Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Combined Relief Society and Priesthood meeting today. We discussed the "2019 the Idaho and North America Central Plan."
The vision statement:
"With faith in Jesus Christ, we joyfully walk the coveant path that leads to eternal life, inviting all God's children."
My reaction is as follows:
1. I thought over the past 50 years that I have had in the Church we did a pretty good job having faith in Christ. But the take away today was we are lacking.
2. We are to do it joyfully. Back in the late 50s to early 70's I thought Church was a joy to go to. Who took the joy away? THE CHURCH.
3. I am hearing more and more about the coveant path. Okay before someone is baptised how well do they explain the baptism coveant these days and how committed are the people before they are baptised? How about ordination to the Priesthood? How about the temple? So if people are having trouble keeping the coveants maybe it is because they did not understand them. And if they did they probably would not join? Again where is the problem, not the people, THE CHURCH.
4. Inviting Gods children is a new term for missionary work.
Then we discussed the four areas or goals of the plan.
1. Missionary Work
2. Temple work
3. Ministering
4. Keeping the Sabbath Day holy.
So from my notes. Everyone is to be a missionary. Where have we heard this before? We are to each minister on a one on basis with people we come in contact with. We are to keep the Sabbath Day holy at Church and in our homes. And we are to find family names and do the temple work for them.
We were told to go home and pray and get a testimony of this plan. Ask the Lord what areas you need to work on and what areas will help you to grow.
So what is missing? A lot.
Based on the dynamics and watching the group discuss today, its a complete failure before it gets off the ground. There is nothing in it about personal development, personal growth, learning and understand the mysteries of the kingdom, etc. Its a corporate plan using a concept used in corporations to increase their bottom line. It's not about the individual.
Anyone else have a lesson like this today?
We were given nice litte cards to put in our wallets to remind us of the plan.
The vision statement:
"With faith in Jesus Christ, we joyfully walk the coveant path that leads to eternal life, inviting all God's children."
My reaction is as follows:
1. I thought over the past 50 years that I have had in the Church we did a pretty good job having faith in Christ. But the take away today was we are lacking.
2. We are to do it joyfully. Back in the late 50s to early 70's I thought Church was a joy to go to. Who took the joy away? THE CHURCH.
3. I am hearing more and more about the coveant path. Okay before someone is baptised how well do they explain the baptism coveant these days and how committed are the people before they are baptised? How about ordination to the Priesthood? How about the temple? So if people are having trouble keeping the coveants maybe it is because they did not understand them. And if they did they probably would not join? Again where is the problem, not the people, THE CHURCH.
4. Inviting Gods children is a new term for missionary work.
Then we discussed the four areas or goals of the plan.
1. Missionary Work
2. Temple work
3. Ministering
4. Keeping the Sabbath Day holy.
So from my notes. Everyone is to be a missionary. Where have we heard this before? We are to each minister on a one on basis with people we come in contact with. We are to keep the Sabbath Day holy at Church and in our homes. And we are to find family names and do the temple work for them.
We were told to go home and pray and get a testimony of this plan. Ask the Lord what areas you need to work on and what areas will help you to grow.
So what is missing? A lot.
Based on the dynamics and watching the group discuss today, its a complete failure before it gets off the ground. There is nothing in it about personal development, personal growth, learning and understand the mysteries of the kingdom, etc. Its a corporate plan using a concept used in corporations to increase their bottom line. It's not about the individual.
Anyone else have a lesson like this today?
We were given nice litte cards to put in our wallets to remind us of the plan.
Bone-chilling.
Where is "Love" in all this? Where is helping those in need? Where is prayer?
Do you notice a distinct absence of any kind of instruction, like studying the scriptures, or learning about the life of Christ, etc.
There's an absence of prayer, or direct communication with God, for guidance, inspiration, comfort. No direct relationship between the member and Christ/God.
You are absolutely right! It's a corporation, complete with a business plan, and a business card, for your wallet.
Where is "Love" in all this? Where is helping those in need? Where is prayer?
Do you notice a distinct absence of any kind of instruction, like studying the scriptures, or learning about the life of Christ, etc.
