use this board for venting, of course. But please be careful with the scorched earth, lest a backdraft scorch you, too.

Think...breathe...think...breathe...talk...think...get council...

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Posted by: Amyjo ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:10PM

Check to see what the statute of limitations are for child molestation in the state where it occurred. It has likely run its course. If you didn't press charges before, you may not be able to now.

The other thing is by labeling your ex as a pedophile/child molester could be construed as slander, defamation, and libel. He could press charges against you, unless you can prove the allegations are genuine and you are acting in good faith, without malice.

Why didn't your daughters come forward before now? As a mom, it would seem hard not to know or see some tell tale signs while they were under your roof ...

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:24PM

Amyjo Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Why didn't your daughters come forward before now?
> As a mom, it would seem hard not to know or see
> some tell tale signs while they were under your
> roof ...


I thought the start of your post was good but this wasn't.

I'm an adult victim of childhood sexual abuse. I rebelled against my parents as an older teen punishing them for what they were and how they let me suffer at the hands of another adult. They were obviously oblivious to the fact that I was abused when I told them only recently. I can only imagine how much harder it would be for kids who loved their parents and one was the perp.

To even ask her this is terrible. Shame on you.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2018 05:25PM by Elder Berry.

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:43PM

Elder Berry, I have followed (and loved) your posts for years. I did not know you were the victim of child sexual abuse. I'm so sorry for you pain.

Do you understand what I am saying? My ex was/is a real life sexual predator/SOCIOPATH?!

Dear God.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:51PM

Thanks, I followed yours as well. I hoped that your life was going well but this is what it is. I came to my parents a few months ago with my abuse.

It is so hard to tell in people who was abused and who wasn't. People reduce to simplify the problem. They think there are always classic signs. We aren't so easily reducible. Especially if the abuser is a beloved parent.

I think back to when you were with your ex. He was manipulating you and it was sad. For sociopaths it is the only way they can engage the world.

Good luck. I hope he is more bark than bite.

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Posted by: dogblogger ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 06:04PM

A lot of states now allow civil cases against abusers even after the statute of limitations. Look into that as well. Your daughters may be able to clean him out.

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Posted by: Finally Free! ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 06:04PM

"As a mom, it would seem hard not to know or see some tell tale signs while they were under your roof ..."

This is victim shaming. In this day and age, I think there are plenty of examples of how and why this gets hidden, even from spouses, parents, etc. There's the whole "metoo" movement happening right now. Women from all walks of life are revealing, often after many after years of hiding, the abuse they suffered under. It's not up to you to decide what she should have known or why her daughters are coming forward now.

She's got enough to deal with without people telling her that she should have known. She and her daughters are the victims here, they are doing her best to pick up the pieces now that her daughters have let her know.



shannon, It sounds like you're making the right moves, be there for you and your daughters. I can't imagine what you're going through. I'm sure you'll get lots of practical advice. I hope you get the help and support you need. Stay safe!

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:12PM

Hi, Shannon. Always good to see you here, although I wish you had happier news. I think your lawyer will have good advice for you. Family lawyers have seen it all. I understand why you are feeling so angry and upset.

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Posted by: captainklutz ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:28PM

Shannon,

I think I'd recommend reaching out to a battered women's group. While you're not the abused, they do know how to help women disappear and that may be what you need to do until some sort of resolution is reached.

Make sure you contact the police as well. While the statutes may be up, if something happens to you they should know where to look. Chances are your soon to be ex would be the primary suspect in any case but help them to know for sure.

In any case, I'm sure either resource can help you with advice. Counseling for you and your daughters may also be in order.

Best of luck to you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2018 07:14PM by captainklutz.

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:45PM

Thank You!!!!! This is exactly, exactly the kind of practical advice I need.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:43PM

Not a lot of wisdom on that end, but I can't say I'm surprised; I am your friend... Hang in there...

And here's the old throwaway e-mail, sl_cabbie@yahoo.com if you need it and want to connect... Your call...

Some of that might be "sympathy committee" stuff; I've got a helluva lot on my plate, too, but we got my daughter into a program, graduated from high school, and she's working right now...

I'm at my folks right now; my mother sends her best.

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:51PM

Thank you, thank you, thank you R!!!! I was hoping you'd show up. Please let the haters on this thread know I am speaking truth. You and I have a 13-year history and you KNOW I'm not making any of this up. Thank you. I'm crying so hard right now for your validation.

Yes, I'm a hot mess. I apologize for any disbelief I ever had. You are a lifesaver.

