I certainly can't doubt your word regarding your certainties, but I would like some feedback on a very interesting, even poignant issue regarding answers to prayers, and other such responses from 'somewhere higher up'.

I'm sure my question is one that even many believers have... How many Christians have asked and begged and pleaded and gotten bupkis?

So, WHY YOU?

Why does one particular person get help from their ghawd, while others, maybe even a majority of those who ask, don't get the help they want?

RfM'er Amyjo has borne her testimony on numerous occasions about the hand of ghawd reaching out to her to be of service. Amyjo, do you have any thoughts as to why you? And why so many times!!

"Some of God's greatest gifts are unanswered prayers"

I think, as a child, when you try to pray, you think it's just like asking your parents "pretty please?" The idea of God is one that is hard to fathom, even for adults. It can change all throughout your life, so what you pray for will change as well.

For me, the idea of prayer is more than just "asking". It's also "thanking", "talking", "wondering", among other things. When I am asked to pray, say, for someone that is ill and may even die, I don't pray for them to recover necessarily. I pray, fervently, for comfort for both the person and all the people that love them. People die. Every day. I don't know what God's plan is, but I can ask that those in that situation can find some modicum of peace with it.

I think that to pray effectively, I need to first really search inside myself before I start that conversation. Sometimes what we want isn't what we need. Asking for what we need can be hard. Sometimes it can take a while.

Have prayers been answered? Yes. Even the "pretty please" kind sometimes. Why? I'm not God, so I don't think I can answer that.

I'm not sure I have answered your question very well, and for that I apologize.

I guess for me prayer is much more complicated. It is active, not passive. It's the language used in a friendship.

Love this. ^^^^

I will now reveal the great and grand mystert of the multiverse.

In real life when your parents don't give you what you want what do you do?

You go over their heads and ask grandparents.

So try praying to heavenly grandma. It works soooo much better!

When I pray for myself or others, I ask God that it be His Will.
...His Will for protection, jobs & financial blessings, healing & life, restoring families & marriages, and drawing children and relatives to Him.

There have been so many prayers of mine God has given what I asked for myself and others.
....especially those for me. God has protected and provided me in some very low times in my life: thru no job, no car, no money for rent, food and bills,even thru homelessness. He answered my prayers. He gave me grace, mercy and favor. He preserved my life thru 2 heart attacks and other health issues.

I am a firm believer in prayer. I have no doubt that prayer changes things. I know there is power in the name of Jesus.


I will lift up mine eyes unto the hills, from whence cometh my help.

2 My help cometh from the LORD, which made heaven and earth.
Psalms 121

I love that.

That is beautiful, lisadee. I know how you mean.

The psalm by David is powerful because it's true.

lisadee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> When I pray for myself or others, I ask God that
> it be His Will.

So, are you saying that you can change God’s will? Or that he will change his will if you ask him to? or That it was already his will and that it was also his will that you ask? Or something else?

In any of these scenarios, what’s the point of prayer if God’s will is unchangable? Does that mean your will trumps God’s? What if two equally righteous people pray for two contradictory outcomes? How does God decide which prayer will be His will?

I have heard one person's explanation of

"If you view prayer as something like going up to an ATM machine, and punching in some numbers in order to get what you want, you have a very infantile view of what prayer is "

I think that is the view of many people have about prayer. The idea of its about getting something out of an ATM machine, rather than a relationship

Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2018 11:27AM by cl2.

Many people have their prayers answered. Why does God intervene to let us know we're not alone? I asked him during my agnostic phase as a young adult, and he responded then. And has time and again many times. Rather than asking others why prayer helps us, ask him instead.

My faith started small, like that of a mustard seed spoken of in scripture, following my agnostic phase. I was saved then, literally. I've seen his protection throughout my life and blessings. I'm thankful for that.

So I don't wonder whether whoever God is, is real. My faith has grown and continues to grow. I feel loved and watched over. That's enough for me. Like Tevai has said of her religion and mine, to be a repairer in the world and make it what it could and should be, is an act of love. That connects us to God in the living.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2018 07:35AM by Amyjo.

Not a believer, but I've observed that virtually every prayer I've seen "answered" could either be chalked up as something that was already likely to happen or as "God helping those who help themselves."

When a desired outcome is expressed in the form of a prayer, the person praying has already primed their subconscious to be on the lookout for a means of bringing about the desired outcome through their own efforts.

And that doesn't even get into the issue of confirmation bias, where they'll convince themselves that any outcome is desired regardless of what outcome was expressly desired in the prayer.

I don't want this to go in that direction, Greg.