There's an absence of prayer, or direct communication with God, for guidance, inspiration, comfort. No direct relationship between the member and Christ/God.
You are absolutely right! It's a corporation, complete with a business plan, and a business card, for your wallet.
>>>Then we discussed the four areas or goals of the plan.
1. Missionary Work
2. Temple work
3. Ministering
4. Keeping the Sabbath Day holy.<<<<
Hasn't this been "the plan" for about...I don't know...at least the past 150 years or more?!
It sounds like they're so low on inspiration that they're just desperately re-packaging the same moldy bread that they've been selling all along.
In the spirit of repackaging the old and obvious and selling it as new inspiration, I offer this hypothetical future General Conference keynote sermon:
In a hushed, sacred tone, the Prophet begins to speak...
"Oh, brothers and sisters, you are gathered together here today to participate in the revealing of gods great plan for the future days ahead in Zion. The Lord is mindful of the confusion of our times and of the challenges that seem to increase with each passing year. The Lord has therefore revealed to the leaders of the Church certain things that we must now emphasize in our lives...things that we may otherwise overlook, if not for the wise counsel of the Lord's anointed representatives on Earth in these latter days.
"We are asked to especially keep in mind the importance of four things in particular:
"1. The importance of the brushing of the teeth more than once a week. The Lord reminds us that at least twice a day is necessary to maintain good oral hygiene.
"2. The importance of the looking both ways before crossing the busy highway. We have lost too many of our beloved brothers and sisters who have failed to heed this wise counsel. The Lord wants us to be more mindful than ever of this sacred principle.
"3. The importance of the changing of the underwear. Some among us, especially among our youth, have fallen prey to the siren song of degenerate role models put forth by the adversary and promoted in popular entertainment and moving pictures and such. These degenerate pied pipers of putrefaction have convinced many of our vulnerable youth that refusing to change underwear for months at a time is a sign of cool rebellion, a way of saving the planet and otherwise a means of standing out and apart from others in a distinktly odiferous and malodorous manner. Brothers and sisters, these are deceptions aimed at undermining the potential of our youth.
"4. The importance of not copulating with farm animals. It has been impressed upon the brethren that it has been too long since the leadership has stressed to the membership the importance of this sacred prohibition and, due to the absence for many years of any express references to this prohibition in General Conference or in other messages, such as messages from the First Presidency, it has come to our attention that increasingly large numbers of members have begun thinking "perhaps this is okay then" and some have even taken it upon themselves to organize social clubs oriented toward promoting this behavior as though it's association with farming and wholesome rural lifestyles would also render this debased and despicable activity wholesome. Nothing could be further from the truth, brothers and sisters.
1. Missionary Work
2. Temple work
3. Ministering
4. Keeping the Sabbath Day holy.<<<<
Hasn't this been "the plan" for about...I don't know...at least the past 150 years or more?!
It sounds like they're so low on inspiration that they're just desperately re-packaging the same moldy bread that they've been selling all along.
In the spirit of repackaging the old and obvious and selling it as new inspiration, I offer this hypothetical future General Conference keynote sermon:
In a hushed, sacred tone, the Prophet begins to speak...
"Oh, brothers and sisters, you are gathered together here today to participate in the revealing of gods great plan for the future days ahead in Zion. The Lord is mindful of the confusion of our times and of the challenges that seem to increase with each passing year. The Lord has therefore revealed to the leaders of the Church certain things that we must now emphasize in our lives...things that we may otherwise overlook, if not for the wise counsel of the Lord's anointed representatives on Earth in these latter days.
"We are asked to especially keep in mind the importance of four things in particular:
"1. The importance of the brushing of the teeth more than once a week. The Lord reminds us that at least twice a day is necessary to maintain good oral hygiene.
"2. The importance of the looking both ways before crossing the busy highway. We have lost too many of our beloved brothers and sisters who have failed to heed this wise counsel. The Lord wants us to be more mindful than ever of this sacred principle.
