I am concerned when people say & act as though they can't function without / until their first dose each day...

Isn't this an aspect of an addiction?

It is not the coffee they need it is the shot of caffeine. That just happens to be their delivery system.

Caffeine is a drug, just not regulated. It can be highly addictive.

? same experience if people limit themselves to de-caf?

Define “drug”. Oxygen is considered a “drug”... I used to be an EMT years ago and recall it being labeled as such.
There’s a VAST difference between caffeine and meth.

I think I enjoy visiting with my friends at morning coffee as much as I like the beverage and I've been drinking coffee for 54 years. There are days when I don't drink any too.

I've been drinking coffee for decades and sometimes forget to have it in the morning if I'm busy. I have had no ill effects from drinking it or skipping it.

But I do remember being told at church that the reason mormons don't drink coffee is because it's the gateway to slavery and addiction. What nonsense. It's just a beverage.

Me too. I usually have 2 -3 three cups with half and half in the morning. Sometimes I forget and after a while I realize I didn't make coffee....oops, but no ill effects.

I do enjoy it, but in no way do I get crabby, non-functional, tired, etc., if I don't have it.

"It's just a beverage".....well put.

It's considered a staple food in the state I live. It isn't taxed because it's a food item.

People who are addicted to the caffeine go through withdrawal if they don't get their fix in the morning. That's why they can't function the same without it.

I know of people who say they don't experience withdrawal. When I drink caffeine I notice a headache if I don't get the same levels the following day from it.

When I was a practicing TBM my substitute was chocolate, only I didn't realize it until after leaving the cult. Once I allowed myself to drink teas and coffee my cravings for chocolate diminished proportionately. Me thinks I've always been addicted to caffeine in some form or another. It took leaving Moism for me to learn that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/15/2018 01:23PM by Amyjo.

I doubt there will ever be documentation sufficient to establish Why coffee made it to the Forbidden list, but here are my best guesses:


1. Drained $ away from church & member circulation


2. Was another opportunity to exercise control/intimidation to the mix of LDS leaders manipulating the rank-and-file.



is there any documentation that leaders exempted themselves from this advice - 'commandment'?

I think coffee and tea died from a couple's spat between Joe and Emma.

She took his alcohol and his brethren's tobacco and he took her coffee and tea.

It's still good for most of us as long as it's used in moderation.

I’ll admit that I’m overall way nicer after I have my cup of coffee haha. But I also enjoy drinking coffee while reading a good book, working and etc. I like trying new types of coffee.

Am I addicted to coffee? In a sense probably yes. But let me tell you that I find drinking coffee much better that drinking soda. My mom goes to the stupid soda shops in Utah daily!! Every morning she gets her Diet Coke with a shot of coconut. But in her eyes She does nothing wrong cause soda is church approved.

My mother did almost the same as yours. For her it was Diet Pepsi she was addicted to. Couldn't get enough of it.

Caffeine is absolutely an addictive substance, what’s up for debate is how harmful of an addiction it really is. I personally think there’s enough evidence to support the positive health benefits of moderate coffee consumption to outweigh the ‘risk’ of caffeine addiction. I usually start my day with one or two cups of coffee with some heavy cream and a tiny bit of simple syrup, if I skip a day I don’t have any noticeable effects or feel a great lack of energy or anything. I just enjoy my morning ritual of grinding and brewing my beans, carefully mixing my drink together, and sitting with my husband with my warm mug before heading off to work. It’s a peaceful and enjoyable start to my day.

Its like getting a hug or hugging a serape or your hoodie around your shoulders and face sitting up after you wake
Embracing your day instead of dragging teenagers before dawn out the door to early morning g seminary before dawn (cant believe I did that. Come to think of it this corresponds with when I quit the church it took 3 years if early morning seminary interrupting my hugs in the morning & then its like zim done done with the church. Coffee's better than driving teenagers to early morning seminary at the break of day. Direct substitution. I'm never never going back to a life without a warm drink to wake up to.

It's like brushing your hair gently out of your face instead of dragging tangled curls through a comb crying (life now compared to living lds driving teenagers before sunrise to California early morning seminary 5 days a week)

I'll take the coffee. Room for cream.

