So they do know the wheels fell off their church.

what does that even mean? It really makes no sense to me.

It's a way to say the apostles are "special witnesses" even if they haven't seen Jesus.

The change was, as you intimate, a huge acknowledgement that the church has no special powers.

ditto

It is complete meaningless gibberish.

I'm a witness to the name, even gemini. I'm not even special.

I'm a special witness to the name, even, of Han Solo.

Amen and pass the blaster.

And always remember: Han shot first!

Void K. Packer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And always remember: Han shot first!

Actually it was only Han that shot. Greedo never got off a shot, contrary to the revisionist history George Lucas now professes. Chewbacca actor Peter Mayhew definitively ended the debate when he shared a picture of his copy of the script for 'Star Wars' (or 'A New Hope' for those of you who like to go along with George Lucas' constant revisions) proving that it was only Han Solo who shot, and thus "shot first".

https://twitter.com/thewookieeroars/status/705043238382604288

Sorry, now back to your regularly scheduled ex-Morm...ooops...ex-member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints discussion.

They were hoping most members would not catch on.

Should that be, "special witness to the name of Jesus, even the Christ?"

to understand this, look in most any dictionary under 'lame'....



just sayin'

I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised at anything these guys do, but it seems especially cynical and gutless. They really went there? They must be pretty sure they’ll never actually meet Jesus because they’d have some ‘splainin’ to do.

They must have been advised by their lawyers. When there’s money at stake, they’ll throw even the son of God under the bus.

The 'special witness to the name of Jesus Christ' title I think has evolved, so as to slightly reduce the lie told, every time someone uses that title. It started out as people with that title saying that they are 'special witnesses of Jesus Christ'. The church took a lot of flack over that, because of the bold-faced lie that claim is. So they cut it back some, so as to not be called on that lie, publicly. Anybody can witness a name in good concience, even an athiest. Just because you see the reality that such a name exists, doesn't mean that any person with that name is/was a God. That is quite different than claiming to be a 'special witness of Jesus Christ', complete with everything the church teaches about him (heavily implied). I tend to believe that the church made the change to witness the name instead of being a special witness of the actual deity, because of some legal implication (like fraud) claims made either in a court of law, or by a government somewhere. Who knows, perhaps someone granted that title by the church, could have turned out to be a child molestor, this being a terrible embarrassment to the church. In any event, the church does not give-up anything for free, especially when it comes to their outlandish religious claims. They had a reason to do it. One that matters in the real world. The fact that they even tried-on using that bold-faced lie as an organization speaks volumes about what a cult the mormon church is.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/28/2018 09:21AM by azsteve.

I’m a special witness to the name of Homer Simpson.

One of the television hosts of "American Ninja Warrior", Akbar Gbaja-Biamila, is famous for congratulating and cheering on contestants by shouting, "I see you! I see you!" (You know you've made it when Akbar acknowledges that he's seen you.)

In my crazy cartoon bubble I see him shouting, "I see your name! I see your name!"

So that explains something I saw today -- there were pictures released of Prince Harry's room while he was at boarding school at 18, and the wall decor included a sexy but tasteful pinup of Halle Berry, then at her peak. She posted this photo on her Twitter feed with the words: "I see you, Prince Harry!" I didn't know it was a recent pop-culture catchphrase.

So, like for sure Jesus name is Jesus. Like really. For sure. Honest.

Wow. Good to know. Cuz like up until now, even with the Bible and stuff I couldn't be sure.

Oh yeah, well I'm a special witness to Queen + Adam Lambert. I've seen them twice in LA and now...

Going to Vegas this weekend to see them in The Crown Jewels Tour. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!


We are the champions- Dennis

Really? They are that good?
I have been debating on buying tickets. I am not crazy about Lambert he just makes me miss Freddie but Roger & Brian are awesome.
Freddie himself was a Godhead:)
Report back on the venue & seating, please!!!!!!

I miss Freddie...and John Deacon.

I saw Queen a few times starting with the Day At the Races tour. They were always amazing. I just don't think I can deal with Adam Lambert.

I will return and report.

