How can I be sure that people who have resigned or excommunicated are not counted in the total numbers of some 16 million? I'm wondering because the statistical method the church uses seems to be a secret.

What is the methodology used in registering or counting members and what factors constitute membership? Has the church detailed this out or is it kept hidden?
https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/topic/church-growth

When I resigned, my record of baptism and ordinances was not destroyed, it is still kept by the church. How can I be sure that they aren't counting my baptism as long as I'm still alive?

AFAIK -- you can't be sure. The names of resigned people are moved to a separate file, not destroyed. I don't know how the Mormon church is currently handling matters in Europe, which has much stricter privacy laws.

Roughly a third of the 16 million members are active. The church traditionally keeps members on its records until age 110 unless notified of a member's death.

Thanks Summer. It seems that when a Mormon brags about having 16 million members it just isn't right. Like you said, that doesn't mean the active numbers and I'm just wondering if the church is figuring that since I was baptized they will count it no matter what unless I'm dead. They seem pretty tight lipped about how many are resigning every year and I just don't trust their 16 million claim of members.

No, the 16 million is not accurate, and I cringe every time I see a news outlet accept it without question. Some news outlets have caught on to the shenanigans, and will say something like, "The church claims 16 million members," not, "The church has 16 million members."

a. Beware of any numeric representation that has lots of zeros;

b. Just what's the significance of the (accurate) number of members in the first place?

I think some people get impressed with the 16 million number. But the insignificance of the church really hit home when I worked in China for three years. I was in Chengdu, and according to the wikipedia page, there are over 18 million in the metro area of Chengdu, with about 14.5 million in the administrative area of Chengdu. The entire membership claimed by the church could fit that one city. Just one city, in one country. The entire membership of the church equates to roughly 1% of the entire population of China. And you know what? Most Chinese have never heard of Jesus Christ, let alone the Mormo...oops...I mean LD...oops...THE CHURCH (I think that is acceptable now...). Even if the church was accurate in its claims of 16 million members, it is hardly impressive. In fact I would make the argument that barely even registering on the earth today is evidence that it is not a "true church" of "God".

Why does it matter what their reported membership number is? It is a made-up number. Does the way it is made up really matter?

The purpose of resignation is not to change their statistics, nor is it to force them to be honest. Its purpose is not even to remove/destroy your records, despite their "name removal" euphemism. If any of those are your goal, you will be disappointed.

Its purpose is to terminate your membership. It does that.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/04/2018 02:06PM by Brother Of Jerry.

That isn't my goal.

They count those until you're 110.

"Lies, damned lies, and statistics."

Mark Twain popularized the saying in Chapters from My Autobiography, published in the North American Review in 1906. "Figures often beguile me," he wrote, "particularly when I have the arranging of them myself; in which case the remark attributed to Disraeli would often apply with justice and force: 'There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.'"[2]

"A well-known lawyer, now a judge, once grouped witnesses into three classes: simple liars, damned liars, and experts."

That phrase can be found in Nature, page 74 November 26, 1885: :"A well-known lawyer, now a judge, once grouped witnesses into three classes: simple liars, damned liars, and experts. He did not mean that the expert uttered things which he knew to be untrue, but that by the emphasis which he laid on certain statements, and by what has been defined as a highly cultivated faculty of evasion, the effect was actually worse than if he had." [9]

...what's old is new again.

Translation: "Believe half of what you see, and none of what you hear."

Franklin, Poe, apocryphal, anecdotal............

I don't know what to think.....I look at those pictures of the 116 year old women sitting behind a birthday cake on the news and think - poor gal- if she were mormom someone would have to break the news to her that she died 6 years ago and her Temple Card was revoked and nullified !

See my post on "St. Judas the Traitor 2nd Ward" thread, which I had the pleasure of attending this morning. A gentleman gave a presentation on membership data, taken from:

LDSstatistics.com.

Note 2 "s's" with the LDS. The data is compiled from official TSCC releases. Pay close attention to the data columns in red--very damning (pun intended).