There seems to be no dearth of coffee--not on the endangered list, so I have no concern about who drinks it or when or why. It's no secret there is caffeine in it. No one is being duped. There seems to be plenty to crank everyone's engines if that is what they are used to. And it's fun to say you need it to get going. Most can get going without it no problem truth be told.

Much higher up on my list of concerns are outrageous sugar consumption leading to ill health and obesity, not enough honey bees, addiction to smart phones, people making right turns from the left lane, and old dogs. Nothing sweeter than an old dog and lots of them get dumped. They are much better for you than smart phones.

I love my coffee. I always start work before I even have any so don't need a jolt. Coffee mostly relaxes me and I sit and enjoy
it.

All good things have a down side as far as I can tell.

Just a moment. *sip* I can give up coffee any time I want. *sip...sip-sip*

*slurp* I'll be right back. I need a refill.

["What!? Who took the last of the coffee without making a new pot?" *fumbling with the coffee pouch* Maybe I should slow down and focus on the task of making coffee. *pacing in the break room while the coffee brews* Argh, what's taking so long? *ouch!* That's hot. Maybe I should wait for it finishes before trying to fill my cup.]

Ok, I'm back. *sip...ouch...sip...ouch...sip* Anyway, I don't know what this talk is about coffee being addictive. *sip...hot-hot...sip* I've been drinking coffee...*slurp...ow!...sip*...for years, and I've never noticed any signs of addiction.

*sip...ahh!...slurp...ouch* DAMN! I burned my mouth again.

LOL!

I like espresso. The darker and richer the better like chocolate.

There are worse addictions than coffee, tea, and tobacco. I wonder about food addiction. It just isn't talked about because our economy is all about addictions.

My now Exmormon formerly super TBM brother recently started drinking coffee. He can thank our parents for his new addiction because they raised us on Postum.

Both of us can have a cup of coffee right before bed no problem. It must be genetic.

If you Google: Does coffee prevent stroke?, the information box which comes up says that drinking one cup of coffee a day can decrease stroke risk by up to 20%.

I don't drink "coffee" (the coffee beans in hot water beverage) because I have never liked it (and also, it brings back some not-so-nice memories of my parents when I was growing up), but I DO, every day, as a part of my breakfast, have a cup of cold milk into which I have put a heaping teaspoon of instant coffee and a few drops of liquid stevia (for sweetening), and then stirred a few times over the next few minutes so the instant coffee can dissolve in the cold milk.

The decrease in stroke risk is important to me (as it should be to most everyone), so this is an unchanging part of my breakfast.

I wondered if I was "addicted" to caffeine.
'Cause I drink 2-3 10-oz cups every morning (not all at once, mind you, and no cream or sugar).

Then about a year ago, I scheduled a "full physical." Which included a heart stress test. The doc told me I had to have no caffeine for the week before the test.

So the six days before, and the morning of the test, I had decaf for my 2-3 cups.

No headaches, no withdrawl, no shakes, no anything.

Hmm. How about that.

I decided that what I enjoyed (but wasn't addicted to) was the careful, detailed ritual of brewing, the wonderful aroma, the bitter yet rich taste, the warm beverage rousing me from slumber. I could do without the caffeine, or have it there. Didn't really seem to matter. But not having my coffee *does* matter. Even if it's decaf!

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I wondered if I was "addicted" to caffeine.
> 'Cause I drink 2-3 10-oz cups every morning (not
> all at once, mind you, and no cream or sugar).
>
> Then about a year ago, I scheduled a "full
> physical." Which included a heart stress test.
> The doc told me I had to have no caffeine for the
> week before the test.
>
> So the six days before, and the morning of the
> test, I had decaf for my 2-3 cups.
>
> No headaches, no withdrawl, no shakes, no
> anything.
>
> Hmm. How about that.
>
> I decided that what I enjoyed (but wasn't addicted
> to) was the careful, detailed ritual of brewing,
> the wonderful aroma, the bitter yet rich taste,
> the warm beverage rousing me from slumber. I
> could do without the caffeine, or have it there.
> Didn't really seem to matter. But not having my
> coffee *does* matter. Even if it's decaf!


