I’ve been out of that scene for a while, but distinctly remember getting the “not crazy” one in my ward, or so I thought.

Is it just me, or does TSCC drive women mad?

Sorry, babylon, it's just you. Single Mormon women are not any crazier than married Mormon women.

Studies show that unmarried women are happier and healthier than married women. Unmarried women are also happier and healthier than married men and unmarried men. Single women also connect more with others, and are more active in the community. Married people, both women and men, tend to be more insular, than the singles.

In my own personal experience, and in the experiences shared with my married and unmarried women friends, what drives women mad is marriage, not single-hood.

I was accused of being crazy, because I went to all four years of BYU, and didn't get married or engaged. I was almost convinced that there was something wrong with me, until I discovered that the Mormon church was really a hoax cult. I had never liked the way that Mormon men think. I did not want to marry a member of a polygamous cult, that demeaned women, that treated women and children like slaves, that did not have Christian values. Some Mormon boys proposed on the third date. All they knew was my physical appearance, and that I came from a fairly wealthy Mormon royalty family. That was enough for them. Love was never in the equation. They wanted someone to finance their education, provide them with a house and car, get them into the celestial kingdom, produce children, promote their church advancements and career. Mormon men wanted their women to be obedient, and to "honor the priesthood." They believe in polygamy in heaven! Whenever I rejected a BYU boy, he would be onto someone else within a week. That's how shallow they were. Most were narcissistic, as well.

Single Mormon women are following their heart, and relying on their gut instinct. Most of them end up leaving the cult, and finding a decent non-Mormon husband, when they are ready for marriage. Some stay single, and are accomplished in their own life and career, and are the happiest, friendliest people I know! Some are closer to their nieces and nephews, than some mothers are to their own children. Some have elderly parents they are taking care of. Some have pets that they love. Most do charity work. They are my favorite people.

Mother Who Knows Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Studies show that unmarried women are happier and
> healthier than married women. Unmarried women are
> also happier and healthier than married men and
> unmarried men.

Really?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/living-single/201701/is-it-true-single-women-and-married-men-do-best

Drunk posting. I get melancholy about the ex. Maybe Mormonism is like a magnet for broken people. It lures them in and messes them up more.

It could be more prevalent these days due to the difficulty of Missionary work.

She was awesome in her own kind of way. Did the church contribute to her suffering? Probably. At least I think so. TSCC is disgusting. It’s like living with a disability.

Seriously, keep Mormonism away from the ones you love.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/24/2018 07:50AM by babyloncansuckit.

Is it true that Mormon women (single and otherwise) drive more men to drink?

A single, young divorcee with little children and starting a career rather than be a SAHM and housewife was looked upon as formidable and threatening by the cult women. I was shunned as an active, TBM because I was a working professional supporting my children. My branch president told me I had no right to live in NYC when my extended family was out west. He demanded I move to Utah to live near my brother who recently died, so I'd have a family priesthood leader nearby. My brother was putting himself through BYU at the time with a wife and children, while earning his doctorate. I was no more his responsibility than I was the man in the moon's! I scoffed at the branch president and told him I had as much right to live and work in New York as he did. Within months he got fired from his job, was forced to sell his home and move away. He left for Utah. I've held onto the same job since I moved to New York going on nearly 30 years. At some point he came back to visit the branch and I asked him after being able to support myself and my children for some years was he wrong about his prior 'decree' when he insisted I had no right to live there? He said he still stuck by that, stubborn old fool that he was.

His pronouncement upon me was his own verdict. As for being my patriarchal leader, that's when I cried foul!

The women left my children out of the Christmas program our last X-mas there, because I worked and was a single mom. How's that for Christian love? I led its music for five years while we went there, barely missing a Sunday because of my calling even with my babies in tow. Paid my tithing from a modest salary they sucked dry. Never got a thing in return from that beast of a cult religion except my freedom once I realized it was all a sham.

One of the next churches where we went for a time was Moravian. My children were honored to be involved in every single event planned for kids. My son was Joseph in its X-mas pageant. My daughter also had a stage role in the same play. That was a church who practiced what it preached. We would've stayed Moravian except the closest to us after moving upstate was either Cornell or Toronto. Either was too far to travel on a weekly basis.

Mormon is almost a derivative of Moravian. The Moravian church was here on the east coast when Joe got his brain fart to start the Mormon religion. The founder of the Moravian died as a martyr to his faith more on par with Paul the apostle. Whereas Joe got busted for breaking every law on the book and being a law unto himself. It is possible Joe who plagiarized nearly everything he wrote down started with "Mor," and then stuck a "mon" at the end for variation of Moravian.

Mormonism tends to split one's personality.

Who you believe you are supposed to be is duking it out with who you actually are. Mormon brain vs Autonomous brain? You can't develop a personality that is bound and gagged with obedience. For this reason, Jesus or somebody said you can't serve two masters . . . cuz it'll maketh thee crazy!