"3. The importance of the changing of the underwear. Some among us, especially among our youth, have fallen prey to the siren song of degenerate role models put forth by the adversary and promoted in popular entertainment and moving pictures and such. These degenerate pied pipers of putrefaction have convinced many of our vulnerable youth that refusing to change underwear for months at a time is a sign of cool rebellion, a way of saving the planet and otherwise a means of standing out and apart from others in a distinktly odiferous and malodorous manner. Brothers and sisters, these are deceptions aimed at undermining the potential of our youth.
"4. The importance of not copulating with farm animals. It has been impressed upon the brethren that it has been too long since the leadership has stressed to the membership the importance of this sacred prohibition and, due to the absence for many years of any express references to this prohibition in General Conference or in other messages, such as messages from the First Presidency, it has come to our attention that increasingly large numbers of members have begun thinking "perhaps this is okay then" and some have even taken it upon themselves to organize social clubs oriented toward promoting this behavior as though it's association with farming and wholesome rural lifestyles would also render this debased and despicable activity wholesome. Nothing could be further from the truth, brothers and sisters.
I'm pretty sure that after a General Conference talk like this, the Church would then encourage leaders in each ward to hand out cards to the members to remind them (yes, they think the members are that stupid) of the new inspired emphasis.
B.L.U.B. Brushing. Looking. Underwear. Bestiality.
;o)
B.L.U.B. Brushing. Looking. Underwear. Bestiality.
;o)
Wally Prince Wrote:
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> Hasn't this been "the plan" for about...I don't
> know...at least the past 150 years or more?!
As they say in the gentile world, "Same sh!t, different day."
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hasn't this been "the plan" for about...I don't
> know...at least the past 150 years or more?!
As they say in the gentile world, "Same sh!t, different day."
The beatings will continue until morale improves.
Sadly, it appears there's 'Nothing New Under the Sun' for the Lord's annotated...
sorry, anointed. I won't make that mistake again!
sorry, anointed. I won't make that mistake again!
Hmmmm, no tithing? Unless it's understood that tithing is a prerequisite for temple work.
Missionary work-
Are they hoping to find people that do not believe in google?
Temple work-
I don't think anybody is properly prepared to make covenants that are "sprung" on you inside the secret temple. Sure, I took the dumb class for an entire year, but I was not prepared to surrender my sense of humor to the church.
Sunday Holy-
Maybe if the church dumped their need for weekly meetings, then people might enjoy it better.
Are they hoping to find people that do not believe in google?
Temple work-
I don't think anybody is properly prepared to make covenants that are "sprung" on you inside the secret temple. Sure, I took the dumb class for an entire year, but I was not prepared to surrender my sense of humor to the church.
Sunday Holy-
Maybe if the church dumped their need for weekly meetings, then people might enjoy it better.
Clever to put the emphasis on temple work, which requires tithing. I remember hearing long ago that attendance is also linked to tithing. So two money goals and two recruiting goals. How can the members not see the pay and work for free scheme?
I do know from experience that Mormons are pharisees at heart, and they consider club fees to be charity. I guess fake people are easy to fake out.
I do know from experience that Mormons are pharisees at heart, and they consider club fees to be charity. I guess fake people are easy to fake out.
Nothing has changed. I just wonder when all this temple building will stop. Once you have too many temples they become less special.
There's absolutely nothing there that improves the skills, knowledge, spirituality, wisdom, independence of the individual. They're all projects that promote the organization.
All of them ultimately pointless. It boggles the mind that people in the Church can't recognize how ridiculously pointless the temple is.
They don't have enough real names to even use the temples for the purpose they're claimed to be for.
There's no logical reason why they can't do a universal, one-time covers all, ordinance for everyone who died without having a chance to go to the temple. There's nothing magic about the names of dead people. There's no guarantee that many of them are even correctly recorded.
It's 100% certain that most people who ever lived and died did so without leaving any record. Three hundred years ago in China or India or Korea? Are the names of all of the people who lived in those places and in those times available? For people with sufficient status to have their individual names recorded in various times and places, just imagine how many records have been destroyed in wartime and disasters. How many records were lost in the Lisbon earthquake of 1755?
