So a little while back, after finding out my DW started the divorce process, I decided that I didn't want anything to do with a church that is keen on splitting up families. I do realize my situation isn't the first time this has happened, but it was the first to REALLY hit home. I wasn't planning on removing my name from the records before this, simply because I didn't care enough to/need the closure from it. Then I wanted it.

Then, DW and I met up at a place of her choosing to discuss some of the financial stuff associated with divorcing. I asked her where she wanted to go, she chose a bar-- interesting. We got there and I ordered a beer, had a couple of other drinks throughout the process (by this point she had already told me we were divorcing so I didn't feel obliged to NOT drink because of her).

Anyways, I told her I was considering resigning. She asked me not to. I said I would anyways. She then proceeded to MAKE A DEAL. A shot of tequila for me not resigning. I immediately said sure-- because resigning really wasn't super important to me and it would have been so IRONIC to watch her drink (she's never had a sip in her entire life) after she was essentially divorcing me for it.

So she took a shot of tequila! Later we talked about how she's questioning things now. I even texted her a little about it recently. She said church is hard but she is choosing to keep believing and use "good sources" for help (jabbing at the "anti-sources" that I used-- which is also ironic considering I started seeing my bishop for help with doubts before anything else).

Thoughts on the matter? I have no one to talk to about it and I've really been curious about views on the situation

Mormonism is very transactional in it's doctrine. Binding the Lord with covenants and actions even the sacrament itself.

She just carried on with how she was trained to think.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2018 01:25PM by dogblogger.

It's very hard to know what is going to happen to her. Some people question and come out the other side an ex-mormon and some people do the opposite. Time will tell.

A shot of tequila as a bargain to not resign?!? I guess this is the opposite of "meet cute." Split with pizazz? There's a good scene from a movie in their somewhere.

With the divorce started she is finally free to think. No grasping at straws. No heavy decisions and compromises about saving a marriage to ponder. She can breathe. She can think. But she needs time. She can't compute as fast as you did. Thus, the bargain.

The caring for you did not stop. She doesn't want to see you actually tell the church to EFF off. Because she still clings to it being true. She still thinks you could come to your senses. She still cares even if you aren't going to be a couple anymore. My family still believe my testimony is "only buried" not vanished into thin air.

That is wHAT came to mind for me. Have a great divorce. It's all the fashion now to still be supportive and care.

P.S. I made sure my parents knew I drank and then I never drank in front of them.

Her drinking alcohol is a major step away from the church. I'd say that she's clearly questioning and on her way out.

Do you really want to get divorced? In a few months, she may leave with you.

No I never wanted and still don't want a divorce. She's the one pushing everything forward.

She was curious about what alcohol tasted/felt like. Making a deal with you provided mental/emotional cover for having a nip. She wasn't breaking the WoW, she was taking one for the team to keep your covenants intact.

Silly, but it probably made sense in her mind.

Yeah she took the "lesser of two evils", right?

Your soon to be ex sounds very manipulative and seems to be stringing you along a little. A true TBM would never take a drink of alcohol in a bar to make a deal, especially since she is divorcing you because you want to leave the church. Her mentioning she also has doubts is a little odd, given the reason she is divorcing you is because you no longer believe.

I think it is good you are getting away from her as she is a little bit of a tease. She knows she's lost you and now wants you to desire her by giving you a crumb of hope that she might also leave the church. Maybe she's realizing that it was really idiotic to divorce a nice doctor with earning potential.

Woah-- I never thought she could be that way, but this actually makes a lot of sense, especially considering some of the other things she used to do to pull on my emotions. Who knows, really?

It seems to me that tequila is a strange drink for a devout Mormon to be trying if they've never tasted alcohol. Are you sure she's never had a drink? Because if it were me, I'd be trying something a little less powerful...

However, I must admit that I love tequila.

