I still have a logon to lds.org. I only use it to poke around this site.

https://www.familysearch.org/temple/ordinancesready


I've never clicked on their "Ordinances Ready" link until today. And I was surprised to find I have dead people who "need" their work done. Then when I traced my relationship I found that they are not in my direct line of descendance. They are tenuously related to me. How is my nth cousin back over 200 years someone I need to "work" for?


I think it is unethical for this system to present these names for people to consider. If it isn't direct then don't do it is my opinion. They say that Holocaust Victims are off limits so why not people who are only distantly related?


What a bunch of "harvesting of names" crap.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2018 01:01PM by Elder Berry.

Since when have Mormons let what is ethical be their guide?

eternal1 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Since when have Mormons let what is ethical be
> their guide?


^^^This

eternal1 Wrote:
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> Since when have Mormons let what is ethical be
> their guide?

I wasn't asking if they thought ethical. Many former Mormons have no problems with work for the dead because it is "fake work." What I was wondering was if basically taking dead people's info from sources that are so distantly related and providing them for processing was ethical to people here. It is still fake but it doesn't follow their "4 Generation" imperative. It just seems so scummy to me.

If people want to harvest dead people's info for Mormon processing I guess that is their prerogative but to present these names to members as potentially something they should do is just creepy.

It is like social media recommendations for connecting to strangers you don't know but share a connecting person. The social media program doesn't know you don't know them. Ancestry knows exactly how related you are.

Okay, from my perspective, it's not ethical, so no, and I find it creepy too.

Look up the term Mental Masturbation in a dictionary and there is a picture of a Mormon temple. With the following definition.

Mental Masturbation: A thought process or action with no practical application aside from temporary satisfaction.



So I wouldn't call it unethical, I would instead call it stupid.

I don't consider proxy temple work for the dead an ethical violation. But there are many who disagree with me.

I respect your point of view.

I disagree but I can respect it.

Making people feel like there are lost souls when scanning their family tree seems unethical to me. If they want to do extra work that is another story.

Here is their guide.

"Determining Which Names to Submit

You are responsible to submit names of the following individuals for temple work (the individuals must have been deceased for at least one year):

Immediate family members
Direct In-line Ancestors

You may also submit the names of the following individuals who have been deceased for at least one year:

Biological, adoptive, foster family lines
Collateral family lines
Your own descendants
Possible ancestors

Do not submit the names of persons who are not related to you, including names of famous people or names gathered from unapproved extraction projects, such as victims of the Jewish Holocaust. You may submit the names of individuals with whom you shared a friendship. This is an exception to the general rule that members should not submit the names of individuals to whom they are not related. Before performing ordinances for a deceased individual who was a friend, you should obtain permission from the individual’s closest living relative."
https://www.lds.org/bc/content/shared/content/english/pdf/34697_MembersGuideTemple/tfhw-2010-07-providing-temple-ordinances-eng.pdf
https://www.lds.org/manual/introduction-to-family-history-student-manual/chapter-7?lang=eng



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/29/2018 03:40PM by Elder Berry.

What are collateral family lines?

What I found in their "Ordinances Ready" link.

"I've never clicked on their "Ordinances Ready" link until today. And I was surprised to find I have dead people who "need" their work done. Then when I traced my relationship I found that they are not in my direct line of descendance. They are tenuously related to me. How is my nth cousin back over 200 years someone I need to "work" for?"

All of a large group of childless unmarried great great aunts and uncles who lived in Ontario were baptized. To my knowledge there are/were no Mormons in their collateral descendents. I just assumed the Mormons took lists of cemetery burials compiled by genealogical and historical societies.

MnRN Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just
> assumed the Mormons took lists of cemetery burials
> compiled by genealogical and historical societies.

http://www.pbs.org/mormons/etc/genealogy.html

Anything and everything they can get their record-grabbing hands on...

I wonder if anyone has done Ray Manzarek's temple work yet. Or Jon Lord's or Keith Emerson's. They all died within the last ten years.

