Hello all.

I've only posted here a few times before. For some reason, I do better with my recovery by not actively thinking about my painful Mormon past. Every once in a while I pop in to briefly look at the Recovery Board when I feel especially misunderstood, as a way to be among people who have experienced the trauma of being raised in a TBM Mormon family.

My last post: https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2123008

So I had a huge shock on Saturday morning. I received a text message from my father and he did not have my number.

The last time I spoke to my parents was in 2011 and 2016 via handwritten letters that I sent. 2011 letter was to announce that I wanted no further contact. 2016 was to tell them they were out of line for trying to pressure the one sibling I speak to to divulge and secretly liaise. When my brother altered me, I immediately wrote my parents and told them to stop any future efforts to contact me, and that if they attempted it again I would file a restraining order.

My parents deeply harmed me psychologically. Their rejection of me for being gay was thoroughly brutal and there is no metric for the damage done. That was in February 2001 when I was 21 years old. I lost my entire world and was homeless with no money and chronic PTSD. My mental illness has ebbed and flowed corresponding to subsequent traumatic events common to traumatised people and though I have had some periods in my life where I felt totally in control, happy and hopeful, I am not in a good way presently because of things I went through in the last two years.

I needed to keep my parents out of my life because they've already done a lifetime's damage; I need to have as much freedom from the memories and anger as possible. Cutting them out of my life was one of the bravest and absolute best decisions I've ever made.

Imagine my surprise receive a bizarre and cryptic text from my father: "sorry to shock you...I'll be leaving tonight..I won't make any more efforts to find you..I know this is invasive, I'm sorry. I need to tell you things. I left a letter in your post office box. I contacted a private investigator to find you. You don't have to respond. I'll stop trying. I don't mean to cause you more pain. Thank you for being my son.. I will always love you"

This arrived in the morning. Shock, anger, curiosity, bewilderment, confusion. The message didn't explain if he had travelled to my little town or?

I told my brother and he investigated and found out that indeed my dad was here, at my little rural post office waiting for me. WTF. 5 hours later I went to the post office hoping he'd be gone. I did not even want to read this letter but friends I trust told me it'd be better to just get it over with.

The letter was an even bigger shock than the text. He attempted to apologise for rejecting me for being gay. It seemed actually sincere. The letter said he his flight back home was just a few hours later that evening. I felt ambushed; here he was begging to meet me out of years of no contact. I was supposed to make such a big decision that would have left me feeling very unsafe (he and my mother are the genesis and locus of all my trauma, there is a history of emotional abuse with my mother too).

I should be happy, but I'm not. It made me angry. It made me feel like I had been painted into the corner of being the heartless guy for being forced to make a decision.

I should be happy he accepts me on some level, but the thing is I let the love die years ago; I had to, and it was one of the healthiest things I've ever done.

I'm actually a person who rarely complains or talks openly about my victimhood (it's too personal, I don't want to be re victimised by being unfairly judged by others and ultimately I care more about focusing on the present and the future rather than dwelling on the past). However, the damage he and my mother did to me is incalculable. I cannot hold all my anger at once. They destroyed most of my promise and opportunity just when I was starting out life. Huge damage to my health. I was raised somewhere between upper middle class and middle class in an affluent suburb but my entire adult life I've barely made a wage above poverty level, despite a high work ethic and being a very bright kid.

I was suicidal most of my 20s and would not be alive today had I not been lucky to meet a very unselfish, special partner.

I realise that giving me advice is probably impossible, but I welcome any feedback or ideas. The biggest question I have is how on earth are they super TBM and somehow now accepting my being gay? My cynical mind is certain there must have been a PR shift in the church in the recent past, a directive perhaps that would open a window enough for parents to be allowed to tell their gay kids that they can openly accept them?

They sacrificed me for their TBM status. I was homeless and effectively cast in the gutter. I was treated with disgust and suspicion, alternated with occasional conditional respect, or I was being lied to and manipulated (attempted). I have always been a mark and a fix-it project since coming out; I cannot believe that this would have changed.

