https://invisiblescubit.wordpress.com/2018/08/29/excommunication-notice/

Join me as I weep.

This is why the church is going to die. It’s beyond redemption. Nothing can fix its dysfunction. Nice try, Sam. They are delivered up.

It shows the futility of trying to change the church from within.

They are doomed by their lawyers.

Their playground

Their ball

Their rules


Fewer and fewer players...

Yet, they aren't even following their own rules.

They never told Sam he was being seen as "encouraging others to vote opposed to church leaders". In fact he never did that. He told everyone they need to vote as per the dictates of their own conscience. I guess that means "vote opposed" in the minds of the fifteen.

Sam should KICK THEM OUT!

It's his playground and he invented the ball (and it cost a lot of money): TRANSPARENCY, HONESTY, OPENNESS, NO (kid's [sacredly] being questioned) BS [when it comes to secret meetings with KIDS].

Oh yea, they popped his ball.
He should kick them in theirs'.
Oh yea, they don't have any.

He's got 'Rainbow Balls'.

I would submit as my 45 minute defense letter sent detailing abuse. I would begin my defense listing the names and ages of people who took their own lives.

Let that be read. Word for word. Into the record. See if after 45 minutes the stake president and high council can in good conscious find against him.

I hope the best for him.

I doubt this would silence him.

You can’t violate your conscience if you don’t have one.

Reminds me of Jeremy Runnells’ disgraceful treatment by the Rattle-day Snakes.

Yes.

Again and again.

That’s the funniest name I’ve ever heard!

Pretty certain the minute "he washed people's feet" his fate was set. He did what no leader ever had the time or desire to do, help those who had been hurt.
I think Sam also knew this day was coming, it was always a matter of "when" not if.

He backed the church into a corner, they couldn't get out of it, this is their retaliation ...they will cause more damage than they know, the name MORMON will forever be known, no matter how hard they try to get away with it.

Sam's stake President has been given orders from the top ...get rid of him at all costs" that is clear when they state he doesn't even have to be at his own court, or they even invited him to resign before the date and they wouldn't hold the court. They want him gone and gone now.

I'm betting his Stake President is praying with deliver a resignation notice this week, it would save him a lot of time and having to be the churches scapgoat in this matter. They dont want the media outside their church, they dont want anyone to know exactly what was sad when they do hold that court .... the Stake President has no choice, hes been given his orders. I hope sincerely when this is over, they all walk away form the church too now that they have seen it in its true light.

britintexas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty certain the minute "he washed people's
> feet" his fate was set. He did what no leader ever
> had the time or desire to do, help those who had
> been hurt.
> I think Sam also knew this day was coming, it was
> always a matter of "when" not if.
>
> He backed the church into a corner, they couldn't
> get out of it, this is their retaliation ...they
> will cause more damage than they know, the name
> MORMON will forever be known, no matter how hard
> they try to get away with it.
>
> Sam's stake President has been given orders from
> the top ...get rid of him at all costs" that is
> clear when they state he doesn't even have to be
> at his own court, or they even invited him to
> resign before the date and they wouldn't hold the
> court. They want him gone and gone now.
>
> I'm betting his Stake President is praying with
> deliver a resignation notice this week, it would
> save him a lot of time and having to be the
> churches scapgoat in this matter. They dont want
> the media outside their church, they dont want
> anyone to know exactly what was sad when they do
> hold that court .... the Stake President has no
> choice, hes been given his orders. I hope
> sincerely when this is over, they all walk away
> form the church too now that they have seen it in
> its true light.

I believe the letter is pretty much a form letter given to anyone "invited" to a church disciplinary hearing.

But you are correct, the minute the church is backed into a corner, instead of apologizing or admitting a mistake, they lash out.

I hope Sam does not resign and forces the church to own its position on this matter. If he resigns, the church can wash its hands of Sam. Of course the Stake President can conveniently ask to be released from his calling if he does not wish to be the church scapegoat.

I wish Sam would put blow the letter up and put it on a billboard.

The best defense is a good offense--but only if people are watching the game in the first place.

That is why the Mormons can get away with this type of behavior. It isn't noteworthy to the rest of the world. The Pope blinks and it makes the papers. Interest in the Mormons worldwide however is more in line with the interest shown for the East Cupcake Knitting Circle and Book Club. The what????

Get some attention and sell hot dogs, Sam. Maybe enlist the help of Hans now he has been voted off AGT.

I am so sorry, but who is "Sam"?

"Sam Young, a practicing Mormon who authored the petition, included this preface: “This petition is not meant to disparage the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints or its leaders in any way. Rather, its purpose is to call for major changes to one particular practice.”"



https://www.worldreligionnews.com/religion-news/online-petition-to-stop-mormon-men-from-talking-about-sex-with-children

He will not eat sacrament in a chapel. He will not eat sacrament and go to the temple.

