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Posted by: koriwhore ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 04:12PM


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Posted by: Kathleen ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 06:35PM

Walter.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 06:37PM

Except Walter kind of grows on you... Rusty, not so much.

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Posted by: Concerned Citizen 2.0 ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 06:43PM

...OK. Then don't call yourself a Mormon. Seems easy to remedy.


"If thine eye offend thee, pluck it out!"

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 07:23PM

koriwhore Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2018/10/
> 21/commentary-im-ashamed/?fbclid=IwAR1E3EHnsP8JAqv
> OpXlNiK03l0PKB5zWZQ1YTxXgQEna9ThbIUzhe3vXZdU
> Good.
> Quit.
> MORmON.

He did quite MORmON. He now says he 'just can't' follow ExMormon subreddit, write any more articles, follow Mormon friends and family. Other 'can'ts' in there.

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Posted by: anono this week ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 08:49PM

"People formerly known as Mormons worry more about a nickname than about sexual predators in their church.... They’re more concerned with “defending” marriage than driving teens to suicide."

This is very true. He also says mormons don't care about climate change, and are very far to the right politically.

I wonder why that is? Why aren't mormons more into leftist progressiveness more?

(I posted that question a few weeks ago but it got deleted, oh well?)

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 23, 2018 12:44AM

When the oil companies start buying tankers equipped to travel through the frozen parts of northern Canada and DoD planners begin running war-game scenarios within the arctic circle, global warming is no longer a "leftist progressive" cause.

So the question isn't why Mormons aren't interested in "progressive causes:" it is more basic than that.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 09:26PM

Break Out the PR fire-extinguisher!

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 10:09PM

I've never been happier to call myself a mormon! Repeatedly!

I sent my TBM daughter a very short email in which I stated that I was raised mormon and that I'll always be a tribal mormon and that Rusty was full of it.

She sent a brief response that was completely neutral...

It's a start!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 10:11PM

Congratulations.

I remember your struggles on that other board long ago and far away. The church takes hostages. . .

I sincerely hope all works out well.

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Posted by: elderolddog ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 11:39PM

We still don't 'talk' about the church. Recall that when Saucie and I went up to have dinner with BYUBoner and memikeyounot, I learned that her second son had elected NOT to go on a mission. I have no idea what is going to happen with the third son...

As compensation(?) she's taken her daughter to EVERY temple in Utah to do baptisms for los muertos. I think it would be cool to have baptisms for los muertos on Halloween Night!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: October 23, 2018 12:34AM

I feel for your daughter as well. It's not easy being Mormon, and if one or more of her children is going another way she could be suffering quietly.

You know how to play this. I'm sure you will be available, and empathetic, when meaningful opportunity arises.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: October 21, 2018 07:15PM

Thank you for this, Cludgie.

Tounsend expresses this with love, and sadness, but without venom.

Each of us has to make our own life decisions, while hanging onto our basic love of humanity and respect for principles.

For me, I could not remain a member of the FKA Mormon church and still keep my integrity. Mormonism had to go!

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: October 21, 2018 07:47PM

So, cludgie, you won't be posting here anymore? Or which parts did he 'read (your) mind'?

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Posted by: cludgie ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 12:03AM

He is just disappointed in the very same things. I'm sure it resonates with a lot of people here.

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 06:56PM

cludgie Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He is just disappointed in the very same things.
> I'm sure it resonates with a lot of people here.

But he concludes with what he is NOT going to do anymore: he won't follow Mormon family and friends (I'm assuming this means social media?), won't visit ExMo Subreddit, won't write any more articles, etc.

Or, do you not identify with this part? The vow to do it differently going forward? He 'just can't' (aka won't) but how does it resonate for you?

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Posted by: deja vue ( )
Date: October 21, 2018 09:10PM

Very well written. Can feel his abandonment. What cult member can read this and not be affected?

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Posted by: Shame ( )
Date: October 21, 2018 09:48PM

While shame is a valid emotion after leaving Mormonism, the linked article devolves into political drivel IMO.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: October 21, 2018 09:48PM

The main thing is that it’s only getting worse. The canaries in the coal mine are dropping like flies and all Oaks and his cronies can do is act out scenes from “Dumb and Dumber”.

The much celebrated changes were meeting time changes and wording changes. Their house is crumbling around them and they’re wrapping duct tape around structural supports.

When I was a TBM, “follow the prophet” was only a little creepy because God’s Gestapo was doing God’s work. Didn’t Europe go through this stuff 80 years ago? It’s not even that the Mormons are wrong. It’s that their way of thinking is just bad. You can tell that it’s bad by looking at what it has led to. You can also extrapolate that it will continue to get worse.

That’s because as the world outside improves, TSCC will have to work in ever more ridiculous ways to make bogeymen. The church uses fear to keep people in. Go ahead and see how well that works on kids today.

Historically, death has been the church’s only salvation. But medical science is taking that away. The gerontocracy will finish off the church.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/21/2018 09:56PM by babyloncansuckit.