I liked Mother Who Knows point of view of the dating scene at BYU. I saw the other side of the coin. I would love to make a music video with Joplin singing Jesus Wants Me for a Sunbeam with glassy eyed Zombie BYU girls all dressed up, plates of cookies and brownies in hand, stalking RM after RM after RM on the BYU campus. Also they all had a copy of Fascinating Womanhood under their arm when I was at the Y back in the Dark Ages.

Stereotyping is fun no? Anyway, I do think Mormonism stunts our personalities. The good news is they can be un-stunted. Never too late. Well sometimes it is too late isn't it. I'm still in the process.

I get why you have the deep feelings still about your ex. It's hard. Also I don't know about crazy, but we were playing a game with some cards missing from our hand. You can't win even hand after hand so you have to leave the table and that means you have to leave your ante there as well, or spouse, or a family.

Your posts are so often amusing and clever as well as making a good point, Babylon . Were you this much fun as a Mormon?

Well no, I was never this much fun as a Mormon. I didn’t really like myself because I was never enough. Maybe a lot of people are in the same boat. It seems silly now, the Mormon culture making me feel like I always needed to do more. What is the gerontocracy doing, besides maintaining the charade and accomplishing a whole lot of nothing? Spoiler alert: You were always enough.

I talked to the ex this week. She is slowly dying but can’t let go of the thought patterns that are killing her. There’s no getting through, but at least she has her ward. Still a trooper, teaching me about human nature until the end. We had a good run. I wouldn’t trade it for anything. The whole Mormon mind screw, I wouldn’t trade that either.

My life is pretty special. I just didn’t know it. I really couldn’t see it from within the Mormon box.

Babylon is brilliant. He's fun, witty, empathetic, and with unique insights no TBM could really begin to appreciate because they're out of his depth.

Being fun is only the tip of the iceberg for Babylon. He's much deeper and darker than even he's willing to admit.

Babylon, you know we love you guy!

:)

I'm sure there are the same number of crazy single Mormon men. An acquaintance of mine was a single ward bishop in SLC. He said there were a number of he would characterize as emotionally unstable.

I knew quite a few crazy married people in TSCC. Male and female.

Does that count, babylon?

The church seemed to bring out their worst character flaws time and again.

(To be fair, I also knew some level headed folks, married and single. But face it, to be single in TSCC is a liability.)

I think the religion has a very very high standard. Women today are already conflicted about this new feminist world where they are suppose to be as driven for success as men, where women are suppose to know as much, be as smart, be as successful, make as much as men, be as tough. They are suppose to have a career they love, with plenty of money, and live in the big city, being independent.

Now mix all this up with the polar construct called "Hypergammy" which has been going on since at least the time of Jane Austen's beloved novels. The feminine sensibilities, and damsel in distress, she is also suppose to emit to only handsome young guys (not dirty old men, or those less endowed). The quest for the young perfect man (tall dark and handsome) who is white collar, or at least a man who is just as good as she is, and the pickings start get slimmer.

And on top of all that throw in Mormism's even bigger emphasis on being practically perfect in every way, and mormon Hypergammy (which is at least 10 times greater). And no wonder mormon single woman may develop a little craziness.

Wendy was crazy before she married Russ and she’s still crazy now. They just doubled down on crazy getting married. Take your vitamins and get some rest because we are planning even more crazy ideas.

The problem is that no matter what they do, now matter how successful they are, in mormonism they are considered failures. Something is wrong with them. Believe me, I got treated that way, as did all the girls in the singles' ward I was in.

Yes, there were those crazy ones, but few and far between. Some of the brightest were in the singles wards. My daughter just turned 33 on the 21st of November. She is engaged to be married in January. She is marrying a great guy. I know him and his family. They live 2 blocks away. BUT would she get married if she wasn't TBM? I just don't know. She works for Princess Cruises in Alaska 7 or 8 months a year. They want her full time. She earns well and has great benefits. She is on a cruise to Australia right now. It cost her $250 and her flight. She has traveled all over the world. She has built a career for herself there, but now if she marries (he works there, too), they both are trying to find careers here in Cache Valley. She has a degree. He doesn't.

There are so many more single mormon women than there were even when I was younger. Like I said, they are the brightest. I only got married because I thought it was what I should do and I wanted to be a mom and have a husband. I was wrong. I now have a boyfriend and he is 65 and I"m 61 (I could have married him at age 20, but he wasn't mormon). I'll never marry again. I would if we had kids together, but that ship has sailed!!!!

I know many of the girls that my daughter does who have not gotten married and they are in their 30s. They have their own homes. They have good careers and earn good money. They travel a lot. Drive nice cars, etc. BUT they'll be forever on the outside looking in. They'll never belong. It is very painful. I thought getting married at 27 was bad. And, no most of them don't leave the church and marry nonmormons.

babyloncansuckit Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I’ve been out of that scene for a while, but distinctly remember getting the “not crazy” one in my ward, or so I thought.
>
> Is it just me, or does TSCC drive women mad?

