The REAL $64,000 Question is...

How soon in the near future before that "going-rate" will need to be adjusted upward for inflation???

And just which TITHING slush-fund is that HUSH money going to be paid out of???

Enquiring Minds want to KNOW!!!

Or so it seems to me...

That was the claim of Grant Palmer (now deceased) author of "An Insider's View of Mormon Origins" (which by the way sold in Deseret Bookstores for five years). Palmer worked for CES for 35 years. He lost faith after the Mark Hoffmann bombings/forgeries, proving that "The Brethren" did not have the supernatural "Spirit of Discernment" to know that Hoffmann was selling them bogus forgeries. This happened in 1986.

After that, Palmer started studying anti-Mormon books, for the first time. He no longer "trusted" that "The Church" would always tell the truth. He realized that Mormon "Prophets" are just "men" and "men" will "LIE" for many reasons: to save face, to protect the family name, to protect an organization they loved. Simple as that.

Palmer claimed in "Mormon Stories" interviews, that a Member of the First Quorum of Seventy, and a Mission President, visited him once a month, and told him:

1) They read his book.
2) They no longer believed in Mormonism
3) They remained in the Church for family reasons
4) One of them "knew" that the First Presidency and Apostles "didn't believe it" but "keep up appearances" because of family and financial reasons, and that every new Apostle was given 1,000,000 dollars to pay off his debts, and, if he leaved the Church, the 1,000,000 would be "owed back" to the Church.

Palmer never named the two men, saying he could not "out" them because they asked him "not" to out them.

Is Palmer's claim credible? Well, Palmer never had a "history" of lying (like Joseph Smith did, Brigham Young did, Gordon B. Hinckley did, Jeffrey Holland does, etc.).

But, the claim remains only a "claim". Only a "rumor" at this point. Hopefully, it can be proven true or false, one day, by Mormon Leaks, who come out with a document. But, remember, the Church has ingenious ways to keep things "undocumented" these days. The Church has been greatly embarrassed by "paper trails" and prefers now to NOT leave any.

Palmer has a history of lying? Could you be specific?

I wrote:

"Palmer never had a history of lying"




Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> Palmer has a history of lying? Could you be
> specific?

Thanks. I misread you.

There is no transparency as to the dealings between the Apostles and the corporate entities that constitute "the Church."

$1 million wouldn't be that much in the overall scheme of things (an ambiguous receipt in a massive, complex temple construction project, or a vaguely worded expense "reimbursement" here or there or a few of them adding up to $1 million), particularly since in any given year there may be no new apostles called or only 2 or 3 at the most.

And it would not be only $1 million. The stipends are well into the six figures. They apparently also have generous expense accounts and church credit cards. Pensions, health insurance? Check. Free tuition at Church schools for the kids. (Probably tuition support at non-Church schools too.) And with nepotism being what it has always been, the apostles are probably in a position to throw a lot of cushy jobs and contracts to friends and family members. (I saw that crap going on even with minor-league Mormon royalty. It must be several orders of magnitude more intense at the apostle level.)

I've always thought that at least the majority of the top leaders know it's a fraud. They know that they're not talking with Jesus in the temple. They fight with each other about policy, so they know that they don't have any kind of magic, divine inspiration. They know that Brigham Young literally did not know God from Adam, but was the top prophet guy for an entire generation and was basically the founder of the church in Utah.

Joseph Fielding Smith was the son of Joseph F. Smith. The son didn't baptize a soul on his mission to England, and most of his companions requested transfers or just simply "walked away" from him. He was insufferable. Mellowed with time. But his father got him a job in the Church Historian's Office, because Joseph Fielding Smith literally couldn't "do" a real job. I think he probably had a mental illness. Then Joseph Fielding Smith was made an Apostle at a pretty young age. Again, nepotism. His father wanted his name-sake "employed for life". On one hand, one must condemn the Nepotism, but, on the other hand, it was a father concerned about the future of his son, who couldn't do "anything" right.

What did Joseph Fielding Smith "do" in the Church Historian's Office? Not much, at all, I'm told. He just read a lot. He also tracked down people to get them to "donate" their ancestor's Nauvoo journals to the Church. Thank God for that. You think Joseph Smith Jr. looks bad NOW? I've seen a few excepts from some of those Nauvoo journals. Wow! Rasputin looks like a Saint next to Joseph Smith Jr.

Rumor is that Gordon B. Hinckley wanted to call his son as an Apostle, but his Counselors said "Over our dead cold bodies". So, the Hinkster relented. Just a rumor.


Wally Prince Wrote:
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> There is no transparency as to the dealings
> between the Apostles and the corporate entities
> that constitute "the Church."
>
> $1 million wouldn't be that much in the overall
> scheme of things (an ambiguous receipt in a
> massive, complex temple construction project, or a
> vaguely worded expense "reimbursement" here or
> there or a few of them adding up to $1 million),
> particularly since in any given year there may be
> no new apostles called or only 2 or 3 at the
> most.
>
> And it would not be only $1 million. The stipends
> are well into the six figures. They apparently
> also have generous expense accounts and church
> credit cards. Pensions, health insurance? Check.
> Free tuition at Church schools for the kids.
> (Probably tuition support at non-Church schools
> too.) And with nepotism being what it has always
> been, the apostles are probably in a position to
> throw a lot of cushy jobs and contracts to friends
> and family members. (I saw that crap going on even
> with minor-league Mormon royalty. It must be
> several orders of magnitude more intense at the
> apostle level.)
>
> I've always thought that at least the majority of
> the top leaders know it's a fraud. They know that
> they're not talking with Jesus in the temple.
> They fight with each other about policy, so they
> know that they don't have any kind of magic,
> divine inspiration. They know that Brigham Young
> literally did not know God from Adam, but was the
> top prophet guy for an entire generation and was
> basically the founder of the church in Utah.

Rusty's Left Nut Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------


>
> Rumor is that Gordon B. Hinckley wanted to call
> his son as an Apostle, but his Counselors said
> "Over our dead cold bodies". So, the Hinkster
> relented. Just a rumor.
>
They did make him a General Authority (Seventy), which was probably enough to lock in key benefits. I remember at the time that Papa Gordon made the following ridiculous disclaimer:

"I make it clear that I did not advance his name. That was done by others whose right it was to do so. I feel extremely sensitive about the matter of nepotism. As the lawyers say, I recused myself from participating. However, I believe he is worthy and qualified in every respect. In the first place, he had a great and wonderful mother. I wish I could recommend his father.

"I mention this only because of my sensitivity concerning the matter of nepotism. Please do not hold it against him for his relationship to me. He's powerless to help it."

It was a classic non-disclaimer disclaimer. Basically recommending his son while saying that he felt "extremely sensitive about the matter of nepotism." I'm sure he did feel sensitive about it. And it's probably true that he did not advance his son's name for the Seventy position. That was probably a compromise that he had to accept when the proposed apostleship was shot down.

When he arranged for his son-in-law, Bruce R. McDonkie, to essentially inherit JFS's own apostle slot immediately following JFS's death.

I think money can be worked around with bankruptcy. Protecting their family from the Mormon Mafia, not so easy.

If the brutal under of a journalist can be excused for a nebulous promise of 500 billion in trade then certainly a million can buy plenty for a minor church.

Presumably they sign a non-disclosure agreement, nothing illegal about that although some people like to call it hush money.

BUT considering that this is a fricking church and all their money came from tithing, it just is not right.