"One can define God as the immutable laws that govern the universe, but this is not the God most people think of when you say the word, "God".
When I use the word, "God" I mean it in the way Einstein used the term, in a non-personal sense. In the sense that God is the immutable laws that govern the universe. So that to know the laws of the universe is to know the mind of God. I predict that we'll know the mind of god by the end of this century."
Hawking - Is there a God?
Brief Answers to the Big Questions

No clue here. Have never once felt "the spirit"...whatever that or it is. God is something that was told to me. My inner thought tell me he/she/it is folly. Where I am at now.

In order for gods to exist magic must be real. No magic, no god.

You must be a lot of fun at Disneyland.

The one with the elephant head and four arms is kinda cool. Eric Clapton too.

Clapton is good.

The other one is dead, I'm told, and we have killed him.

I thought Carlos Santana was still alive.

Good, that!

...if the laws of the universe are immutable? Some people have even given up on the "immutable" part and simply refer to god as "universe".

(I'm always curious when people talk in quantitative terms about the universe. How fast it's expanding. How big it is. How many galaxies are in it. What instruments are they using to reach those conclusions. How would they know whether observable expansion has consistent characteristics 500 million light years beyond anything that has been observed? How would they know whether expansion is racing toward something that is expanding from an opposite direction? )

There's an appealing simplicity to the idea of god=universe. The universe is gonna do what the universe wants to do and there's nothing we can do about it. In that sense, the universe is omnipotent and omnipresent. (Is it also omniscient?) Our job, according to that view, is to harmonize our understanding and perceptions with the "will of the universe". It's all ridiculous of course because it's so expansive that it rules out nothing and promises nothing. We're part of the universe and there's no reason to think that the sentient particles known as humans, whose perceptions are so limited that they often do not know what's really happening in their own homes or bodies, have any hope of comprehending something as vast as the "universe" in any meaningful way, let alone being able to successfully "harmonize" their activities with the "will" of such an immense abstraction.

But, at the end of the day, after all has been said and done and the fat lady has sung the bottom line, such expansive, all-inclusive concepts of god are meaningless, since they amount to the same thing as declaring that there is no god for all practical purposes.

Well said.

I learned a new word today: panentheism. It means God is part of everything and everything is part of God. There’s really only one thing in all of existence, but it experiences itself subjectively as us and everything else.

does god control the experiencing, or is it just a free-form stream of consciousness like a dream, and we pop up as little bubbles of sentience from time to time?

Basically Bill Hicks was talking about panentheism when he said:

“Today a young man on acid realized that all matter is merely energy condensed to a slow vibration, that we are all one consciousness experiencing itself subjectively, there is no such thing as death, life is only a dream, and we are the imagination of ourselves.... Heres Tom with the weather.”

No

I'm with Abby

Whenever I hear or read this question I can't help but think: Does it even matter?

No it doesn't.

What other animal on Earth thinks about God?

Seems to always be saying "Oh my God!!!"

I don't know if that counts. I just thought I would mention it, just in case it turns out to be germane. (And BTW, whatever happened to Michael Jackson's other brothers?)

As a matter of fact, anything that matters matters only to sentient beings and only to beings that subjectively are interested in and capable of perceiving the effect side of cause-and-effect relationships. Nothing matters to a rock. But things can matter to a cat.

To anyone who would like to experience something or many things much better than the crap they have experienced in this life, those big questions and their answers matter. But it may turn out that it eventually will not matter that it once mattered.

This message was brought to you by two special brownies.

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> To anyone who would like to experience 'something'... in... life, those big questions, and their answers, matter.
But it may turn out that it eventually will not matter that it once mattered. This message was brought to you by two special brownies.
>

I bet.

"Special" 'Brown Brownies Matter'
No frownies. No clownies. Justies.

Easy there WP lol

oneinbillions Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Whenever I hear or read this question I can't help but think: Does it even matter?

That's where I'm at. Does it even matter? Does an ant care if a human is looming over him? Or does he just go about his ant business? And "God," if he exists, is proportionally so much bigger than that.

And I agree with others, animals don't care about whether or not God exists. Why should we?

