Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
If it helps save lives from DUI, then it's a good move.
Now if Utah would lower its speed limit from 85 mph to 65, that would save even more lives!
Now if Utah would lower its speed limit from 85 mph to 65, that would save even more lives!
This will "kill" tourism. And likely make it so they will never get the 2030 Winter Olympics.
.05 is likely too low. I remember a long tome ago that a judge just swishing bourbon in him mouth and spitting it out blew over the limit in CA. Their limit is (was) .05 to .10. >.10 was automatic go to jail. Between .05 and .10 it was at the discretion of the officer.
Having said all this, I personally have no tolerance for drunk drivers.
.05 is likely too low. I remember a long tome ago that a judge just swishing bourbon in him mouth and spitting it out blew over the limit in CA. Their limit is (was) .05 to .10. >.10 was automatic go to jail. Between .05 and .10 it was at the discretion of the officer.
Having said all this, I personally have no tolerance for drunk drivers.
DaveinTX Wrote:
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> This will "kill" tourism. And likely make it so
> they will never get the 2030 Winter Olympics.
but they want and deserve the Olympics again, just ask the MORmONS!!!!! ...LMAO !!!!!!
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> This will "kill" tourism. And likely make it so
> they will never get the 2030 Winter Olympics.
but they want and deserve the Olympics again, just ask the MORmONS!!!!! ...LMAO !!!!!!
In my state the deaths from drunk driving continue to increase despite strict limits, this is because it is so difficult to get a DUI conviction now only specially trained troopers even arrest them.
The lawyers have made it so there is almost always a way out of a conviction. So I doubt Utah's strict limits will make much difference.
The lawyers have made it so there is almost always a way out of a conviction. So I doubt Utah's strict limits will make much difference.
you are completely discounting the (heavy handed) way that the law is enforced in Utah, a cited person is guilty until proven innocent !!!
I recently had a person hit my vehicle with his vehicle, we were both going the same direction, He told the cops that I hit him. The problem for him was that his mirror was folded backwards in the after math of the collision, now think about that for a minute !!!!! and it was photo documented by the police. regardless of that fact the police cited me (largely because I refused to kiss their .....badges) instead of the other guy who really kissed their @$$es. It took me 6 months to beat the ticket. and I had to hire a professional forensic accident evaluator to do it. it was more expensive than just paying the fine. .......yes there is going to be a law suit!!!!
I recently had a person hit my vehicle with his vehicle, we were both going the same direction, He told the cops that I hit him. The problem for him was that his mirror was folded backwards in the after math of the collision, now think about that for a minute !!!!! and it was photo documented by the police. regardless of that fact the police cited me (largely because I refused to kiss their .....badges) instead of the other guy who really kissed their @$$es. It took me 6 months to beat the ticket. and I had to hire a professional forensic accident evaluator to do it. it was more expensive than just paying the fine. .......yes there is going to be a law suit!!!!
I normally feel okay to drive on one drink, but I'm not sure I would do this in Utah anymore. The tables say I would be okay, but that's an awfully low limit.
In Japan its considered impaired to drive if only one drink. It has a zero tolerance for drinking and driving. One drink is the equivalent to .03 on the sobriety test. So with Utah's now being .05 that's not even two drinks to make that level.
It's a low threshold to cross. May be a good thing. There's already a ton of DUI's in Utah. This new law is going to increase that tenfold.
It's a low threshold to cross. May be a good thing. There's already a ton of DUI's in Utah. This new law is going to increase that tenfold.
Jesus Amy-where to start? First, most people in Japan don't have cars. Second, in the cities everything is crammed together, people walk a block to shop, eat and drink. Japan has beer, sake and alcohol vending machines every few blocks. No ID required, but severe penalties for minors caught using an alcohol vending machine.
