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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 01:33PM

The point of having hours of small group discussion was participatory spirituality. That need went away with Correlation, which is basically force-feeding doctrine. It’s so boring that the three hour block was a drag. Plus, you can always self-indoctrinate at home. The natural solution to the boredom problem was to let people go home early. Getting rid of Correlation was a non-starter.

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Posted by: moremany ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 01:37PM

Nothing was eliminated. Nothing was ever there to begin with.
It's all about retention. Even devout LDS couldn't make all the meetings without first burning out.

M@t

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 01:39PM

I think it is first and foremost a money saving measure. The Mormon church will save money on heat and lights. Second, as the church shrinks, they will be able to save money be squeezing more wards into one building.

It will also make the membership happier and might help with retention.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 02:36PM

Big things are usually a combination of lots of different motivations. There might be more than these that pushed this to happen.

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Posted by: MarkJ ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 02:44PM

Big things can also be a result of, and producer of, unintentional consequences. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

Regardless, the church takes another step towards being just another denomination that has a a 90 or 120 minute service on Sunday. Conservative organizations often take their cues from what the competition is doing.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 02:52PM

MarkJ Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Regardless, the church takes another step towards
> being just another denomination that has a a 90 or
> 120 minute service on Sunday. Conservative
> organizations often take their cues from what the
> competition is doing.

Regardless, if church takes another step towards being just another denomination their chapels and temples will still sit empty most of the time doing good for no one - living that is.

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Posted by: subeamnotlogedin ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 03:15PM

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is first and foremost a money saving
> measure. The Mormon church will save money on heat
> and lights. Second, as the church shrinks, they
> will be able to save money be squeezing more wards
> into one building.
>
> It will also make the membership happier and might
> help with retention.


They way my cousins make babies the church will not shrink lol.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 11:11PM

I picture the COB held up by ropes.

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Posted by: icanseethelight ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 02:48PM

Follow the money. Always.

Chapels do not provide any measurable ROI. Temples do. There is a finite and ever decreasing amount of funds available.

2 hours = 5 congregations per building, or 4 with no overlap.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 03:02PM

So “perfecting the saints” is just lip service that they don’t really believe. Or their idea of perfection is more like what Lucifer had in mind.

Come to think of it, “redeeming the dead” doesn’t mean much when the names are recycled, and the effectiveness of missionary work has nose dived.

TSCC has no mission other than lining pockets.

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Posted by: icanseethelight ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 03:05PM

The mission is...Hide mismanagement of tithing for as long as they can because when it comes how broke they are out lots of mormons be gone.

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Posted by: olDerelder ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 04:11PM

Correlation preceeded the 3-hour block, which was first created in response to the OPEC oil embargo/shortage in the '70s.

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Posted by: olderelder ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 10:35PM

More specifically, McKay started correlation in the '60s and the 3-hour block began in 1973.

Since the 3-hour block was the church's answer to a temporary market condition, the question is why it continued on past its original purpose.

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Posted by: anono this week ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 04:19PM

3 hours in theory doesn't seem like too much time for one to spend on religion each week if there is no callings. But the problem is more that Bishops have to hold so many meetings before the meetings begin, There was the bishops youth counsel (1hour), the bishop ward leadership committee (1hour), the setting apart meeting right after church(1hr), and of course all the personal interviews(4hrs). Then preside for sacredment meeting and speak quite often, preside in SS and relief society, MIA and Primary.

What would that be? at least 6 hours of non stop meetings without a break and in the afternoon at least another 4 hours.
It's exhausting!

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Posted by: snowball ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 09:17AM

I think exhaustion was one of the reasons that I started to ask myself whether my participation in LDS, Inc. was worth it.

The promised "blessings" just didn't seem to materialize, and my Sundays far from being restful were just another day at work. During my BYU years, there were times when it was much as you described. When I was ward mission leader, I had to attend the Priesthood Executive Committee meeting, ward council, and then 3 hours of church. On top of that was ward prayer, home teaching, preparation of a lesson, and sometimes a fireside or some other event. It was like a full day of work.

But I got the sense that I wasn't growing from any of it. The university classes had introduced me to new ways of thinking and helped me develop new skills. I felt like that helped me grow, but church was stuck at 8th grade level and never seemed to rise above it.

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Posted by: Rubicon ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 10:50AM

snowball Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think exhaustion was one of the reasons that I
> started to ask myself whether my participation in
> LDS, Inc. was worth it.
>
> The promised "blessings" just didn't seem to
> materialize, and my Sundays far from being restful
> were just another day at work. During my BYU
> years, there were times when it was much as you
> described. When I was ward mission leader, I had
> to attend the Priesthood Executive Committee
> meeting, ward council, and then 3 hours of church.
> On top of that was ward prayer, home teaching,
> preparation of a lesson, and sometimes a fireside
> or some other event. It was like a full day of
> work.
>
> But I got the sense that I wasn't growing from any
> of it. The university classes had introduced me to
> new ways of thinking and helped me develop new
> skills. I felt like that helped me grow, but
> church was stuck at 8th grade level and never
> seemed to rise above it.