Her willingness to drink alcohol is surreal! I think your loss of LDS faith, and willingness to leave the marriage, has put her in a state of shock. Her world is in crisis, and she's casting about for a solution. My thoughts:

1) She may be harboring doubts about LDS herself. Sure, she's going to go to pro-LDS sources, but there might be seeds of doubt beginning to sprout. She realizes there are questions that must be answered. Look for opportunities to water and nurture them.

2) She is not comfortable with divorce. I say this partly because she does not want you to resign, an act of finality she does not want to have happen. This means:

3) She harbors the faint hope you might move to her side of the religious issue, which means she still values the marriage. I see your job as:

4) Keep reminding her that you love her and value the marriage, but your spiritual/intellectual integrity must be respected. Hopefully,

5) Her love for you and value of the marriage, along with a reverence for your male leadership (vestigial priesthood concept) may make her question LDS' legitimacy.

I would have advised against drinking in front of her, as it would (so I thought) only antagonize her. That she suggested the bar, and took the tequila, sure surprises me. I think she's testing the waters (pun). Go easy, MB, and look for other issues where she is confused or willing to compromise. I've suggested this numerous times elsewhere: consider a husband-wife Bible study, using a modern translation with good study notes, such as the ESV Study Bible. Start with Luke's gospel. She'll think you're coming to her side, but you know otherwise.

I mean, she moved to utah. Barely talks to me, there's not a whole lotta room to nurture but even if I could, what's the point? To have her leave the church AFTER divorcing me? God wouldn't that feel terrible.

She told me in our last face to face conversation before she split for utah that one day I'd realize she was making the right choice to leave me and that when I realize she was right, I should call her and tell her. A little hollywood if you ask me. I replied that if she figures out it was the wrong choice, not to bother me-- it would break me to know.

Well, that's more information leading one to believe that she's a manipulator. I'd steer clear and let her go.

"Thoughts on the matter? I have no one to talk to about it and I've really been curious about views on the situation"

My thoughts? I doubt this was your wife's first drink. Tequila is rarely a first step. Hell, most seasoned drinkers don't do tequila before a few beers. If she's willing to do that to keep you from resigning, you may be able to leverage a few more legal issues in your divorce. Are you in Utah? Judges, and mediators in Utah, while not supposed to, take church membership in deciding asset division, child support and custody into consideration. Sudden changes and willingness to do things out of character should set off alarms. Tread carefully.

my thought too, first drink a tequila shot? also don't think it was a first drink for her. did she ask for lime and salt too?

I think it could easily be her first drink.

Novices are likely to order something like a tequila shot because they don't know any different and it is ubiquitous in the media as a wild thing to do.

She may have even expected it to taste nasty as that is often how it is portrayed.

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Judges, and mediators in Utah, while not
> supposed to, take church membership in deciding
> asset division, child support and custody into
> consideration.

One (dimly) bright point in all this for MB: She's divorcing him before there are children and MB achieves an MD's earning level. She can take half of their modest property, her religion, regrets and self-deceptions, and go.

Obviously, I wasn't the only one who felt like this!

Early in my life I started gaining a strong testimony of the teachings of the Church. I bear solemn witness that the Cheerios in my Nursery class were true and that they groomed me to be more receptive to the other things that the beloved Correlation program guided me towards believing and making promises to be assimilated for all life and eternity to the holy beloved web of Mormonism :)

I was taught that breaking the Word of Wisdom is a huge no no. But alas I do think that an occasional glass of beer at a tavern called Moesser's is a good thing to do. It helps me feel more like I'm following our beloved first prophet Joseph Smith. It was so wondrous how God chose him to not have to be a farmer or work in middle management in the ministry but that he got a super revelation that he needed to be the CEO here on earth.

https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/paper-summary/history-1838-1856-volume-f-1-1-may-1844-8-august-1844/74

Its so blessed to know that our beloved 1st prophet of this super short and final dispensation went to Moessers on the birthday of our beloved 2nd prophet of this dispensation to have a glass of beer.

https://byustudies.byu.edu/content/volume-6-chapter-20

However some wolf in sheeps clothing that manages web content for BYU appears to have omitted this spirited activity of our beloved prophet.