My parents are very orthodox Mormons and that status means more to them than their own son. So why, how is any of this surreal new development believable?

I answered the text before his flight "I received your letter. This is not a good time, but if I am ready to talk I'll let you know".

I have many questions, but before any diplomatic contact can resume I have a very very long list of concerns, grievances and boundaries that must be addressed. Even then, I can't imagine trusting anything they say.

Ugh. On one hand I know I should be glad, and 8 years ago this letter would have been extremely welcome, but I grew and changed and healed a lot. I saw things for what they are and it empowered me to get more from life and to give myself more peace and better tools for navigating the world. I see my parents for who they are. I see the good in them, and I have tried to keep it an enhance it in myself, but I also cannot deny that they are the cause of most of my intense suffering and trauma.

Their apparent accepting me is sadly not worth much to me, because I stopped trusting and loving them nearly a decade ago. I can't picture them ever getting past my list of grievances or me being able to trust them and yet I feel that if I don't make some effort, it will be wasting an opportunity. I don't have the time or energy to deal with this and won't for a while, but it's been forced on me. I live in a very rural place and thankfully he did not find my "street" address (dirt road). If he had shown up I'd be in a much worse place.

I'm so sorry for all that you have gone through. This is all so horribly wrong and deeply sad.

I know what it is like to be rejected by my TBM parents too. When I divorced my TBM wife MY parents paid for her attorney and wrote letters to the court telling them that I should not have contact with my children.

In that moment I knew I was dead to them. I was very angry at them and I never talked to my father again, and then he died 10 years later.

Cults suck.

I wish I had some great advice to give but all I can say is that it is truly not you - its them.

praydude, That is totally brutal. I'm so sorry you went through that. I really feel for you and I appreciate your sympathy.

Cults really do suck. People who've never been touched by a cult have no idea. What your parents did to you is unforgivable.

I think if I were ever to re-establish contact, I would tell my parents that forgiveness is not on the table. This may be a non-starter, but some forms of betrayal are just irreversible. I think if they really wanted to accept responsibility and establish some form of relationship, they can't reasonably expect forgiveness.

How did you deal with your feelings about your father at the time of his death? Mortality really feels like the elephant in the room right now for me.

I know it is the "pat answer" but I found the "stages of loss" to be helpful. At first when I heard of my father's death I was in denial. I bargained with myself and dismissed my father's death because he betrayed me for a cult. I told myself that he wasn't worth the effort of even feeling bad for. Let alone feeling ANYTHING for. That seemed to work at first but then I started feeling angry. The anger built up. It seemed reasonable at first - of course I would be angry this is only natural at hearing that my father is dead...that sort of thing. BUT my manipulative ex-wife came into focus in my mind and I realized that I wasn't really angry at my father but I was angry at her for using the cult to tear us apart! I wanted to drive-down-there-and-end-her-life-angry. (For those worried about the tone of this I obviously didn't do that. I don't want her blood on my hands because she is not worth it.) My TBM ex figured out how to divide me from my family and all of that is on them. They allowed themselves to be manipulated by a sociopath. I warned them but they didn't listen to me because I am an ex-mormon. I had to go out and run. My second wife (and true love in the best possible way) could see that I was in pain and she ran with me. I had so much energy I could run forever. I ran much further than I thought I ever could and that helped me get through the anger. Just getting my heart pumping and getting out there in nature really helped me. Having a person in my life that I believe loves me unconditionally is a huge help. I hope that you have that too. Someone who loves you for all that you are.

In the end that is what saved me. The unconditional love from someone who really cares about me is what helped me process my father's betrayal and death. I'm crying right now just remembering that time and how harrowing it was. Having a loving person in my life brought me back and helped me heal.

So ExAmmon, if you have a love in your life hold on tight. Our families can be chosen and not just ascribed. I love the quote from "Home for the Holidays" where Robert Downey Jr's character asked about his "Logical family" rather than his biological family. If you haven't seen this movie you should.