I asked a question, but perhaps I should rephrase it:

Those of you who have prayers answered, what do you say to those people who say they prayed but never any response from ghawd, and they ask you, why did you get an answer and I didn't?

elderolddog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Those of you who have prayers answered, what do
> you say to those people who say they prayed but
> never any response from ghawd, and they ask you,
> why did you get an answer and I didn't?

That's why I didn't chime in (until now).
I've never had a prayer answered. So I've never had that "wow, the all-powerful creator of the universe took time out to do a special physics-busting favor just for me!" feeling that comes from it.

I mean, sure, things I prayed for (long ago) came to be. But things I prayed for (long ago) also didn't come to be. If you pay attention, it turns out that things come to be or not at the exact same rate whether you pray about them or not. So there doesn't seem to be any point in praying that I can see.

Mullah Nasruddin was going to be late for an important meeting and had been circling around the parking lot several times looking for a space.

"Please, God," he prayed, "if you get me a parking space within five minutes, I will eat kosher (halal) for a month!"

And right then, a car in front of him pulled out, leaving him an ideal space.

"Never mind, God. I found one myself!"

My apologies.

No hay de que, vato. Vamos bien.

Gracias, y perdón por mi Google?

My prayers last longer than your prayers.

The more puzzling question is why it is OK with believers that God decides to answer their prayer about all kinds of personal things while allowing others to suffer, die, and live miserable lives.

Why wouldn't they feel troubled to have God's special attention? That kind of God is quite disturbing. Do they really feel that special? It is NOT OK for God to allow the holocaust and then answer grandma's prayer to spare her house in a flood.

The way you speak of prayer is not how I define prayer. When I pray I ask for guidance and direction. When I've received blessings and divine intercession I've felt very grateful, but not special, because God loves all his children the same.

I've suffered and gone through some pretty sh*tty times in my life. I didn't lose my faith despite that because that is what helped me through. We're all born to die. And no, faith does not explain why things happen like horrific wars or the Holocaust. Even during the darkest days of the Holocaust the faithful believing Jews continued praying. To be in the world is to be exiled from God. This life is only temporary to begin with. Elie Wiesel, in "Night," wrote that he saw God in the twisted face of death of a little boy hanging in the gallows. That is where he found God, staring back at him.

Evil exists in the world. That is a given. We can live our lives as best we can with purpose, and try to alleviate some of the suffering. Be of service. Our duty is first to our families, ourselves I believe. Like the old adage, 'Reform is like charity and begins at home.'

For me, God is in the details of all existence. He created us from matter, and ashes to ashes dust to dust we return. Our lives are fleeting. God is eternal.

I dunno. From what you said, if God "loves all his children the same" he has an inconsistent way of showing it.

I would not be happy receiving blessings or divine intercession knowing others are not. That is not OK. It's not fair. I could not be grateful for such attention or injustice.

The OT God is beyond psychotic which is one issue. However, we see many who seem egocentric, using God as intervening for ups and downs in their special lives. It makes me think they feel helpless or want attention. It's a whole different mindset.

and now. He thinks it is arrogant of us to look at all that is bad in the world and then think God is interceding on our behalf. But then being raised as mormons, we were taught we were the choice spirits or whatever so we deserved the good things in life. AND if we had bad things happen, then we were doing something others weren't aware of. It never really came down to God is testing you even though they "say that."

After what I've seen and experienced, I agree with my boyfriend.

The help I've gotten in life has come from long-time relationships that I have developed. My aunt and my mother are 2 who seemed to be the ones who knew when I needed them without my asking.

Anyway, I think with my children, I don't expect them to worship me and I certainly love them equally and I wouldn't want any of them to suffer, so I ask myself why would God allow so much suffering if he is there? I help them according to their needs and I don't leave either of them in dire situations without my help even if they don't pray to me daily or are religious or striving to be perfect.

If ever anyone had intention when asking, it would be me. I couldn't imagine that my ex was damned for being gay or for any of his actions over his lifetime. If ever anyone wanted my family to be whole, for my kids to not lose their dad, it would be me.

What happened was NEVER my intention, EVER, but I've made it work in terms of my ex and I are good friends. My kids are now close to their dad for the most part. BUT was this my intention. Like I said above, I spent so damn much time on my knees asking for help with the gay issue that I refuse to ever get on my knees to pray again.

THIS--what came to be--WAS NOT MY INTENTION.

My attitude has become "Life is what happens while we're making plans." NOTHING in my life has turned out as I planned and it didn't matter how hard I may have prayed at some time in my life. I used to fall asleep on my knees every damn night or day or whenever I was praying. I know my ex begged to be made straight for a long time.

