Most programs for young men do not succeed as well as Scouting has. Chances are that if the Church starts another program, that program will not succeed as well, either.

The new program will require a lot of time and dedication from young men. It will be hard for young men to also participate in Scouting, since the new Church program will require so much time. (If the new program does not require much effort, it will seem frivolous.)

To be effective, the new program should be similar to Scouting. It will have to borrow a lot from Scouting, but it will not be able to use certain names, etc. It will not be able to use the title "Eagle Scout". It will not be able to used "Life", "Star", "First Class", "Second Class", "Tenderfoot", or "Scout". It will have to come up with different names for these ranks. It won't be able to use the Scout motto, slogan, law, or oath. It will have to come up with its own.

It won't be able to use the Scout Handbook. It will have to write a new book. It won't be able to use the term "merit badge". It will have to create new requirements for whatever replaces merit badges. It will have to find new names for Cub Scouts, Webelos, Arrow of Light, Bobcat, Wolf, Bear, etc.

Adult leaders will be pressured into it by the Church instead of joining for other reasons alone. Leaders who feel pressured won't do as well as adult volunteers who don't have the same pressure.

Scouting has a long and inspirational history. It will take awhile for the new program to develop its own history.

The Church will have to figure out what to do with boys who already have merit badges and ranks. Can the boys transfer their achievements to another program, or do they have to start over from scratch? What if becoming an Eagle Scout has always been a long term goal for them and they have already put much effort into obtaining that award? What does the Church do with 17-year-old boys who are close to earning their Eagle but don't have enough time to start a new program from scratch?

How will the Church handle boys who watched their older brothers advance through Scouting? How will the Church handle men who loved Scouting as boys and always wanted their sons to have the same experience?

The new program might have to "fine tune" itself, going through many changes. The Scouting program is tried and true and hasn't had many basic changes for a long time.

Boys in the new program won't be able to call themselves Scouts. They will have to use another name.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/18/2018 08:53PM by behindcurtain.

The key ingredient is support from competent, dedicated and responsible adults. There have always been a lot of crappy boy scout units. The BSA affiliation never has added any magical ingredient.

My first year of scouting was ridiculous. We went through three different scoutmasters due to uninspired "callings" being made to incompetent people who were not ready to commit. Then a few older men in the ward (stellar reputations, highly accomplished) stepped in to rescue us and we had a really great program from then on.

The BSA has no monopoly on any of the activities that are emphasized in scouting. There is no need to copy the names of ranks or even use the same kind of ranking system. It's easy enough to set skill-mastery goals and give appropriate awards and recognition.

Unfortunately, most people these days increasingly rely on behemoth national and international organizations to do everything for them..give them programs, detailed instructions. Normal human self-reliance and creativity have atrophied as a result. Of course, if the Church centrally plans an imbecilic one-size-fits-all program for everyone, it will fail.

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The key ingredient is support from competent,
> dedicated and responsible adults. There have
> always been a lot of crappy boy scout units. The
> BSA affiliation never has added any magical
> ingredient.
>
> My first year of scouting was ridiculous. We went
> through three different scoutmasters due to
> uninspired "callings" being made to incompetent
> people who were not ready to commit. Then a few
> older men in the ward (stellar reputations, highly
> accomplished) stepped in to rescue us and we had a
> really great program from then on.
>
> The BSA has no monopoly on any of the activities
> that are emphasized in scouting. There is no need
> to copy the names of ranks or even use the same
> kind of ranking system. It's easy enough to set
> skill-mastery goals and give appropriate awards
> and recognition.
>
> Unfortunately, most people these days increasingly
> rely on behemoth national and international
> organizations to do everything for them..give them
> programs, detailed instructions. Normal human
> self-reliance and creativity have atrophied as a
> result. Of course, if the Church centrally plans
> an imbecilic one-size-fits-all program for
> everyone, it will fail.

Very true. The church used to run at the ward and stake level and now everything runs out of Salt Lake. It all boils down to people. Some wards could put together a decent program and others would fail. It all depends on how motivated and innovative the people involved are.

I think we have to remember Scouting was invented by a British military officer who wanted a youth program for boys that would prepare them to serve in the military if needed. Eagle Scouts get a higher pay rate when they join the US military.

I think the church's program for boys will be similar to the young women's program. It won't be as involved as Scouting. There will be no uniforms or ranks or all the badges. It will be a week of camp in the summer. Various activities during the year. Some community service and charity projects. The boys will probably get a medallion of some kind if they are good boys and jump through all the hoops. The church already has a program. It's called Young Women's. They just need to adapt it to boys. They can get the Moroni medallion or something.