The church is a chore and a bore. I left because of that and because I thought the Book of Mormon was stupid and the rest of it was stupid as well. About the only thing I enjoyed in the church was the cute girls.

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Posted by: 70s convert ( )
Date: November 19, 2018 10:44PM

When I converted in the 70s, church was twice a day: AM Sunday school and PM sacrament. In between we were allowed to play outside and eat lunch. Attending twice on sunday with a break in between didn't seem as tortuous as the three hour block with no break for eating/playing. Prior to combining all meetings, AP/YW (not sure what they call it now), Relief Society and Primary were held on weekdays and not thrown into the Sunday mix. Many woman loved getting away from home for a good Relief Society meet-up while hubby stayed home and looked after the kids. I loved the Wednesday AP/YW meeting because after the lesson we all played in the gym. It was fun. Holding all meetings on Sunday without a break did not allow for any play time. All fun had been sucked out of church.

The new more structured and very boring correlated lessons allowed for less creativity and therefor did not foster creative discussion. What had previously been somewhat interesting lessons with lively discussions were now dumbed down and incredibly boring. I remember the new relief society lesson manual after correlation. Almost an entire year of lessons focused on the lives of the prophets, starting with Joseph Smith and ending with President Benson, I think. Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were a little interesting, but the rest hadn't done anything remarkable, and the teacher reading verbatim from the lesson manual about their lives was incredibly dull and uninspiring - the most boring lessons I remember.

Three hours of boredom on Sunday was just too much, and I was TBM! I started attending only sacrament meeting, and even that was super boring. I finally stopped attending all together and didn't miss it. I had served in many callings, including a full-time mission, but just couldn't take the boredom anymore.

I think cell phones also contributed to the decision to reduce meeting time. Before cell phones, kids would scribble on the program when they were bored. It was a quiet activity that didn't bother anyone. Adults would just stare blankly ahead, their thoughts elsewhere. That's what I did. Now, with everyone focused on their phones, it is very obvious that NO ONE is paying attention; EVERYONE is bored silly. It must drive the Bishop mad when he looks out onto the congregation and observe that all eyes are on the cell phones.

I think the change to two hours of meetings on Sunday is just the beginning and more is to follow. I really think the church will transition to online meetings, where members can sit at home in front of their flat screen TVs and have weekly lessons from the first presidency, broadcast from Salt Lake City. Ward buildings will be sold because LDS Inc. is greedy for cash. Some buildings will be retained for the occasional gathering of the saints.

See what LDS Inc. is doing? They're slowly changing the corporation with more emphasis on business/making money and less on the religious/churchy/social side. The members will eventually fade away but LDS Inc.'s real estate/business holdings (shopping malls, sky scraper office buildings, condos, apartments, cattle ranches, logging operations, Deseret industries, etc...) will thrive - - and that's all they really care about.

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Posted by: Susan I/S ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 02:15AM

Agree with everything you said Convert. I don't know about the 3-hour block but I DO know that correlation sure as hell sucked all the fun out. And that happened because they sucked all the money out on a local level.

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Posted by: matt ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 03:50AM

They have undertaken marketing surveys and found that the three hour block meetings were unpopular and was a reason why some members stopped bothering to attend.

So they decided to shave an hour off in order to make it more palatable for members.

After all, less active members means less tithing.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 03:51AM

That's my surmise as well.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 01:36PM

Their most creative idea is to reduce the amount of poop on the poop sandwich.

Today’s church is nothing like the early church. The magic is gone. It’s like they just don’t care. TSCC has become an institution that exists only for itself. Maybe that’s what greed gets you. Greed in the name of God comes to this. It’s somewhat of a relief that they only wanted my money. It was nothing personal, just business.

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Posted by: donbagley ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 04:28AM

Internet killed the prophecy star...

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 11:03AM

And der kommissar's correlation killed the retention stats.

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Posted by: GNPE1 ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 12:56PM

Maybe if mormons didn't have to attend church in their uniforms...

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Posted by: Brother Of Jerry ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 05:55PM

Every child born into the church has heard every single theological concept they are ever going to hear in Mormonism by the age of six. From there on out, it is nothing but reruns.

Even two hours of reruns is hard to take. Three hours was making even the sheep rebel.

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Posted by: Healed ( )
Date: November 20, 2018 07:52PM

I’m really skeptical that reducing the Sunday block
from 3 hours to two hours will make any difference in reducing the boring issue. The core thing that hinders the Mormon
Church is its fundamental orientation as a lay church. For example, the opposite of the Mormon Church is a church like the Christian Assembly Church. Cars literally line up to park for these services that are one hour in length. After getting complimentary coffee and donuts in the lobby, parishioners enter the chapel for one hour of music, interjected by an interesting and interactive gospel message, presented by a minister who has a degree in theology. Children and teenagers attend a separate meeting of their own. Everyone goes home after one hour. Could the Mormon Church adopt such an approach of its own? Highly doubtful, because it would then cease to be Mormon.

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