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Posted by: AnonAndAnon ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 04:09PM

Heard the Ward Cleaning Specialist, or whatever the heck name they have for it, complaining. I mentioned that I knew people were not showing up to do their assigned jobs. She said, "No, that's not the trouble. They show up but don't follow the instructions I write out for them".

Shucks! Seems they come and just do whatever they consider to be adequate cleaning and leave. Or maybe they just sign-in and sign-out at the same time. Who knows. Yuck! One can only imagine......:(

My mother suggested they get pros to do the work and the WCS responded that the leaders have spoken on this matter. I could tell she didn't want to say anything about the blessings members get from the service. She probably knew we'd laugh.

What can you expect from coerced volunteers?

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 05:32PM

Oftentimes, you get what you pay for.

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Posted by: Honest TB[long] ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 05:56PM

Have you ever calculated the worth of not being thrown into a lake of fire and brimstone for all eternity by our super loving Heavenly Father? Being fearful is a powerful tool to get us to scrub those toilets. And the only way we should have such blessed fear is if we have total belief that the Church is the most honest/transparent, i.e. true, organization ever.

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Posted by: annon1 ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 05:46PM

I usually ignore the text reminders. I think I've cleaned the bldg once in 2 years. I don't mind helping, but the church is sitting on $31 billion in assets. (That we know of). Go back to the old way. Find an unemployed member and hire them to do it. It gives them a job and some money to help out with bills.

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 05:57PM

The church is sitting on 32 Billion in stock portfolio assets. This does not include real estate, ranches, farms, condos, office buildings, businesses or other assets. Most financial experts, that have studied church finances, estimate their worth at over 100 Billion. A lot, built on the backs of tithing and membership labor. They can afford to have their buildings cleaned- daily. It's a way to save money and guilt the flock. Win-Win!!

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 06:02PM

A brother went out for "irrigation" service at the farm. He pulled up, signed in at the shed and turned on every water faucet that he could find. He was a good man and signed out too before leaving. Yeah, this farm was a hilltop farm. A giant reservoir formed. We heard how the church paid a $!0000 water bill that month.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 06:44PM

Who Hasn't been seen cleaning buildings?

Romney, Huntsman, Holland?

Hinckley, Nelson, Benson?

any or ALL of the 15, the GAs, MPs, Area Presidents (still have those?)

RS Presidency (SL)


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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 11:55PM

one or two of them have on rare occasion put on a show for public relations purposes and photo ops, wearing rubber gloves or something...and then left immediately after the cameras were put away.

Even if they did do it, it would be different. They are full-time employees of ChurchCo with six-figure "stipends", so it wouldn't really be volunteer, un-paid service for them.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 07:53PM

My Baptist church has a rotation so I'm on once every three weeks, with four "stations." That means I get bathrooms once every twelve weeks. Sister Kristen follow me in the rotation, and she's a perfectionist. That means I can do a pretty good job, most of the time, and I know she'll be really thorough the week following. System works. Kristen is a real saint!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 07:55PM

One wonders what Sis. Kristen's musings are as she cleans up, knowing that you were the one who cleaned before her?

Have you found favor in her cleaning eyes? Do you dare to ask?

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 08:55PM

Seriously, most of us are pretty thorough. Kristen is simply the one who actually likes getting into the cracks and corners with a stiff brush.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 04:54PM

caffiend Wrote:
> Kristen
> is simply the one who actually likes getting into
> the cracks and corners with a stiff brush.

Stop it, you're getting me all excited...!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 04:57PM

Lusty old goat, isn't he!

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 05:04PM

Sister Kristen, you're the one. You really get the toilets done!

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: October 13, 2018 02:50PM

And an attractive young lady under 30...

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 01:18PM

If I were to go back to a church for social networking and volunteer cleaning was the norm and not by a paid contractor I would look elswhere for social gatherings. I do enough cleaning at my own home.

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Posted by: Phazer ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 01:21PM

There are roughly 4 million active members worldwide.