On the BYU website it says "Saturday, June 1.—At home. Some gentle showers. At one, P.M., I rode out with Dr. Richards and Orrin P. Rockwell. Called on Davis at the boat. Paid Manhard $90. Met George J. Adams, and paid him $50. Then went to John P. Greene's, and paid him and another brother $200. Called at William Clayton's, while Dr. Richards and Orrin P. Rockwell called at the doctor's new house. Returned home at 4:30 P.M."

But it omits his sentence "drank a glass of beer at Moessers" and now the anti-[long] people are going to start saying that the Church is dishonest, people will start having doubts, and then testimonies will be destroyed because we all know that having a "true Church" means that we got to be super honest/transparent about our history :)

She might've enjoyed the tequila more had she ordered a tequila sunrise.

:)

She also sounds manipulative. To have a drink so you don't resign? Yet she's going through with a divorce anyway? WTH?

It sounds like you got the short end of that deal.

The "deal" that she made reeks of manipulation. I don't think she has any intention of leaving the Mormon church. I think she was trying to manipulate you into not throwing her temple sealing into question. One thing I will say, Mightybuffalo, the woman knows you and knows what you will go for. When she is good and ready she will marry a righteous priesthood holder, but until then she wants her current sealing as a backup.

If you want to resign, resign. Don't feel bound by her ridiculous "deal." Just tell her you changed your mind. And if she reminds you of the "deal," just laugh in return. That's about what it's worth.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/24/2018 05:34PM by summer.

but I think they are right.

I'd resign. You've done everything to be true to yourself so far. You need to continue to be.

If you are hoping she'll leave the church and want you back, then you need to continue being true to yourself no matter what her actions are.

Resigning is a lot more cathartic than you might think. I swore I'd never do it and it was one of the best things I've ever done for myself.

about taking a drink of tequila. I wouldn't even have known what different drinks were EXCEPT I would know that tequila was a strong drink.

When I finally took my first drink, I had my nonmo boyfriend (from my 20s and now) give me my first drink as I trusted him to. He gave me brandy. He said he wanted to see how I reacted to it to see if I'd be a lush. I hated it. I said that I'd been drinking NyQuil all my life and this didn't taste much different. Even now, I let him order my drinks, but he knows to order things like sangria or martinis.

My TBM ex wife tried manipulating me AFTER we were divorced...
Wanted me to enforce HER house rules when my high school aged kids were at MY house. TBM women are insane. Yours sounds no different. And I agree with some of the others, I don’t think that was her first drink. Glass of wine, maybe. But shots??? I don’t think so.

It was totally her first drink unless someone accidentally gave her a REAL pina colada on our honeymoon instead of a virgin haha.

She said she would take a drink, I said it should be a shot of tequila. If she was like "alrighty I'll take a shot of tequila if you don't resign," then yeah maybe I'd wonder if she had drank before too.

My bad, I must have missed the part that you suggested a shot.
Makes sense now.
How’d it go down BTW?? Did she like it??

Haha she said at the time she didn't like it.

But I did get laid one last time so I think she did.

Is that weird? Haha sex was definitely one thing that we never struggled with...

Wait a second...the two of you had sex after your meeting in the bar? I think that's what she had planned all along. Definitely a manipulative move on her part. Sounds like she's sitting on the fence with one foot in divorce and the other out of it. She wants to keep you on a leash should she change her mind if she realizes there aren't so many eligible bachelors out there. Not a good sign. If she decides she does not want a divorce and you stay together, how can you trust that she won't divorce you later on when she has more to gain?

I hope birth control was involved. Otherwise, you may find yourself paying child support.

MB, I honestly don't know what to make of that incident.
It's so bizarre...her offering to "sin" to keep you from resigning from the church she's "sinning" against, all the while continuing the divorce proceedings because you "sinned" against the church.

I just don't get it. I hope, at least, the tequila was good...

Hie,

Tell me about it. Bizarre is the right word!