I write this knowing that some crazy Mormon could get grandiose ideas and actually do what I mentioned. That was the whole point, that it's often done for bragging rights, even as a lark. I think I'll pray for those gentlemen instead, in private and without informing a soul.

I'm related to the Barrymore's.

Wouldn't it be cool to have the guy raise his arm to the square and say "I baptize you in the name of Lionel Barrymore, who is dead..."

Naw, too much trouble, and I'll bet my TBM side of the family already did it--at least once.

Nothing remotely ethical has ever gone on in a Mormon temple.

For the living or their dead.

It's frustrating to nitpick about what is or is not "ethical", when the whole of Mormonism is a hoax.

This is just another sales ploy to persuade suckers to go to the temple more often. The advertisers are inventing a reason for them to go.

I'm sincerely wondering this: is there an internet version of "mail fraud," in this computer age? False advertising used to be unethical. The Morg pushes names that have been baptized a hundred times before! So if God really needs people to do temple work (also a lie), these names have already been taken care of. The scamming never ends. This whole name-search thing is just another way for the Mormon cult to make money.

Mother Who Knows Wrote:
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> It's frustrating to nitpick about what is or is
> not "ethical", when the whole of Mormonism is a
> hoax.

Good point.

> I'm sincerely wondering this: is there an
> internet version of "mail fraud," in this computer
> age? False advertising used to be unethical. The
> Morg pushes names that have been baptized a
> hundred times before!

Another great thought. If it can be proven that LDS Corp is pushing for dead processing as a meaningless rapacious activity people have to pay to perform it sounds like the very definition of fraud.

Of course it is ethical. For a Mormon.

You and I aren't one of those any more, so to us Ethics is a county, pronounced by somebody with a lisp. ;o))

didn't have an obituary was because his distant mormon relatives would have his "work" done. I don't know the whole story, but it seems his parents were at least somewhat mormon back in Ohio. He knew more about mormonism than I do. Well, his last name is Taylor!!

My boyfriend told me to tell my daughter to NOT have his work done after he dies. He has no worries. Her purpose will be to get her parents back together in the hereafter.

I don't have any problems with people doing temple work on anyone.

If you want to do made up rituals in secret--whatever. I've never seen the reason for being outraged about Mormon temple work "converting" the soul of your departed ancestor, or even yourself.

Do you really believe they have any power over their soul? No. Then why get worked up about it.

The most unethical thing about temple work are interviews, lying to members about the origins of the temple, wasting time and trying to get people to believe that this stuff is important.

snowball Wrote:
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> Do you really believe they have any power over
> their soul? No. Then why get worked up about it.


I guess because it is both exclusive (who gets in their temple) and intrusive (they want your dead) , disrespectful and demeaning to people living to insist their god wants this.

I can respect an evangelical who thinks I'm going to be in hell when dead and not a Mormon who thinks I will be Mormon again. Just like when my family thinks either I never truly believed or that I do believe and I'm not conforming. It never ends with Mormonism and their marginally doctrinally based beliefs.

It may be easy to write off as a weird cult gathering in a temple to do something for me when I'm dead as funny and stupid if I didn't have the proximity I have.

My mother goes their several times a week and puts my name in a box for people to chant around.

What do you want to bet all these names will be submitted for temple work?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/news/marriott-says-as-many-as-500-million-starwood-guests-data-may-have-been-breached/ar-BBQiftT

All of my grandparents and great grandparents have had temple ordinances performed for them. Out of all my parents’ siblings and my first cousins, only my immediate family joined the Mormon church. None of my aunts, uncles or cousins would have submitted their names and nor did we. I guess it’s probable that my family fell under the category of someone else’s “collateral family line”.

My family’s church involvement only lasted a few years when my brothers and I were kids. We’d had nothing to do with the church for 40 years when my oldest brother died. His name showed up on Family Search as “a deceased member of the church” within a week of his death. I saw that, and I said out loud, “Vultures!” He was barely gone, and they were already reclaiming him. I know it’s all a bunch of crap, but the disrespect really does bother me.

