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Posted by: EXON46 ( )
Date: August 13, 2018 07:41PM

OK, the law can't do a thing, but the church can. Why is he not exed.

My code for this is NNWTF or not now what the f

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 13, 2018 07:58PM

The one remaining legal charge is a big one, so the church could still have a problem.

But yes, that is irrelevant to the question why the church has not excommunicated that bastard already. He should be long gone.

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Posted by: anono this week ( )
Date: August 13, 2018 08:27PM

The version I heard is that the woman might be crazy and it never happened anyway. But I just heard on the news a few minutes ago that the church is off the hook. (statutes of limitations)

The lawyers won't get paid, darnit!

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: August 13, 2018 09:27PM

As noted in the above link, one claim against TSCC was not dismissed.

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Posted by: Dead Cat ( )
Date: August 13, 2018 09:35PM

The "crazy woman" actually interviewed the MTC president under the guise of a journalist and has him on tape admitting what he did to her and others.

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Posted by: jcnotloggedin ( )
Date: August 13, 2018 08:30PM

I think there are around 15 or so MTC's worldwide according to this link: https://www.lds.org/callings/missionary/missionary-training-centers?lang=eng

The MTC is crucial for the indoctrination of the missionary. It is of paramount importance to the Q15. I think it is more important than temple presidents.

A previous stake president of my home stake went on to three church callings after retiring: A mission president, a MTC president and a temple president. He has had the Second Anointing somewhere in there. I know this by what he said in a private conversation with me.

I would bet that all MTC Presidents have had the Second Anointing. Compare that to 160+ temples worldwide where it is most probable that those temple presidents have had the Second Anointing.

So it might be awkward to excommunicate the MTC President in this law suit if he has indeed had the Second Anointing.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 14, 2018 12:19AM

They have excommunicated people who've had the second anointing before. Several apostles in JS and BY's time, the gay church patriarch some decades ago, George P. Lee.

Having had their C&E made sure, excommunication wouldn't have any effect in relation to their exaltation. So really this is about public relations. The church would rather not excommunicate senior people, focus attention on them, or offend them such that they go public.

So Bishop and people like him go unpunished. At some point the members won't accept that, I reckon.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: August 14, 2018 12:40AM

George P. Lee was not church patriarch. He was not gay.
He was a seventy. He was excommunicated for apostasy and conduct unbecoming a member of the church. He molested a girl, and apparently also had a disagreement with ETB over how the church was treating Native Americans.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 14, 2018 01:09AM

Perhaps I wasn't clear enough.

I wasn't calling Lee gay; I was listing people who had had the 2A and were subsequently excommunicated. Thus

- some apostles in the early days,
- the gay patriarch (I think he was a Smith),
- George P. Lee

I trust that clarifies things.

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Posted by: [|] ( )
Date: August 14, 2018 01:22AM

>I trust that clarifies things.

It does indeed. Sorry about the misunderstanding.

The gay patriarch was Joseph Fielding Smith (not the one who became prophet - I know you know that, but I added that for the benefit of anyone who doesn't).

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 14, 2018 01:24AM

It's always a pleasure to discuss things with you.

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Posted by: Free Man ( )
Date: August 13, 2018 10:31PM

"The "crazy woman" actually interviewed the MTC president under the guise of a journalist and has him on tape admitting what he did to her and others."

That is what you want to believe, but not true. We learned in church to have faith, and ignore evidence to the contrary, but that is not how justice is supposed to work. The media loves to lynch a guy and withhold evidence also, especially when politically correct.

Have you read the transcripts? I'll post excerpts below.

He was a confused old man, and was a few days past a heart procedure and on medication during the interview. She badgered him to confess, but he did not.

In addition, she is reported to have made at least 2 other false allegations of rape. Also is under investigation for identity fraud. And once made a false report about getting locked in a trunk outside a business after she was fired.

Also in her interview she said he never penetrated her because he couldn't get an erection, but later said he did. Story keeps changing.

From the interview in December: 

https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/f/fd/2017-Joseph_L_Bishop-Transcript.pdf

[quote]Do you remember the movies in the basement? The DVD, the VHS player and the TV? No. Do you remember tearing my blouse, pulling up my skirt, ripping the back of my skirt and trying to rape me? But you didn't, because you didn't have a full erection. You don't remember that?

No. Let me tell you what I do remember.

Okay. Do you know who I am?

No. I don't. Are you, yeah I do. ...................... [/quote]

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/local/arizona-investigations/2018/03/24/amid-quiet-life-chandler-explosive-sexual-assault-allegations-hit-mormon-leader/449975002/?from=new-cookie


https://www.ranker.com/list/mckenna-denson-mormon-church-crime-facts/jodi-smith

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 14, 2018 12:22AM

We did this before, Free Man. You posted this nonsense against McKenna Denson and I went through the transcript and posted corrections. You hadn't even read the transcript, just relied on secondary sources that were inaccurate.