If the church is smart, they will create a similar program to the existing scouts, with only a mild religious base and mostly focusing on other worthy life and survival skills. Then allow anyone from any religion or no religion at all, to be members in it. It would be a great missionary tool that way, and could assist the church itself to become more mainstream and to be seen by the rest of the world as more mainstream. But no, they will most likely create a freakish cult within a cult, require church membership as a pre-requisite to join, and bombard those involved with way too much religion and few if any real life skills. That is why it will fail.

azsteve Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the church is smart, they will create a similar
> program to the existing scouts, with only a mild
> religious base and mostly focusing on other worthy
> life and survival skills. Then allow anyone from
> any religion or no religion at all, to be members
> in it. It would be a great missionary tool that
> way, and could assist the church itself to become
> more mainstream and to be seen by the rest of the
> world as more mainstream. But no, they will most
> likely create a freakish cult within a cult,
> require church membership as a pre-requisite to
> join, and bombard those involved with way too much
> religion and few if any real life skills. That is
> why it will fail.

The church is more concerned with retaining it's born in church youth more than converting outsiders. The church knows the odds of converting people is pretty poor these days. The whole missionary thing is to make the existing members think they are important and it gives them something to do. I think the new young men's program will be very much like the current young women's program. Heavy on the religion and pressure to have a testimony instead of how are coming along towards getting your eagle? Oh if Russel Nelson has a lot of say in the new program it will be cult crazy.

The Boy Scouts program was only really used in the US so to most outside of the US nothing changes!

The property n for group camps will be the part they can't replace to any significant degree. If they go for an outdoor orieneted group.

But I ecpect the program will have only a token outdoor aspect.

Where we were, I don't recall ever using property owned by the BSA for our troop outings. Our leaders always made arrangements with state parks, national parks and other public lands. There also were a couple of times when we camped on privately owned land with the permission of the owner. So, at least in the area where we were, the BSA didn't really provide much that was really needed.

I think there were a couple of things that I went to that were big regional events for scouts and those were on scout lands, IIRC. But they were my least favorite activities. Just a lot of hokey games and busy work.

Like the Masons and the Elks Club and Sears, the BSA was already an anachronism in decline. It was frozen in the 1950s. When it tried to modernize to survive, the LDS Church, also frozen in the 1950s, cut their ties.

LDS Inc and the BSA are both in trouble.

Hey, here's an idea:
Dads, do stuff with your sons.
And daughters.

Take them camping, teach them to build a fire, fish, backpack.
Talk to them about being good, kind, honest people.

There you go, the "Scouting program" replaced.
And it's not hard.

"Scouting has a long and inspirational history."

Long, yes. Inspirational...debatable.

I guess that a person's view on Scouting depends on the type of experiences one had. I had some positive ones because of dedicated leaders that truly loved getting outside and knowing how to foster/mentor scouts. What got in the way was that these men couldn't do it when their hours changed at work. Then there were others that weren't the rugged outdoor-sy types that did their best.

I grew up during the correlation years, and scouting had a budget of 10 bucks or some trivial amount. I am not kidding. A lot of my time as a Scout was soliciting funds for camp and to buy troop equipment. I remember going from door to door on Saturdays in light industrial shops trying to sell advertisement space for the ice cream social that my troop would run in the summer. Repair shops and other "blue-collar" businesses were extremely generous. I remember selling the entire page to a popular well drilling company. Conversely, law offices, doctor clinics and dentists were terrible. Despite the out-of-church fundraising, members were still called in behind closed doors to support the "Scouting fund."

So what else did I peddle?
-lightbulbs
-home made pizza (yuck and more yuck)
-bake sales
-Amway-like products
-gardening gloves and tools

Now one final word that killed the program in my ward. The bishop refused to give recognition to the ym that were advancing in scouts. (He also wouldn't give recognition to the youth that were doing well in school).

However, ther was recognition for those that went on youth temple trips.

The church attempts will come to naught, and wiser minds shall determine it is prudent that boys will camp with boys, and girls will camp with girls. And it will come to pass that these things shall not be spoken of, much as the stories of times when men had more than one wife no longer befoul the tongues and hearts of the righteous.

The church had young mens programs in the past. I'm sure Rusty was part of them.

There were the Van Guards and the M-Men.

The church "Duty to God" award can continue.

Were any of the women folk here Golden Gleaners?

I can't recall all the names of the old programs.

Pioneers.

Soothsayers

Junior Ministers

Gods & Goddesses in-waiting

Curelom wrangling and cumom riding certificates will be a highlight.

Nobody else had better touch my curelom herd!

I don't think they will be replacing it at all. It's gone, for good.

They may produce some sort of home-based "handbook" for families... and that's it.

would they sponsor or allow basketball competition, say between wards & stakes?

someone in Morland loves (loved?) Basketball.

U know, co-ed to encourage the youth to associate withing the tribe.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2018 04:35PM by GNPE.

I'm too old to get a "Brewing and Distilling" merit badge.

I can't imagine it being much different than what the girls do except it will be a little more geared towards "manly" type things. I guarantee it will be a much more watered down version of the BSA but much more boring and more churchy.