For the last three years I’ve been wanting to leave the church - but have wanted to do it with my husband of five years - who seems to feel the same way as me, but changes the subject every time I bring up my lack of faith.

My husband doesn’t really excel at church, he is shy and wears colored shirts, which makes him kind of an outcast in a room of men who are all really patriarchal and wear the exact same white shirt. When our home teachers come over and look to him to call on someone to say the prayer, he says “Oh, Lisa usually chooses who says the prayers in our home.” I love calling on one of them to say it and watching them squirm, wondering if they should really take orders from a woman. He’s lying though, we never pray unless the home teachers are over. And he’s been dodging them for the last three months, telling them we’re going on vacation or have family coming to visit, or that I’m ill.

Every Sunday night he has a good story about some idiot in elders quorum who says his favorite thing about his wife is her amazing cooking. He’s a democrat, shops on Sunday, and has recently started swearing it and loves it. (It’s hilarious how much he loves it. He’ll pour a glass of water and say “This is good water. DAMN this is DAMN good water. DAMN!”) He told me yesterday that he hated our temple wedding, and wishes we had gotten married somewhere else.

But although he complains about going to church, when I convince him to skip he feels sick about it, and insists on going the next week. He’s also a full tithe payer, and the real clincher is -- he is employed by the LDS church. Because of his job he has to have a temple recommend - and the last two times he’s gone to get it renewed he’s told me he really wished he didn’t have to, and wouldn't do it otherwise. I have never gotten mine renewed.

However, every time I bring up the fact that because of all these problems we have with the church, I want to leave - he changes the subject. Or says I'm just looking for things to get angry about, which is sometimes true.

I’d chalk the discrepancy between his beliefs and his actions as a commitment to his job - but my mom is the exact same way.

My mom has requested working in primary since she was 18 so she wouldn’t have to hear the nonsense other women are saying in Relief Society, she’s more liberal than anyone else in the world. That may sound like hyperbole but it isn’t. She gets furious with church leaders, and told me when I was little that the scriptures are “make-believe stories to teach us how to be better people.” She can’t stand the priesthood, says the temple ceremony is a load of garbage, that Joseph Smith was a lunatic, yet she keeps attending church every week, and is hoping my younger sister will go on a mission.

Why do so many smart people hate the Mormon church, and maybe not even believe in it, but keep going? Am I crazy to want out so badly? Is there something logical about staying, even if you don’t agree with it? I talked to my mom about it last week and she said that she thinks overall, the church makes people better and happier, and for all the wrongs it does, that has to be a good thing.

As a critical thinker, and mostly as a woman, I feel oppressed and angry about church and I want to leave, but feel like I first need to come to terms with the way my friends “live the gospel.”

What, if anything, should I say to my husband to let him know my feelings go deeper than just not liking white shirts and being a bad cook? Any thoughts? I know they’ll probably be more cohesive than mine. This jumbled mess should be some indication of how confused I am.

So your mom thinks TSCC makes happier better people as long as they don't go to meetings and listen to their crap. Okay.

As for your husband, would he have to leave his job if he quit the church? That can be daunting, especially if the economy wherever you are is still as bad as it is here. Maybe you can encourage him to update his resume and start looking for a new job as a first step. If he can find other employment where all the other employees aren't looking at him as possessed by satan, then maybe he can start working on leaving TSCC.

It's their "tribe," their family, their history and as such they are free to complain about it! But leave it? No, that's not even a possibility for many. The emotional bond/attachment to the beliefs, even though they are not totally compliant, plus, in this case, employment leave the person with few viable options.

I believe it is the tribe thing too. They care less whether or not it is true. They ultimately feel such a part of this tribe they would feel empty without it there. There are times I even miss the tribe. But I care about whether it is true.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/14/2011 06:18AM by suckafoo.

+1 :-)

our siblings and we all have the same DNA. We aren't any smarter.