What do you mean you got her [the "not 'crazy' one"]?
And what do you mean you thought? She "turned" crazy?
You didn't get her or she's still crazy, or crazier?
What is that saying about you, her, or women in general?
Your wife [or once girlfriend/ lover] is still single?
You drove her crazy once and forgot how you got there?
So you are saying since your LDS woman was mad, they all are?
All women or just LDS women? There are a few distinctions.

Men drive women crazy! In nice cars sometimes. In mean ones, otherwise. Sometimes on horses. Sometimes on their nonsense.

It IS just you... AND MEN drive women crazy, they drive themselves crazy too, tscc drives them insanely CRAZY, on one wheel (for sure!), and life (around them) might do it too. We don't really know. It might be just you. We are still testing.

I drive them crazy too (so don't feel too bad/ good)... and sometimes back, in better - or worse - shape than when they left.

Did you like her? Ask her? Maybe that's it.
What's she got or [to] say about it [tscc]?


M@t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/26/2018 04:28AM by moremany.

Hello, I joined the cult around a year ago and have decided to quit for good. I am a professionally employed female and I have never felt so devalued.

Also I do think the single men set out to drive us new converts crazy.

There was a very handsome and well-spoken single man there who flirted madly with me and I fell for him.

When asking about him, I was told he has married multiple times but each marriage was annulled due to not having sex.

So its a mystery to me, why flirt up us women if you can't/won't do anything about a relationship?

I have never seen anything like that except in this church with its weird emphasis on not having sex unless married.

Plus, he turned out to be the cruelest man I've ever met, stopped talking to me altogether, that was how he 'broke up' with me. I am a very attractive lady and have lots of interest from men, for me knowing a Mormon man was a disaster.

So, yes, I think it did drive me crazy and I am done.

Welcome to RfM, and back to the real world, Mel.

:)

Amyjo, thank you for your welcome!

It is very nice to be on this board as opposed to TSCC where I was never wanted nor valued, being a single woman.

Thank you for your interesting insight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/27/2018 02:10PM by mel.

"... I do think the single men set out to drive us new converts crazy."

I think LDS men have 'problems' "handling" equally-superior attractive-powerful women in great part due to their 'leasthood' [powerlessness] 'down-bringing'.

Sorry, I didn't 'set out' (on the right foot, but it wasn't the wrong one either) but I was a new convert also, at the time, and certainly ignorant, ESPECIALLY of the True History - and EXPECTATIONS - and beliefs of Mormonism, at age eight. But then, suddenly, I was a teenager (when I [initially] left socially, mentally, morally, etc.) and NEVER brought anyone to church, bought into or talked about it, or even drove, at that age. As a once single [LDS: 20+ years away/ 'inactive'] adult, I went to ONE "activity". I swore then and there I would NEVER involve myself with an active, or even believing, LDS woman (even if attractive, like the devil), even though I already knew I wouldn't. It was the dullest bs I had ever seen [single mormons, trying to/ not to 'hook-up']. "Saints" acting like idiots! Later that year-winter, I resigned. I'd been learning here and there, and observing the "saints" for about a year and a half by then, and had learned enough, and had enough.

So, for me, it has always the values, and focus, of time and energy, and creative interests and sovereignty and personality, more than worshiping a shape-shifting shadow of an immoral, unsaintly, and unholy ghost.


But then I never really held the priesthood.
I was busy holding other thoughts and things.

Calling a teenager a "Teacher" doesn't really help.
I wasn't Mormon for thirty years-went to the old 'church'.
Talked down to a bishop. He said, "oh, you are STILL a 'teacher'"

I HAD NEVER "advanced" in the 'church's/ his [tiny] eyes.
(Song on the radio sang "eyes" as I wrote 'eyes'-anyway)

Like a woman. Like a child. Like HELL, I thought.
I'd LOVE to be a teacher. NOW, I know enough.
Forget a boy at 14. Conditioning.
Glad I didn't get too much of that.
It'll make your hair go flat.
Not to mention your tires.
I'm tired. "Post crashing"!

M@t



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/28/2018 12:32AM by moremany.

As a singles ward survivor I think I have some good insight into this. First, after a certain age if you're not married there is the stigma that there is something not quite right with you. Despite that, I saw way to many women whose total self worth was just to get married and start popping out the babies. That was it. Practically any functional male would do. Oh sure, there was some guys who were so dysfunctional that all women would avoid, but the bar wasn't really set that high.

I would have women calling me or my roomates late at night claiming there were sounds on their roof. Please come over and check it out. Or, I'm sick and in need of a blessing (at 2 AM). Please come over quick and do that. Or my personal favorite, I feel an evil presence, please come over as I don't want to be alone and I need a blessing. I would say that EASILY half of the women in the singles wards I was in were batshit crazy. The other half were normal and sane and thank god for them.