I like your question EOD since my mother has her prayers answered at the rate of one every hour while as a believer I never had a single one answered. I never felt anything at all. Even after fasting. I was a nice kid. Why was I ignored and everybody else was being pelted with spiritual responses non stop?

I heard the "sometimes the answer is no" reason given, but why should "no response whatsoever be taken as a no?" When not take it as what it really is. Truth in packaging: Bupkis.

Then I heard the "it's all part of God's plan" thing, which means you are going to get what's in then plan so why are you asking for anything else?

For those claiming to have their prayers answered, I'm not calling you liars, but I have no reason to believe they were answered.

And, except for Dave the Atheist, I didn't see anybody answer the real question which was not why do you pray, how does prayer work, but WHY YOU?

Why are you special?

If you combine what I consider prayer as prayer/meditation/establishing an 'intention' then I can answer.

Intentions are 'helped/obtained' by:

1. the importance of the intention to you (how bad do you want it),

2. faith of achieving the intention (new age/affirmation people would use a term similar to getting your vibration level up to that level),

3. how 'open' you are to getting the answer or help to achieve your intention,

4. and finally whether achieving your intention is in your best interest (does it fit into your life plan that you established before being born which of course few of us remember or know).

Therefore, some of my 'intentions/prayers' are answered because I have placed sufficient 'importance' on my intention, have sufficient faith of achieving it, am 'open' to any help or answer I need, and what I asked for does fit into my life plan.

Many times you cannot just ask and get something without 'getting help first' to achieve your desire. If you are not 'open' to that help (promptings, intuition, friends, etc.) then you probably will not get your desire.

Also, my God has never answered my prayers directly. There is a 'spirit guide' system for that purpose.

To bad a kid chained to a bed being abused right now doesn't have strong enough intentions for God to bother. Sorry kid - no spirit guide for you!

That terrible 'experience' probably does fit into his 'life plan'!

Life plan 'experiences' include both good and bad (sometimes very bad stuff like we see in the world today) stuff!

We plan this 'bad stuff' because we are 'eternal beings' and see this 'experience' far different in the 'between life' versus how we view this type of experience here as 'mortals'!

My 'God' is 'tough' but we plan and agree to these things!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2018 11:06AM by spiritist.

Sorry, but any "god" or "spirit guide" who thinks it's fine to chain a kid to a bed as some sort of plan doesn't merit any kind of thanks, worship, or following. When humans justify such things, we still condemn them as disgusting evil beings. No reason to treat supposed "gods" or "spirit guides" any differently. That's disgusting no matter how you try to frame it.

I CANNOT BUY FOR ONE MINUTE that this fits into his life plan. Are you kidding me?

I hate it when people say things happen for a reason. Bullshit.

To all of the comments. Lot's wife was right on this one ---- Oh ye of little faith. (joke).

However, as I mentioned before this is not a God of any 'man made' religion here on Earth so please don't go to a bible, koran, etc. etc. and tell me I am wrong! If you have personal experiences with 'the spiritual' I would be interested in hearing any that conflict with what I am saying.

God or Spirit guides didn't plan that kind of life for this soul (they did permit it though) ------- the individual 'person/soul' as well as all other souls directly involved, did plan and agree to it!!!! They 'agreed' as what they plan affects the 'plans' of other. You can't have an oppressed without an oppressor.

Karma may have had an impact here or just extra zealous soul wanting significant experiences. What if this soul was Joseph Smith, Brigham Young, Hitler, etc. in a past life and did horrible things ----- would that make you feel better about that choice?

Actually, very few 'significant' things are not planned before we come here. However, there are 'spiritual guides and higher' that assist souls in plans and do frequently plan for potential options. If one thing happens go this way, or if something else go another direction. These are in the plan as some 'random/possible' things can happen.

Again, we 'agreed' to our potential/most likely lives, spirit guides help guide us to help us attain what we planned.

As far as whether you don't believe it or can't respect a God, etc., etc. ----- it really doesn't matter a great deal what you or I really believe in mortality it could well be part of the plan you developed and 'chose' for this life. We all made choices that resulted in us being 'scammed' by Mormonism for some reason. Whether you chose to be an atheist or theist in this life or change positions that would be a fairly significant thing as it may change significantly the ways you deal with life and experiences so it would probably be planned. So, I am not saying 'believe me' necessarily if you planned specifically to not believe this stuff or have it affect you in mortality.

I write this for those whose life plan was really to 'be open' to some of this information and change their lives eventually and 'amusement' for those who planned to 'not believe' these kind of things under 'whatever exposure'. Are you amused yet??

