And had the pleasure of being insulted by several TBM family members for my "apostasy".

Note to those in the COB: This is why you are losing the battle of conversion and retention. Everyone but the most valiant (blinded) can see how cold-hearted and self-serving these behaviors are. I have many nevermo friends. They have asked how the wedding went. As I used to promise in the temple recommend interview, I try to be honest in all of my dealings. So I tell them honestly how it went down.

Mormonism - perfecting the fine art of closing doors forever.

If TSCC had to pay a reasonable restitution for all the damage they have done to millions of people, they would be bankrupt.

I have this same issue with many fundamentalist/ intolerant Christians. They do not realize that being "Christian" is supposed to be a lifestyle and attitude of tolerance and kindness. It has been turned into a game of false virtue signaling.

The Mormon church will always be nothing more than Joe Smith's Mormon church unless some very radical, earthshaking changes are made. Two hour church and a demand to be called Christian are both meaningless changes.

Yes, Christians can have a "superiority" complex attitude at times, too. But that goes for all the other religions out there in the world.

The only difference is that at least the Christian man can walk his daughter down the aisle and see her get married while the temple bars that completely.

I did that also. twice. It hurt. I totally agree with you .

Four times. Wore it as a badge of honor.

How upsetting.

I couldn't agree more with your assessment.

Cults divide, not unify. It causes more harm than good.

I am sorry that you had to endure this.

gemini and Justin, I am very sorry to hear that.

The COB should take a hard look at what this behavior is doing to the bottom line, as that is their only concern. At some point the temple is going to turn into a net negative on conversions and retention and thus on tithing.

The sad thing is that in many countries the "sealing" comes after the wedding, sometimes by weeks or months.

Before the mass temple build up it was common in the US as well.

I was married overseas and was told to go to the temple at "my earliest opportunity" no waiting period.

I'd love to see couples say they'll wait year for the sealing (which can be done for them if they die before the years up).

If a trend started I bet they'd change to accommodate real fast.

I did it once for a sister. I felt used. Like a prop--for the photo afterwards.

I will say being demeaned on the outside of the temple pales in comparison to being demeaned on the inside.

Like! Watching the happy couple make promises to the church so they can have church endorsed sex is super stupid.

It is one of the cruelest, most heartless, and most disgusting things that the Mormon church does.

How, in good conscience, could any decent human being say that a loving parent is "unworthy" to see their own child wed?

This would be an easy fix for the church. Church authorities could allow all invited family members to attend. Or bishops could be told to encourage a couple to marry wherever their parents and grandparents could be with them. Or couples could marry outside the temple and get sealed at some point after (as they do in Europe) or a year later.

Any of those fixes would require kindness and compassion on the part of church authorities. And as well all know, kindness and compassion are not qualities that are high on their agendas. They are far more interested in strict obedience, conformity, judging others, and above all, revenue-generating opportunities.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2018 11:32AM by summer.

A few months ago my ex wife's niece was getting married. I got a call on the morning of the temple sealing from my ex brother in law, he was in a real bind. The rental place that he had gotten a ton of the stuff for the reception was only open for pick up at exactly the same time as the temple thing.

The told me that I was the only person he knew of that he could call to help. I told him that I would be glad to help and my two young sons and I went and picked up a whole truck load of rented items and took them to his house.

Later at the reception he told me that he wished he had more friends like me.

Funny stuff.

But seriously. When I left the Mormon church I decided to never go and wait. I have three daughters and three sons. The ones that are old enough have told me that if they ever get married that they will do it so that I can participate and worry about the Mormon sealing at a later date.

Part of that, I believe, was my firm insistence that I not participate in the sealings of my siblings, nieces and nephews, and friends.

I hope everything works out the way I think it will, but if it doesn't. I will graciously decline to wait outside the temple for my children.

We stayed at the hotel until we got a frantic phone call wondering where we were. Hubby and I are on the same page and informed all that we would be there, but not until later. Even so, it was difficult to pose for photos, knowing the whole thing was a farce and a divisive wedge. That was 13 years ago. I love our son and his wife, so I didn't make a scene.

Being excluded from the temple wedding ceremony of a daughter was the catalyst for her leaving Mormonism. A silver lining for me.

10 years ago me and my wife sat outside the temple while our only son got married. Not only that not one member of our direct family were there for various reason of, a couple being inactive but most to young or they were not endowed yet.This is after being active and paying tithing for 43 years. I WILL NEVER NEVER FORGIVE THE CHURCH FOR THIS WRONG!!! It still hurts today writing about it. On a side note, that year I had two other of my kids married outside the temple and got to walk them down the aisle, wonderful. Then at my sons reception I sat down with a TBM family member just to say hi and she leaned over to say, you know this was the real wedding today, the other two meant nothing. I was stunned. I look at her and said that is Gods problem not mine, and walked off. I wanted to punch her out but I don't hit woman or anyone for that matter.