I can see your DH's dilemma. I hated looking for jobs with every fiber of my being and stayed in some I shouldn't have.

If you stop going, is that going to put him in trouble at work too? Because otherwise, I can't understand why you are there.

Heresy:


the term "intelligence" is almost unspoken in scientific terms, isn't it?

Isn't "intelligence" just a rather Gross sumation of mental ability-capacity, which is actually much more sophisticated rather than being one-dimensional?

Even if we 'all have the same intelligence <because of DNA>...we certainly don't all behave the same, do we?

e.g. Why do some rob banks while others work for Peace among individuals & groups? Why are some brain surgeons and others ditch-diggers?

I believe the same dimensions apply to our social lives: multi-dimensional, that is...

the once-common terms such as 'sub-conscious', along with 'intelligence' are today rather meaningless, at least in a scientific application, I believe.

justr sayin'

Some of the things you wrote point to him being a rather passive person. I'm on the passive side of the scale myself, so I recognize it. It takes a lot to get us passive types to take action that disrupts our life. Leaving the church would mean needing to find a new job. What a pain in the ass that is -- particularly these days. Whatever crap he suffers because of his current state, it probably doesn't outweigh the hassle (real or imagined) of change.

I agree with Stray Mutt. It's easier for your husband to go than not to go. It's also likely that he has an emotional attachment to the church.

Until/unless he has another job, it's a moot point, anyway.

However if you think that you can stay home from church on Sundays without endangering his job, you should do so. I believe that marriages are healthier overall if couples are not always joined at the hip.

. . . despite the fact that both reasons are irrational.

But sometimes smart people give in to the irrational because the human brain (even the one belonging to smart people) is quite creative in conjuring up fantasies that make them feel tingly and hopeful, while providing them a sense of community and stability, regardless of the evidence against those fantasies.



Edited 5 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2011 04:26PM by steve benson.

He is obviously uncomfortable with the church and wants an excuse to leave. However, he is intellectually and emotionally programmed to go. He will feel guilty if he drops out, so he keeps going even if he hates it.

He's the type who is happy to be sick on Sunday so he can stay home and not feel bad about it.

The solution is for him to read about the church, find out its true BS ratio, and do the emotional work to overcome his guilt. Unfortunately, I'm not sure what it will take to get him to do that.

Being a convert, I only have one other family member who is a mormon. She is a doctor. She is not only outspoken and highly intelligent, but the traditional role of breadwinner and homemaker were reversed in her marriage- she worked full-time, while dad stayed home and raised their children.

I honestly don't know how she has survived being a feminist in the mormon culture for 30+ odd years.

any doubts on his part are moot.

Please tell your fantastic family member: RIGHT ON! Keep up the fantastic work and defying the fucked up TSCC cultural expectations.

Damn is hardly swearing.

I did it alot growing up because it was just part of how the English speak, and hell and well the occasional bloody!

Idk why he keeps going back.

I know for me it has been a 3 year process.

It is just hard to leave.


>>>>>>>>>>>My mom has requested working in primary since she was 18 so she wouldn’t have to hear the nonsense other women are saying in Relief Society, she’s more liberal than anyone else in the world. That may sound like hyperbole but it isn’t. She gets furious with church leaders, and told me when I was little that the scriptures are “make-believe stories to teach us how to be better people.” She can’t stand the priesthood, says the temple ceremony is a load of garbage, that Joseph Smith was a lunatic, yet she keeps attending church every week, and is hoping my younger sister will go on a mission.<<<<<<<<<<<<

Ha ha ha ha oi!

Sounds like me, I just need an exit strategy.

I wrote a long post, giving the reasons why, and it accidentally got erased.

What is more important, is what you can do about your situation.

My advice is, until your husband finds another job, just go with it, girl!

Let your husband know that you agree with him. Be positive. Have a sense of humor. Make him happy.