In the end, my mother and father's life savings was drained by my TBM sister (who lives in Murray UT). It wasn't a lot of money but now my mom (who is still TBM) moved away from my sister and is living on her own in a retirement home near me. I'm sort of taking care of her. It is weird because she is awkward and still calls black people "Negroes". She has no idea how offensive she is. My TBM older brother isn't in the picture. Apparently keeping an eye on my elderly mom is up to me...the one she betrayed. She apologized for her behavior NOW that she needs my help but it feels thin.

Life is complicated. I want to get my mom out of the cult but she is 78, She has been in it since she was 19. I think it may be too big a leap for her to take.

I wish you the best and I hope that you have a soft place to fall. Hopefully in the arms of someone who loves you for who you are.

I can relate. I cut my (non-mormon) father out of my life in the early 1980s and refused to respond to any type of attempted contact. Even a letter from him would trigger PTSD-like symptoms. He eventually got the hint and slunk off.

Then one afternoon (maybe 10-12 years ago) I received a phone call from a private investigator claiming my father had hired him to find me. (Total BS, my father already knew my address, this was just his chickens**t way of trying to get around my wall of silence.) My answer was to read this PI the riot act, emphasizing that if I wanted a relationship with that bastard, that I goddamn well knew how to start it up. Having failed in his errand boy mission, the PI decided to cut his losses.

My father died last year, never having seen or heard from me for the last 35 years of his life. It was a great day when I heard the news, and it hasn't caused me one iota of regret for never reconciling. Some things are broken beyond repair.

Your parents, especially your father, are barely better than cockroaches. You owe them nothing. If they don't have the relationship with you that they want, it's their fault.

Sadly, horrible people can be parents. I never understood why people say we should reconcile with someone awful just because they donated sperm or an egg in an enjoyable act.

I'm don't have real advice, just what I think.

It could be that they do realize that rejecting you was a horrible thing to do and want you to be part of the family again.

On the other hand, Mormons are never above manipulating. It could be that they're trying to get you back under Mormon rules and "fix" who you are. To damage you again.

It could just be paranoia talking, but the use of a private investigator to find you after you demanded no contact just stinks.

All I can say is-- keeping some distance would be a smart idea. You don't know why they're contacting you for sure.

I too am so sorry to hear all you have been through. It is unthinkable.

The rule of thumb I use for people in my life and whether they stay or go, is "Are they toxic to this relationship, or are they contributing to both of us in the relationship?"

I find it helps. Identifying the 'toxic' and labelling them so is tough, but for my own mental health I have learned to do it.

I hope this helps, but if not, I hope the fact that I add my support to all the others here on the board will.

I send only best your way!!!

Cults do that. My ex disowned her son when he came out. Just kicked him out, and they were so close. Only child, single mom. That’s what the cult does to your mind. Mormonism replaces the love for your child with something else. The church is for Christ in their words but anti-Christ in their actions. The leaders become more anti-Christ by the year. A lot of people are waking up to that. Maybe your parents did too. It’s possible that they’re no longer out of their minds.

Find out if they think the church has serious problems. If so, talk. If not, you’re a project.

I would like to know what was in the letter from your father--the content, the wording.

I came from a family where it was not bad enough to leaver but not good enough to stay. I have always maintained a relationship and most of the time I don't know why, because, I know at the end of the day the Mormon church is loved by them more than I am. If the prophet told them to cut me off they would. It would hurt them but they would do it.

My father wrote me a letter desperately trying to make me see "my evil ways for being gay and having allowed satan to control me." At one point he said that he was so glad my grandmother passed away before she knew about me. I have never been so searingly hurt in my life.

Still they always told me they loved me and we mostly on a relationship that, like Mormonism itself, was a beautiful front with who-knows-what god-awful crap was behind it.

This is deep for you whether you want it to be or not. If you are able to resume no contact and forget about it then that is good.

Your father may actually feel remorse, but if he is still part of the gay hating Mormon church then it doesn't mean much. He is just trying to relieve his own guilt.