Thanks for your post. I knew their system was a virus for temple toga hand grips of hate on unsuspecting peoples.

No, absolutely not.

As a Never-Mo my thought is that if the dead person has any grandkids or great grandkids living, it is absolutely not ethical.

If they have living descendants that knew them while they were alive, then it is not ethical to do anything to those relatives without asking those direct descendants first.

If you are a direct descendant I guess that is something different. If you are not, you are usurping their descendant's rights.

I have great grandparents that I knew. My great grandmother was born sometime in the 1870s. If someone decided to do her work without asking me or other great grandchildren that knew her (she lived until she was 99) I think that we have a right to be upset.

I find it also degrading that for those of us who resigned voluntarily, were excommunicated or cut off in any other way from TSCC, will be posthumously rebaptized after we're dead and gone, even if it's against ours or our family's wishes.

We should have the final say in that. Not the damn cult ! They will track us to the grave, literally.

There really ought to be a law on the books prohibiting that. The only way I know of is if a class action were brought by a group of people with standing. As ex-Mormons, that would be us.

Agreed! Class Action Suit!

Another thought: you know how apologists tell people that BFD only gives the "choice" for the deceased to join the Church™ in Heaven?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but as soon as BFD is done, aren't the names immediately "confirmed" as members of TCOTCOJCOLDS?

Anyway, who can trust anything from the Mo' church? The list of names for BFD that most teenagers get dunked for is NOT anything CLOSE to a relative, so that shoots down the "names for submission thing right there. Am I wrong? What are your thoughts?

Chicken N. Backpacks Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Anyway, who can trust anything from the Mo'
> church? The list of names for BFD that most
> teenagers get dunked for is NOT anything CLOSE to
> a relative, so that shoots down the "names for
> submission thing right there. Am I wrong? What
> are your thoughts?


You are right.

Think of how many repeats for dead names where there probably is a direct descendent and LDS Corp uses these names over and over and over again. They probably have the "Ordinances Ready" link just for show. If they need names how'scome they don't use these ones?

I mean really, it isn't a sustainable model. I suspect the "Ordinances Ready" is just to prompt members to go to the temple more than anything else. There is an end to their genealogical record. There will be a day when all the records are recorded because human history is a non-renewable resource unless you lie.

"Ethical" and "temple work" do not belong in the same sentence.

I believe every bit of the "name extraction" as well as your own relatives for temple ordinances is highly unethical and needs to stop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2018 07:24PM by SusieQ#1.

My mother died a few weeks ago. She was not LDS but I have an LDS SIL who considered my Mum as a friend. Does this mean she could put Mum's name forward despite not being any kind of blood relative?
If my permission is asked for it certainly won't be given and SIL knows this but I feel she could simply ignore that.

lindy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My mother died a few weeks ago. She was not LDS
> but I have an LDS SIL who considered my Mum as a
> friend. Does this mean she could put Mum's name
> forward despite not being any kind of blood
> relative?

Yep.

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I've never clicked on their "Ordinances Ready" link until today. And I was surprised to find I have dead people who "need" their work done.

Nobody "needs" their WORK done but tscc.
The "work" is occupying your mind-time.

> I think it is unethical for this system to present these names for people to consider. If it isn't direct then don't do it is my opinion.

WHY do it at all?

> What a bunch of "harvesting of names" crap.

That's what LDS does. It's a BIG TIME sucker.
And it hopes it's followers are too. Suckers!
It's not harvesting (dead people's) names though,
But YOUR time, people's time, in the here and now.

Busywork [in a nutshell]
Not "temple" work.
The temple doesn't work.

It's called temple WORK
Because it doesn't PLAY

M@t

moremany Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It's called temple WORK
> Because it doesn't PLAY
>
> M@t

Pay, prey, and obey. Nothing playful anymore in Mormonism.

My mom,after she converted and went through the temple submitted all her own family names to be dead dunked. I know some family members were not happy when they found out, especially the Catholics.