However, truth is 'truth' ---- whatever it is. We will all 'remember' what we knew before which includes a lot of truth so we can understand exactly why we planned certain things, why others planned horrible things, etc. in this round of mortality.

There is no reason to argue about these 'opinions based on my experiences' so I will not even try ---- I will try to provide more information that appears you need to know. Please don't take it as 'you must believe me' ---- you don't. I can accept the fact others may not agree with my 'opinions'! I will admit 'other' boards I blog on are far more open but that is based on the purpose of those boards. I fully accept this is a 'recovery from Mormonism' board and recognize we won't be talking about a lot of these type of 'spiritual' issues often. One can leave Mormonism and still be/actually truly be 'spiritual' in a sense.

My 2 cent.

Wow.

I give that a perfect 10 in the Mental Gymnastics competition!

And that gold medal should be encrusted with diamonds as well. This is legendary.

Oh ye of little faith. . .

while reading that.

dagny Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To bad a kid chained to a bed being abused right
> now doesn't have strong enough intentions for God
> to bother. Sorry kid - no spirit guide for you!


I'm wearing my Team Dagny Teeshirt today.
Love YOU !!!

Faith and belief make a difference. But if what you’re asking for is at odds with your “higher self”, it won’t happen.

I went a long time not believing in God, after the rabbit hole. Then I believed but was still angry. Then I thanked God for all of my suffering and all the things that went wrong in my life. Then we were cool.

My husband came up with what I think is a good idea as to why it seems like for some that prayers are never answered. Experiences are different for each individual, and sometimes, answers come little by little; so subtle that you don't even notice it until after you look back and analyze things. Sometimes answers/actions will be immediate. IMO, there is divine intervention, but the key factor is to not give up. An personal example that comes to mind that I'll share is this: Five years ago, we started to be inactive in the LDS church. I had been brainwashed to think that prayers would only be answered if you were faithful and active in TSCC. On a Sunday evening, we were celebrating my husbands' birthday. Had a cake and candles. We told him make a wish! He did and blew out the candles. On Tuesday night, we got a phone call from one of our daughters. She said: "Mpm, don't freak out, but --------- just got hit by a car!" "We (3 of our kids) are at the ER and you need to come. I believe in miracles!" We race to the ER, expecting to see our daughter critically injured or worse. We get to her room which was crowded with doctors and police. There she is, sitting up in bed, laughing and talking with them! She had gotten hit because her, her brother, and sister had stopped to help people who had just gotten in a car accident. It was nighttime. A distracted driver, who wasn't paying attention to what was happening, hit our daughter doing 45 MPH. Our son saw the whole thing happen. The impact spun her and flipped her over and over into the opposite direction lanes of traffic. She landed lying on her back. She was conscious and thought she was going to die from on coming traffic. Our son thought she had been killed outright, as did the spectators. All of a sudden, she sits up, rises up, and runs across the lanes to safety and collapses on the grass. She said she heard a male voice tell her to get up and run, now!! So she did. It turned out, she came out of it with a couple of scratches on her wrists and nothing more. I call it a miracle. Afterwards, when all was calmed down, I asked my husband what he wished for on his birthday. He said he asked the Lord to protect his children! This is just one example of a lot of things that have happened in our family lately, especially since leaving the church.

Nice testimonial to Prayers everyone. Yay prayer.

Why will no one answer the real question asked?

HERE IT IS:

"Why does one particular person get help from their ghawd, while others, maybe even a majority of those who ask, don't get the help they want?"

We know you think prayer is wonderful, but, WHY WERE YOU SO SPECIAL?

I wouldn't worry about it.

Why are some people short? I wouldn't worry a out it.

Why are some people fantastic gamers ? I wouldn't worry about ut.

Why are some people kinesthetic? I wouldn't worry about it.

Why are some people cerebral intellects? I wouldn't worry about it.

Why are some people healing or healers ? I wouldn't worry about ut.

Why are some people nurturing others ? I wouldn't worry about ut.

We need them all. All represent aspects of humanity.

Prayer? Spirit? Psi? Physics? Music? Sports? Foodies? What's it matter? Physicians engineers sculptors all around us. I Wouldnt worry about it. There are more strengths even if they are not mine.