I wish there was, or rather I wish there was a way that we could continue on after our body dies, but I just don't see how it could be possible. It just doesn't make any sense.

Quite frankly, that sucks, but the older I get, the more reality means to me. I want truth and not fantasy, although I know that the fantasy is comforting.

and be plausible.

The problem is that there is no concrete evidence for any of them and no way to verify whether any of them is a real thing until we die...and, sadly, if it turns out that there is no continuation of consciousness after the death of the body, we won't even have the satisfaction of knowing the answer.

Once you're dead you won't care.

There is nothing about human concepts of gods that doesn't smack of humans creating or defining gods in their image or to fill human needs or knowledge gaps.

It doesn't seem very plausible, but if definitive verifiable evidence surfaces, I'm happy to change my mind. God surely would know how to provide information other than puppies, rainbows and warm fuzzies.

Just because they were wrong a thousand times before doesn’t mean they’re wrong this time.

True, but patterns when studied appropriately, can indicate what kind of evidence is needed to confirm.

So far, there is every indication human are behaving consistently in their creation of gods that come and go as our knowledge grows.


I'm open to new evidence, but the hearsay, personal experience and watchmaker claims do not meet any standard of verifiable evidence yet.

Is there a god?

If so, he/she/it certainly isn’t represented by any religion I’ve ever encountered.

"Not only is there no god... try getting a plumber on the weekend." Woody Allen.

HH =)

There's no evidence any such thing exists.

And I personally find the notion of re-defining "god" to mean something else (the universe, for example) both really silly and really worthless.

No matter who does it (Hawking, Einstein, etc.).

At Disneyland, you know you’re indulging in a little fun fantasy for entertainment purposes. Not so with religion. Some people can take that to dangerous extremes.

We take our beliefs very seriously.

You should look into it and be schooled in the ways of Goofy. Goofy blessings await those who seek out the wisdom of Goofy.

As it says in the Book of Goofy and Wilbur: "Here fishy, fishy! Come and get it!"

Hawking is building a strawman so he can burn it down. This quote is not about the existence of god but how we will learn that god doesn't exist.

The strangest thing in my year of attending LDS was that you had to be married to get into the highest level of the Celestial Kingdom (no matter how much money you tithed) yet there were unmarried people in the church.

Wouldn't you at that point, go find a church to give your money to that would at least PROMISE you heaven and god and all the rest of it, regardless of your single state?

(PS yes I am single)

No worries, they have that covered. If you're female, you will be given to (married) some righteous guy after you die. If you're male, it's your fault for being single, so you either need to marry the first girl that comes along, or plan on going to a lower kingdom. Now give us your tithing dammit!

What is wanted?

Has it a name?

Will you give it to me?

Save the kinky stuff for the bedroom.

You all sound just like Laman and Lemuel... and you know what happened to them.

Koriwhore, really? It's topic #2 of the usual 5 topics.

Do us all a favor.

1. Close your eyes
2. Open your task manager
3. Select npc.exe
4. End task
5. Come back and actually attempt to have a conversation with us.

Just an hint for having an intelligent conversation:
make an intelligent contribution for once instead of detracting from every conversation in this forum.

It that what you call intelligence -> beating dead horses?

Elder Berry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> It that what you call intelligence -> beating dead
> horses?

^^^ THIS! ^^^

What a dead horse it is!

It has taken a lot of work to run all the Christians off this board, I’ll be damned if we will let you dredge up old topics that we fought like HELL to stop talking about!

You can believe in a god if you want, just not here.

So Hawkins believed in God? I thought he was an athiest. I'll have to learn more about him...

No! Wait.....Yes? No wait.....it depends on how you describe god.

I love the Woody Allen answer that Happy Heretic reminded me about...."Not only is there no God....try getting a plumber on the weekend."

If I somehow find myself crawling out of the cold dark ground after the last shovel-full has shoveled over me, well, I will be damned shocked, damned dumb-founded, damned flabbergasted....you name it.

Now, what I might be facing at this moment in time after emerging with dirt on my face is highly, highly speculative to say the least.