Now since I told want to sound like a misogynistic pig I will happily point out that the men weren't any better. We were all damaged in our own way. Some were divorced ( I had one divorced roomate who was a total dick and I could understand why is marriage failed), some were socially crippled, some, like myself, were commitment-phobic, some were deeply closeted gays and every single damn one of us jerked off whether we admitted it or not.

Male or Female, existence in an LDS singles ward had only one purpose: marriage. It was something that permeated every freaking Sunday service and every activity. Looking back on it I really believe that most of us were probably mental cases dealing with the pressures demanded on us from our religion and our obsession with marriage and/or sex.

Bamboozled,

There is no singles ward in my state, there is just one ward with a bunch of single women with kids, most in their 30's and 40's, mostly very overweight, and a few like me, no kids, attractive and slender, and a 19-yr-old girl with whom all guys flirt.

There are only two single guys in my ward, one is mid-thirties and trying to date the 19-yr-old, and the 50 year old one who flirted and emailed me long personal emails for a year but never asked me out, then dropped me when I started liking him.

It did seem like guys were paranoid about women chasing them, from your stories I can see why.

Bamboozled, did you ever marry, and if not, how did you resist the pressure to do so?

This is all very interesting to me!!! Thank you!!!

mel,

Not sure you'll see this. Sorry it took so long to reply. Yes, I did eventually marry but I did it on my own terms, not because I was given some arbitrary date to due it by. I eventually moved to a city that didn't have a singles ward (Thank God) and became a stake singles rep - which was actually kinda of fun as I got to pretty much decide on the activities we'd have. And I was lucky in that our stake presidency sort of ignored us. That has changed now but in the 90's they gave us a lot of leeway.

In hindsight, if I had it to do all over again i'd just go inactive. The singles wards are mental wards.

Babylon:

Your words: "Mormonism is like a magnet for broken people. It lures them in and messes them up more."

True for me!!!

I was a little lonely and thinking maybe a church, with nice people and fun activities, would be good in my life.

After regularly attending and being baptized, during this year I met no one to be friends with, was jerked around by a guy, and am out a lot of money.

So, yes, I feel like the year messed me up more, and I am now DONE!!!

Bamboozled,

Thanks for the reply and info. Very interesting, and glad that you found happiness on your own terms.

'for the most part', ha ha

to me, there's little doubt that there's a difference between men & women, the way emotions & 'thinking' are processed.

exceptions, Of Course.

but culture of Mormonism isn't without its effects, some intentional, some not.

go ahead, Stone Me.

Hi Mel,
So glad you are out!! Congrat!
I have had MANY experiences with singles wards and also LDS Stake Singles Groups. Yes, there are a lot of lonely people. In most cases, there are lots more women than men attending the firesides or activities.

There is very large rate of INACTIVITY among LDS singles. For example, in 2013, in the West Spokane, WA Stake, there were 573 single adults on the membership rolls. Only 67 of them were active in the Church, and only 12 regularly attended any singles activities! Amazing.

When they held the "singles dances" monthly, a few more would come out, but mainly singles from other stakes and wards would pop in to the dance to "check out" and see if there were any attractive women/men. If not, they would leave early...

Hi Myth,

How funny, popping in, yet leaving early: "nothing to see here!"

And the number of single adults versus those attending....how sad that churches and other organizations do such a poor job of welcoming singles, when I think statistically around half of households are singletons.

Which leaves us to the wild west of online dating, mostly.

GNPE, I agree that there are effects of the culture, emotionally, as a single woman, I felt intimidated, unvalued, unwelcome at times, ignorant, and out of place generally.

Hi again Mel....yes that is so true!
Also a very interesting thing (I experienced this) is as a single adult man, when you attend Sacrament Mtg, where do you sit?? Nearly everyone else is with their spouse and kids. I gave me as very awkward feeling.....and people look around & see me, and wonder what MUST be wrong with this middle aged single man? Very uncomfortable, to say the least!

In my ward 80 singles
December singles activity 5 female 3 male

Hahahahahahaha...!!!

Yep. I've "left early" many a Mormon Single's Dance. I used to enjoy the Young Adult Dances, because for SURE you'd see at least a few "lookers". But...Single's Dances??? Oh my! If a "looker" ever showed up (which was rare) she'd be immediately SWAMPED by 10 men, some good looking but most not, and she'd dance with the Don Juan the entire night. Done!

I've seen attractive men, and women, RUN OUT of Single's Dances. I never ran...just walked out really fast.



mythb4meat Wrote:

> When they held the "singles dances" monthly, a few
> more would come out, but mainly singles from other
> stakes and wards would pop in to the dance to
> "check out" and see if there were any attractive
> women/men. If not, they would leave early...

Rusty, my reply is below, sorry, made a mistake.
Mel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2018 10:35AM by mel.

Reply to Myth is below.....sorry, mistaken placement
Mel



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2018 10:38AM by mel.

I always thought it was funny that the church seems to believe in marriage but made no effort to facilitate singles except by these starched formal 'activities.'



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2018 10:44AM by mel.