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 07:22PM

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The main thing is that it’s only getting worse.

How is the modern era 'worse' than fathers giving their daughters to Joseph Smith?

How is it 'worse' than virtually no option for teenagers and 20's (average age of marriage in 1800's was 21) other than marriage? To a man NOT one of their peers? Lots of pressure in plural marriage?

How it it 'worse' than effectively zero education options for young women?

How is it 'worse' than living under the common law Doctrine of Coverture (declared a woman civilly dead after marriage)?

How is it 'worse' when women had zero rights to property, money, no ownership whatsoever?

Hell, how is it 'worse' than being a Mormon in the 1950's/60's/70's/80's with NO internet? Only the Tanners' work and who could even know how to get a hold of that?

How is it 'worse' than a convert in Europe who has no access to the BYU Library to even read and forget about share knowledge?

Nowdays, I can turn on my TV and see:

Julianne and Derek Hough dancing their asses off

Ryan Gosling dance his ass off

Bryce Harper hit it outta the park

Amy Adams perform in amazing and life changing ways

Paul Walker be the bomb dot comb in Fast and Furious

Chuck Schumer who votes and speaks out against bigotry, racism, misogyny.

Just a handful of examples of those who have every choice available to them, despite being raised Mormon and in huge contrast to those who preceded us in the Mormon history.

Defend 'worse'. In the age of information, with internet to search for everything under the sun, and in the age of message boards such as this to hold people's hands who are frightened to leave.

Defend 'worse'.

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Posted by: TX Rancher ( )
Date: October 21, 2018 11:57PM

I read the article. Very good...and points out the horrible direction the Mormon church has taken, regardless of if it is "true" or not (it isn't). Hypocrisy at its best.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 12:17AM

Exactly. The church AT ONE TIME really had a great thing going. Now it’s come to this. I’m not some angry “anti”. I’m only pissed off because THEY did this. They let the church go. It’s the people who make the church, not the old farts. But they can’t be honest and admit that the doctrine really has no intrinsic meaning beyond what you yourself give it because then they would be irrelevant. They drove out all of the good people with their culty BS, so the only people left are the kind who thrive on culty BS. Guess what. That’s not sustainable. A great community doesn’t just happen. It takes a lot of time. It takes real hope. Real faith in each other.

Hangers on don’t just come to RfM because to talk trash. That’s fun. But many of us loved the church. If old Russ wanted solid advice, he could ask here.

But as I’ve noted here before, as far as relevancy goes the church is gone. Elvis has left the building. The world of a century ago is gone. It’s a wonder it didn’t blow itself itself up. There’s still N Korea, but notice how only ideologues consider nukes a viable option. Cult thinking enables the pushing of the button. They’re not just Russians with better BBQ.

But back to my point, the previous age needed the church. It could be providential that Oaks is basically running the church. Maybe it should die with him. We can only hope.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/22/2018 12:43AM by babyloncansuckit.

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 08:10PM

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Exactly. The church AT ONE TIME really had a great
> thing going.

What was 'great thing (they had) going'?

Joseph Smith?

Polygamy?

Ripping off everyone and their mother with treasure hunting, promises of eternal salvation, seer stone?

The BY era? (Hello)

What on earth was this really great thing Mormons had?

They let the church go?

You want to return to the origin of the church??! Because now it is 'worse'?

Jesus.

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Posted by: gettinreal ( )
Date: October 23, 2018 08:27AM

The church of the 80’s was fun. There were social aspects like road shows, ward Christmas parties, youth outings...
Being a Mormon was also a cultural identity. Now it’s scrubbing toilets and rehashing the same prescribed lesson manual with no variation. There’s nothing fun or interesting left.

I think that’s what the previous post is referring to.

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 10:07PM

I think that the MORMON church hit its high point in the 1950's to 1970's. True, the priesthood and the temple were closed off to anyone with African blood in their veins, but gays were tolerated as "strange", and women had freedom in their RS to raise funds and spend their earnings. There was more flexibility in each ward. There was more creativity--ward members were writing their own Christmas programs and Primary programs and original road shows. We had the "Singing Mothers" and the Dance Festival, and youth conferences that included the whole region. They were preforming music, from those good protestant organists to the classical Greats. Teens had their own activities and projects. Mormons did charity work with other churches--at least in our small California town.

For some perverse reason, the more the cult turns things over to "The Family", the further away from Love and Home they get. For our family, when I was a child, things changed with the concept of Family Home Evening. We already had love and togetherness, wonderful conversations, activities and road trips, sports and hobbies we shared as a family, which brought us closer together AND WERE FUN, at the same time. My parents said, "Every night is a family home evening, around here--we don't need our church giving us a manual and telling us what to say and do."

Now, the Mormon cult is using the same reasoning, to explain why the 3-hour meeting block has been cut down to 2. "We're putting responsibility back onto the families." There will be "ministers" to make sure this is being done. I'm afraid that there will be even more Mormons breaking down household doors, in the future, than there are now, and in a more invasive manner.