I've been dealing with it all surprisingly well lately, though. Seems I might actually be starting to move on a bit? The board sure helps, hearing everyone's outside perspective.

PS the tequila WAS good. I'm a big tequila fan all of a sudden

IKR? Doesn't she realize she'll always be stained?

10 bucks says she leaves the church eventually. Wants to meet at a bar and drinks a shot of tequila. She is becoming a true rebel haha.

I'll see your bet and raise you $20 that she kicks herself for years to come for divorcing in the first place. She seems like she is caving to family pressure to leave. I don't know the situation but that would be my guess. She's too weak to stand up to TBM friends and relatives and is letting a good thing go.

Idiot.

Leaving the church would just show her what a moron she was because she left her marriage over a stupid religion that was a lie after all.

I'll bet $40 she turns to antidepressants when she realizes all of this.

Odd behavior by soon to be ex wife. I hope it doesn’t set you back too much financially.

Mighty Buffalo, I have been thinking of you... thank you for the update as surprising as it is from your wife's perspective and actions. Please know, as we all do, that I wish you the very, very best in every possible way! :-) You deserve a happy life as the doctor you have always wanted to be, without the additional stress and mental gymnastics of TSCC. Sending you much love, light and the best of success in every aspect of your life!

Thanks cynful! I appreciate the crap out of you

I'm sorry to hear about your wife moving back to Utah. Even though you are correct about the church being a massive fraud, I would not have drunk alcohol and participated in any strange deals at what could have been your last face to face meeting.
Keep it classy, even when you feel horrible. I don't believe in God, but karma has kicked my ass many times.

Touche.

She did choose the bar though. And I only had 3 drinks.

And we still had one more time face to face when she was planning on getting the car and all her things.

But I hear ye chipace. Nice and slightly pessimistic about things as always haha

I dated a guy from Utah whose wife yanked his chain for years. He stayed active a long time after he knew the church wasn't true but stayed for the sake of their two boys. The wife was a huge martyr among her church friends, and she loved it, but he put up with it. She threatened to divorce him many times and then one day she followed through and filed. He saw that the marriage was really messing up the kids so he signed the divorce papers and ended the farce. When she found out he had stopped resisting divorce, signed the papers, and it was a done deal, she freaked. She started back peddling like crazy. She had no more power over him. But it was over and he moved on.

If your wife really doesn't want the divorce she better say it now. If she does want the divorce, why should she care if you resign from Mormonism?? I have to agree that the bar and drink sound suspiciously like a tease or a last effort to hold power over you. The power has shifted to your side. If she decides to hold off on the divorce YOU need to set the conditions and don't make any more bargains. She has X amount of time to hear your debate on the lies of Mormonism, you get to resign even if the divorce is cancelled, and she agrees that you have the right to stop attending church. Without the ability to live authentically, you lose no matter what happens.

Power and control are the last thing you want in a marriage. If she is truly that manipulative it is a good thing you got out early on.

Don't worry Mighty Buffalo. I know it sucks right now. I was there too. You will find the right person for you and she will be all that your ex was and more - a lot more. You would be happier with someone who can think for themselves and not go with the lies they are fed. You are a smart man and you need a smarter woman.

My second wife is WAAAY smarter than me and I love her to pieces. I brag about her all the time. We are such good friends and romantic partners and we do everything together. It's been 13 years since we got married and we still feel like newlyweds.

There is someone out there like that for you too. You are honest and good and in a noble profession that heals people. (at least you will be soon). It is all going to go your way - you'll see.

MB

Have read all the posts in response to your original. My observations are just that- you are and have been closer to the situation. But consider the following:
1. She chose the bar because she’s been there before and recently. Likely in the hunt for the next MB
2. No one and I mean no one orders a shot of Tequilla as their first alcohol with that much specificity or tolerance. She has had a familiarity with taste and preference.
3. She is moving back to SLC. Doubt to apply to law school or develop a career. Her next project is another RM with the following qualifications: not in school or residency for the next eight years, financially independent of parents and likely previously married.
4. You can be certain the IUD is still functional

Furthermore, resign. In doing so when she latches again on to the celestial train, you won’t be called or contacted about cancelling your sealing so she can have another go at it. You are divorcing her,her world, her family, her religion.