You really must give them a listen- They are freaking awesome.
Adam isn't trying to replace Freddie, but honor his legacy.

-The Show Must Go On- Dennis

Come to think of it, it’s more accurate than the old way. Do they love Jesus, or do they love the name of Jesus? Do they love God or Mormon God? I like these incremental improvements.

They still say they have experiences "too sacred to talk about" which to the rank and file members mean THEY'VE SEEN JESUS.

So i'm really not all that sure what they are trying to pull with the special witness to the name of JC. I think they did a market study and somebody told them it sounded good.

I wish that Joseph Smith’s experiences had been too sacred to talk about. The world would have been spared from Mormonism.

If they say it’s "too sacred to talk about", didn’t they just talk about it? It’s humble bragging. You’re not special enough to hear it. In other words, they like smelling their own farts.

Well aren't they special. Bless their little hearts.

LOL!

We all have things, often inadequately unexplained, that just drive us more crazy than anything else regarding the church. This is one of the big ones for me. Actually allowing members to believe that you have some inside, special knowledge to the existence of God or Christ, and then not ever specifically explaining what that experience/knowledge is, is the height of religious hubris! In fact, I think it smacks of religious abuse. It just drives mr crazy! I want to smack the 15, everytime I think them!! Ugh -

I’m imagining Moe slapping Curly and Larry and 12 other guys all arranged in a circle.

What they are saying, known or unknown to them, is that they are calling themselves special witnesses to the Greek Title, Jesus Christ.

Yes, but "Special witness to the name Yeshua Hamashiach" just doesn't have the same ring to it, does it? :)

n/t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2018 02:00PM by Nightingale.

Google.

Jesus must give really lousy instructions.

n/t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2018 02:00PM by Nightingale.

Fat fingering a phone isn’t that easy.

In the name of our lard and savor, even the lard of all the earth, even Jessssus Effen (the vodka) Chrisssst. Ammmmmmmmen.

They're admitting that they have never seen Jesus Christ. Then they (metaphorically) wink at you.

They better not ever pull that "I am a special witness..." or that "I know the church is true" crap on me again. I'll humiliate them in front of their friends or who ever is around when they say it. Every mormon testimony is so weak that they're all easy to lead to embarrassment to the person who tells those lies if they are anywhere else outside of church when they say it. And if I am around to call them on their lies.

Anyone who believes in Jesus can say that. So what makes them so special?

The short bus.

Regarding this apostle chit... Jesus called apostles in Israel and he called 'disciple/apostles' here in America, but did any of the apostles call apostles?

It seems to me that by Jesus' own rules, only He can call you an ass-hole, er, apostle. And that seems fitting.

So some apostles getting together to call more apostles... why stop at 15, like they do now?

I suspect it's all a scam.

Ya think?

It’s a weird culture for sure. They are basically royalty with lots of groupies. They have a customer base that essentially wants to be lied to. It’s not as simple as coming clean because of the legal implications. What did they know and when did they know it? They’re like cigarette company executives. I’ll bet Uchtdorf is happy he was asked to leave the party before it got really weird.

For god's sake, people, this is like RfM's version of a faith-promoting rumor.

There is no legal trickery involved, and the church didn't catch any flak and have to change their wording on advice of their lawyers. Look, here's their official website:

https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostles/what-are-prophets-testimonies?lang=eng

See that? Right there at the top of the page, in big letters? "SPECIAL WITNESSES OF CHRIST."

Just because some GAs try to make themselves sound important by sometimes saying "special witnesses to the NAME of Christ" doesn't. Mean. Anything. They also sometimes say "special witnesses FOR Christ." They're just trying to use lots of different words to sound grandiose, puffed up, yea, even asinine.

Full of sound and fury, they are, signifying nothing, and you all give them waaaaay too much credit. Now, go on about your business, and quit bringing this up as if the world is ending every time you happen to hear a GA insert the word "name" as if he has some nefarious purpose.

He doesn't. They aren't that smart.

To paraphrase the Savior, let the brain dead bury the brain dead.