Hi Myth,

OMG you had the same problem at Sacrament as me!!!

Yes, all those groups of people....and then here you are alone...

First I sat with the Missionaries, then after Baptism I sat with a married lady and her husband and kids....then she stopped coming regularly and there I was sitting with her husband...

so I didn't like that! So found another married lady, and SHE also stopped coming! So then I moved again!

I tried sitting in the front and the feeling of all those eyes behind me, wondering why an attractive lady such as myself was here alone....

ARGHH! Yes, Sacrament for Singles is just awful!!!

Yes, so true! I am a piano player (part time at restaurants & hotels for many years) and often they asked me to play a special musical number. So I would take a hymn, and kind of spruce it up a bit with beautiful Chords, and play it slow and worshipful. So they loved that, and I got a lot of attention and praise for my music. But still, I always wondered what bad thoughts were in their minds about me, regarding WHY I am single and what MUST be wrong with me! Crazy stuff!

Wow that is cool you play the piano!

I heard a song in a fireside "Far Far Away on Judea's Plain" that a kid played "spruced up" probably as you do, and it was great. I had never heard the song before and I checked out some versions on youtube after that.

I wonder if the members assume you are gay?

I talked to one 30-year-old single member and he said older women regularly suggested he ask this person or that person out. He said it was like a hotline, trying to get him married.

I'm sure he felt a lot of pressure or was made uncomfortable by it.

Yeah, it's possible some may have wondered if I am gay. Perish the thought, I look very masculine and am glad I'm extremely heterosexual! And very happy I never married a Mormon!

Anyway, welcome to this site, Mel. You will find tons of people who can relate to your situation, and who honestly have care and concern for you! And if you ever want advice or a good listener on social issues, etc, there is a female on here named "Summer". I think she is a school teacher in Maryland or close to there. She probably has MORE common sense and smarts than anyone I have heard. I have never met her, but she seems like a wonderful, caring person.

It is nice to meet you!
Bill....

I agree about Summer. There are a few others here who are awesome in that regard, but she defines the upper range.

I mentally and ideologically exited THE (MORmON) church a little over 20 years ago. I went to my class reunion last summer. My high school was quite small compared to most across the nation, even though typical in size for the very rural area it operated in, of a rural western state. Not Utah. My hometown was adjacent to Hooterville. My home town was small, So my class was small too. Only about 60 people. Around about 1/3 of the local population was MORmON, same with my class mates. Only 12 Of us attended the reunion.


Our Senior class President was a MORmON. He did not come to the class reunion, and he is the kind of person who would normally really enjoy (LOVE LOVE LOVE) being in charge, just as he did in the past. He'd normally LOVE to re assume that position of power of his from the past and to use his position of power to brag about his more current professional accomplishments, AS IF being top dog is something that he is ALWAYS entitled to and it is something that he is NOT able to avoid because his magnanimous nature always drags him to the top of any situation ....... but just as noteworthy, our class "king" did not bother to show up to bask in all of that self appointed well deserved glory.

I was the only person affiliated with MORmONISM, however formerly, who came to our class reunion.

The people who did come were mostly a core of NON LDS females who were good friends through out school. Looking back at them and looking at them again more currently, I am compelled to say: what a damn fine group of women. Really Good, really decent, really intelligent, salt of the earth women, you know the kind of people that MORmONISM would LOVE to claim as their own, but can NOT!!! Most of all these women totally LACK the pretentiousness that is so prevalent, and that is SO Unavoidable in MORmON women, even the pretentiousness as in PHONINESS, that MORmON women are always attempting to down play even as they attempt to falsely play up their genuineness in order to carry own their own nasty little campaigns of attempted social climbing with in THE (MORmON) church .....and in the community ........ just like the (disgusting) MORmON male priestDUD holders do, just as the MORmON church tells them to do, to promote THE image of THE (MORmON) church.

Funny thing, Several decades down the road, the MORmONS of our class -the people who were designated by the MORmON church and by them selves to be a BIG cut above all the other much lesser "NON members", are not doing so well. The extra special MORmONS of my class ( myself included) have just as many ....or more divorces than the NON temple married non members. (GASP !!!) as life is kicking in MORmON asses even more handily than asses of non MORmON gospel blessed "non members" ......that sure as Hell wasn't the result that had been hoped for or promised as we MORmONS spent so much time and effort and energy and MONEY attending MORmON meetings at the local MORmON ward house/ meeting house. Since my terminally flawed (largely due to MORmON influences) MORmON temple (secret handshake) marriage was eventually going to implode anyway, I could have just laid in bed to get some badly needed rest for another hour and half instead of busting my teen age ass to get up to go to early morning MORmON seminary to listen to the endless stream of far worse than worthless LS$ Inc pro MORmON BS propaganda being presented there.