I've asked Mormons what would be wrong with an ordinance that goes something like this:
"Brother/Sister [ ] having authority from {yadda yadda} I baptize you for and on behalf of all who are dead and who died without having the opportunity to receive this saving ordinance, so that they may now elect to ratify this baptism as being their own....inanameajesuschrist{yadda yadda}"
No Mormon I've asked this to has had an answer. Mostly just shrugs and words to the effect that "God has his reasons."
Of course, if anything even semi-intelligent like this were to be introduced, there would be no need for all the temples to be operating and consuming electricity and resources and time the way they do. Members would only need to do their own once-in-lifetime ordinances. Temple Winnebagos could be deployed to handle that easily.
All of them ultimately pointless. It boggles the mind that people in the Church can't recognize how ridiculously pointless the temple is.
They don't have enough real names to even use the temples for the purpose they're claimed to be for.
There's no logical reason why they can't do a universal, one-time covers all, ordinance for everyone who died without having a chance to go to the temple. There's nothing magic about the names of dead people. There's no guarantee that many of them are even correctly recorded.
It's 100% certain that most people who ever lived and died did so without leaving any record. Three hundred years ago in China or India or Korea? Are the names of all of the people who lived in those places and in those times available? For people with sufficient status to have their individual names recorded in various times and places, just imagine how many records have been destroyed in wartime and disasters. How many records were lost in the Lisbon earthquake of 1755?
I've asked Mormons what would be wrong with an ordinance that goes something like this:
"Brother/Sister [ ] having authority from {yadda yadda} I baptize you for and on behalf of all who are dead and who died without having the opportunity to receive this saving ordinance, so that they may now elect to ratify this baptism as being their own....inanameajesuschrist{yadda yadda}"
No Mormon I've asked this to has had an answer. Mostly just shrugs and words to the effect that "God has his reasons."
Of course, if anything even semi-intelligent like this were to be introduced, there would be no need for all the temples to be operating and consuming electricity and resources and time the way they do. Members would only need to do their own once-in-lifetime ordinances. Temple Winnebagos could be deployed to handle that easily.
SEcular Priest Wrote:
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> 2. We are to do it joyfully.
I command you to be joyful. Or else.
Yeah, that'll work.
-------------------------------------------------------
> 2. We are to do it joyfully.
I command you to be joyful. Or else.
Yeah, that'll work.
> Then we discussed the four areas or goals of the
> plan.
> 1. Missionary Work
> 2. Temple work
> 3. Ministering
> 4. Keeping the Sabbath Day holy.
>
Let's not, and say we did.
Done!
> plan.
> 1. Missionary Work
> 2. Temple work
> 3. Ministering
> 4. Keeping the Sabbath Day holy.
>
Let's not, and say we did.
Done!
"Sure, sure...we'll get right on it. You just keep pretending to be prophets, seers and revelators, and we'll just pretend like we're going to get around to doing any of this nonsensical busywork sometime in the near future...just not today."
I think they are having a problem that I started to notice in the last few years I was involved, which is over a decade ago.
In the LDS world people come up with a "new" inspired program. This can happen at the headquarters level, or it can be an elders quorum or mission zone. The new inspired program doesn't work any better than the way things were done before. Consequently, another inspired program is initiated.
After awhile, this cycle becomes tedious. I felt like I was being advertised to.
In the LDS world people come up with a "new" inspired program. This can happen at the headquarters level, or it can be an elders quorum or mission zone. The new inspired program doesn't work any better than the way things were done before. Consequently, another inspired program is initiated.
After awhile, this cycle becomes tedious. I felt like I was being advertised to.
When organizations lack strong philosophical cores (read weak mission statements hiding vacuous purposes and trite goals and personal fulfillment) they have to continually spin around their vacuum core to avoid oblivion.
If the tithing money ever stops rolling in, they might take a serious look at their programs are working.
But in the meantime, all they need to do is continue to stir the pot and keep the sheep focusing on the butt end of the sheep ahead.
But in the meantime, all they need to do is continue to stir the pot and keep the sheep focusing on the butt end of the sheep ahead.
My focus is not on the butt end of the sheep ahead. Its on the toilets in front of me when I get to do my turns at joyfully cleaning the chapels so Heavenly Father can save some money.