One more story, a good friend of mine had to sit outside for his daughters wedding. He was dressed in his full dress military Naval uniform, looked awesome. So after the event and everyone was coming out someone came up and said the temple president wanted to talk to you. So he went inside the waiting room to talk to him. While he was there the family hurried up to take the pictures so he wouldn't be in it. They got halfway through the pictures and his daughter asked where was dad? She got pissed demanded they wait for him and redue the pictures. It turned out his TBM ex-wife and ex-mother in law arranged the whole thing to keep him out of the Celestial pictures. Side note his daughter and son in law in a couple years had her named removed from the church records. She said the Temple creeped her out and started her questioning.

I have waited outside and it is sad. Part of the sadness for me is that I have also been inside and the temple ceremony is so anti-climatic. Typically on a Friday morning with several couples waiting to be 'sealed'. The sealer (who the couple have never met) hurries through a bunch of platitudes and then does a quick marriage. Move along, others are waiting. Looking into the mirrors reflecting "eternity" is such a special gimmick.

Well said, everyone!

The Mormon leaders know that they would lose a great number of temple attendees (aka "tithe-payers) if they let go of the arbitrary 1-year waiting period in the US. It's all about the money.

I have a feeling that most of the tithing revenue comes from the U.S., and most of the new members are newborn babies. So, they are bleeding the American Mormons. Britain and some other countries do not legally accept a Mormon temple marriage, and that's why they let go of the 1-year waiting period for them. Not God, but government intervened.

I think it is extremely NASTY, the way the cult supports and encourages rumors about couples who choose to wait a year! This is a fact. The first, most common accusation is that the couple is probably pregnant. An innocent couple who wants to have beloved non-Mormon relatives at their wedding, is accused of being immoral, lax in their faithfulness, not "believers" in God or Christ or whatever, being hypocrites, etc. They just want to follow their hearts and include their families, which I think is noble and loving! The Mormon cult is anti love, as we know, and as stated by Nelson.

I stopped paying during those months I had to take sick leave from work, to have painful hospital treatments. I was the sole support of my family, and I also was left with copays, and such. I explained this to the bishop and others, when I quit all three of my church callings. I could not believe how nasty and unsympathetic the Mormons were! I was barely back to work, when my daughter got engaged to the Mormon next door. The bishop would not renew my temple recommend. He said I had to pay back tithing, plus full tithing for the next 8 months, until the wedding. He said it was "God's money", and that I was to pay that BEFORE I paid my doctor bills! I also was ordered to resume my callings as organist and Sunday school teacher. I was not completely recovered, but the bishop and music people didn't care. At this stage I no longer believed, and I felt that all of this was bullying.

I know of some parents who offered their engaged kids the monetary equivalent of the tithing they were ordered to pay. I did this for my daughter and her fiancee. It was a large enough amount, that it would have been a nice nest-egg for them to start their life. I was going to pay it into a bank account, instead of to the Mormon cult. They refused!

I had to go, because my daughter's father and his new wife were no longer Mormons. My other children were completely out of the cult. My daughter's fiancee's family were all too young, the "bridesmaids" hadn't been through the temple yet. My cousin was the officiator, and my widowed brother sat next to me. The rest of the group was the groom's TBM family.

After the ceremony, rushing to get dressed, in the crowded, stuffy locker room, and trying to fix her hair which had been messed-up by the headdress and heavy veil, my daughter started to cry, and she said, "This is NOT how I pictured my wedding to be."

I told her from my heart: "This is not your "wedding." You two were legally married when you signed the marriage license in the little office room. Your cousin just added a lot of extra stuff that the church wants him to say. Your REAL wedding starts when you arrive at the reception, and start celebrating with everyone. You and your new husband have planned the reception of your dreams, and all of your family and friends will be there. Your friends' band will play, people will dance, the little kids will enjoy the grounds, the bridges and ducks, the great food, the beautiful cake, your dress won't be covered up with the ugly temple garb, we'll fix your hair...." This pep-talk was for me, as well as for the bride.

My daughter and her husband have not been to the temple since--except for the weddings of his family members. Theirs is a good example of how weddings FORCE people to the temple.

In the Mormon cult, "Family" is their biggest weapon. Along with peer pressure, gossip, rumors, shunning, bullying, threatening.


I have had Mormons make comments to me, about a temple marriage being a "real marriage." My response was to look really shocked, and say, "Are you accusing non-temple couples of living in sin?"

I worked for Social Security for 30 years. Many benefits depended on marriage: spouses, ex-spouses, etc.