Hmmmm, will I find my vain wishes granted, you know, considering my less than 10 appearance? Will I be able to finally skip again? (for some reason this is wish I dream about). Will I be able do tons of good in the world? (had to throw that one in) Will the world be totally amazing, beautiful, peaceful, EQUAL, LOVING,? etc. etc. etc.

Or, will it just be more of the same ole, same ole, and you know, what about THAT????



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/30/2018 05:10PM by presleynfactsrock.

This thread should be locked and buried. Where is CZ?

Snickers Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> This thread should be locked and buried. Where is
> CZ?


I don't understand.

Could you explain your position?

I think it is just exaggerated exasperation because koriwhore has brought this up so often in exactly the same manner, that it probably qualifies as electron abuse, not to mention Einstein / Hawking/ Sagan quote abuse. Consider the plea as black humor.

Brother Of Jerry Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think it is just exaggerated exasperation
> because koriwhore has brought this up so often in
> exactly the same manner, that it probably
> qualifies as electron abuse, not to mention
> Einstein / Hawking/ Sagan quote abuse. Consider
> the plea as black humor.

Thank you, Brother of Jerry!!

“Pharaoh will kill us all. Where is your God particle now?”

If there is a God he/she is the biggest dead beat dad/mom asshole of all time.

Humans are a storm of crazy acts and meanness.

Human life should be so easy and loving, but instead it winner take all competitive, agressive etc., kill or be killed. Humans are messed up psychologically.

delbertlstapley Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Human life should be so easy and loving, but
> instead it winner take all competitive, agressive
> etc., kill or be killed. Humans are messed up
> psychologically.

It's because none of you are being obedient, following God's "plan of happiness."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/01/2018 10:36AM by london.

I believe that there is some sort of governing power. I'm not going to pretend to try to explain it. My self-awareness suggests to me that consciousness continues. Reincarnation makes a lot of sense.

Pin a rose on everybody's nose--you are ALL right!

There are as many versions of God as there are people. We have a right to whatever concept we choose to embrace. Or, if you're flighty like me, I like whatever concept I have in the moment.

You forgot a huge reason to invent "God". To scam people out of their money.

I believe in "The Universe". Wally has a way with words, and I agree with him--but human beings have an innate curiosity--so give us science-buffs a break, because we'll never stop seeking empirical, concrete answers. This is what led a lot of us out of the cult.

If there is or isn't a God--we can't do anything about it. Our important relationships are with each other. Make nice!

Going along with that: what happens after we die?

Best answer to that is one I read here years ago, that just like we are not aware of what happened (nothing) before we were born, so it will be after we die.

In some kind of thought/hope, I will add, "Unless of course there is an amazing surprise!"

That's pretty much how I see it. Wherever I was in 1939, long before I was born, will be the same place I am in 2089. Not here and I didn't know I wasn't here.

Yes. Jerry Garcia. A good Fire on the Mountain jam will make my bosom burn every time.

What are the immutable laws of god that govern the universe other than the nature and natural properties of matter?

Beyond that, billions of years of evolution have left humans with imagination. Imagination is fun. You can make up anything you want. Gods with snakes for hair. Undersea Gods. Gods with Jackal Heads. Gods who kill firstborns and send plagues. Gods who have special kingdoms behind velvet ropes. Whatever you want. Gods who are universes with immutable laws, even. The only limit is your imagination.

Omni-imaginative. I do believe we have reached that point in our trajectory as humans.

So why are so many of our Gods so mean, wish washy, mind-changing, and boring? But always serving our individual purposes?

I guess most people aren't all that "omni-imaginative" after all.

One thing you can say about the ancient Roman, Greek, and Norse gods is that they had tons of human foibles. They had zest and personality. The Abrahamic god seems to have a split personality, one day being benevolent and kind, another day acting like an angry, petulant child. Perhaps one day we will invent a kinder god.

You call that a big question? An old one, not a young one!

It all depends on who you are.
And how you live it, and diet!

M@t

If you mean the general anthropomorphic supposed deity that
is omniscient, omnipotent, and omnipresent then no, certainly not.

If you mean is there an intelligence behind the order and
structure of the cosmos, no one knows.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2018 03:50PM by anybody.