I am remembering this just recently, bewailing how stupid I was to be such a true believer. Think late 70's, 80's. The "spirit" was guiding so many people into the true church! It was going to grow and grow. Local prophets were especially bad. We were in the last days, tribulation was coming, and many people would recognize the value the true church held for them. Plus, as you know, the 10 lost tribes were going to be coming back. Our area was going to be bursting with members until the time came to trek to Zion (Missouri). Get ready for the avalanche, people!

Well, the years passed...there was a time when the active membership increased slightly, but it was mostly women and old people. Then the ward was dissolved, and the meetinghouse was boarded up. It's been that way for about 15 years, with no hope in sight that it can ever open up again. You have to drive quite a ways to attend a Mormon ward, and that ward is shrinking.

The LDS church is so prophetic, isn't it?

I am also reminded of the way that women are devalued in Mormonism. They had a period when there were plenty of women in the ward, but very little priesthood. In other churches, this would not have been a problem. There was also a period of time when many people who were mentally challenged in one way or another were activated/converting. When placed in a calling, their toxicity would drive normal people out of the church. I remember going into a business where a roomful of people were laughing, making jokes about the Mormon church being full of crazy people.
I don't want to put anyone down, but you have to place competent people in responsible positions. They didn't want to admit that they didn't have enough of those kind of people.

I remember how disappointed I felt that the church was going in the opposite direction than was promised, but I was still too brainwashed to call it quits and find somewhere else to go. I did end up going less, but I couldn't shake the hold that the church had placed on me from when I was young and vulnerable. I honestly feared the terrible things Old Satan was going to do to me if I left the church, even when I new that it was ridiculous. I had known many ex-Mormons, and their lives were going better than mine. It didn't make sense, but I couldn't shake the fear.

I shook Mormonism off forever four years ago, but today I am suffering from regrets. I made some bad decisions while I was a true believer. Why not? If these were true prophets, should I not make decisions according to what they say? It took me years to understand that they blabbed things out of context, but I had already suffered the consequences of following things they said.

Remember all the crap about promptings? Those promptings led me to some devastating consequences. Still I could not let go of Mormonism. I simply redefined what they said, and blamed myself for being stupid. I couldn't admit that the Mormon universe is full of magical nonsense.

The desperation and fanaticism of the Kimball years (1974-1980, when he was still conscious) reflected the fact that Book of Mormon prophecies about the "Lamanites" weren't really happening. So the mighty prophet, ordained before the foundations of the world for just such a time as this, had to try to make them happen.

To try to force the pure magic Mormon solution in which Lamanites accept the Gospel en masse and then murder all the American gentiles, Kimball conceived a crazy scheme for sending South American missionaries all over the world. It was surely a Lamanite-centric approach, but with little hope for miracles, or even for the bloodshed he craved. And the temporary increase of baptisms in the Hermosillo mission was accomplished through mass hypnosis, not the Holy Ghost. Thousands a month are coming to Christ, so now we know President Kimball is a true prophet, the greatest ever! But almost all of the supposed converts fell away.

Kimball's desperation and general superstition also accounted for his obsession with excommunicating members from the church. They must suffer, there must be a deep inner cleansing (said in that graveyard voice of his.) If the church didn't cleanse itself of sinners and apostates, then maybe the entire church was guilty. So then the "Lamanites" could kill them all!

He was a sick, morbid, hateful man.

I remember those Lamanite years. It all seems like a joke, now that we have the DNA results.

If we had had the internet back in those years, I'm sure that I would never have joined the church. There was nothing to warn me about what these "prophets" were like. I had no reason not to believe that Lamanite prophecy junk.

Some of what's in that description seems off the mark, Historischer.


> The desperation and fanaticism of the Kimball
> years (1974-1980, when he was still conscious)
> reflected the fact that Book of Mormon prophecies
> about the "Lamanites" weren't really happening. So
> the mighty prophet, ordained before the
> foundations of the world for just such a time as
> this, had to try to make them happen.

Kimball wasn't desperate. He was supremely confident. He was sure that expanding the missionary program and simplifying the lessons (part of correlation) would allow the church to flourish; he thought simplification was necessary because the church was growing so fast around the world. Indeed, 1974 to the early 1980s were the high-water mark in terms of growth. Things didn't turn south till he was intellectually gone.


--------------
> To try to force the pure magic Mormon solution in
> which Lamanites accept the Gospel en masse and
> then murder all the American gentiles, Kimball
> conceived a crazy scheme for sending South
> American missionaries all over the world. It was
> surely a Lamanite-centric approach, but with
> little hope for miracles, or even for the
> bloodshed he craved.

Kimball did not believe that the Lamanites were going to draw anyone's blood. That notion is atavistic in the extreme. And the notion of using Native Americans to teach Native Americans was not limited to that particular ethnicity. He advocated the same thing in all parts of the world, since people who understood the local culture and language would be better missionaries than gringos. So there were MTCs set up in Asia and elsewhere.


---------------------
> Kimball's desperation and general superstition
> also accounted for his obsession with
> excommunicating members from the church. They must
> suffer, there must be a deep inner cleansing (said
> in that graveyard voice of his.)