In order to establish that a legal marriage was established, either both parties (the original wage-earning applicant and the applicant's current spouse) allege ongoing marriage at the time of application, or in other cases, they must prove that marriage took place with a CERTIFICATE of marriage, usually signed by the officiant (the one who performed the marriage ceremony.)

Having a marriage LICENSE simply means that you are legally cleared TO marry. It does not mean that a marriage ceremony has taken place, under the supervision of someone who has the legal authority to perform a marriage ceremony.

And let's not confuse any of this with "common-law" marriage, which is recognized as legal in some states, under certain circumstances.

Along with all of this, the definition of a "legal marriage" varies from one American State to another. We had to look up complicated State laws to see if a couple had been married under questionable circumstances - maybe we could determine that they met the criteria for common-law in that State.

We all hated cases where we had to determine whether an alleged marriage was, in fact, legal in that State, given the circumstances. It isn't always as cut-and-dried as it looks.

Out of my four children who are married, I only saw one wedding. My son was married on the beach. He was later sealed to his wife a year later. That didn't bother me because it was a make believe ceremony that means nothing to me. Having missed out on seeing my three daughters married was very painful. My TBM wife and most of her family were present, and here I am sitting outside the temple. I can't even describe how painful this was and it made me hate the morg even more for having these awful policies. No other church does this to families. Even the whacked out, fundamentalist sects of Islam and Judaism have open weddings. Mormonism is the only f*****g church that separates families during weddings. It's just plain cruel and wrong!

My best friend's daughter was married at the Salt Lake temple a few years ago. I flew out to be there as I had always been close to her daughter. I told them I would be their 'Girl Friday' and run around picking up things, getting the reception ready, etc.

After standing outside at my friend's wedding 20+ years before, I swore that I would never do it again.

There was one relative who asked me if I was going to the temple - I very nicely said, "I'm not unworthy and I won't wait outside like I am." No one else asked me about it. :)

This guy is GREAT and I hope she doesn't bail like she did last time, so I'm being rather low key about it all. They've dated for over 2 years (not counting the year they dated 5 years ago).

I had to deal with the idea of her getting married in the temple 3 years ago. It took me quite a while. A sister I don't get along with will be there. My aunt, who I have repaired my relationship with, but is so mormon sometimes, it makes me physically sick. It did when I was TBM. Her SIL was just called as a mission president. I was so happy to hear the news????? They've arrived. He, I have to admit, is a really nice guy. Can't say the same for my cousin married to him.

My ex's 2 sisters will be there. Ridiculous people.

AND I'll be outside with my sister's 3 children and her 8 grandchildren . . . none of whom are mormon. All my other siblings and nephews will be outside with me.

I'll be there for pictures no matter what. I have one daughter. I'll do whatever it takes to maintain my relationship with her. They have her for a few moments. In reality, she is MINE, and always will be.

So screw them. At least I don't have to go looking for a dress!!! I had to get dresses for my boyfriend's son's wedding on a mountaintop in Colorado in September and I got a few extras. So I could see my boyfriend's Jewish son married (it was absolutely one of the neatest events I've ever attended), but I can't see my daughter married.

But then I couldn't see my older sister married or any of my friends (I got married after most) as I wasn't endowed yet (and I'm old so only old maids or missionaries took out their endowments). And 4 of my siblings couldn't be at my wedding.

No big reception. No invites are being sent out for my daughter's wedding reception. She's just going to let everyone know this time just before it happens.

I've had a really crazy 5 weeks and it continues going on. My daughter is on a cruise right now and won't be back for 2 more weeks. I actually NEED her around right now. Still trying to get my job situation ironed out, but my ex said, "QUIT" the job I started. Now I have 3 offers for other jobs. So my mind is not on a wedding right now.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2018 10:48AM by cl2.

It wasn't that I was even all that upset about missing the "wedding." I knew what I was NOT missing and I knew that the reception was the big deal.

The hard part was seeing some of the most horrible, self-centered, self-righteous, dishonest, unethical people in the whole world go in and stick their noses in the air with the "oh, too bad I'm better than you" attitude.

No, they were not better than me. Some of them were really good people, but half of them were not. In fact, they are obviously dumb as dirt. But because I refused to pretend like I can believe stupid shit, I wasn't "worthy" to see my child get married.

The nice thing, though, is I've told that story to so many people who didn't know that about Mormons (the part about parents sitting outside while their children get married), and I know that I've enlightened a lot of people about the truth and they tell another, and they tell another... Of all the ridiculous things people have heard about Mormons, that is the one that shocks the hell outta them and confirms how weird it all is to them.

All the people who think that they are so holy that they can go see my daughter married. I would like to hold up a sign that says, "I choose not to go in your temple." But of course, I won't do it and I'd be thrown off the temple grounds. If I could go, I wouldn't go as I won't validate the whole process.