Your father may actually have changed. If you want to know, you could send written correspondence. Do not make physical contact. It is way too soon. The written correspondence should come with the caveat that he is to stop communication at any point you choose. He must agree to this completely. This would give you a feeling of control over the situation that you never had before.
Any further contact must be with you feeling that you are in the driver's seat which you are at this point. All the power its yours. Know that.

You could send a letter telling him exactly how you feel but that you want no response whatsoever for a full year.

I am old now and went through the wringer from that church. Friends committing suicide. Friend going though shock therapy at BYU. Gay bashing in Provo. You name it. Like you I moved and left it all behind. But----and this is important---I though I left it behind but what I had done was bury it all. It was still eating at me deep inside. Like you I never ever talked about it with anyone for decades.

I only excavated it when I finally found RFM and realized I hadn't really processed anything at all. There are some wonderful people here.

It's been a lot of years. If you feel like taking a look at where you have been this is a good place to get your feet on the ground and let the hurt all the way out.

So glad to hear you have a great partner. Keep going and all the best to you.

"...if he is still part of the gay hating Mormon church then it doesn't mean much."

My thought exactly. I have family members that say they love me and accept me while still giving money to the Mormon church. Love does not work that way. It would be like me saying I love my mom while giving money to an anti-woman rights group.

Momonism : the great destroyer of families !

I just want to tell you that my heart breaks for you and so many like you like Done & Done. I cannot imagine doing this to a child of mine EVER.

Considering my gay ex lives in this house with me might tell you something. The biggest reason I married him is because they told me he was damned. When they said that, I couldn't ever let him go. I had to make sure that no matter what else happened, that he was okay. That he wasn't alone. He just left for work.

This situation with mormons and gays is reprehensible. Listen to Done & Done. He's very wise and he knows what he is talking about.

Just wanted to reply that you seem strong in the face of the irreconcilable. Good for you.

I often wonder what it would be like if my parents cared enough to try with me. They don't. I'll never be tracked down by them or a PI.

Mormonism: the great myth maker of families.

I believe that fake families like mine seem as bad as the families I've read in this thread. The elephant in the room for my fake family is the pathetic myth they try to maintain without any effort.

No one cares. We had dysfunctional and disconnected parents who doled out their love based upon who kissed their asses more or achieved more in society for their glory. My mother only truly loves her youngest who she thinks appeared to her before she was conceived asking my mother to conceive her.

I think some of my siblings are not that bad but they are good Mormons and I just don't like hanging out with good Mormons. I like the bad ones better.

Trust is earned and NOTHING they have done in your life screams trust me.

If you decided to speak to them (not sure I would) it must be very controlled. Not face to face, you need the option to say done and be out of the situation in an instant.

You have every reason to be suspicious of your fathers attempt to restart your relationship.
TSCC has recently reviewed its position on gays, "accepting " them as long as they aren't engaging in any physical activity.
As a gay person, I find that absolutely offensive and disgusting, it means nothing about really accepting us as we are.
You have answered a lot of your questions yourself already, and I guess need further strength from like minded people.
For a long time now it seems you have forged your own life the way you want and need it, and have been most fortunate to find an understanding partner.
I can see no benefit, only heart break from revisiting the past, and also think it would be dangerous to engage the enemy on any basis at all. His text and letter being the thin end of the wedge.
You don't need him to validate you or your lifestyle, and I would think him most unlikely to acquiesce to any of your needs.
I've never been a Mormon, but having followed rfm for about a year, I could never trust a tbm's ulterior motives, in your case, to get you back into the fold.

I also grew up gay in a Mormon family. But my story is different because my parents, especially my father, valued family and their children above the church. My father had a lot of important positions in the church - bishop, stake presidency, stake patriarch, sealer in the temple. I was afraid to come out to him. When I did the only thing he said was, "Have you been excommunicated?" I told him no, but that after he and Mom died I was going to resign from the church. He said, "Why wait, if you don't feel comfortable with the church go ahead and resign." So I did. I never once doubted my Dad's love for me, even after coming out. And he accepted my partner/husband as another son and member of the family.

