Is it because they are lazy? And in order to show leadership they steal to sho "Blessings"?
Is it because they are so uneducated they think theft is o.k?
Is it because of their lack of education they live in constant fear of being their ability to talk to "their" God - joeseph Smith if they don't Pray Pay and Obey?
I'll bet that Mo's are probably the same ratio as any other segment of society as far as dishonesty goes, but having said that, the question is: why aren't they most honest people on Earth?
Having said that, the very first LA TV commercial I ever did was done by a non-union guy and he stiffed me. Yup. Mormon.
A list of just a few of the things about the mormon mindset that could make 'em dishonest:
1.) Lying for the Lord. We are superior.
2.) We have the Restored Gospel™. We are clever. We are superior to Gentiles.
3.) We have a bunch of kids and are broke, but have a big house and a garage full of jet ski's, so...hey, what if those numbers are fudged a bit?
4.) God allows us to be dishonest, and besides we are gods in embryo (see #'s 1 and 2).
5.) Missionaries are out there hustling & trying almost *anything* to make a sale...errr....convert people.
6.) The founders, JS, BY and many others weren't very honest.
agreed with above, majority of people are just as dishonest. there was a Superstore episode on this topic of people being good and honest. the manager, who was a loving Christian who believed people were good. the assistant, an atheist, believed that people are horible and are only held together by social pressures. they have an "amnesty day" where people can confess to management bad things without any reprecussions. it turned out everyone were dishonest thieves who consistently did horrible things.
after 3 years as a criminal defense attorney, i agree with the assistant manager, most people are jerks but are good at hiding it.
seriosly though Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Why are mormons so dishonest? ... > > What gives? Why are Mormons so dishonest?
It's the way they are taught (by their [mis]leaders). Their 'church' isn't true, so why should they be?
Many mormons lie to their bishops in order to receive and keep temple recommends.
For those who served missions, just about everyone lied about their numbers to keep the mission leaders off their backs.
In order to maintain the façade of prosperous, righteous living, and hold onto their standing in the ward, many mormons will lie about their financial situation.
It's all about appearances in mormonism. Avoid the appearance of evil, but show off the appearance of righteousness.
It simply becomes habitual and second nature to them.
> In order to maintain the façade of > prosperous, righteous living, and > hold onto their standing in the ward, > many mormons will lie about their > financial situation ...
...and lie, cheat and steal to improve their financial situation so that people will assume ghawd is blessing them for their righteousness.
And I wonder if some mormons think that if they are 'rich' (no matter how they do it), it means that ghawd is cool with them, else wouldn't he have taught them a lesson?
In a 'prosperity gospel', being prosperous means you and your ghawd are in tune.
To me, the question really is, "Why are Mormons just as dishonest as everyone else."
What really is the point of having God's truth or even believing you have the truth if it doesn't make you a BETTER person than your average non-Mormon?
as a whole are, on average, likely to be more honest in their dealings with other people than the average for general society as a whole. That trusting nature is what makes them attractive targets for scammers and liars...and to some extent explains why you often come across sleazy scam artists (wolves in sheep's clothing) being highly active conducting their business in and among the flock.
an org or an individual doesn't need an expensive PR firm to tell the truth:
Barbara Kingsolver: “The truth needs so little Rehearsal”
The Truth is no longer hidden; now people are hiding from the truth.
We all need to know what it means to be Honest. Honesty is more than not lying. It is truth telling, truth speaking, truth living, and truth loving. James E Faust.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/12/2018 06:01PM by GNPE.
GNPE Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > is your question to everyone or just to me? > > > an org or an individual doesn't need an expensive > PR firm to tell the truth: > > > Barbara Kingsolver: “The truth needs so little > Rehearsal” > > The Truth is no longer hidden; now people are > hiding from the truth. > > We all need to know what it means to be Honest. > Honesty is more than not lying. It is truth > telling, truth speaking, truth living, and truth > loving. James E Faust.
So are you equating Mormonism the organization with the Mormons as individuals?
I don't find Mormons the members to be more or less dishonest than anyone else in my personal dealings. I think the institutional church has much dishonesty and how it presents itself and what its history and doctrine is.
But the title is about the members not the institutional church.
That said, it bears remembering that the institutional church, in many ways, fosters and encourages dishonesty.
Members are encouraged to put on a positive appearance (especially to investigators), whether they're feeling that way or not. They're encouraged to "love bomb" investigators (and wayward apostates), only to ignore them later on. That's dishonest.
Members are encouraged to not talk about certain doctrines or matters of church history -- the excuse is "milk before meat," but that's rank dishonesty.
Members are encouraged to say they "know" things they don't know, and simply believe. That's dishonesty.
It's not dishonest to say what you believe, no matter how ridiculous it is. It IS dishonest to claim that what you believe is the one and only god's-own truth, and that you know that for a fact -- when you haven't got a shred of evidence to back it up.
