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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 03:18PM

So sad. Plus, there's an article in today's Trib that there's a 6-8 week wait to see a BYU counselor. What the Hell? Is this just ChurchCo management refusing to accept that there's a lot of depressed kids at BYU? This is unacceptable.

https://www.sltrib.com/news/2018/12/05/after-public-suicide/

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 03:39PM

Poor thing.
19 years old and the only way she saw was suicide.

The Mormon church is not much help, even if there wasn't a 6 week waiting list to see a therapist.
They always try to apply faulty Mormon doctrine to serious problems, which rarely helps and often hinders even more.

So sorry for this girl and the people who loved her.

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Posted by: Roy G Biv ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 03:45PM

Tragic story.

>> "The university, which is owned by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is also considering whether it needs to address the architecture of the Tanner Building, which it closed about 90 minutes after the incident. For now, the school plans to divert students from the open walkways and overlooks, noted spokesman Todd Hollingshead. There was a death by suicide in the building about nine years ago, Jenkins said."

Yep, the building is the problem. Get rid of open walkways and overlooks and the problem is solved!

>> "He and the event speaker, church apostle David A. Bednar, encouraged students to focus on ”good tidings of great joy” and seek counsel from God."

More wise counsel for those affected by this tragic event. Just focus on Christmas and say your prayers and you'll be fine.

Move along folks, nothing to see here.

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Posted by: Elyse ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 04:18PM

That suicide 10 years ago was in the same spot.

If my memory is correct it was by a 23 year old gay male who found himself in a 3 mos. marriage to a straight partner.
Of course, he could not make it work.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 04:22PM

They can put up cargo nets like Foxconn.

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Posted by: numbersRus ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 06:50PM

Editorializing the full name of the Mormon Church:

The school, which is owned by The Church supposedly of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...

The school, which is owned by The Church which claims to be of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...

The school, which is owned by The Church alledgedly of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...

The school, which is owned by The Church ostensibly of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints...

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Posted by: Cristina ( )
Date: December 07, 2018 10:46PM

The Salt Lake City library has a similar architecture and several suicides since it was built too. It really is a problem. People sometimes seek to make a public display when committing suicide. Buildings with easy access to a ledge and an area below where people will see do attract people contemplating suicide.

I saw one at the library in SL just after it happened. The public needs to be protected from these traumatic and even dangerous events as well.

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 03:53PM

In the comments, one person wrote that Utah needs to follow Florida's lead by creating a law that would plaster "In God We Trust" all over schools and universities. 8 people already gave this idea a "thumbs up".

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Posted by: StillAnon ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 04:20PM

Go back and reread the comment. The poster was pointing out the absurdity of Florida's posting "In God We Trust" in schools to deter gun violence. Sarcastically suggesting that that same sign could prevent suicide at BYU. The people that gave it a thumbs up, were agreeing it was a stupid plan.

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Posted by: Hockeyrat ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 03:57PM

Poor girl. I wonder if she tried to get help earlier, but was told to wait 6 weeks or to have more faith.
6 weeks is inhuman. A lot of problems need to be addressed immediately. When you’re hurting, 6 weeks is forever. It might be too late by then anyway.

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Posted by: Elder Berry ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 03:58PM

In God we flush...bad news shall come and pass. Thoughts and prayers are encouraged for moral(e) hygiene.

Edit: Got posted in the wrong place. Was supposed to be to MessyGoop.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2018 04:01PM by Elder Berry.

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Posted by: Anonymous Today ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 04:11PM

Mormon doctrine significantly contributes to this problem; specifically, the problem of taking mental health seriously and establishing professional mental health services at BYU.

There are two deeply ingrained assumptions in Mormonism that are built into Mormon faith and doctrine: (1) That depression is related in some way to sin, or at least a lack of commitment and/or the living of Mormon values, i.e. it is a spiritual problem; and (2) that a person's Bishop is the best source for spiritual counseling, and not secular professionals.

Given these assumption, why do they need professional counselors? Every student at BYU has access to their Bishop, who can tell them just what they need to do; repent and go to the temple!

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 04:57PM

Yes.

Remember that McConkie called psychology the church of the devil. And he was right: guilt and cognitive dissonance reinforce the church's power. Anything that reduces that pain undermines the church's sway over the individual.

The church wants its members constantly to feel a certain degree of internal tension. If the tension goes too far, people die--which the church does not want--but if the tension dissipates, people leave.

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Posted by: summer ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 05:09PM

College kids are in what is often a very vulnerable stage of life. Counseling for them should be a priority. My public elementary school is staffed with counselors at a rate of 6X what BYU offers.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 05:16PM

Yes, one of my local colleges is like that. A few years ago someone got angry and hurt some people, and the university reacted by massively increasing counseling resources.

Given the stresses of adolescence and young adulthood, such a policy is essential. Making people wait for help is irresponsible.

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Posted by: thedesertrat1 ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 06:23PM

I have seen this in the faces of lady missionaries working in my ward area. Behind their painted on smile is doubt and terror. I have on occasion told them. "If you are hungry and broke come by my house and 30 minutes later you will be out the door and fed." Even if you are not broke I'll feed you. NO hidden ajenda. Just help!