Shannon

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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 01:56AM

I've been hoping things were going well for you.

Like everyone else here, I'm wishing you the best possible outcome. (((HUGS)))

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Posted by: Just Saying ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 05:53PM

My suggestion (not legal advice):

SHUT-UP, and just call the police. Let them handle it. Your "scorched-earth" policy is ill-advised. STOP IT NOW. INCLUDIING ON THIS BOARD.

Your daughters are now adult, and presumably not at risk. If they want to pursue a civil action against your Ex they can do that. I assume that your ex's fiancé is also an adult, however, young. If she is underage, your you think she might be, simply inform the police of that belief.

You are opening yourself up to potential liability for defamation. Although truth is a defense, the burden of proof is on you, and facts and legal evidence are not the same thing. Many an ex-spouse has learned that the hard way.

Hopefully, your attorney will agree with the above suggestion and perhaps help you to secure a restraining order.

As an aside, it is unproductive to blame Mormonism for such deviant behavior. It happens across all segments of society.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 06:01PM

Shannon I remember you.

I agree that you need to be very, very careful about what you say and do.
This is your daughters call now.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 06:04PM

But your "bedside manner" leaves a lot to be desired, and you seriously need to learn what the word "suggestion" means...

And nobody here with any length of time on the board is going to give much credence to somebody posting anonymously...

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 07:02PM

Thank you for your (not) legal advice. Really. From an alternate point of view....I am a retired Child Mental Health Therapist. My world view is: "Tell." Don't cover for the abuser. Let the victim tell and let the legal system take care of the rest.

My girls are traumatized...in more ways than I have space to even write. They want this to go away. But all of their stories are synced. Separate interviews. Decades apart. They love me and trust me to get them through this.

I know you understand the law. (Guessing you are an attorney). But it is people like you who fueled the dysfunction of the "Me Too" movement. My girls need me. I am not ashamed and I will not hide.

If my children's own mother won't stand up for them, who will????

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Posted by: nevermojohn ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 07:06PM

As a basic matter of law, if your ex husband sued you, it would be up to your ex husband to prove that he had been libeled, slandered, etc. Now, the truth is a defense against that claim, but it would still be up to your husband to prove whatever he would be claiming. The burden of proof is always with the person who is suing.

Not legal advice, but stating the obvious. Burden of proof is on the plaintiff

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 07:43PM

Thank you for your legal advice. I appreciate it, sincerely, but my X doesn't have a pot to piss in. He has literally blown ALL of his money on his Brazilian Chica the past 3 years. I come from a wealthy family. He couldn't fight us in court if his life depended on it. Really. (Still laughing and thanks for the chuckle).

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Posted by: Just Saying ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 07:56PM

How this typically works is that such a lawsuit alleges defamation, i.e. a false statement defaming the person. There is a burden on the plaintiff to show that such statements were in fact made, which is usually not problematic. The burden then shifts to the defendant to argue an affirmative defense; i.e. that the statements were true, or otherwise protected speech.

As an aside, these cases are often presented by plaintiff's attorney on a contingency fee basis. As such, the plaintiff's financial resources are not a reliable indicator of whether a lawsuit will be brought. The defendant, on the other hand, has the added burden of paying for his or her own attorney's fees to defend the case, sometimes creating substantial leverage for plaintiff in a settlement context.

Thus, if the plaintiff can show that defamatory statements were made (e.g. by accessing this post), AND that there is no evidence for such statements; AND that you have the money to pay a substantial judgment . . . well, attorney's willing to pursue such a case are easy to find.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 10:00PM

Have a problem with boundaries and being told they're not wanted?

Just sayin'....

BTW, if anyone believes an attorney would bother with this one pro bono, I've still got that beachfront property up north of here on the Great Salt Lake...

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 10:04PM


Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2018 06:34AM by Beth.

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 10:15PM


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/24/2018 06:35AM by Beth.

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Posted by: Iagreew/JustSaying ( )
Date: July 26, 2018 12:28PM

I have read through this thread, and your response to "Just Saying" sort of stood out to me for some reason. I mean, we're all anonymous. So the "boundaries" you speak of are the one's where you have disagreed w/ "just saying'? I agree w/ Just Saying. Let me give you a scenario, Let's say you were an innocent father, and over a period of year your x-wife demonized you, alienated you, and estranged your children (adult or not), to the point where they wake up in the morning hating you for no real reason, but just waiting for mom to point it out what a POS you are (for the day). It does happen where there are false allegations sometimes, and men, like the one in question, do have recourse. Just Saying only speaks the truth, although unpopular with you, the OP needs to be very careful about what she says. There must be evidence or she leaves herself open to legal action. Just saying is spot on.