Decaf coffee or tea still has small amounts of caffiene.
"Even" with decaf, you're still getting a shot of it.

lisadee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Decaf coffee or tea still has small amounts of
> caffiene.
> "Even" with decaf, you're still getting a shot of
> it.

"Shot" is probably too strong a word...:)

My decaf had 4mg of caffeine. My regular coffee has 200mg.
50 times less than regular.

You and some others are talking like a die-hard Mormon, a habit we should all leave behind us. One is not addicted to anything unless one needs to have it throughout the day in order to function.

In the Air Force, back when we used to be able to smoke anywhere, I had a barracks mate who had to get up at least twice in the night to have a cigarette. He lit up as soon as he woke, and had several throughout the morning. He finished his day with a smoke just before turning in. At over three packs a day, one might say that he was addicted. (Besides, his hand were dark red, and his fingertips blue, except for the parts that were brown from tar.) My TBM sister says I'm "addicted" to coffee because I have one cup--one lousy cup--in the morning, and am very disappointed when I don't have one. A sure sign, according to her, that I'm addicted. Typically Mormon argument. Don't be a typical Mormon. All of us are better than that.

I can't stand coffee. It tastes disgusting and smells awful to me. I really don't understand the love. Tastes like burnt food to me.

Im a tea girl.

I think coffee is addicting for a lot of people, but not everyone

Is it weird that I want to be a tea person? I love the aesthetic of a nice cup of tea in pretty cups with a teapot. However, I'm not a fan of the taste. I've tried a few, but still not found that tea that can make me convert to it. (I also have this picture of being an organized person who can come home to a clean house once in a while; I think the tea thing is going to happen first).

I started drinking coffee just because I could. Now I don't mind it if it's decent coffee. I need a lot of milk and something sweet (sweetener or syrup). It's more routine than addiction now. At first, I felt shamed for it, but wanted to overcome that mental block. Now I just like it.

Like it was said, "it's just a beverage."

I do love the saying "but first, coffee." Again, I enjoy the routine of having my morning coffee. I didn't have any last week. It's just a joke.

Sipping a cup of Chai tea at the moment, topped with half-and-half non-fat cream.

Enjoy it more than coffee on a leisure morning.

Chai Tea is definitely my favorite! So many delicious spices. If I do go to a coffee shop, I only get chai tea.

I do like a good Chai tea. My brain forgets it's something that exists when I go to place my order at a coffee shop.

It's not an addiction, it's a physical dependency. "Addiction" is used to describe behavior patterns where a person compulsively does something even if/when doing that thing becomes harmful to his/her health & well-being.

A physical dependency happens when your body physically gets used to having a chemical state, usually produced by an external thing. Physical dependency can happen with many kinds of chemicals introduced into the body on a regular basis, from caffeine, to eye drops.

You can have an addiction and a physical dependency at the same time; one can lead to the other; or they can exist completely independently.

As our understanding of addiction grows, the WoW -- and the whole Mormon view of "striving to be perfect" -- seems more and more outdated and unhelpful.

I have a grad credential in the subject and worked for several years in a state-of-the-art treatment facility.

Addiction occurs when the body incorporates a substance into its physiological properties, and withdrawal occurs when a person abstains from it. The symptoms can vary from moderate to severe, or in the case of, say barbiturates, life-threatening. Alcohol addiction occurs in some people--about 10% of the population--and it can also be life-threatening. When I worked treatment, there was an apocryphal story about a center that had never lost a patient to heroin withdrawal but had lost 37 to alcohol.

People wanting to fact check my claims can consult the works of Dr. Drew Pinsky or Dr. Nora Volkow.

As for caffeine, I use it in moderation, and I probably "experience" some withdrawal, but so what? It keeps me alert, safer on the roads, and it's used socially with far fewer consequences than alcohol.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2018 10:47AM by SL Cabbie.

Caffeine is bad, yet the average Mormon downs high sugar garbage all day and are overweight and obese.

I don't tolerate caffeine very well, but, I swear by this, a cup of coffee makes me smarter! In graduate school, I drank a cup of coffee before every test, and I got an A every time! I just had a thought: that's why I didn't do as well at BYU--no caffeine! BYU needs caffeine!