After my divorce, I attended LDS singles dances for something to do, largely because they were such a prominent aspect of the singles scene where I was living in Zion Utah. I concede right now, I am the type of person who can enjoy walking through real (automotive) wrecking yards, looking at the aftermath specimens of various wrecks / car collisions. The LDS singles dances are very much the same thing !!!! except in a human / MORmON cultural context/ form. ........the stories I could tell from the (crazy) things I have seen and heard !!!!!!! I could easily come up with enough material to scribe three times the volume of the supposedly incredible and supposedly un surpassable Book of MORmON ! and it damn sure would be more interesting than the POS Book of MORmON ......but that would not be hard to do.

Are MORmON single women crazy ? Yes! ....just like the ones who are still married, because MORmONISM is MENTAL ILLNESS !!!

Thanks for the comments, SMIRK! Nice story! And yes I agree, Mormonism is mental illness for sure...

females are more intelligent and have better instincts than males. problems they have are caused by religion.

god made man in his own corporate image.
man- a servant, or an attendant for the male sex.
woman- female servant belonging to man or mankind.
men- are apt to forget the benefactor, (mother earth), and riot over the benefit.

feel free to email for more quotes.

females are more intelligent and have better instincts than males. religion is the cause for problems.

god made man in his own corporate image.
man- a servant, or an attendant for the male sex.
woman- female servant belonging to man or mankind.
men- are apt to forget the benefactor, (mother earth), and riot over the benefit.

they must find it difficult..those who believe authority is truth rather than truth as authority. truth is love, love is truth.

Rusty,

I am laughing at your observations of the Mormon Singles dances!I am so proud of you for only 'walking out really fast' and not running!

I think, when the only attractive lady dances only with the one attractive male, that is just illustrating their narcissistic lack of empathy. How mean not to give other guys a chance.

The biggest (ha) problem I see here in the South is that so many women let themselves get *so* large...and the monthly potluck after chapel services just adds to it---if it were me directing the activities they would instead require a brisk walk!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/14/2018 10:36AM by mel.

Hi Myth,

Thanks very much for your tips and yes, I am already finding Summer and many others here to be the best community I could hope for.

So I guess since Mormonism and leaving it have brought me here, I DID find the community I was looking for...not in the church, but consisting of church leavers!

Better conversations and thoughts here than I had in over a year of attending the Church.

Very nice to meet you, Bill!

Melanie

Smirk,

quote "Since my terminally flawed temple marriage was eventually going to implode anyway"

I wonder if anyone has ever looked at the rate of divorce of Mormons compared to others similar in age/geographic area.

It would be interesting to know if they actually break up quicker despite all the praying!

quote "I could have just laid in bed to get some badly needed rest for another hour and half instead of busting my teen age ass to get up to go to early morning MORmON seminary"

Yes, and you would have learned more and been smarter according to the new experiment in Seattle public high schools of starting classes at 8:45 am instead of 7:45 am, test scores went up!

quote "........the stories I could tell from the things I have seen and heard !!!!!!! "


Oooh. Do tell. Sounds good!!!

Thanks Smirk!

I attended LDS Single's Dances from 1989 until 2014. How many years is that? I attended them in Washington State, Oregon, Northern California, Southern California, Utah (from Ogden in the north to Provo in the South), and Mesa Arizona. I even attended one in Boise, Idaho. My observations:

1) "Attractive ladies" were few, very few, and very very far between unless you could call a "sweet spirit" to be "attractive" (and sweet spirits do).

2) If there was a Don Juan/Alpha Male at the dance, and there always was, and if there was a "sexy" lady at the dance, the two always found each other, and once they found each other, they could NOT be separated.

The ONLY "dance" that was Mormon related, that I went to, where the attractive women outnumbered the attractive men, was a private "house dance" at a huge home in Manhattan Beach, California, just south of the LAX, in a fancy-pantsy neighborhood, that I attended maybe 3 times. These dances were held only once a year. I "think" they were New Year's Eve dances. Pretty sure. Yes, many of the women were GORGEOUS, and they always, without fail, came with their rich NON-mormon boyfriends. Always. Never failed.

The plane janes and "sweet spirits" came to the dance with other plane janes and sweet spirits, and left with those same plane janes and sweet spirits. The "sexy" Mormon women came to the dance with their rich Gentile boyfriends, driving porches and lamborginis, and Mercedes, and they LEFT with those same men.

The only Mormon dances where the attractive women outnumbered the attractive men were Young Adult Dances. I was a LDS Single's Dance "fanatic" and I've been to more of them than I think anybody else, and NO!!!! Your observations do NOT correspond with something we call "REALITY" (unless, of course, you would call "attractive women" those who have "sweet spirits" but MOST men would not call "attractive").



mel Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Rusty,
>
> I am laughing at your observations of the Mormon
> Singles dances!I am so proud of you for only
> 'walking out really fast' and not running!
>
> I think, when the only attractive lady dances only
> with the one attractive male, that is just
> illustrating their narcissistic lack of empathy.
> How mean not to give other guys a chance.
>
> The biggest (ha) problem I see here in the South
> is that so many women let themselves get *so*
> large...and the monthly potluck after chapel
> services just adds to it---if it were me directing
> the activities they would instead require a brisk
> walk!

happyness can only be found in one's mind.
have to clear your mind from all negitive thoughts.

heal your body by drinking only good water, raw cider vinegar and drop of peppermint oil.
eat only organic, meat- fish once a week.

mother nature has the best education, entertainment and support, (income).

natives seeking to do no harm require no government.
we have been enslaved by words.
all life comes from mother earth and returns to her, our spirits travel the universe.

life is a dream, follow your dreams and you will forever be young and happy.