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Posted by: Chicken N. Backpacks ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 07:40PM

The only thing I could suggest is: get your ducks in a row.

But it looks like you're doing that, calmly, matter-of-fact-ly.

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Posted by: Heidi GWOTR ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 09:47PM

Oh Shannon, I am so sorry to hear this. I am currently experiencing a lot of abuse memories coming to the forefront, and I can tell you what I need right now that your daughters may also be needing. Physical hugs. The kind that show protection. Remind them that they are safe now.

No advice other than that right now.

May everything be given to you that you and your daughters need, and may your ex' karma come quickly to him.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 10:11PM

I have a specific recommendation for Chick'n'Backpacks suggestion to "get your ducks in a row."

On legal pads, or a digital format, start a time line of this sordid history. Write "1970" for sheet one, "1971" for sheet two, and so on. Write what you know, and how you know it.

E.g. "1973, July, after Independence Day. Ex out with Daughter 2 on long hike. Daughter 2 sick for two days."

That sort of thing. DO try to be thorough, and distinguish between hunches, reasonable suspicion, and known events. (Even hunches may prove true later on).

At some point, you may want to involve your daughters in this project--that's for you women to determine. The point of this is 1) to get a grip on the facts, which will help you get a grip on yourself (yourselves). 2) These data will prove invaluable should any criminal or other legal action commence. But the main thing is #1--it will be painful and shocking, and bring up old pains, but an objective understanding of the reality will (eventually) be healing.

Love from Boston...!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/23/2018 11:04PM by caffiend.

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Posted by: saucie ( )
Date: July 23, 2018 11:15PM

Oh Shannon I'm so very very sorry for the circumstances you are in now.... God damnit life can be so ugly and hurtful and unfair

Dont ever
. on't ever let anyone try and guilt you because you didn't know sooner or you didn't do something right. The person who told
you that is obviously living without the normal empathy that
any human being has for their fellow man YOu are a strong strong person and I have every faith in you that you will be through this whole thing... just don't let the creepy people guilt
you into feeling as bad as they do about themselves.

I'm sendng giant hugs and love to you... please keep us
posted on how things are going. We are with you , we are on your
side.

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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 12:07AM

Hi Shannon...I am sooo sorry you are going through this! You have had enough drama for a lifetime!

Sending big hugs.

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 25, 2018 08:05AM

Thank you gemini. I thought I was in your "club" for a long time. Surprise. It's something else entirely.

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Posted by: anon for this one ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 12:56AM

When they were in their early teens. It was a mess. In the end he got a two year sentence (I believe he served some of it on weekends). His family went through hell and understandably SIL divorced him. He still lives in the small town where the rest of the family lives. As with all TBMs he makes his life look all hearts and butterflies on FB. Everyone treats him as though he's a pillar of the community.

His daughters and young son went through the breakup of their family and still today suffer the consequences of their father's actions. Yet, oddly,they praise him on social media, and it is as if nothing ever happened I believe my SIL suffered most of all. Her TBM in-laws passed rumors around the small town that she refused to have sex with her husband and that is why he did what he did (eye-rolling). She watched her marriage disappear and had her life destroyed. She never asked for this to happen, it was not her fault. Her physical and mental health suffered immeasurably. She has never remarried nor had another relationship since. Her ex remarried a much younger woman with children a few years after the incident. SIL had to watch as her children (strangely) formed close ties with this woman and her family applaud their father on social media.

I'm not sure how my story can help you but only to say that in the end, BIL came out on top and even the daughters he victimized don't hold it against him. I don't know how to advise you but perhaps you should not waste too much energy on trying to make him pay for what he did. It may be that you and your daughters will suffer more from the stress than your ex. I would not let it ruin my life. Take care of your daughters and get them all the help they need to heal.

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Posted by: anonyXmo ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 02:08AM

The only thing I can think of at the moment is to ask if your adult daughters are fully on board with you and on your side and willing to stand with you in whatever legal measures you need to take. Having that mutual support among the three of you could be a huge asset for your fight (psychologically and legally.)

Are the daughters aware of the implications of the battle you're waging and that they are likely to be pulled into it whether they are ready or not? You have to get them solidly with you and aware of the risks they are taking if they end up having to testify or give a disposition or something like that.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 03:30AM

I was genuinely just wondering about you on Sunday, Shannon - I think because our Beth has recently returned to the board for a drive-by.