Next, there is no, none, zero, drink equivalence ratio to alcohol BAC. A hundred pound woman, that rarely drinks and on an empty stomach could possibly be at .05 after one drink. A 250 pound guy, after eating a full meal and is a moderate to heavy drinker, may have 4 drinks or more and still be below .05. Utah has THE lowest DUI death rate in the country. We have very few DUI's compared to other states. Cops are very aggressive, especially LDS cops that think drinkers are sinners (more reason for punishment). Cops will tell you that .05 is undetectable. Studies show that a sober, texting person is as impaired as someone at .08. This .05 BS is to harm innocent people, hurt alcohol selling establishments and show the country who is in charge of this state. It's bullshit. It's already harming tourism. Utah-come on vacation-leave on probation!
https://www.sltrib.com/artsliving/2018/12/29/an-incentive-not-come/
Next, there is no, none, zero, drink equivalence ratio to alcohol BAC. A hundred pound woman, that rarely drinks and on an empty stomach could possibly be at .05 after one drink. A 250 pound guy, after eating a full meal and is a moderate to heavy drinker, may have 4 drinks or more and still be below .05. Utah has THE lowest DUI death rate in the country. We have very few DUI's compared to other states. Cops are very aggressive, especially LDS cops that think drinkers are sinners (more reason for punishment). Cops will tell you that .05 is undetectable. Studies show that a sober, texting person is as impaired as someone at .08. This .05 BS is to harm innocent people, hurt alcohol selling establishments and show the country who is in charge of this state. It's bullshit. It's already harming tourism. Utah-come on vacation-leave on probation!
https://www.sltrib.com/artsliving/2018/12/29/an-incentive-not-come/
....wow! .....so you are saying that Utah can not readily be directly equated with Japanese culture .....???? (puzzled look on my face!!!) REALLY ????? ....!!!!!
(good one, LMAO!!!! )
(good one, LMAO!!!! )
A LOT of people drive in Japan.
Tourism is alive and well there, including among the locals.
Large cities there is heavy traffic.
Small cities and villages people rely on cars more than mass transit.
Regardless, sobriety tests are not that much different from .03 to .05%.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2018 08:53PM by Amyjo.
Tourism is alive and well there, including among the locals.
Large cities there is heavy traffic.
Small cities and villages people rely on cars more than mass transit.
Regardless, sobriety tests are not that much different from .03 to .05%.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2018 08:53PM by Amyjo.
The answer depends on one's viewpoint. In the US in 2017, there were 270 cars for 326 million people (including kids, invalids, etc.). That is a ratio of 83%. In Japan there are 69 million cars for 127 million people, or a ratio of 54%. That indicates that Japan has substantially fewer cars.
Those data, however, make Japan look a lot more "mobile" than it actually is. Japan is roughly the size of California, with several times the population. If you check a population map, furthermore, you'll see that the vast majority of Japan's people (and its businesses and tourist destinations) are confined to a very small amount of land. What that means is that most driving is local: total miles per auto, and miles per person, would be much lower than in the US.
That fits with the culture, of course. Very few people choose cars over public transportation in the cities (where the vast majority of people live), and for the same reasons most people travel by train or air when going further afield. There are not many rich countries where autos are less favored than in Japan.
It is easy to get crowded roads when your available land is tiny relative to your population and vehicle fleet. Imagine California if 3/4 of its land were mountainous and it had four times the population. LA and other dense places would be much worse than they presently are--and people would react by demanding better public transportation so they didn't have to drive as much.
Those data, however, make Japan look a lot more "mobile" than it actually is. Japan is roughly the size of California, with several times the population. If you check a population map, furthermore, you'll see that the vast majority of Japan's people (and its businesses and tourist destinations) are confined to a very small amount of land. What that means is that most driving is local: total miles per auto, and miles per person, would be much lower than in the US.
That fits with the culture, of course. Very few people choose cars over public transportation in the cities (where the vast majority of people live), and for the same reasons most people travel by train or air when going further afield. There are not many rich countries where autos are less favored than in Japan.