What indication do you have that excommunications increased in the 1970s or even the early and middle 1980s? My sense is that the excommunications of protestors, with such rare exceptions as the priesthood ban ouster, were rare until the late 1980s and early 1990s. Is that wrong?


------------------
> He was a sick, morbid, hateful man.

Yes, although I'd put the focus on his demonization of human sexuality rather than any expectation that Native Americans were going to fulfill D&C prophecy.

The Kimball years are also when the Three Nephites were abroad in the land (or at least in Utah). Those Nephites were busy mowing widows lawns, harvesting crops overnight and hitchhiking around to warn people to get their food storage.
At least I often heard of that stuff happening to a friend of a friend of somebody's uncle.

After the Kimball years, the 3 Nephite stories seemed to fizz away. I wonder why?

Shinehah Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Kimball years are also when the Three Nephites
> were abroad in the land (or at least in Utah).
> Those Nephites were busy mowing widows lawns,
> harvesting crops overnight and hitchhiking around
> to warn people to get their food storage.
> At least I often heard of that stuff happening to
> a friend of a friend of somebody's uncle.

Haha! I forgot about that. Maybe it's the three Nephites who are making the crop circles. Haha!

The fall of the iron curtain (former USSR) in the 1990s was supposed to cause a membership explosion. We know how that turned out!

Also, the coming of the information super highway was supposed to reel in millions of more members!

Those are two that I remember hearing about.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2018 03:53PM by messygoop.

messygoop Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The fall of the iron curtain (former USSR) in the
> 1990s was supposed to cause a membership
> explosion. We know how that turned out!
>
> Also, the coming of the information super highway
> was supposed to reel in millions of more members!
>
> Those are two that I remember hearing about.

Oh the Russians flocked to Christianity. The Russian Orthodox church. With US/Russia relations on the skids, I doubt many Russians would want to join an American church.

The Iraq war was supposed to open up the Middle East, once that darn Saddam was out of the way.

Or so thought mormon Sen. Gordon Smith (R-OR).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_H._Smith

https://www.opb.org/news/article/mormon-leaks-video-oregon-senator-gordon-smith/

Currently the members of the church are listening to some old fool telling them they are on the greatest mission of all and that is to gather Israel. Haha! Got to find them lost tribes. Haha! It never ends.

Josephina Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am also reminded of the way that women are
> devalued in Mormonism. They had a period when
> there were plenty of women in the ward, but very
> little priesthood.

Apparently, Kimball was a prophet and now is women's time since they are the ones joining.

https://www.heraldextra.com/special-section/lds/fall2018/lds-church-sees-growth-coming-from-women-leaders-say/article_0a51c996-c93b-527e-8641-06862ee92049.html

I am sure that there's legion of women just dying to come into a church that embraces 1950s norms and expectations.

My goodness, sisters can't even be trusted to hold their own meetings without a priesthood holder.

(no titters please) when Henry D. Moyle was so sure that Europe was going to go Mo that he bet Churchco's lunch money on it. Unfortunately (for him), it didn't happen, and he was exiled in disgrace.

As-Yogi-Berra-said-"Predictions-are-hard-especially-about-the-future"-ly yrs,

S

Churchco™ wins with brainwashed TBM's either way: If church grows, the stone rolls forth over the whole world (or whatever that saying is).

OTOH, if the church shrinks, then even the very elect will deceived and the core of the very righteous will be saved by God (or something like that).

suspension of disbelief.

The emperor is constantly strutting around buck naked for all to see.

The house of Mormondumb is piled high with failed policies, failed doctrines and failed prophecies. You can't step anywhere without stepping on one. Open the cupboard and a dozen come tumbling out. Open the refrigerator and the shelves are groaning under the weight of containers full of moldy, rotting teachings and doctrines that were past their expiration date before you were born.

All of the current leaders trace their authority and priesthood back to a "prophet" who worshiped the wrong guy. He thought some guy named Michael (nicknamed "Adam" for a short while) was the god to be worshiped. He literally didn't know God from Adam. Seems like it would be a problem. But in Mormondumb it apparently is no biggie. "Hey, prophets are human too, you know. If the one guy who is God's most authorized spokesman on earth -- the guy who is the prophet, the seer and the revelator for God to all of humanity -- mistakenly worships a guy who is not god, why do you have to make such a big deal out of it? It's not like it is essential to your salvation to worship god instead of some guy who liked frolicking around wearing a fig leaf over his naughty bits. It's the kind of mistake any prophet could make."

Mormons are hooked on Mormonism like Harry Potter fans are hooked on Harry Potter movies. You can't enjoy the movie unless you turn off the part of your brain that keeps trying to remind you of the obvious fact that it's not real.

Those kids are not really flying around on brooms and the wands aren't really magic. Those men in suits are not really getting special messages from God and do not have magical priesthood powers. In both cases, they're just actors hoping you will be entertained enough by the illusion to keep paying the price for admission to the show. (You get a better deal with the Harry Potter movies.)