Anziano Young Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> For god's sake, people, this is like RfM's version
> of a faith-promoting rumor.
>
> There is no legal trickery involved, and the
> church didn't catch any flak and have to change
> their wording on advice of their lawyers. Look,
> here's their official website:
>
> https://www.lds.org/prophets-and-apostles/what-are
> -prophets-testimonies?lang=eng
>
> See that? Right there at the top of the page, in
> big letters? "SPECIAL WITNESSES OF CHRIST."
>
> Just because some GAs try to make themselves sound
> important by sometimes saying "special witnesses
> to the NAME of Christ" doesn't. Mean. Anything.
> They also sometimes say "special witnesses FOR
> Christ." They're just trying to use lots of
> different words to sound grandiose, puffed up,
> yea, even asinine.
>
> Full of sound and fury, they are, signifying
> nothing, and you all give them waaaaay too much
> credit. Now, go on about your business, and quit
> bringing this up as if the world is ending every
> time you happen to hear a GA insert the word
> "name" as if he has some nefarious purpose.
>
> He doesn't. They aren't that smart.

I happen to believe/understand that Very Little of what they publicly say is 'off script', I think they plan the trajectory of almost every sentence, every phrase, almost every word with great care. They certainly don't care about individuals, but the appeal/ appearance of things is too important to be ad-lib or spontaneous.

Do you honestly think that GAs are following a Church-approved "script" to use only the phrase "special witnesses to the name of Christ" when

a) The church's official website, official publications, and official media still use the phrase "special witnesses of Christ"
b) GAs are not consistent in using either phrase, or substituting it with "special witnesses for Christ"

I think you are confusing Mormon-specific vocabulary, which happens naturally, with scripting. No one told everyone to start using the phrase "tender mercies" all the time, but once Bednar did, now everyone does. Same thing with any rise in incidence of "special witnesses to the name of Christ," once one GA started saying it to make himself sound smart, others follow suit like sheep.

The point is, there is no cover-up, there are no legal issues here (seriously, people? Legal issues? Churches can claim whatever the hell they want in this country*), and if there were, you can bet the church's official mouthpieces would have stopped using the original phrase--and denied they ever had used it.

*I work for a Catholic church, which is a whole other pile of bullshit. If churches were culpable for their claims, the first victim of any legal action would be the easily-disproven Catholic claim that Jesus' body and blood are present in the eucharistic host. Mormon apostles claiming to have seen Jesus would be way, way down the list.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2018 10:50AM by Anziano Young.

I keep wanting to believe they’re not dumber than shit.

From: https://www.lds.org/scriptures/bd/apostle

“The calling of an Apostle is to be a special witness of the NAME of Jesus Christ in all the world, particularly of His divinity and of His bodily resurrection from the dead (Acts 1:22; D&C 107:23).”

Bednar seems to be a meme starter. He’s a word guy, so maybe the Name is a big deal to him. It’s too bad he won’t turn that mind to the church’s problems. But of course, he can see nothing from that side of the “veil”.

Bednar oversaw a stake conference when I was in high school and he was an Area Authority. My father--a die-hard Mormon, CES employee, and on the stake High Council--described his handshake as a "cold fish." Ha ha!

But...it's right there in the name of the church!

We know that this nonsense has been perpetuated for some 25 years now. Many of us were asleep, drunk with kool-aid or didn't give a damn.

Back in 1992, we missionaries were given explicit (I actually wish that I had the memo-driven document) instructions about missionary do's and don't-s. This was a huge regional conference in a high school auditorium that seated about 3000 members.

No asking for autographs.
No picture-taking cameras or videos
No recording devices
Do not put your hand out for a handshake unless it is first extended towards you.
Do not invite non-members.
Do not request any blessings or prayers.

Can you guess why I am unable to recall the apostle that came?

I and some other mission president's shit-list mishies was out in the parking lot directing traffic for the entire event.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/29/2018 02:36PM by messygoop.

It's to say, " we have seen and been around Jesus and you haven't so you better shut the hell up and listen to what we have to say."

I am a special witness to advocate using the name "ASSpostHOLE" for any MORmON executive leader that uses that SUPER LAME ASS approach to the matter of testifying about their supposed knowledge of (MORmON) Jesus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=52XoDQL8lmg