There are reasons Utah is the scam-MLM capital of the US. There are reasons Utah is the depression-meds-abuse capital of the US. At least one of those reasons is that mormonism is so chock-full of dishonesty that many of its members take dishonesty as "gospel." For some, the mental discord between the church teaching honesty, while encouraging and promoting dishonesty, is too much. For others, the mental discord is ignored, and they happily join in scams taking advantage of others.
There are indeed honest mormons. Some of them are terrific people who'd be welcome in any social circle, and are deep down to their core good, honest, kind people.
I find them to be the exception rather than the rule, sadly. And it's not surprising when you see what their church foists on them.
I think that most Mormons believe themselves to be honest. I also believe that most Mormons feel a level of regret or remorse when they say something that they don't totally believe. However they have been taught that the regret and remorse are there to motivate them to really believe what they are saying. So back to George.
Is it a lie if you want to believe what you are saying?
I think the church organization puts its members into situations that are abnormal and unhealthy; especially with its "worthy" interviews. On one level, the church [used] to brag that the leaders if in tune with the spirit could discern (magically) if a member was being dishonest. Now, try to imagine the power one feels when you can successfully lie through any LDS worthy interview.
The big test is whether you can lie to go through the Lord's house aka the temple and not have the walls collapse on you. I lied about being morally clean before going for my endowment. With all the stories that are circulated about people (pre-internet days) about being driven from the temple because they were impure, liars or tried to defile the temple. So I was scared out my wits that Hurricane strength winds would blow me out or that I would be struck by lightning. But that's what mormons figure out: that lying either keeps the leaders off your back and it helps you acquire wealth.
messygoop Wrote: ------------------------------------------------------- > Now, try to imagine > the power one feels when you can successfully lie > through any LDS worthy interview.
I don't have to imagine...I did it. As a test. The bishop failed. I felt bad about it for a while...then I didn't, because I realized he (and the church) had lied about the magical power of discernment, and I proved it.
> The big test is whether you can lie to go through > the Lord's house aka the temple and not have the > walls collapse on you.
Yeah, I did *that* too. No collapsing walls. I had already left the church, but hadn't told anyone. My brother was getting married in the SLC temple. I didn't have a temple recommend, and I wasn't going to go pretend to believe to get one.
So I went to the wedding anyway. Pretended I'd forgotten my recommend back in Calif. My TBM brother, step-dad, and uncle (who was a church big-wig) all vouched for me, being a recently-returned, entirely-worthy, incapable of deceiving the temple guardian about having a valid recommend young man. And so I got into the belly of the beast by deception one last time. It was ridiculously easy.
Of course, that was before they went all computer-modern and stuff (1981). Which they did, of course, because their power of discernment is a joke, and they know it, so they needed to not "trust" their members, and have technology be the discernment thing. :)
A LDS landlady who lived upstairs from me at the time worked at a shoe store in my hometown. She would tell me about the returned missionaries she worked with who would routinely steal petty cash from the cash register, and that it would constantly come up short.
They pretended to be stalwart Mormons, but stealing what they could on the side to give themselves a 'pay raise.' It frustrated her to no end because the owner didn't hold them accountable or take her seriously when she'd report it.
This is the reason why I would suggest LDS Inc does not have near the money people think.
Mormonism is the world’s guiding light of mortgage, insurance, and securities fraud- yet we never hear of LDS Inc being the victim of embezzlement.
I would guess pallets of LDS money are continously going to un named persons while the masses talk about LDS senior executives having relatively small forgiven loans.
Not to mention, empires are very expensive to run. Utilities and insurance alone on thier real estate empire must be staggering while income must be greatly reduced to members quitting and having fewer children.
Overall, I think mormons do okay as far as day to day honesty. You can trust most of them not to steal your rake, etc.
But, they have been taught that to be honest is to be punished. They go through a series of interviews wherein if they screw up in the least little bit and actually tell the bishop/authority the truth, there is a very good chance they will be punished and possibly humiliated in front of friends and family.
examples:
1. Young men being asked if they have every masturbated. Unless their is something wrong with them, the answer is going to be "Yes". But, if they are foolish enough to say so, then the bishop tells them they are unworthy and need to overcome their sin. They are made to feel very badily about themselves. The alternative is a little white lie.
2. You are asked if you pay your tithing in full. You pay a lot to the church, maybe its only 8%. But, if you say you aren't a full tithe payer, you might as well not have paid anything. Screw it... too much hassle. You don't want to lose your temple recommend,( if you are employed by the church you could lose your job without a rec.) so you say "Yes".
Just two examples, but for every Mormon there are hundreds of little cases like this. They all build up and form a habit. IMO, a mormon can't be in good standing and be completely honest at the same time. No one is perfect.
The most devout TBM's I know are mostly just stubborn, bullheaded, and opinionated to a fault.
And sincerely deluded.
But not outright dishonest. I see the church leaders are more dishonest for perpetuating a fraud, because they have constructed the web of lies so well, they have to be in on it to some degree. But not so much the laypeople..