It is easy to get crowded roads when your available land is tiny relative to your population and vehicle fleet. Imagine California if 3/4 of its land were mountainous and it had four times the population. LA and other dense places would be much worse than they presently are--and people would react by demanding better public transportation so they didn't have to drive as much.
A large percentage of cars in Japan are company cars used for service visits. Personal car ownership in Japan is much below 50%. I presently own a car in Japan.
That's true in Tokyo--and probably one or two other major urban areas--but not nationally. Nationally the ratio of passenger cars to households is 1.06.
Company cars are unlikely to make much of a difference in those numbers since the base number is 69 million. If you assume there are 2 million company cars, which is surely an overestimate, the ratio of cars to households would still be above 1.
Another way to look at this is the percentage of people who have driving licenses. For men, the number is in the low 80s; for women, the upper 70s.
I am confident that miles/person would be vastly lower than the US since although cars have long been a status symbol, driving them is not a prominent cultural phenomenon.
https://www.ft.com/content/6951ec5e-a1d8-11e7-8d56-98a09be71849
Company cars are unlikely to make much of a difference in those numbers since the base number is 69 million. If you assume there are 2 million company cars, which is surely an overestimate, the ratio of cars to households would still be above 1.
Another way to look at this is the percentage of people who have driving licenses. For men, the number is in the low 80s; for women, the upper 70s.
I am confident that miles/person would be vastly lower than the US since although cars have long been a status symbol, driving them is not a prominent cultural phenomenon.
https://www.ft.com/content/6951ec5e-a1d8-11e7-8d56-98a09be71849
The majority of European countries are .05 or below. The UK is the only one I read with .08.
True. In Germany, it's .05. But then, there's much better public transportation in Germany.
It's meaningless. I've arrested many DUI's under the old .08 law. Most that exhibited impairment driving and on sobriety tests were .10 or more. I'm 74 and know that I'm more impaired that a younger healthy person at .08.
I was driving on the highway last week and saw a car weaving badly. I thought the first time I saw her close to the center line, and subsequently jerk back to the center, would be enough, but evidently not. When I passed her and gave her a gentle honk, she was looking down intently at something -- her phone? A GPS? Whatever it was served as a major distraction for her. And my honk evidently made no impression. She didn't even look up. :(
in Utah or some other state ??
most any metric isn't universal in its significance.
I don't know the details about driving impaired / alcohol, but isn't every law in Ew-tah a behind-the-curtain thing with Rusty & his cohorts making the big decisions?
After a few years stats will tell us, but in the meantime...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2018 08:26PM by GNPE.
I don't know the details about driving impaired / alcohol, but isn't every law in Ew-tah a behind-the-curtain thing with Rusty & his cohorts making the big decisions?
After a few years stats will tell us, but in the meantime...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2018 08:26PM by GNPE.
I agree with Barnupcrik. It is meaningless, other than as a tool to harass drivers stopped for other reasons. If they were texting, changing radio channels, or had two kids fighting in the back seat, or were driving while black, they get pulled over for a swerve (or for the hell of it), they get a breathalyzer, and if they blow .05 or more, they get a fat citation.
Unless there is some other underlying problem, nobody's driving should be visibly dangerous and impaired at 0.05. Usually, the erratic drunk drivers are well above 0.08, sometimes by 2 or 3 times that higher limit. The 0.08 limit wasn't the problem.
That said, I visit Canada a lot, where I believe the entire nation has a 0.05 limit. Maybe I hang with a conservative crowd up there, but the number of drinks I have seen the driver have is 0 to 1, never more, and more often than not, it is zero.
I have mixed feelings. It is clearly possible to cope with a 0.05 limit. OTOH, the amount of actual impairment is minuscule, and there are several other far more serious causes for impaired driving (age, illness, upset, weather, kids fighting in car, phone alert, etc etc etc)
Unless there is some other underlying problem, nobody's driving should be visibly dangerous and impaired at 0.05. Usually, the erratic drunk drivers are well above 0.08, sometimes by 2 or 3 times that higher limit. The 0.08 limit wasn't the problem.