I had to come to realize I have to give my daughter the same right I had. I was stupid, too. I had so much to learn. It doesn't mean it won't hurt, as it will. Right now our relationship is better than it has been in years and years, and I will have everyone with me.

My family are mostly introverts and so when I got married, I invited the bare minimum, while my ex invited everyone he could. My daughter is an extrovert like her dad. When she took out her endowments 1-1/2 years ago, the whole endowment room was filled with people who went with her. I took my soon to be SIL just as someone to help and my mom went along, but she asked me to take someone to help me as she was uncomfortable with all the changing clothes, etc., although she had been to the temple many, many, many times. That is just the way we are. We don't want an audience, but my daughter does, so all the holy neighbors and family members will be there, although it was I ALONE who raised her, who sacrificed everything for her. She may not know it completely now, but someday she will. Someday.

I adore the guy she is marrying and his mother will help her in the bride room. I know her, too, and think she is wonderful. I can handle that. I asked her to please not have my sister help.

Count me in, I also sat outside alone while my oldest daughter was married in the Salt Lake Temple several years ago. I just walked around Temple Square on my own waiting for the "family" to
emerge from the temple for the picture taking.

Additionally, about a week prior to my daughters wedding she went through for her endowments which was also attended by many of the family. After the endowment session there was a gathering at a popular SLC area restaurant for all of the attendees to honor the soon to be newlyweds. I was not invited to the dinner, shunned by my wife for not being temple worthy. That may have been more painful than the wedding day.

I remember finding this on Richard Packham's website, here are a few more stories similar to those that have been posted here:

FAMILIES HELD HOSTAGE

BY ARZA EVANS

An Angry Father:

I am a Catholic who married a Mormon woman. I have always tried to be understanding and supportive of my wife’s religion. I even agreed to allow our children to go to her church and be brought up as Mormons. My oldest son and I have always been very close. When he decided to go on a two year mission, I agreed to support him even though I would need to work a lot of extra hours. When he came home from his mission, he married a Mormon girl in an L.D.S temple. Her family and my wife were able to see the wedding but I was not "worthy" to attend. I had to wait outside even though I had paid for his mission and part of his wedding. This made me very angry at the Church and also at those who went along with this cruel treatment. Since the wedding, my son and his wife don’t want much to do with me because I won’t convert to Mormonism. The L.D.S. Church has destroyed my family! I am very sad and angry.

A Temple Wedding:

I still agonize over how much my wedding day must have deeply hurt my parents. I am their only daughter. I refused to drive to the temple with them for fear of smelling like my dad’s cigarette smoke. I have grieved many times since then about my decision to get married in a Mormon temple with my parents standing outside shivering in the December cold. My grandparents and my brothers stayed home, as did my aunt and uncle and cousins.

We walked into the sealing room. Who was there for me? Not any of my family or people who really knew me, cared about me, or loved me throughout my life. The room was full of people that I hardly knew. The temple sealer gave a short talk and then recited some memorized words about us becoming kings and queens in heaven. There were no flowers, no music, no ring ceremony, nothing like the wedding I grew up looking forward to. I had no way of knowing all of this until it was too late.

We were pushed out of the room to make way for the next couple. The cycle time for weddings is only about twenty minutes. We walked out of the temple to where my parents were waiting. My mother was crying. My dad said I looked pretty. I felt horrible. I will never forget that sick feeling in my stomach as long as I live.

My wedding broke my heart and that of my family. I eventually left the Church and my husband but not before my children were taught that temple marriage is the only marriage truly acceptable to God. Today, I face the prospect of one or both of my children being married in the temple surrounded by strangers while I stand outside and wait.

Sometimes I think that non-Mormons and also Mormons who do not get married in the temple should include a statement in their wedding announcements that Mormon temple recommend holders (even close family members) are not invited and not permitted to witness their wedding ceremony just to show them how painful it is to be ostracized.

Jamie S. Manard Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If TSCC had to pay a reasonable restitution for
> all the damage they have done to millions of
> people, they would be bankrupt.

There is no acceptable reparation the church could ever make for the relationships it destroys and the lifetime pain and anguish it causes many of us. Only a time machine back to pre-church JS time and location could make any of this right.

Hello, Jamie, I have a friend who just left which prompted me to get active on RFM again. She is angry and feels cheated.

I am sorry that you experienced that. I wish I could better relate but I am a never-mo. I think my friend who was a convert to the church would like to read your story. I am glad she finally sees that the church isn't what it claims to be. It should be a priority as a father to walk your daughter down the aisle and be present when she takes her vows. My friend never knew who her dad was so I think this story would touch her in a way.