I believe in prayer but I don’t believe god actually directly intervenes in anyone’s life. I think that would violate our free will. I see prayer as a way of forming a relationship with our creator not asking for favors like he’s some magical sky genie. Prayers are answered by us having emotional support through the things we’ve asked for help with. I went a really long time being a diehard atheist and I thought that I had never felt god’s presence or had a prayer answer but looking back now, I see the times that I wasn’t really alone. I never had some big magical thing happen to help me through something, but I had a loving force standing by my side through them. I think that help is extended to people even if they don’t ask, asking just helps. I didn’t believe in god when my daughter was ill for the first three years of her life and almost died multiple times, I didn’t believe in god when I lost two infant children, and I believe that despite me not believing, god still cared about me and stood by me through those times and helped me get through them emotionally and that’s something I see now that I do believe. So I don’t think there are prayers going unanswered, they just may not be getting exactly what they asked for because that’s not really how god works.

But...isn't getting emotional support from god intervening in your life?

My response is that if all prayers are answered, the bulk of them must be answered in the 'hereafter' since they weren't answered during 'life'.

The response that "just because you didn't get what you prayed for doesn't mean your prayer wasn't answered" can easily be considered to be a cop-out. It postulates that one's ghawd is so attentive that he knows what's best for you and that he makes sure you get it, despite your efforts to avoid it. Sort of like Jesus: "Dad, I don't want to do this, but nonetheless, thy will be done..." So whatever happens to you, be happy! It's ghawd's will!!

Now that I've vented yet again. Yep, this is all the stuff I heard at church.

OBVIOUSLY, we just don't get it and they do. They're special. We aren't. Okay.

When I read some of the things that people post about what IS--what THEY KNOW, then I think, "Hell, I hope there isn't an afterlife." When I think in terms of seeing my parents again or seeing my dogs again, then I want an afterlife.

BUT all these ideas of God and such makes me think just like I did with mormonism--if that is what "heaven" is going to be like, count me out.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2018 02:17PM by cl2.

The two children you lost were some kind of object lesson? God helped you get through losing two children? What about them? It was OK with Him to allow your child to be ill, but he stood by you? I understand how traumatic and tragic that must have been but I find it very unsettling.


I'm just not OK with a God who "works that way" I suppose.
People can only view through their own experiences. I get that. Most simply dismiss the horrible things that God ignored as the way God works.
It sucks to be you, child in war-torn Syria!

I don’t think god caused those things to happen. Biology caused those things to happen. I didn’t learn any lesson from those things, and I don’t think that’s the point of them either, but I got through them and I don’t believe I was alone. The bad things that happen on earth are either the result of other people’s actions which god can’t change or control because that violates free will or nature and I don’t believe god violates the laws of nature either. I truly don’t think he works like that. God can no more prevent or stop bad things from happening to us than I can for my own children, as much as I want to, I can only be there to help them through it and I think that’s what god does for us.

I see.

I guess I don't see that a God with limited or unpredictable power is worth crediting for anything.

God gets credit but no blame. That doesn't make sense either.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/21/2018 12:36PM by dagny.

I've replaced prayer with a rabbit's foot. It's less time consuming, easier on the knees and the results are identical to prayer.

Plus the addition of tactile reinforcement!!

I like a Jupiter talisman myself.

Love this response.

Razortooth Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've replaced prayer with a rabbit's foot. It's less time consuming, easier on the knees and the results are identical to prayer.

See "My Lucky Rabbit's Foot" at http://packham.n4m.org/rabbit.htm

Gods omniscience negates the need or even function for prayer.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hf5q6VFn17o

After years of trial and constant error I have sttled on a strict policy of not talking to invisible people. If they exist and have such amazing powers, why are they so elusive? If someone says they communicate with god, I say good for you. Aren't you so special. If god exists, and is really communicating with these folks, he is kind of a dick because he has NEVER communicated with me.

My last prayer:

A few seconds after I realized the Mormon church was false--which was the happiest moment of my life because the hell was over, I looked up to the heavens and I said, " I want to experience everything." I knew my life was about to rotate into full gear and that was my first thought.

I answered my own prayer. Worked out great. Highly recommend it.

Because he has to intervene for civilization to go on from time to time but won't unless people ask. Take for instance summer of 1776
In Philidelphia the American politicians from the North and South couldn't agree on where to begin to
solve America and Great Britains problems. They were fighting and some had walked out of the convention,
the new World was falling apart. This is when Elder Stateman Ben Franklin said to get any where they needed
to start each meeting in prayer and ask for guidance which is what they did and now we have the American
Constitution (better than anything else any king had come up with). And still going strong.

Yes, but that they asked for divine guidance doesn't mean they actually *got* any. It's far more likely that they collectively realized they were better off hanging together than hanging separately...without needing divine guidance.

I had a seminary teacher hit me with “pray as if everything depends on God and work as if everything depends on you.”

Kind of covers your bases, doesn’t it.

How convenient!