Give him the excuses he wants, to skip church. Do you really care if he uses you as a scapegoat, if the results are positive? Do you really care if the snarky Mormons gossip about you, if the two of you are enjoying a happy life?

Go ahead and really do invite family members over to visit, or friends over for a Sunday barbecue. Really do plan a fun weekend vacation to take you away on Sunday. You are creative, and can think of tons of things to do on Sundays. Insist that your husband goes with you to Ikea, or to the country to buy fruit, or to visit your grandma in the next town--whatever. Be sure to have some fun--stop at a restaurant, play golf or tennis or ski or whatever you like to do, go to the beach or park--whatever it is you enjoy.

What level of attendance is demanded for a temple recommend? Find out, and your husband doesn't need to put in one second more of his time. It used to be 75% of sacrament meetings, but none of the other meetings were required! Nothing was said about callings, either. That means, if DH is strong and learns to say "no", he will only waste a total of three hours a month.

You can back him up, and help him to say "no" to the HT's, VT's, callings, activities, janitorial duty, and unnecessary meetings. Behave as though you were in a normal church. As human beings living in America, your husband and you have a RIGHT to say "no" without any explanation or excuse. With Mormons, you will have to tell them no many many times, over and over. Practice with your husband: "no...no, I won't do that...no...no, I'm not going...no, we won't be there." Be polite. Giving a reason just opens you up for a debate, and Mormons love to talk people into things. Don't let them. Respect your personal boundaries.

I do know that a temple recommend does not require anything of one's spouse or children. You and your kids are free to leave! Your husband might envy you or resent you at first, but you will make it up to him with the lovely dinner you prepare for him while he's away at church. Send him off to sacrament meeting with a good breakfast and a promise of a good time when he returns home. Remind him that he will have a much happier wife, if you can be free. You seem to be doing that very well, right now.

What about your children? Your mother still is brainwashed into believing that Mormonism is the ONLY TRUE CHURCH, and that the ONLY way her daughter can be happy is to go on a mission. There is also the threat that anyone who leaves Mormonism will fail, and fall into sin and despair. The truth is quite the opposite! Since we resigned, my children and I have been much happier, and we have been successful, in spite of the curses put on us by my mother, the bishop, and other Mormons.

Your husband's job probably does not require that his family have to be Mormons, does it? You might be freer than you think. Have fun in your life! Your husband is lucky to have you!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/13/2011 04:42PM by motherwhoknows.

Husband is making good progress. Keep encouraging him and giving him reasons to make more progress.

Emotions take a while to catch up and process so that a person feels comfortable how far they have come and want to go further. That is being human.

The LDS employment is going to be a real firewall of course.

for most of his life, it may just be hard to imagine any other pattern of living and going from being an active Mormon one month to being a completely inactive Mormon the next may just seem like to much of a shock to the system.

It sounds like he's already moving in the right direction. For a lot of people it's kind of like testing the waters and getting into a cool swimming pool gradually versus leaping in all at once without knowing in advance how cold it's going to be.

Due to all of the conditioning, I think that a lot of Mormons who don't really like the Church that much still have a lot of fears operating at a deep unconscious level. They need to test things one at a time. They need to find out that they can go out of the house in the morning without wearing their garments and still make it back in one piece in the evening, despite not having the magical protection of the garments. They need to find out that they can blow off tithing for a few months or a year without being cursed with a major financial set back. They need to know that they can laugh at the silly pomposity of the GAs without being struck by lightening.

That could be a perfect description of my DH!!!! I swear, he can't stand our ward, has started shopping on Sundays, told me on the phone recently on how he likes to question the teachers in EQ and ask off-the-wall eye-opening questions, drinks regular iced tea (he's hung up on that caffeine temperature thing), backs me up on my decision to only attend SM after I walked out of that RS lesson:

http://exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,215986,216800,page=2#msg-216800

BUT HE STILL WANTS TO ATTEND CHURCH!!!!!!!!!!!

It boggles the imagination to no end. LOL.