I remember your story very clearly. For those who don't, this is not new: the guy in question is a real screw-up - and Shannon is a very good woman who has tried to keep things together in the face of extreme adversity.

I'm not much use for anything else, Shannon, but you have my love and support from France.

Tom in Paris

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 25, 2018 08:10AM

Thank you Tom. You have always been a great contributor to this board, one of my favorite posters even though you've never been Mormon!

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Posted by: Mother Who Knows ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 05:05AM

Dear Shannon--I'm so sorry for your daughters! I'm so sorry for you!

I, too, was a victim of physical abuse, and rape.

You are wise to take action, because this will help you and your daughters to heal. Even if you don't succeed, the trying will help you a great deal. Please don't endanger yourselves! Please get professional help! I'm glad your family has money to help you and your daughters.

I understand perfectly how you would never suspect your husband! I agree that anyone who blames you doesn't know what she is talking about! My abusive older brother was a sociopath, and sociopaths are master manipulators, and expert liars. My parents and our ward had great sympathy for my brother, as the girls didn't like him and wouldn't date him, because he was slightly "husky." He pretended to be shy, he was an aggressive pervert. I won't go into detail, but when he died, there were two lawsuits against him, for sexual harassment. He told me about his fantasies about our nieces, how he had spied on them, and stolen their underwear. I tried to warn them and their parents, but the parents just laughed at me. You can't save the world, dear Shannon. BUT--I kept my brother away from my daughters!!!!

Save your daughters, first. I admire your maternal instinct! Their safety is your main priority. Don't try to "punish" the sociopath, if it puts your safety at risk. "Teaching him a lesson," does not work with sociopaths. They are un-teachable and incurable. You know this, if you are in the mental health field.

You need to let your daughters know they are important! My ex husband beat me almost every day, until I crawled away, in order to not die at his hands. My parents, his family, the church, and the law did not punish him. He had assaulted others before me, and he went on to assault others, after me. My parents never mentioned my divorce, and most of the Mormons blamed me. All of this made me feel that I did not matter! No one cared that someone almost killed me. Please, let your daughters know you love them, and that none of it is their fault!

I remember your story. I remember about your adopted daughters, and all of it. I don't know how safe you are. I'm afraid to tell the name of my wife-beater ex-husband on here. He and his family think I'm still sealed to him as his possession in the Celestial Kingdom. This is one of the reasons I resigned. I know the Mormon temple rituals are bogus, but he and his family still believe it.

I agree with you that the male psychopaths that you and I have known have been enabled, condoned, and excused by the cult.

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Posted by: shannon ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 08:14AM

Waking up to a nightmare. I am concerned for my safety. I'm not going to write for a while but I am reading the stellar advice here. (I'd be interested to hear what Beth wants to say). I love RfM. What a remarkable corner of the universe we have here. Love to you all.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 11:38AM

Give your mind time to catch up with your emotions, and get legal advice. Also, assess where your daughters are, mentally and emotionally (as a few other posters have advised).

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 01:00PM

Please keep us updated. I know it is a risk to post too much information so just let us know how you and your daughters are holding up?

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Posted by: Shummy ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 10:34AM

(((((((((((( Shannon )))))))))))))

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Posted by: cl2notloggedin ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 01:28PM

Just saw this. I'm SO SORRY, Shannon. You've had enough to deal with.

Your daughters (and you) should probably see a therapist, if you aren't already.

Let me just say, "I didn't know either." My child told me that he never met a mother who was as careful as I was and I still had a child who was molested. I was also molested, but I never told my parents. I've only talked to my child about it once I knew they had been molested. My brother kept his a secret until he was 37 and told his wife. He told me he could tell by my child's self-destructive behaviors that he had been molested, too.

My mother was over protective, too, and at least 3 of her children were molested of 6.

I think you've received a lot of great advice here.

And I just ran out of the ability to make sense of my thoughts to write them down. Too overwhelming.

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 25, 2018 08:15AM

Hi Cl2. I knew you'd show up. As I told gemini upthread, you know I always thought I was in YOUR "club." Apparently not. Lack of intimacy in my marriage was due to a whole 'nother animal I guess.

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Posted by: pogie ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 02:39PM

I know this is hard right now take a step back and think what you want to do I wouldn't be posting anything on line right now it may be used against you keep that between you your lawyer and the police I know that you said you are taking "scorched Earth" approach but that never works it may help with your anger right now you need to talk to someone

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Posted by: Tahoe Girl ( )
Date: July 24, 2018 09:17PM

You've toughed out a lot of stuff up to this point, and I've no doubt you'll tough this out as well. You've been through a lot of stuff over the years.