Hi, an occasional lurker, here. Have been out of TSC a long time but occasionally return to the "boards" to catch up on the latest.

Most of us on here probably have old sore spots. Some of the comments on this thread unexpectedly triggered a big one for me. (Rarely happens anymore!)

I have never considered myself a feminist but it always felt very unequal. The entire time growing up in Primary & Mutual the boys got to go out and do fun things (like build & sail boats) while more often than not we were trapped inside learning how to cook & sew. I remember going to school dances, or private party dances and dancing most of the time then going to church youth dances were the ratio was literally about 30 girls to 1 boy. Most of the boys seemed to have girl friends. I was reasonably attractive but would sometimes go home in tears without having danced at all wondering what was wrong with me.

Later, in singles wards there were talks by members of the bishopric on how the women needed to lose weight and make themselves more attractive. Strangely enough, I never heard the same advice applied to the men although many of them could have benefited from it. Most of the advice directed at the men seemed to do with "marrying up".

I remember members of the Bishopric trying to pressure my friends and I into dating guys we were not the least bit attracted to. Sometimes that included "blessings" given that nudged us in that direction.

I recall conversations with men complaining about how few "attractive" women there were in the ward/at the activity, etc. The funny thing was most of those men were not exactly model material themselves. They didn't necessarily have the best table manors or personal hygiene, either.

Once one of my “Home Teachers” (who was probably 20 years older) showed up alone & unexpectedly on my doorstep on Christmas Eve and asked me to rub medicine on the sores on his back.

A few of the men that had a hard time getting dates developed a reputation for waiting until Ward Temple Night when everyone was in the Celestial Room to corner the woman they wanted to ask out.

The singles wards had their little quirks but they were nothing like getting tossed into the older singles at the ripe old age of 30. (I was slender, athletic and reasonably attractive as were several of my friends). Our experience in life up to that point had done little to prepare us to deal with men who were mostly 10-40 years older many of which were abusive and/or manipulative. There seemed to be very few men that had a steady job and a vehicle. Many of them had been married quite a few times. There also seemed to be a higher than normal percentage of them with serious mental or emotional problems.

Some "choice” experiences:
-Guys attempting to grill me on the first dance about my sexual preferences. (They said they didn't want to waste time getting to know someone they were not compatible with.)
-Dancing with guys with horrible breath and body odor.
-Bruises on my wrists & shoulders from (considerably older)men who "would not take no for an answer" when we were out on the dance floor or in the hall near the refreshments.
-Guy suddenly starts shouting and makes a big scene because I turned down a date with him. (Happened with more than one guy).
-Guy asks me to dance, then drags me to the other side of the dance floor and points out the Ex-Wife dancing nearby. Says he wanted her to see him dancing with someone younger and more attractive than her.
-Listening to really bad pickup lines all evening.

Friends & other women told of similar experiences.

Did end up dating several men from those activities but it was a bit like finding a needle in a haystack! That was many years ago but doubt it's changed much.

Methinks the single LDS women get to deal with as much "crazy" as the men!

Having grown up in a NON-LDS majority state it always surprises me to hear Mormons (and sometimes Ex Mo's) label certain women as a "Sweet Spirit", "Plain Jane" "Walrus" and so on. Most of the guys I went to school with and worked with/have been friends with in "NON-LDS states" sort of grew out of that during adolescence. They may not date women who are "not their type" but they don't seem to feel the need to avoid them like the plague or call them names, either. I think most of them were even more accepting during adolescence then those in the LDS culture. It's like it personally offends many people in that culture to have to look at someone that does not fit into their idea of what someone should look like. This standard seems to mostly apply to single women.

To those who like to stop by an activity only to see how many "fabulous" and "attractive" people are there: Some of the most "attractive" men I have gone out with turned out to be the biggest & most shallow jerks and some of the ones I had not really noticed before turned out to be more attractive to me once I got to know them. Most of the Alpha "Don Juan" type I have met at dances have not been much fun to spend time with-too wrapped up in themselves. Hear similar stories from others so don't think it's just me.

Sorry for the rant! Like I said, this thread triggered some old feelings! It has always seemed to me to be a huge double standard in a lot of ways when it comes to single men & women in the LDS (and sometimes EX-LDS) culture.

Useful insights. Thank you.