In my great job in Silicon Valley, I had the task of making the coffee. They said it was because my office was closest to the coffee machine, but it was really because of my being a woman. (The other woman in our start-up business was an engineer, who worked in the assembly room.) Our little company thrived! It was a thrill to be part of that huge tech boom! I'm set for life, even if I quit working right now! I don't think we could have worked at such a feverish frenzy, and so intelligently, if we hadn't guzzled all that coffee. We were creating, doing things that were impossible, and training ourselves and others to do things we had never done before. It was the excitement of the job that was addicting, not the coffee.

Remember the old-time commercial about "The Coffee Achievers"? I think there's truth in that.

Yeah, if I missed my 3:00 cup of coffee, I would get a headache.

I began having intestinal problems, insomnia, and anxiety attacks, and was afraid it was from overwork and stress. When I quit the caffeine, the symptoms went away. I took Tylenol for the 3:00 headache, for a week or so. It really was no big deal.

A huge reason to quit coffee and tea is that it stains the teeth. My teeth are sensitive, and the whitening process is too painful, so I just don't let them get dark in the first place.

These days, I get the same morning lift, from my milk with vanilla, either hot, or over ice. Sometimes, I add almond and cinnamon to the hot milk. The protein in the milk sets me up for the day. I'm self conscious about NOT drinking coffee, like everyone else, so I keep my milk in an insulated container, and no one knows what I'm drinking.

It's probably 30% physical and 30% psychological, and 30% social.

Oops, haven't had my vanilla milk yet....

I have a morning cup of coffee...….black.
It's what keeps me regular.

I avoid sugar.


I don't do dairy except plain yogurt.


Addicted? Maybe.

But it's like eating healthy. It's drinking healthy.


not logged in this morning

Is it an addiction? Probably.

Can I function without it? Yes. But I definitely get moving faster with it. Especially since it helps open my sinuses from overnight allergy stuffiness.

Like anything else, the caffeine in coffee needs to be done in moderation.

When I used to work two jobs back to back for twelve straight years in a row from Mon-Fri, I'd be up from 7:00 a.m. each morning until after midnight at night burning the candle on both ends.

I hadn't been much of a coffee drinker before that time. Then I became addicted (yes, that is the right word to describe the dependency I had on it,) to coffee or caffeine to get me through the long hours of each work week.

Thank God those days are behind me. I can breathe so much easier now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2018 10:17AM by Amyjo.

I also have an addiction to sleep, cold water in my face, exercises, eyedrops, and reading the paper--in that order. You wouldn't believe the withdrawal when the paper doesn't get delivered. Way worse than not getting the coffee.

Caffeine aside, I like my routine even more than my dog likes hers. And she doesn't want to deviate from anything. At all. Ever.

I have yet to see someone turning tricks or robbing convenience stores to get a coffee fix. Too hard to rob them anyway what with all the people lined up to get their ten gallon sugary drinks.

Being a nevermor I have been drinking coffee since I was 18 anywhere from 1 cup to a pot of coffee and I have always drank my coffee black. Some morning I don't feel like having coffee, when I'm getting sick I don't drink coffee, when I was pregnant I completely lost the desire to drink coffee. I think it depends on a persons chemical make up on how they react to it.

Like the mom diet pepsi drinker my moms vice is diet coke and she can not go a day without it.

There are some who would argue against (anything), but many more who will agree with me, and my point, with the joint.

Drink some damn orange juice!
Listen to the flunking news.
Brush your teeth!

Who cares what you do
As long as you wake up

The difference between a Mormon and a non-Mormon is the temperature of their caffeine.

I drink a mug and a half of coffee every morning. Every now and then I have to skip a morning due to a medical test and I suffer no ill effects from skipping. I do miss it, though! So if it is an addiction, it's a very mild one. And unlike sugary sodas, it has a lot of positive health benefits. As others have pointed out, being alert while doing certain tasks such as driving can have benefits for the wider society as well.

This is one of those things about the mormon church that I think they got right, accidentally or not.

If you look at it purely as guidance for healthy living.

If a person needs that $5 latte every morning, that is not healthy and it is pretty expensive too.