What's most important is that you are there for your daughters. You have always been there for them. There was sex abuse in my family when I was little, and though my mother knew what was happening, she did nothing to save my older sister from it. Your daughters are fortunate to have YOU.

This can't be easy on anyone in your family. Others have given you so many good suggestions. I add my emotional support to you, and hope all of you remain safe. Hugs to you and your daughters.

Oh, and it would be great if the creep got what he deserves!!!

TG

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Posted by: shannon (nlI) ( )
Date: July 25, 2018 08:19AM

Thank you TG. Right about now I'm contemplating life on the road. ;o) You are so lucky to be able to pack up and just LEAVE someplace when things get bad. Happy travels...I'm with you there in spirit.

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Posted by: Need to be anon this time also ( )
Date: July 26, 2018 11:37AM

Shannon, I remember you well and I'm so glad you came here for help or validation or whatever the right word is. Sorry this is a little long, but I want to give you this background to validate your instincts.

My childhood sexual abuse was so benign, for lack of a better word, because none of it is benign, but it only happened once and it was "only" fondling. I was 13 and had no clue that it was wrong and why I liked it so much. Basically, my father taught me how to masturbate because after he left, I wanted to touch myself the way he had because it felt so good and it took about 3 seconds to hit the big O. And after that, I knew this amazing trick to make myself feel good and help me go to sleep. I thought it was a little weird, but since my father was so cold and distant that his laying by me when I was scared in the night was so comforting.

Then a few years later you can imagine--I learned what it was and the guilt and shame I felt was a big factor in so many of my life decisions, because I could go for awhile without sinning and then I'd sin again. It consumed me--not shame for that first incident, shame for the pattern that had developed. I was well into adulthood before I was able to admit to myself that my father had abused me. But of course, by that time I never said anything to anyone. I would never in a million years have been believed and it just wasn't ever any big deal. But of course, after that I knew that ANY "good LDS" man could abuse children.

Fast forward to when I had daughters and was married to a perverted sociopath. I had reason to believe that he had been diddling one of my young daughters (I'm 100% sure now). I confronted him and it was ugly and I was afraid, so I just made sure that he knew that I knew and I never had any reason after that to think anything had happened and it was just one of the many fights that led to divorce down the road.

Then fast forward again to my now having granddaughters. My oldest graddaughter was the sweetest little girl and then "overnight," as my daughter described it, she turned into a little devil. At the same time, my daughter and husband were living with my ex while they were going to school and they both worked part-time nights in a cargo-handling job, so my ex would watch my granddaughter at night. That in itself always made me a little nervous. But when granddaughter started displaying some really weird behaviors, I also learned that when she woke up in the middle of the night, she'd go an get in bed with grandpa instead of him putting her back to bed. I had a friend who was a counselor who was like, "wow, she displays all the signs of a child who has been abused, who doesn't have the vocabulary to explain it."

So when my daughter and husband finished school and moved to another state and started my granddaughter in kindergarten, they were really frustrated with these weird behaviors. They took her to a counselor and I asked my daughter if they'd asked the counselor about child abuse. She was really mad and said her husband would never do that. I said "I'm not talking about hubby, I'm talking about grandpa." I still never said anything about my suspicions about what he might have done to her when she was young." She let me know in no uncertain terms that her dad would never touch his granddaughter, and I've had an estrangement with her and my other daughter since then.

That granddaughter is now 16 and has grown out of it, is doing well, is talented and very smart and an honor student. But I had other granddaughters and I was so afraid for them. In the mean time I find out that my ex had been picking up hookers for years and that during that time my daughter and SIL were living there, he was also bringing hookers to his house. My daughters know that too, but still don't believe he would ever touch the granddaughters.

So I did as you suggested... tell, tell, tell. I put my suspicions out there so that they would get back to him. He knows what no one else does, that I had suspicions about him for years. I figured that he hated me enough that he was never going to give me the "satisfaction," although it would be no satisfaction of letting me be right. Even if it meant I lost touch with my daughter and granddaughters, it was the only thing I could think of to keep them safe. And as far as I know, they have been.