At the time the Blacks were suddenly given the priesthood, my parents could not figure out why they had been denied the priesthood, in the first place. Instead of being delighted that equal rights (except for women) finally prevailed, they were angry that the Mormon prophets had gone back on their word. Timeless Truth was not timeless, and it had never been true. My RS president mother ran around the house in a frenzy, saying, "It's a CULT! It's nothing but a CULT!" One of my brothers had recently returned from his mission, and had become completely inactive. My father turned down the calling to be bishop, so he could travel around the world, making money. I married an RM in the temple, and he beat me and almost killed me. My oldest brother, an RM, eagle scout, faithful Mormon had a sociopath for a son. Our important GA relative died. I was divorced, and forced to attend the singles ward, instead of going to church with my family. It was all over.

That's when our little Mormon bubble burst. Family home evening, the RS under the thumb of the priesthood, blacks given the priesthood with no apology or explanation why they had been excluded, single Mormons forced into their own separate wards, until they got married, no more ward autonomy, no more money for activities, plays, gold and green balls, road shows, dance festivals, singles conferences, no more REAL volunteer work, no more good music.

Many of us have lived through those changes. As a group, a fellowship, a community, yes, the cult has gotten worse, since the 1960's. The "Gospel" has always been horrible. Polygamy is horrible. As far as I'm concerned, they are still polygamists, because they believe in Polygamy in the Hereafter.

In the 1970's I became a battered wife, and my ex-husband got away with it, because his relative was a GA. Still unchanged on their stance toward women, the Mormons condone and enable the abuse of women and children. Probably more Mormon neighbors beat their children, than did not, in the 1970's. I don't know as many children, now, so I have no idea if this has improved, or not.

Maybe it has gotten "worse" because so much more information has come to light, these days.

Most of us can agree that it has gotten "less fun", less loving, less communal, more depressing, more boring, more mercenary--but not any more FALSE and TOXIC than it always was.

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Posted by: SL Cabbie ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 05:51PM

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2018/10/21/commentary-im-ashamed/

The Reader's Digest version:

>>I'm ashamed to call myself a Mormon

>>It’s not because of anything President Russell M. Nelson has said. It’s not because I no longer believe the Book of Mormon is “true.”

>>I was baptized into the Mormon church on Feb. 5, 1971. I served as the Aaronic Priesthood secretary and as seminary class president, and performed in our stake’s production of “Saturday’s Warrior.” I served a full-time mission in Italy, then served as Sunday school teacher, as second counselor in the elders quorum, as stake missionary...

>>Even after being excommunicated when I came out as gay, I still harbored mostly good feelings about the church...

>>I’ve spent my life writing about Mormons.

>>Instead of being a light set upon a hill, Mormons became supporters of some of the cruelest legislation and politicians in this country’s history.

Amen.

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Posted by: Concerned Citizen 2.0 ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 06:16PM

...wow. This guy is deeply conflicted. He believes, but can't stomach it. So now what.............counseling? Shrink? Cult de-programmer? Court of Love? Lead snack?...glad I'm not in his shoes.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 08:46PM

He wants the church of the 1970s. That’s not coming back.

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 09:18PM

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> He wants the church of the 1970s. That’s not
> coming back.

There was no Affirmation then (Love Affirmation!) He couldn't be out and Mormon back then.

There was no ExMo subreddit or whatnot.

This guy doesn't know what he wants. Best he not have such a voice until he can articulate his desires with certainty.

"Despite my body of work dealing almost exclusively with Mormons, I can no longer bear to write about them. I can’t follow Affirmation anymore, I can’t follow the exmormon subreddit, I can’t follow my Mormon friends and family. I will probably give up these op-eds as well."

'can't'? Really? This is what adulting has come to? We 'can't'? Please.

We don't. We won't. We do. We will.

He has every choice available to him in a free country and still, he choose victim status.

Guess he has learned well.

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Posted by: midwestanon ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 08:43PM

This is the 3rd and most recently created thread about this article.

Just sayin’.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 08:58PM

How Long has it been since any Good News (other than investments) has reached the COB / Q15?

as thick-skinned as they appear outwardly, they're dry inside if these things aren't causing alarms to sound...

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Posted by: carameldreams ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 09:15PM

Other threads on same topic here:

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2168691,2168979#msg-2168979

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2168934

Mods, can there be a consolidation on these threads, same topic?

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Posted by: Dave the Atheist ( )
Date: October 22, 2018 11:58PM

Doctor ... doctor . It hurts when I hit myself on the head with this hammer.
Can you help me ?

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Posted by: Leaving ( )
Date: October 23, 2018 01:20AM

Note the cuff links that Rusty is wearing. Them ain't cheap.

Just sayin'

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Posted by: matt ( )
Date: October 23, 2018 04:36AM

SLT is STILL blocked by the damned EU.

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Posted by: Soft Machine ( )
Date: October 23, 2018 05:16AM

If the Washington Post can do it, why can't the SLT?

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