I tell you all of this just so you know that some Mormons are able to love and accept their gay children. I don't know if your father's attempt to contact you means he's had a change of heart toward you, or if this is some sort of manipulative trick. But it's a possibility.

It's entirely up to you whether or not you'd like to pursue this. And there are no wrong answers.

I was sexually assaulted by my Mormon cousin when I was 7 or 8 years old. This experience was like a bomb going off in my life and affected me for years to come. I went through a very severe depression in my twenties and attempted suicide several times. I had PTSD symptoms for years after, and still do to some extent. But to my surprise I've started to realize in the last couple of years that I think I might have forgiven him for what he did to me. That does NOT mean that I said everything was ok and could we be friends. Not even close! But I think I've gotten to the point where I can understand (but never excuse) what he was going through that caused him to abuse. I'm ready to let things go and not let him and the experience have such a big influence in my life.

I see him occasionally. His mother and my Mom are best friends. But I ignore him. I don't look at him and I don't talk to him. I only see that family when my Mom is in town visiting her sister. I go to family events to support my Mom. So for me, forgiveness doesn't mean everything is ok and we're now best buddies - far from it! But I've gotten to the point where one of the defining moments of my life is in the past and I'm content to leave it there.

You're going to have to decide what's in your best interest when dealing (or not) with your father. There are no wrong answers here. Maybe the best thing for you is to never have contact with your parents again. Or maybe your father has changed regarding you. Whatever you decide, go at your own speed. There is no time frame whatsoever in making your decision. If you decide to talk to your father you are under no obligation to excuse what he did to you. You don't have to reestablish a relationship if you don't want to. You don't have to talk to him at all.

I'm very glad to hear you have a supportive partner. Talk things over with your partner. Trust the advice of the person who loves you most. Perhaps your father sincerely regrets what he did to you and considers it one of his biggest mistakes. But that's completely irrelevant. Whatever you decide to do, make sure it's the best decision for YOU!

I am so sorry for what you have gone through. I am gay and so much of your story rings true with me.

A couple of things. You do not owe your parents ANYTHING! Only contact them if having them in your life would be beneficial to you. It sounds like your father is just trying to save face for his own selfish purposes. Make him put in more effort than that.

Again, please only respond if you think it would make your life better. If not, ignore and move on. He does not deserve you in his life.

The Mormon church is truly a heaping pile of shit that should be eradicated. It tears families apart and causes so much pain.

Hugs my friend.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/26/2018 12:41PM by Atari.

Without knowing what the letter contained it is hard to guess at his motive.

Does he truly want to reconcile and seek forgiveness for the years of pain he has caused?

Or does he have a life ending disease and all he really wants to do is selfishly ease his own conscience before Hieing of to Kolob?

It is hard to know if this is about genuine connection or another self serving scheme.

Maybe just ask him directly what he wants?
What is his motivation?

But then he would need to get in touch with him which he is not sure he wants to do.

It's such a 2 edge sword.

I would ask him what he means by "accepts."

I didn't talk to my mother (father was deceased, praise god) for some 20 years and then she died. (I did see her at one family funeral). I don't regret it a bit.

My advise would be go slow, there's no rush.

I don't recall LDS saying to reach out to gay children. It's been pretty much the opposite. So I'm guessing your dad is sincere. Some things are more important than god, the devil or a church.

"The Tentacles of Divine Providence"
https://www.lds.org/ensign/2014/03/faithful-parents-and-wayward-children-sustaining-hope-while-overcoming-misunderstanding?lang=eng

They are monstrous in their "hopes." I could see it as something not so sincere.

I'm going to quote something that you said in your previous post.

"My parents also did not respect boundaries. I had to answer any question no matter how personal, no private space or private thoughts. Every hour of the week was accounted for in some way, letters were read before being sent, and the same happened on my mission."

This just isn't normal. It isn't even close to normal. And I think this sort of behavior goes way beyond Mormon cult control. Normally I like to allow people the room to grow and change, but IMO your parents seem so damaged to me that I'm not sure your relationship is repairable.