Dear No Name Yet,

Sounds like a lot of guys were attracted to you. That's "rare" in the over 31 LDS single's scene (I mean, attractive women are rare). Perhaps that is why the older men grabbed onto you and wouldn't let you live without you kicking them in the B&&&S and then running into the ladies room.

Yes, at the LDS Single's Dances and Activities, you're gonna find three types of males:

*Divorced adulterers
*Divorced bullies
*Never married men who never married because they were...
a) gay
b) mentally ill
c) chronic illness (like M.S., etc.)
d) dysfuctional due to accident or war (i.e. legs blown off, brain damage, etc.)
e) born mentally defective
f) unalterably unattractive via deformity and/or obesity

I fell into the "c" category, which is why I never married and why I spent from 1989 until 2014 going to LDS Singles Dances and activities.

Those are the "available males". Yes, the Don Juans have NO PROBLEM dating, and I see they've dated you too.

I'm surprised that you heard bishops telling the women to "lose weight". He could get into trouble with that, because so many skinny Mormon women think "they're fat" and if they heard that, their bolemia and/or anorexia would explode and some of them would die of starvation. It is true that MOST single LDS women who attend LDS Single's Activities are significantly overweight, but one has to watch what you say because some already-super-thin Mormon women WILL kill themselves by not eating anything "if" they heard a Bishop tell the women to lose weight.

I've heard LDS men refer to some women as "heifers" and "cows" and "put out to pasture". Never heard the "walrus" thing. We had an exceptionally overweight Sister missionary on my mission that the other Elders called "Sister Jaba" (after "Jaba the Hut" in Star Wars). All those good Elders who called her that (behind her back) later married attractive Mormon girls in the Temple. I never called her any names behind her back, and i never married.

The entire "Mid-Singles" thing was created because of the old men chasing, grabbing, touching the sexy much younger Mormon ladies at the dances and activities. Not all this "grabbing" is unwanted. I had a 37 year old BYU grad roommate who attended a Young Adult Ward (unauthorized because of his age), and he used to "grab a handful" every Sunday right after Church. He would walk up behind a sexy Mormon girl and GRAB one of her butt cheeks: HARD! She's SCREAM, turn around, notice it was HIM (he was a Don Juan), and then smile and GIVE HIM A HUG!!!

He was the most popular "guy" in the Ward with the ladies, including the 18 and 19 year olds, by FAR.

So, yes, interesting commentary. You ought to write a book, or at least a blog, on your experiences in the "LDS Singles' Scene".

......................................................
"No Name Yet" wrote:

Some "choice” experiences:

-Guys attempting to grill me on the first dance about my sexual preferences. (They said they didn't want to waste time getting to know someone they were not compatible with.)
-Dancing with guys with horrible breath and body odor.
-Bruises on my wrists & shoulders from (considerably older)men who "would not take no for an answer" when we were out on the dance floor or in the hall near the refreshments.
-Guy suddenly starts shouting and makes a big scene because I turned down a date with him. (Happened with more than one guy).
-Guy asks me to dance, then drags me to the other side of the dance floor and points out the Ex-Wife dancing nearby. Says he wanted her to see him dancing with someone younger and more attractive than her.
-Listening to really bad pickup lines all evening.

Friends & other women told of similar experiences.

Did end up dating several men from those activities but it was a bit like finding a needle in a haystack! That was many years ago but doubt it's changed much.

Methinks the single LDS women get to deal with as much "crazy" as the men!

Having grown up in a NON-LDS majority state it always surprises me to hear Mormons (and sometimes Ex Mo's) label certain women as a "Sweet Spirit", "Plain Jane" "Walrus" and so on. Most of the guys I went to school with and worked with/have been friends with in "NON-LDS states" sort of grew out of that during adolescence. They may not date women who are "not their type" but they don't seem to feel the need to avoid them like the plague or call them names, either. I think most of them were even more accepting during adolescence then those in the LDS culture. It's like it personally offends many people in that culture to have to look at someone that does not fit into their idea of what someone should look like. This standard seems to mostly apply to single women."

have studied many native cultures, the best one's are where the females are recognized as having more intelligence and having better instincts than males. me ex sent me daugther to live with me when she was fourteen. first thing me told her- males think about sex every seven seconds, rest of the time trying to one-up each other. judge them on how they threat there mother.

retired catholic priest july 4, 1985, stated that the bible was written by man, for man to control man.

Can you specify which cultures are better due to women's superior rank?

I'm skeptical of suggestions that either gender is superior but am willing to listen if you have particular civilizations in mind.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/17/2018 02:22AM by Lot's Wife.

when the dutch settled new york some of their females were captured by natives, dutch males would recaptured them only to have them return to the natives.

live in sw arizona, know many apaches and mexicans. plus me spends most of the summer visiting red lake nation, half their tribal council are female. their nation never signed a treaty with any government.

god made man in his own corporate image. man- a servant, or an attendant to the male sex. woman- female servant belonging to man or mankind. men- are apt to forget the benefactor, mother earth and riot over the benefit. that's why me do not like most males.