Gatorman

Go ahead and resign. If your wife makes a fuss, tell her that you are merely "removed from the rolls" or whatever the stupid Mormon resignation-confirmation letter says.

The Mormon cult messes around with words and definitions, so you can do the same.

Your drinking may just be an excuse which she just about proved by taking a drink herself. I think there is another man in the picture. Mormon wives love to put the blame on husbands that start "straying" from the Church. Many times its an excuse to get out of the marriage and into the arms of another man.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2018 10:20AM by logan.

I agree with you and Gatorman. She's got a plan and MB is getting bounced around for the ride. An wise older woman (35 at the time) once told me that married women rarely leave unless they are being abused or have found another man. Especially with kids still at home. I don't see MB abusing her.

StillAnon Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> wise older woman (35 at the time) once told me
> that married women rarely leave unless they are
> being abused or have found another man.

I don't think men would be much different do you?

Actually, yeah. I've known a few guys that just didn't like being married to their wives. Dating was great but marriage got controlling. Not painting with a broad brush, but I think it's still true that most guys that marry want their wives to stay the same, (not realistic) but a lot of wives look at their husbands as a constant fix it upper project. That can get old. They left. No chick on the side, no abuse, just didn't want to be married.

"Not painting with a broad brush"

Actually, you are.

The meeting at the bar for a supposed TBM is very unusual I have to admit.

I think you are going to be much happier when that conniving, manipulative woman isn't in your life any longer.

I’d hate For you to run the risk of a pregnancy with someone who is that flippant with your feelings.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2018 04:46PM by kathleen.

I didn't read the whole thread, but when I started questioning the church I began with the book Rough Stone Rolling. I figured no one could tell me I studied the wrong source since it's by an LDS historian! After that the rabbit hole dropped out from under me. Find her church sanctioned sources like the online essays to get that stone rolling right out of the church ;)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/25/2018 03:09PM by dinosaurprincess.

Threatening divorce a common manipulation tactic. Doubt she wants to, but she's hoping to scare you into compliance. Which is why so many want to get married - to have more power and control. For this to work, you have to fear divorce.

When my wife threatened me with divorce, I showed her the front door, then she backed down.

She probably still "loves" you. Love in most cases doesn't mean wanting you to be happy. It means she wants what you have to offer. She got status from you at church, but that is nearly gone. She is trying to preserve as much as possible. If you were a total apostate, she would feel more shame at church.

With you becoming an MD, she would get status and money, which makes her regret this somewhat.

When you become an MD, good luck finding true "love". Will be interesting to see how your next wife acts when you quit being an MD and decide you would rather be a janitor.

Marriage is a scam. Consider MGTOW.

BTW, TBMs often claim we exmos leave because we want to sin. By pursuing disgusting alcohol to prove your un-Mormon-ness, you have provided them evidence to that effect.

I assume you will also need to do coffee, tattoos, tobacco, promiscuous sex, marijuana, vulgar language, etc, etc, to prove you are a good exmo. From one cult to another.

^^^^^This^^^^^

Probably "dead balls accurate".

Wow Free Man, completely agree, but am curious as to what gives you Joy in life?

chipace Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow Free Man, completely agree, but am curious as
> to what gives you Joy in life?


coffee, tattoos, tobacco, promiscuous sex, marijuana, vulgar language, etc, etc,

Don't listen to "Free Man". You should plan to go get married every 10 years as you cycle from one wife to the next. Every step of the way I'll be there for your future wives to help them do a division of your assets (half for me, half for her), hit you up with child support & alimony ad nausea, and use the courts to destroy your relationship with any children you have so that your future wives can have them all to themselves. We have great plans ahead MightyBuffalo for you.

LOL! Zenos The Lawyer's paradox.