I wanted love. I needed hope. I needed meaning and purpose.
I needed all of those to feel human.

....so I started attacking missionaries

To be fair, he doesn't really attack them.

The missionaries on the other side only feel strengthened by his chats. "Another anti-mormon influenced by satan" and "wow, I really felt the spirit tell me no point in proceeding."

Koriwhore has been, and continues to be the source of, many faith-promoting stories within the LDS missionary program.

I'm sure it makes him feel better, though. :)

Sillyrabbit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To be fair, he doesn't really attack them.

Exactly.

> The missionaries on the other side only feel
> strengthened by his chats. "Another anti-mormon
> influenced by satan" and "wow, I really felt the
> spirit tell me no point in proceeding."
>
> Koriwhore has been, and continues to be the source
> of, many faith-promoting stories within the LDS
> missionary program.
>
> I'm sure it makes him feel better, though. :)

Like I said above, "I cause Cognitive Dissonance." If that is promoting faith then Ayan Hirsi Ali has it backwards and so do I.

I doubt in most cases you do. Maybe 0.0001.

Could be closer to 9.8672%.

If it is 10 percent then he is doing something significant in my opinion. Taking a tithing from the tithers.

I have to say, you comparing yourself to Ayan Hirsi Ali has got to be the funniest thing I've ever read on RfM.

I can just imagine Ayan, taking time out of her schedule, to tro|| muslim missionaries online because she thinks it would make any kind of difference.

Aaron Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wanted love. I needed hope. I needed meaning and
> purpose.
> I needed all of those to feel human.
>
> ....so I started attacking missionaries

Is asking real, serious questions and expecting real answers from official representatives of the abusive CULT that exploited me and 7 generations of my family attacking them?

"I cause Cognitive Dissonance which will either drive them insane or drive them sane and I hope for the latter, which is all I can do afterall." Ayan Hirsi Ali

I am with Ayan when it comes to helping victims of this abusive CULT to free themselves.

What are you doing, besides personally attacking whistleblowers like me?

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What are you doing, besides personally attacking
> whistleblowers like me?


You aren't a whistleblower. That is where you are deceiving yourself into styling what you do as honorable.

Legal Definition of whistleblower
: an employee who brings wrongdoing by an employer or other employees to the attention of a government or law enforcement agency and who is commonly vested by statute with rights and remedies for retaliation.

: a person who informs on a person or organization engaged in an illicit activity.

This doesn't really seem to fit what you're doing.

Another common definition is:

"Whistleblower (also written as whistle-blower or whistle blower)[1] is a person who exposes any kind of information or activity that is deemed illegal, unethical, or not correct within an organization that is either private or public.[2] The information of alleged wrongdoing can be classified in many ways, including fraud and corruption.

I think Koriwhore is a Whistleblower, along w/ this entire forum, the excellent resources that exist on this forum in the archives, etc. All whistleblowing, all pointing out the fraud that are part and parcel to the fundamental beginnings, tenets, and ongoing fraud of this cult.

We can play the semantics game I guess, but Koriwhore, and everyone else here in their own way exposes TSCC for what it is (in their own way).

Kudos to Koriwhore. I left TSCC after 40 years after reading the archives from this site, Mormonthink, and my ultimate whistleblower - Mr. Shawn McCraney. Thanks to all of you whistleblowers. I salute you.

“abusive CULT that exploited me and 7 generations of my family”

Payback may be a bitch, but feeding their persecution complex doesn’t seem very productive. You have to remember they’re totally “in”. The mind parasite has them.

"feeding their persecution complex" - ah but it is VERY productive. It gets them to THINK. I was totally in and I am not thanks to people taking the time to point out the fraud that is Mormonism.

But by your own account you found the truth by going, on your own and when you were ready, to sources of information you chose. From beginning to end you drove the process.

As you put it, "I left TSCC after 40 years after reading the archives from this site, Mormonthink, and my ultimate whistleblower - Mr. Shawn McCraney."

Thus you were not attacked under false pretenses at a time when your defensive mechanisms were fully primed. Emotionally and intellectually, the people who helped you employed a vastly more sympathetic (and Socratic) method than Koriwhore's.

Your story illustrates why his approach is mistaken.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2018 02:07PM by Lot's Wife.

Well hi Mrs. Lot! I really didn't give much of my story, and your response to my comments is very presumptive. I never said, I was "going (or) when I was ready." In fact, I was never going, seeking, or questioning anything. It was a whistleblower who pointed out that Joseph Smith had married a 14-year old. I was very much a TBM and wanting to defend the church. It got me to think. No, my story is exactly why Koriwhore, and many many others, including yourself, get hard core TBM's, like myself at one time, to THINK. Another great site is MORMONTHINK.com. In a million years, I never thought I would leave the Mormon church, but whistleblowers, although unproductive in your opinion, are VERY PRODUCTIVE in my opinon toward even the staunchest of TBM's. I was an RM, Temple going, High Priest - and now I am not. I appreciate you opinion of my story though, unfortunately you are wrong about my story. I am right. I know my story better than you do.