That's not a reasonable approach.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2018 01:30AM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 14, 2018 01:06AM

Let's go through your distortions about McKenna Denson.

That is her name, by the way.



----------------

> Have you read the transcripts?

Yes, I have read the transcripts and listened to the full tape. You, however, have not, as is evident from your misrepresentations about what Denson and Bishop said.



----------------

> He was a confused old man, and was a few days past
> a heart procedure and on medication during the
> interview.

He was lucid and coherent. Listen to the tape.



------------

> She badgered him to confess, but he
> did not.

In fact, he admitted to multiple sex crimes and said he was the Harvey Weinstein of Mormonism. Another woman has subsequently revealed that she was one of the other missionaries Bishop confessed to having assaulted. And a janitor has stated publicly that he had seen the rape room many times, complete with bed, VCR, etc. So there is considerable collaborating evidence behind Denson's claims.

If Bishop had a problem, it was not a lack of lucidity. It was that he had sexually assaulted so many women that he had forgotten who was who. That is his problem, not Denson's.



-------------

> In addition, she is reported to have made at least
> 2 other false allegations of rape. Also is
> under investigation for identity fraud. And
> once made a false report about getting locked in a
> trunk outside a business after she was fired.

This is a textbook ad hominem attack. You say that because she has made major mistakes, her contentions are not credible. That is a lazy way to avoid looking at the evidence: it indicates that you don't care whether what she says is true.

Since almost all victims of childhood sexual abuse make bad life decisions, your standard would mean that there is no recourse for those against whom the greatest crimes are committed. That is an uniformed and unreasonable position to assume.



---------------
> Also in her interview she said he never penetrated
> her because he couldn't get an erection, but later
> said he did. Story keeps changing.

Read what the police said. Her story was consistent. What changed was that the police explained that according to the legal definition, what had happened to her (partial penetration) was rape. Her account of what happened in the MTC did not evolve.



------------------

> From the interview in December: 
>
> https://mormonleaks.io/wiki/documents/f/fd/2017-J
> oseph_L_Bishop-Transcript.pdf
>
> Do you remember . . .trying to rape
> me? But you didn't, because you didn't have a full
> erection. You don't remember that?

Where in there did Denson say Bishop didn't penetrate her? You are putting words in her mouth.

What she did say was that Bishop did not rape her because he couldn't keep a full erection, meaning he couldn't complete the coitus. But that is much more than is necessary for "rape," which is any penetration at all. That is why the police informed her that she'd been raped and then went after Bishop.



----------------

The bottom line is that there was no inconsistency in what Denson said happened in the MTC. Bishop has confessed to much of it, and other witnesses to his activities in his rape room have collaborated much of what she said.

I have trouble understanding what it is that makes you so unwilling to look at the evidence objectively. You care enough to denigrate her here, multiple times, but not enough to read the transcript and the police statements carefully. That is not a balanced approach.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/14/2018 01:34AM by Lot's Wife.

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Posted by: lisadee ( )
Date: August 23, 2018 06:54PM

But he's still in good standing with the church, huh. He's still "worthy",huh.

Boy, the LDS is so full of it.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 23, 2018 07:24PM

Yes.

It's a bit like Catholic clergy saying the victims of sexual abuse should shut up and respect the brethren.

There is something about the combination of male genitalia, the priesthood, and the right personal connections that renders one immune from legitimate criticism and legal responsibility. When confronted by such advantages, even some people who are no longer Mormon or Catholic still feel the need to defend the malefactors.

Which brings us back to the poll about gender rolls in Utah and the finding that women strongly feel that women should be limited to traditional roles in the family, the community, and the professional world. All of this bespeaks the durability of indoctrination and the fact that it takes decades or generations to eradicate it.

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Posted by: britintexas ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 11:51AM

I too am a victim of Joseph bishop. He was MTC President when i was a guest in his home. There are more of us out there (victims) we just need them to come forward. We do know of another who has stepped forward. My story has not gone public with the details. But a lawyer has the whole story.

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Posted by: midwestanon ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 11:58AM

If you feel comfortable doing so, you should create a separate thread about his treatment of you. There are a lot of people here who can empathize and maybe even point you in the direction of people who can get your story out in a more public way - again, if this is what you want.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: August 24, 2018 01:08PM

Agree with midwestanon. Only post if you feel comfortable, and be careful not to reveal more than you want.

But there are a lot of people here who can relate to what you probably have to say.

Assuming again that that would be helpful to you, which is all that really matters.

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