The Church of Play the Game Our Way or We'll Show You the Highway.

Sam Young has given a lot of himself and his resources to stand up and speak lound and clear for LDS youth. Thank you, Sam.

Do they allow members to record the proceedings?

Sam has made his point, left his mark on The Beast that the LDS Church has become.

Sam, my advice (fwiw) is to resign

Dont let them leave their mark on You!

a friend.

"Everyone who attends the council including you and me, will sign an acknowledgment that the council will be conducted privately and confidentially and will not be recorded in any form. Anyone unwilling to do so will not be allowed to be present at the council. If you decline, you will not be allowed to be present, and any statement on your behalf to the council will have to the submitted in writing."

"You may call witnesses, one at a time, whose testimony is relevant to the issues I have set out above. However, any such witnesses must be identified to me in writing by name, ward and stake, at least three days in advance. You must also provide to me, in advance and in writing, a description of the subject matter on which they will testify and the content of their testimony. In order to offer testimony, witnesses must be members of the Church in good standing. I will abide by these same rules in regards to any witnesses that I may call."

"Sam, I know that Heavenly Father lives and loves you. We are his children. His work and glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man. I know that His son Jesus Christ is central to God’s plan to help us return to Him and live with our family forever. The atonement of Jesus Christ is real. He is our Savior and Redeemer. No matter the course you decide to take in this life, and no matter the outcome of this disciplinary council, as His representative in the stake where you reside, I stand ready to help you and your family in any way that I can. I will be here to meet with you and to work with you to help strengthen your relationship with Heavenly Father and His Son, Jesus Christ. My hope is that you will choose to change your course and to return to the covenant path.

Sincerely,

President Houston Texas South Stake

This is good fun for a good cause. Exactly what I was hoping for.

Can you bring this up on The View?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/30/2018 09:00PM by jay.

Excommunication is all the church knows when it comes to dealing with its critics -- even if the criticism is richly justified.

I've had several boats during my earlier years;

open boats are prone to taking on water, If someone rocks the boat, it might expel the water gently.

in rough weather, if the boat takes on too much water, it Sinks.


so with the LDS 'boat', no one's up to rocking it (except Sam & others like him)

Love Boat soon will be making another run
The Love Boat promises something for everyone

Where’s Isaac when you really need him?

Do what is right, let the consequence follow.

I cannot believe that TSCC, (even the Mormon church, Ziontology, or the Corporation of the President of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, even this rotten lump of cabbage that they believe smells like a rose), is probably going to ex-communicate Sam Young. What more can they do to prove that they are nothing but a corrupt caricature of a religious organisation?

This so-called church protects rapists, blames the victims of rape and calls rape “non-consensual immorality”. It turns a blind eye towards paedophilia within its ranks, teen suicides and spousal abuse. By refusing to renew a temple recommend, it sends a loud and clear message to any mother who, (horror of horrors), tries to do something so immoral and un-natural as breast feeding her infant in public view. When it failed to “cure” gays by electro conversion therapy, shaming and forced ‘straight” marriages, this unholy and abominable viper calling itself a church, then turned its fangs on the children of gays, refusing to baptise them before the age of 18 and then only if they disavow their parent’s lifestyle.

This is a church that supposedly preaches the importance of family. It is a church that emphasises avoiding even the appearance of evil, but when a family man is concerned about one on one, adult to child interviews behind closed doors involving sexually explicit questions and tries to garner public support to stop this practice, he is ignored initially and then summoned to a court of love.

Love? Bullshit!! The only thing TSCC loves is money. One man can interview children as young as eight behind closed doors and talk to them about sex and masturbation, but where counting or banking money is concerned there must always be two men present.

….
Sam young, I admire you. You stepped into the unknown and you fought a good fight. You might not have changed anything yet, but you have sown the seeds and what you have planted will be harvested one day.

I know that ex-communication will be hard for you (I have been through it), and no-one will blame you for resigning before TSCC rubs your nose in it, but the church is going to look very foolish if they ex-communicate you for trying to protect children whilst at the same time trying to show how it can also avoid the appearance of evil. Go for the court of love. If you do get tossed out, then take satisfaction in knowing that a martyr is remembered long after one who meekly submits.

There is zero tolerance for dissent or speaking up openly and honestly against the dysfunctional practices of TSCC.

It will always have the 'last word' within its corridors.

Sam Young doesn't have to subject himself to that further control and abuse by the morg. He could simply resign and walk away. Either way, he will have chosen the higher ground than the church' position on the matter.

There is no room for clear thinking and action in such an environment. Only a cult would do as much to its members. From early youth in its closed door meetings. To its 'disciplinary councils' of the parents who challenge the insidiousness of said practice.