I am going to have to agree with summer. This is off the hook strange.

If they are becoming less homophobic, that’s nice. They can develop friendships with gay people that they haven’t psychologically abused and physically abandoned. I don’t think you have to be their guinea pig while they learn to behave like decent human beings, if that’s even their goal.

I definitely agree with this.

We went through periods of time, maybe a year or so, when were weren't talking, and then we'd try being in contact, and things would end up being worse than before.

In 2012, I told my parents, who are divorced, that I was out and to leave me alone. My father respected my wishes. My mother didn't at. all. When I didn't reply to her, she gave my adult kid the third degree. I had moved across the damn country to be away from her. SMH

I haven't intentionally spoken to her more than a handful of times since 2012. I have butt dialed her, though. Friggin Siri.

In the interim, I have healed so much. She isn't able to heap more abuse on me. She isn't able to feed that damaged part of me that she cultivated. I feel peace sometimes. I didn't even know what the heck I was feeling. I was like, "Oh. I think this might be feeling peaceful and at ease." That's not to say that crap things weren't happening in my life at that time, but I didn't have to worry about my mother's opprobrium, too. I was just chill without herbal assistance.

I think your father violated your wishes, privacy, and boundaries. I think your text response was a good one.

Some people don't deserve to be forgiven. Some people are triggers. We all have to live with our decisions, and I am A-Okay with my decision to cut my mother out of my life. My father and I have reconciled. That was weird, but it might have something to do with him not bugging the shit out of me.

You have to try to do the impossible: an emotional cost-benefit analysis. If you don't need him to "accept" you (Please! How about love and support you?), if you're cool with things as they are, if there is a decent chance that connecting with him will make your life worse, block his number.

Your father respected your boundaries; he respected you. That's a good thing, the foundation on which to build, or rebuild, a relationship.

I feel that through reading these stories and reflecting on my own experience with my TBM parents the overriding factor in all of this is the parent's deciding to remain in the cult.

If they remain in the cult their horrible behavior is justified in the eyes of god and consequently there is no growth there. If they continue to summarily dismiss your side of the story and ignore their own horrible actions because it is what the cult wanted, then there is no ownership, no remorse, and no relationship there.

My mom is like that. She can't grow because she doesn't see that she did anything wrong. She transfers the responsibility of her horrible actions onto other people - like my dead father. He is an easy scapegoat because he can't defend himself.

So now my TBM mom can't figure out why our relationship is stilted and awkward. She doesn't understand why she isn't liked by any of her 3 daughter-in-laws. Not sure how to proceed either because she is 78 and me expecting her to change is probably unrealistic.

I am deeply appreciative for all of your moving stories, feedback, empathy and advice. I feel very alone in my dilemma and your support is a huge comfort and help.

I intended to respond to each comment but I find that I'm feeling totally overwhelmed with emotions to engage. My survival instinct is to run away from anything that has to do with this because I cannot afford to spend any more energy on my parents. It's making me too angry that they have come in uninvited into my life taking up space I cannot afford or put up with.

Thank you so much to all of you for having my back. It doesn't matter if they "accept" anything; they are my abusers and are not to be trusted.

Sending you all a big hug.

Sounds like you have made your decision and the right one.

It really puts a lump in my throat all you have been through.

Big hug.

Please don't feel that you need to respond to every single individual. This board is meant to be a help, not a burden. We do love when you check back in, however (as you just did.) :)

Good luck to you. I hope that you feel free to post whenever you need or want support.

There was virtually no mention of "the church" and no one asked us to go with them to any meetings. They all know where we stand but still.

However, what is most chilling to me about this is we know this "change" has occurred because the church has purposely implemented it.

I just can't decide if the church is motivated more by a desire to be less offensive to outsiders (thereby pulling in more converts) or a need to protect their members from engaging with those who could point out the church's errors and lead the "faithful away". We all know that both of these reasons are certainly of prime concern to the Mormon church.

The tack we've taken in our family is that when in doubt about Mormons' motivation for "bearing gifts"...always err on the side of caution.