The 2 hr block is simply to reduce facility use. Blend in the fact less people are going and accepting callings and many members are taking off.

I guess the kids will be singing less and learning more about Joseph Smith and a Jesus.

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Posted by: Josephina ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 09:12PM

There is a tremendous difference between being asked to clean because a church is struggling financially or is actually helping the poor and needy, and a super-wealthy church that essentially does nothing for its people. The LDS welfare program doesn't count because the people pay for it themselves, through fast offerings. There is a Liahona Children's Fund that operates in 3rd world countries INDEPENDENT of the LDS church, because the church can't "afford" to feed the hungry children of their parent converts.

Yet Russ Nelson tells these extremely poor families that they can get out of poverty by paying tithing.

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 08:09AM

> Yet Russ Nelson tells these extremely poor
> families that they can get out of poverty by
> paying tithing."

Mormon President Tells Africans That Tithing Will Break Their Cycle of Poverty

That is so sick!

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 05:43PM

subeamnotlogedin Wrote:
> "
> > Yet Russ Nelson tells these extremely poor
> > families that they can get out of poverty by
> > paying tithing."
> Mormon President Tells Africans That Tithing Will
> Break Their Cycle of Poverty
> That is so sick!

In many African countries, what we call "public school" is often only accessible to those families who can pay "school fees" for tuition...and in addition: these "public" schools" can often be attended ONLY by those students who are affluent enough to purchase designated school uniforms--and each school has its own, unique, current uniform, which means that uniforms bought for older children may often not be able to be used by younger siblings as they get older.

There is a fairly enormous corpus of African, country-specific, school-related creative literature (mostly short stories, and small non-fiction pieces) written by African adults who were once African children, who were not able to go to school because their family could not pay the required school fees and/or the uniform costs--which continues into the following generation, as the eventual offspring of those students, as parents, cannot pay the school fees and/or uniform costs for their own children growing up.

(Alternatively, there are parents who voluntarily go through enormously horrific experiences in their attempts to obtain the required money so THEIR children can become educated, hopefully (but not anywhere near always) to a level we would consider roughly comparable to high school graduation.)

[This process usually involves passing, with a satisfactory set of scores, national "leaving" examinations, which usually determine what kind of a job a person will qualify for (if any), or if that person theoretically meets the qualifications required for university entrance--with the same problems of money as exist pre-university.]

If instead of tithing, that money was spent instead on school fees and uniform costs for school-age children through what we would call "high school graduation," this could transform most of Africa to a nearly unimaginable, and unbelievably positive, extent inside of two generations.

Instead of universal literacy and basic skills for an entire continent in need, however, I guess [whatever it is now called] thinks that additional, high value real estate holdings are the priority--not only in their personal and their institutional opinion, but quite obviously, in God's opinion as well.

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2018 03:01AM by Tevai.

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: October 13, 2018 01:48AM

When I lived in Kinshasa, everyone begged at me because I was white, and normally, the white residents are the only ones who had money. I seldom, if ever, gave money. I would buy bread and water (clean water being a real scarcity), or maybe bring them to a hot food vendor and have him order food, things like that. But one of the "shegue" (pronounced "she-GAY--homeless boys living and sleeping rough) named Regan really wanted to go to school and asked me for money to pay for a year of public school. So a co-worker and I went to the closest school and made a deal with the headmistress, and she gave me a list of the supplies and the costs of a year in elementary school. I couldn't believe it. It cost my co-worker and me over $100 in books, papers, tuition, uniform, and shoes. I'm surprised that any of the kids can get into school there.

(To know more about Kinshasa's shegue, see:

(Also, completely off-topic, down toward the bottom of the stack of photos, there is a picture of a dead boy laying on a wet street, hit by a car during the night in the rain. It's shocking to me because I was right there, driving by when that particular event occurred. Of all the random things to find on a website, I find a picture of something that I witnessed.)