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 06:30PM

so, so horrible

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Posted by: exminion ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 06:36PM

My sweet, beautiful TBM niece committed suicide, a few weeks before she was to graduate at BYU. She was intelligent, and graduated early from high school, and started BYU at age 17. The previous year her bishopric father divorced her mother and immediately moved in with one of the women he had been having affairs with, and had little contact with his children, after that. He was excommunicated. When the divorce was final, a year later, her RS president mother had plastic surgery and liposuction, and married the Mormon "catch" of the whole city, a wealthy doctor, who was a High Priest. Niece was lost in the shuffle, and was left wondering why she had been at BYU for 4 years, and wasn't able to find love. Whenever those relatives would say that the niece lacked faith in Mormonism, I would say, "Did you read her note?"

It was all in the note--all the female helplessness in a polygamous male-dominated cult, the angst, the lack of self-esteem, the crazy mixed-up Mormon hereafter, the MorGod and Mormon parents who do not love unconditionally.

So very, very tragic!

I was a psychology major, for a few semesters, at BYU, and went to counseling, out of curiosity, and I was lost, when my "Golden Boy" TBM boyfriend cheated on me. I left counseling, very angry. At the time, they were using the Carl Rogers technique, that was nothing but listening. "Yes. I see. Elaborate on that." I was stuck at BYU for financial reasons, and kept my studies in the fields of business and science, after that. I graduated from there, still single, and it took a year after, and every summer vacation during, to recover from the BYU experience. Maybe you would have to go there yourself, to fully understand the despair in Provo. I would never recommend BYU to anyone, even if they were offered a full-ride scholarship. It's not a healthy place.

I would suggest they use some of the gay shock-therapy equipment and wire the Tanner Building railings with that. What is BYU going to do, assign senior missionaries to a "railing guard mission"?

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Posted by: csuprovograd ( )
Date: December 05, 2018 11:03PM

I went to BYU in the seventies. I was less than devout (read: never went on a mission). I went because it was an affordable pay-as-I-went option in my quest for a bachelor’s degree, which, as a child growing up in the sixties was THE ticket to a successful career. (Turns out that it was not.)

Anyway, this suicide gave me an opportunity to reflect on how I managed to survive in that environment.

After the first semester I KNEW I was not going to fit in.

I didn’t realize it at the time, but in retrospect, I survived by assuming a second persona - one for the BYU required image - the other was ME as I wanted to be. Of course, it was not easy to shut myself off during all BYU related activities and focus on playing the part of a typical zoobie.

I was withdrawn and very un-social. It was hard to socialize while playing the part of my BYU alter-ego.

Weird, unproductive and a waste of years, but I got better at it and managed to survive with my mind relatively undamaged and intact.

Perhaps this is a technique that should be taught as a suicide prevention method...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2018 11:10PM by csuprovograd.

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Posted by: Justin ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 04:38AM

Reading the article it looks as if counseling at BYU is more available per student than Utah, Utah State and Utah Valley State.

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Posted by: ificouldhietokolob ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 06:07PM

Justin Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Reading the article it looks as if counseling at
> BYU is more available per student than Utah, Utah
> State and Utah Valley State.

Yes, but that's not saying much.

And none of those other schools have the infamous "honor code," or spies looking to find you sinning and rat you out, or the oppressive mormon doctrine invading every class...

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Posted by: robinsaintcloud ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 10:11AM

One of my practice sites is not far from BYU campus and I get a lot of students as clients who are not interested in going to campus therapy services. For some it is the long wait. For others it is for confidentiality concerns. For others, they tried it already and were not that enthralled with it.

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Posted by: ExMoCounselor ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 12:09PM

I'm a counselor in a private practice, primarily with students from UVU and BYU. I can attest that there is a lot of pain from the LDS-saturated culture of perfection, expectations of dutiful service and shaming to "return to the fold."
One of the most maddening experiences I had as a member was a bishop (who also worked high-level in CES as his day job) stood at the pulpit and told young married students that they didn't need psychological help - just the gospel.
I confronted him after and shared my thoughts on his sermon. "Anyone in counseling right now is going to feel ashamed of being there and anyone considering getting help, won't go now." He backpedaled, trying to explain that this wasn't his position, nor intention. "But that's exactly what YOU JUST SAID from the pulpit!" Was there a course correction, retraction or clarification the following week? Nope. Revelation? Certainly not.
Why do we tell young people that they take care of themselves and then reinforce that "you're broken" if you need help? That's the definition of masochism! I'll own my bias here but Holland's talk on mental health in 2013 is the best thing he's ever said...he got 80% of the way there to supporting professional help, despite using the word "broken" in the title. Truly love one another and don't fear getting help! You aren't broken, you're human!

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Posted by: stillanon ( )
Date: December 06, 2018 01:12PM

" "But that's exactly what YOU JUST SAID from the pulpit!" Was there a course correction, retraction or clarification the following week? Nope. Revelation? Certainly not."

That's exactly the problem with taking any advice, legal, marital, medical, financial, etc. advice from your neighborhood dentist, accountant, realtor, etc. whom god "called" to be a bishop. Plus, when things go South, it's not the church's fault, it's the fault of the "unpaid, lay clergy". Plausible deniability. What a sham.

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Posted by: Atari ( )
Date: December 07, 2018 01:03PM

I went to a church sponsored therapist. I doubt it would have helped her. What she needed was a professional therapist not bound by the Mormon's f-ed up teachings.

Sad story all around.

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Posted by: gemini ( )
Date: December 08, 2018 08:44PM

There was an article in the SLTrib today about a vigil held for her by the Native American/Polynesian students on campus. They stated that she was Native American and that many of those students feel excluded on campus. Also stated that her very public suicide was part of that dynamic.

I wonder when or if her name and funeral arrangements will ever be disclosed.

This is just such a sad, tragic story on so many levels.

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