Forgive my lack of comprehension, but could you add enough details to your story to explain why your seeking out information is the same as someone's being bombarded by a stranger with a false personae and sometimes a hidden camera?

I apologize, meanwhile, for being so presumptuous as to take your account literally. I should have known, I guess, that you did not mean what you wrote.

It's ok. I accept your apology.

Great.

Now do you care to explain why your voluntarily going to sources of information at a time of your choosing is the same as someone being bombarded by a pseudonymous stranger with hyperbolic attacks?

Or do you want to pretend you didn't just assert that?

Bill, do you need me to rewrite that in smaller words?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2018 03:32PM by Lot's Wife.

I have some nice imagery. Think of TSCC as Ricardo Montalban’s character in “The Wrath of Khan”. Mormons are under the influence of an ear worm.

Hah!

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> “abusive CULT that exploited me and 7
> generations of my family”
>
> Payback may be a bitch, but feeding their
> persecution complex doesn’t seem very
> productive. You have to remember they’re totally
> “in”. The mind parasite has them.

Which is the whole point of the Socratic Method, which still works, btw. It worked on me when I was a brainwashed Morguebot. Once my worldview became indefensible, I changed my worldview.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2018 01:48PM by koriwhore.

You do not use the Socratic method. You keep chanting that mantra in Orwellian fashion, as if you can change the established words through repetition. But you can't.

Nope, still smooth.

Yeah he uses the Socratic method. He does for sure.

Perhaps you can explain that method so we can see where the misunderstanding lies?

Perhaps..

Perhaps you are out of your depth and know it.

Perhaps....

Most at the ends of their lives regret what they didn't do not what they did. Perhaps you will feel this way in the end and be glad you did what you did. But . . .


Perhaps a more creative approach? Something that includes a common denominator, like say, humanity. Something that let's you see each other as something other than the "other."

The seed that started me thinking for the first time ever was a man asking tough questions but with real heart behind them. I felt concern from him. Just a man at a door on my mission after I bore my testimony. And his question got me to think, finally. It was only a start, but that is all I needed.

Just a thought.

C'mon Aaron. At least Koriwhore is focused on exposing corruptions by trying to expose the fraud of Mormonism.

I could say the same thing to you Aaron,

Arron wants love (acceptance)..needs meaning and purpose.
I needed all of those to feel human.

....so I started attacking" Koriwhore.

Bill Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> C'mon Aaron. At least Koriwhore is focused on
> exposing corruptions by trying to expose the fraud
> of Mormonism.

A part of me knew it was indefensible when I reached a certain age and had learned more critical thinking skills. I persisted until it became personal.

Maybe 10 percent of the people he lambastes with information will take it to heart. I doubt it.

And he isn't a whistleblower in my mind. For me it takes someone who isn't waving in their claims and were a part of an organization enough to lend credence to those claims.

He is like Shawn McCreedy. Like many Christian's with an ax, a cross and a grinder to sharpen one and polish the other.

Missionary: I believe Joseph Smith to be a prophet of god.

Koriwhore: Joseph Smith raped children, how can a child rapist be a prophet?

Missionary: Thank you for your time.



Missionary: I believe Joseph Smith to be a prophet of god.

Socrates: Joseph Smith must have been quite the man?

Missionary: Absolutely!

Socrates: I sometimes struggle accepting other men as an example. You see I have so many personal faults that I wonder about men that I put on a pedestal.

Missionary: Well Joseph Smith had his faults as well but I have felt God witness the truth of Joseph Smith's teachings to me.

Socrates: You are in a boat that I cannot be in. I would get tripped up before I even starting talking to God about it. Can I ask a question about faults? And please bear with me as I can ramble.

Missionary: I would love to help.

Socrates: I've not always been the best person I could have been. I've at times had too much to drink, said curse words, and even felt hate for other people. I think most of us have flaws. My question is, are all flaws created equal, or are some worse than others?

Missionary: Some are worse than others but with God we can be forgiven for our flaws. I see where you are going with this and one of the things about Joseph Smith is that God can use a flawed person to accomplish his works.

Socrates: I appreciate your foresight, It helps that we are on the same page. I want to believe that I can have faults and still accomplish great things. I guess however that my question could have been stated better. Are than any faults that may disqualify me from being a good example? I might be an example but not one to emulate, instead one to avoid.

Missionary: Sure, you can't go around killing people or hurting people, but Joseph Smith didn't do any of those things.

Socrates: I guess that might be my problem, and I hope you can help me with it. You see, I've heard that he might have caused harm to others. Can you help me reconcile some of the inconsistencies?

Missionary: First you need to understand that there is some unverified information out there. Some of it was made up to make Joseph Smith look bad. I think you should use only Church publications when learning about Joseph Smith's life.

Socrates: Good suggestion, however I'm concerned that I'll only get one side of the story if I do that. I think that your Church might have a vested interest in only telling the best parts of the story.