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Posted by: Tevai ( )
Date: October 13, 2018 03:13AM


Even if that was the only year of school he ever got, it probably was enough to make his life better, not only for HIS lifetime, but for the lifetimes of any potential spouse or offspring. I am so glad you did this, and I know that he will think of you, and thank you, always--until the time when he takes his last breath.

It is SO HARD to be a street kid in Africa, and I don't know about how bad AIDS has been where you were, but I know for a fact that in South Africa, kids younger than FIVE YEARS OLD are taking care of their younger siblings, and nursing their mothers as much as they are able to, because their parents are dying, or have died, from AIDS.

Thank you for making the world (certainly the world of that boy, and any children he might have in the future) better for your having been there.

Thank you!!!!!

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Posted by: chipace ( )
Date: October 11, 2018 11:34PM

My eyes were opened when I was assigned as the executive secretary, as to how difficult it is to get people to take their turn with speaking and prayer assignments. I can't understand why every single Ward Cleaning Specialist doesn't leave the TSCC for good. It's obvious that everyone around you does not want to be at church at all.
No one wants to be there... the emperor has no clothes!

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 01:32AM

The guy I replaced as ward clerk was made executive secretary. He hated that calling with a passion. He would always tell me he would trade me callings and tease me I was next. Thankfully I never got called to be executive secretary. Apparently the job sucks.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 05:53AM

The Mormon church disparages other churches with paid ministers. But part of the advantage of having a paid ministry is that you can go to church on Sunday, and sit back and relax, knowing that you will hear a sermon from someone who has been highly trained in theology and doctrine.

At these churches, you only volunteer if you wish to. Routine cleaning is normally handled by a paid staff.

The Methodist (UMC) church donates 25% of members' offerings to charity -- *and* the church has a paid ministry. My best guess is that with all of the volunteer labor at the local level, the Mormon church could get by with only a 1% donation ("tithing") from its members.

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Posted by: Tx Rancher ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 10:03PM

I appreciate your comments. I never thought of it that way!

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Posted by: Beth ( )
Date: October 13, 2018 05:13PM

We would have visiting pastors until we picked one. The pastor and family would move into the parsonage if they accepted the offer to minister to us, and things were cool.

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Posted by: Anon 3 ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 04:03AM

In the 2 hour meeting now, I wonder if those bathrooms are going to get the use out of them that a 3 hour meeting had.

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Posted by: kilgravmaga ( )
Date: October 12, 2018 06:31AM

You get what you pay for.

If they wanted them to clean like professionals, they should have hired professionals.

As it is, they are lucky anyone shows up and gives freely of their time and labor. If they are doing a half-assed job, then maybe they need to double the number of asses.

No, but really... they should get pros.

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Posted by: readwrite-now ( )
Date: October 13, 2018 02:14AM

I never cleaned a [LDS] church.
I seldom dirtied it though.

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Posted by: chipace ( )
Date: October 13, 2018 06:47PM

Lots and lots of young kids and teenagers. Future tithing payers are looked after by current tithing payers. Tcojcolds cycle of profit... at the current rate of accumulation, the TSCC will be able to buy everything on Earth in 3.8 billion years. The sun will burn out in 3.7 billion years... Haha losers!

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: October 13, 2018 07:05PM

Do to a weak heart I DO NOT do bend over type cleaning for anyone who can afford to hire someoneto do that. I do a limited amount to keep my own domicle in order but I can think of a four letter word or two to express my sentiments should someone try to impose upon me in this way.

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Posted by: presleynfactsrock ( )
Date: October 13, 2018 11:11PM

My recollection of the beginnings of this amazing-toilet-cleaning-revelation was that there existed no ward cleaning supervisor (have no idea if I am right or wrong). But what I do remember for sure thinking is that I give this stupid new plan at the most a year and the MORMON church will be back to begging the janitors to return (I hoped they would demand a huge, huge raise to do so).

My next thought was this - the reason for the rehire of the janitors is the morg will get busted by the Board of Health! I seriously thought there was a very good chance this might happen.

Yep, I know what you are thinking....I better not leave my day job.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/13/2018 11:20PM by presleynfactsrock.

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