First, the rate of net growth is dropping precipitously. Also, the gentleman pointed out that LDS is extremely self-serving in identifying inactives and even never-actives as members: children dedicated, who were never baptized, are thrown into the statistical soup, along with Jack Mormons and 8-year-olds who were baptized but drifted away.

Conclusion: There is very little First World conversion. Growth is either children born or 3rd World (Brasil especially).And not enough to make a difference.

An appeal to HieTwoKolob: Since we don't see much of you, I gather you're busy. But consider applying your statistical/data skillset to that chart and sharing your conclusions.

I'm sure the MORMON church still claims my soul, just as my wife-beater temple ex-husband and his family still claim me as one of his 3 eternal temple wives, though he beat us all. He claims my children, as his possessions, too, and they have never even met him.

I strongly suspect that the MORMON church claims the souls of newborn babies who are "blessed" in sacrament meetings. They go on the records, do they not? It would be just like them to use innocent babies to "grow the church." Why wait until they're eight, right?

Like Jerry says, we have terminated our membership. Those MORMONS are out of our lives. It's all a hoax, anyway. All lies. So who cares about their fake MORMON rules.

MORMONS, MORMONS, MORMONS.

exminion Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I'm sure the MORMON church still claims my soul,
> just as my wife-beater temple ex-husband and his
> family still claim me as one of his 3 eternal
> temple wives, though he beat us all. He claims my
> children, as his possessions, too, and they have
> never even met him.

As I (not an ex-Mo, BTW) understand it, unless you got an annulement, you're still on the celestial rolls as his wife. That "sealing" means nothing, spiritually or legally, but go get it if it brings you closure.
>
> I strongly suspect that the MORMON church claims
> the souls of newborn babies who are "blessed" in
> sacrament meetings. They go on the records, do
> they not? It would be just like them to use
> innocent babies to "grow the church." Why wait
> until they're eight, right?

According to the presentation I heard today, you're absolutely correct. See my post, above.

"Like Jerry says, we have terminated our membership. Those MORMONS are out of our lives. It's all a hoax, anyway. All lies. So who cares about their fake MORMON rules."

I agree. I'm just curious though if the Mormon church does in fact count even those like me who resigned. Its more of an amusement with me than anything. I know they count all of the inactive, etc. The entertainment value of it for me is that the majority of their 16 million have little or nothing to do with the church. It is an interesting thought to me if they count me too. Do they lie to that extent just to try to make their church look more impressive? I was just having some fun thoughts when I posted this thread.

I was excommunicated 37 years ago. My mom told me last year that I was "still on the rolls" of the cult. The "WTF" look on my face prompted her to make me promise that I wouldn't request removal of my name from the rolls until after she was dead.

HOW can they justify keeping someone whom they excommunicated on their rolls? They're the worst kind of frauds.

...hey, don't freakout. Being left on the Church rolls is the same as making a purchase on a merchandisers web page. You once bought a product from them, and now you are constantly getting hammered with pop-ups, junk mail, and robo calls. It's in their data base, and it will remain there forever. Not that you are a member, or ever want to make another purchase, it's just the way they hold on to a fake market share. They say 15M, based on what?... activity over a 10-20 yr. period? It's just marketing 101.....laugh it off. That's the best remedy.

That 16 mil includes baseball baptisms in which members go inactive almost immediately. If anything counts, it’s not a credible number at all. But that’s characteristic of everything the church puts out publicly.

How many of us here are shocked that the church would tell lies? If they are going to lie about the church's very founding and defvine authority (which has been proven wrong), why would they not lie about your relationship to them after you resign or are excommunicated? That is just one more lie for them. It's the nature of their business.

Its entertaining to me with this membership statistic thing. Suppose they are lying and counting me even after they sent me the final out letter. Then if I mention to a Mormon that their 16 million includes me they will argue that I'm lying. The Mormon church keeps their statistical sources so secret that nobody can verify this matter. It seems to be set up to feed members so much BS that truth seems to be the lie.

...an Atomic Fudgie lie. They know it's BS. Everyone knows it's BS.

https://www.jeancoutu.com/catalogue-images/540861/viewer/0/fudgesicle-barres-glacees-au-fudge-12-x-60-ml.png

lies are true In Heaven. Bart Simpson