I think he needs to finish the job. The message is that acting noblely and for the greatest good is an excommunicable offense. Mormons need to hear that message.

I admire Sam Young for speaking out and holding protests on temple square, but what I can't understand is why he is afraid to lose his church membership. He still wants to be part of TSCC and is planning to attend his court of love on Sept 9th. I hope in the meantime that someone will encourage him to dig deeper and have his shelf come crashing down entirely; then he could go to the court of love if he wants to and flip everyone off and excommunicate them!

Because it's his church too. Who gets to decide who is and isn't a "real" Mormon? Do the G-15 "own" the church? They always talk like they do- they always tell "us" how proud or impressed or upset "we" are with "you", meaning the non-G-15 members of the organization. That is what Sam was trying to break- as were Kate, John, Jeremy, the September 6, Sonia, Byron and thousands of others.

After reading the blog, the church need not worry about losing their brainwashed hardliner members. Quite a few support the church and believe that Sam should have sit down and shut up after the church "fixed" their interview policy to allow a parent to sit in on their child's interview.

I still get chills thinking that I would agree to have my TBM sitting next to me as a 14 year old teacher is asked about masturbation.

I think Sam will go out with class. In a case of life imitating art, he took up his cross. His SP will wash his hands and then there will be the public spectacle. Pharisees never change.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pharisees never change.

Amen and amen.

I mean I'm not surprised. At all. And btw, it's disturbing and a huge RED FLAG that every person in attendance has to sign a 'will not record' agreement.

I do hope he resigns before their stupid 'court'. Stop giving them power, Sam.

It looks like the Warren Jeffs way of Mormon thinking has infected the Church leadership in the Houston area.

...In the Houston area? I don't think Houston thought anything; I think there was a message from SLC: "Houston, you have a problem..." And Houston was 'inspired' on how to take care of the problem.

The DN take is very aggravating

https://www.deseretnews.com/article/900030038/heres-why-a-former-mormon-bishop-faces-discipline-from-the-church-of-jesus-christ-of-latter-day-saints.html

The worst line is this one:
"But research suggests that when youths have positive interactions with adult leaders who are religiously active they have positive outcomes and become well equiped to handle challenges as they become adults."

That is relevant only if you believe that having an adult ask children sexually explicit questions is a positive interaction.

"...research suggests..."

This means that someone twisted some bit of a study into something that fit the needed criteria.

Research doesn't 'suggest' that getting a measles vaccination is a positive step; it proves it!

Research suggests that the DN is a house organ, preaching in newsprint only what the fossil 15 want to be published.

Okay, I'm going into full-on analyst mode here. No, research does not prove that vaccines prevent measles. Research cannot prove anything 100%. It can, with generally accepted criteria, demonstrate a degree of confidence that the reader may or may not accept. For measles I would guess that the confidence level is something above 99.999%.

The question for the DN reporter is what confidence level the research leads to. What is the study design? Random or observational? In other words, did they pick and choose who got surveyed? Did they ask the children of prominent Mormons who wanted to stay prominent? If they sent out anonymous surveys, we know that that in itself self-selects people with positive responses. And so on. And what is the comparison with a control group? Do the means pass the appropriate t-test?

That's how to interpret a "survey".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/31/2018 10:49PM by slskipper.

Obsessive bookworm that I am, I followed the link to another DN article and then to the sources it claimed. So we are already at two removes from the original material.

The DN articles both act as if they are relying on a single source but they are not; they depend on three different publications by three different authors. The first one says some nice things about Mormon teenagers but does not say anything about bishops' interviews. I'd consequently argue that it is not relevant.

The other two points, which the DN mistakenly attributes to the aforementioned author are even more tenuous. One isn't remotely on point while the other is by a BYU professor who wants to nice things about the church. (I wonder if he has tenure yet.) So in summary, none of the sources cited has anything to do with bishops' interviews and one of them isn't even about Mormons.

"Research suggests" that the DN is the Mormon equivalent of the National Enquirer.

Sam opened a can of worms.

I hope he goes fishing!

M@t

I will show up and support Sam.

The tribunal will be held on Sunday, September 9th at 6pm in the Sugar Land chapel at 14555 Lexington Blvd, Sugar Land, TX.

It’s between the Lollipop Woods and Gumdrop Mountains.

The Mormon church reminds me so much of a job. The church tells you when and where to show up, has expectations, assigns tasks, stresses exact obedience and conformity to directives from above, and "fires" you if you question authority.

But guess what? Until they kick Sam out of the chapel, he can keep showing up to the meetings if he so wishes. But he will be exempted from paying tithing and having callings. This is a bad thing?

Anyone know if Sam reads here at RFM?

Phoenix area peeps are encouraged to attend a temple side vigil September 9,3pm to 6pm, at Pioneer Park, across from the Mesa temple. Meet Dorothy and win valuable prizes.