But here I am, living in the same town as my ex again, very scared of him because of another thing that happened, and not knowing what to do. Luckily we work for the same very large company but in totally different places, so I've talked to our security and he is flagged if he ever tried to enter the building I work in. And I've told all my friends that if anything should ever happen to me, it will have been him. He is textbook sociopath, but he's on good terms with my daughters and they hate my guts because, of course, I am the crazy one. They both have some serious mental issues of their own and all we can do is each get our own therapy.

My father is now gone. I have been in therapy for several years and knew that keeping my mouth shut about his abuse was the right thing to do, although it's hard sometimes because I want to say, "how can you think your father never diddled his daughters, when my supposedly wonderful father did?" It's been really good to get a therapist who knows nothing about mormonism who can really see things from a normal perspective and help me through a lot of issues, and sees how they built on each other--especially my need to want to make my father proud of me, which was a futile exercise, nothing was good enough for him.

But if your daughters are past where they can or want to press charges, you are SO right to tell tell tell. For one thing, you want many people to know and you want him to know that many people know. So that if anything weird ever happened, he would be the first one on the suspect list. Be careful of your surroundings. And know that you have done the right thing and you have every right to be wary and be scared. I live with that always hanging over my head. My ex will outlive me because I don't have good enough luck for him to kick over and release me from my fear.

And now, after all these years, I find out that my daughter has been careful about having her kids around their grandfather and not leaving them alone with him. I wish I'd known that she would take precations, but she never wanted to tell me that because she didn't want me to think that she believed me. Now I understand our estrangement--she is mad that she has had to take those precautions because of the "horrible lies" I told about her father. But obviously she knows there is a chance that it's true and she doesn't want to ever give ME the "satisfaction" of having been right. Really messed up when the thing that drives our family is need to not let the person we hate be right, but whatever works. I would much rather have them hate my guts and know that my granddaughters have been safe than to have kept my mouth shut so my daughters would like me and have to deal with the fact that I could have kept my granddaughters safe and didn't should anything ever happen.

Keeping children safe is number one. Keeping ourselves safe is number 2. I don't know any mother or grandmother who doesn't feel that way. Giving the fiance notice was the right thing. He can tell her you're crazy all he wants, but you planted the seed of caution, even if she won't admit it. What she does with that info is up to her. If my ex ever married someone with young daughters or granddaughters, I'd hope I could at least share that info. Although I don't think I'll have to because I know that he tells people that I accused him of abuse. If I was dating someone who told me that, I'm sure I would be a little cautious, even if in my heart I believed it wasn't true.

Anyway, nice to hear from you. Don't ever let anyone tell you you're crazy because of the things you suspect. Or if they do tell you, know that you are NOT. I told my daughters once that the fact that they don't care whether their daughters might have been abused by their grandfather, says more about what kind of mothers they are, and less about me. However, I didn't know at that time that she DID care enough to take precautions. That is the thing that gets me through the estrangement.

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Posted by: stellam ( )
Date: July 26, 2018 11:56AM

I have no advice to give. But I want to send you my support.

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Posted by: Not saying for this ( )
Date: July 26, 2018 12:00PM

Any man who sexually assaults another including his own children ought to be strung up and castrated.

It's only right.

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Posted by: Thinking ( )
Date: July 26, 2018 04:50PM

Shannon,

I urge you to use caution at this stage of your discovery.

For over a year, I have suspected there was foul play w/re to the wrongful death of someone very close. Today I found documents that support my suspicion.

My first instinct is to run for the comfort of my fellows here on this board. But, I’m going to use caution. Too many lurk here who may not have any of our best interest at heart. Right now, I need to hold my cards close to my vest until I've gone to authorities.

Take care, Shannon.

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Posted by: SusieQ#1 ( )
Date: July 26, 2018 09:29PM

In the past, women have reported it was common for the male leadership (bishops etc.) in the Mormon church to say absolutely outrageous things: you need to be a better housekeeper and he wouldn't beat you, what did you do to get him so angry, why are your daughters tempting their fathers, are you reading your scriptures and praying, are you having family prayer, and on and on. Blaming the victim.

I am hopeful there is some improvement in the Mormon leadership's advice and attitudes these days.

I know this is earth shattering. I know you know how to stay safe, Shannon. Do what you can for your girls. They know you will stand by them. So sorry to hear about all of this.

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Posted by: Hervey Willets ( )
Date: July 26, 2018 09:45PM

http://www.myflfamilies.com/service-programs/domestic-violence

https://www.womenslaw.org/find-help/fl

http://www.wrcfl.org/domestic-violence/

even if your situation doesn't exactly match their mission, they should be able to offer support and legal advice. Stay strong. Positive vibes on their way down from Philly!

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