And so forth. It isn't totally Socratic but it is close enough.

The other piece I would add is the environment (which neither Koriwhore nor Bill understand) that is critical to the Socratic process.

The student and the teacher know each other, probably for a long time. They trust and respect each other. That enables them to open up and engage in deep discussion.

Then the student, not the teacher, describes his position. The teacher then asks questions about the student's position, tweezing out details and possibly contradictions. At no point does the teacher introduce outside arguments or even significant outside information.

Koriwhore has no respect for the process or the missionary. He pays virtually no attention to the student and his presentation but rather asks rhetorical questions whose purpose is to introduce new information. Moreover, he uses inflammatory prose to do so.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The other piece I would add is the environment
> (which neither Koriwhore nor Bill understand) that
> is critical to the Socratic process.
>
> The student and the teacher know each other,
> probably for a long time. They trust and respect
> each other. That enables them to open up and
> engage in deep discussion.
>
> Then the student, not the teacher, describes his
> position. The teacher then asks questions about
> the student's position, tweezing out details and
> possibly contradictions. At no point does the
> teacher introduce outside arguments or even
> significant outside information.
>
> Koriwhore has no respect for the process or the
> missionary. He pays virtually no attention to the
> student and his presentation but rather asks
> rhetorical questions whose purpose is to introduce
> new information. Moreover, he uses inflammatory
> prose to do so.
Bullshit.
I used to be a missionary and wish I had somebody, anybody, once in my 40yr career point out the issues I point out to MORmONs to force them to actually think about their delusional, abusive beliefs, instead of doing what most ExMos do and just coddle grown ass adult official representatives of the Cult that exploited me and 7 generations of my family. Which is a huge disservice to them and the truth.

Just because you like to be spanked with information doesn't mean to not do so is coddling adults.

Koriwhore,

Perhaps you should reread my post. Your reply has nothing to do with it.

I explained what Socratic method is. You say "bullshit" and then say you wish someone had used your approach on you.

That's fine, but it has nothing to do with the Socratic method or with my post.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2018 04:47PM by Lot's Wife.

"force them to actually think about their delusional, abusive beliefs"


Great description of what you are doing. Odd that you don't see the issue with it. But I'll lay it out to you.


You cannot force thought on anyone ever. It is impossible. Unless you're Professor X and you're not telling us.

You aren't talking to people who think they have delusional and abusive beliefs. You're talking to people who think their beliefs are rational and helpful.

Do you remember the proverbial cave? Plato supposed that someone who freed themselves from the cave would find it very hard to coax others out and if they were successful in getting them out they would be blinded by the sun and just run back in to their comfort zone. What you are doing is tantamount to blinding them with the light.

I think if koriwhore wants to try and make mormons "think" so as to get them to challenge their belief's, however he wants to do that, its fine.

I think what bothers people here is the posting about it. We're not the audience for it, and don't seem to be interested in his efforts or technique. All I get from the posts is that he is somehow trying to get people to take up arms and join his personal war on mormonism. Which no one seems to want to do. And that seems to bother him. And then it devolves into threads like this.

I love his handle. I wish I would have thought of it.

Old poster, new handle :)

Wait...."his" handle? Mine or Kori's?

Both.

Roy,

A lot of us would like to help tear down the church. We just think Kori's approach is Pyrrhic.

Fully agree.

Lot's Wife Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Roy,
>
> A lot of us would like to help tear down the
> church. We just think Kori's approach is Pyrrhic.
I speak up for the at least 10 Mormon kids I know and love who were bullied into silence or sh7ame because they were raped by penisholders who groomed them, who were in control of them. I speak up for the 5 generations of my family who were exploited by the same lies. I speak for my kids and their kids.
Tbe price I pay for speaking up are ad hominem attacks by fellow ExMos, is nothing ompared to my freedom of zpeech exmos want to deny me and all the silent victims, ahose love I have earned the hard way.
Everybody in my abusive family knows that I don't have time for f****** abusers. Every victim knows they have a friend and an ally in me who has their back no matter what. For me that's the greatest Victory. Knowing I did the right thing. This your attacks your attempts to silence me is nothing. It's meaningless because you don't know. Half of what I know. About the victims of Joseph Smith.

Well said Koriwhore. You're approach may not work for everyone, but it does work. It did for me, and then I got my family out of it - about 30 of us. Whatever it takes - a multifaceted approach is what I love about this forum.

We are all whistleblowers. Those who express their bad experiences of TSCC and expose the dark underbelly of this cult. This is a great forum. I enjoy all the approaches.

Thank you Eric, et al.

Your support of victims is not the problem. The bullying bloviating baloney is. The self-righteousness is a problem too, but it is not very alliterative.

And, has been explained repeatedly, peppering a diatribe with question marks does not make it a Socratic exchange.

I admire your passion. Your methods, not so much.

"bullying bloviating baloney" is what I experienced for 40 years in the Mormon cult by my local, stake, mission, and general leadership. It's good to see someone give it back to them.