That said, I visit Canada a lot, where I believe the entire nation has a 0.05 limit. Maybe I hang with a conservative crowd up there, but the number of drinks I have seen the driver have is 0 to 1, never more, and more often than not, it is zero.
I have mixed feelings. It is clearly possible to cope with a 0.05 limit. OTOH, the amount of actual impairment is minuscule, and there are several other far more serious causes for impaired driving (age, illness, upset, weather, kids fighting in car, phone alert, etc etc etc)
Those who worship alcohol (most people) will cite all sorts of reasons we should excuse drinking and driving.
Sure there are other causes of accidents - go after them all. People not paying attention should get serious penalties. People don't get it.
Few take DUI's seriously. I've heard many guys laugh about their DUI's.
Last week some of my guys were late to work after going around a 3 car accident. One guy said he saw them doing CPR on the person who died. Anyway, news said a guy on his 3rd DUI hit somebody on the side of the road, knocking them into oncoming traffic and got killed.
People say drink responsibly, but once you drink, you lose responsibility. One shouldn't even start drinking where you might need to drive.
Sure there are other causes of accidents - go after them all. People not paying attention should get serious penalties. People don't get it.
Few take DUI's seriously. I've heard many guys laugh about their DUI's.
Last week some of my guys were late to work after going around a 3 car accident. One guy said he saw them doing CPR on the person who died. Anyway, news said a guy on his 3rd DUI hit somebody on the side of the road, knocking them into oncoming traffic and got killed.
People say drink responsibly, but once you drink, you lose responsibility. One shouldn't even start drinking where you might need to drive.
"People who worship alcohol" ... this is so true. Not only with drunk driving, but alcohol in particular in many situations. People always want to defend alcohol.
I've posted studies online about dangers of alcohol, and drinkers freak out about them. There's a huge drinking/alcohol culture and people lose their minds if you point out maybe alcohol isn't the best thing.
Occassionally I drink, but after I've learned so much about it, I start to wonder what the point it's
I've posted studies online about dangers of alcohol, and drinkers freak out about them. There's a huge drinking/alcohol culture and people lose their minds if you point out maybe alcohol isn't the best thing.
Occassionally I drink, but after I've learned so much about it, I start to wonder what the point it's
it's .05 here in Canada....and the police now require that anyone they stop, blows into a breathalyzer whether they suspect you of being DUI or not.
The legal limit in AZ is .08, but that is overridden if the cop decides that you are "impaired to the slightest degree".
You can, in theory, blow a .01 and still be cited for DUI. I suspect it would take some convincing evidence to make a sub .08 citation stick, though.
The new limit in UT shouldn't be a problem if you're having just a drink or two with dinner. Heavier drinkers and smaller people are going to have to be careful, though.
You can, in theory, blow a .01 and still be cited for DUI. I suspect it would take some convincing evidence to make a sub .08 citation stick, though.
The new limit in UT shouldn't be a problem if you're having just a drink or two with dinner. Heavier drinkers and smaller people are going to have to be careful, though.
in most states, breathalyzer is only part of the picture,
walking a straight line, finger to nose, etc are just as valid indications of driving impaired...
walking a straight line, finger to nose, etc are just as valid indications of driving impaired...
In Australia it is 0.05 everywhere, having being brought down from 0.08 some decades ago. We have similar landscape to the US, lots of car usage, particularly at night. Road toll is still too high, but I think there was an immediate reduction when the limit came down. We also have random breath testing, where lines of cars are stopped for a breathalyser at any time of the day on a stretch of road where it is impossible to turn around if you spot the cops.
If you are going out for a night out, there is a designated driver in the group who will not drink. Take it in turns. That is now the accepted practice.
The limit is low, but its basically used to get that message across. Don't drink at all if you are going to drive. Ubers are also available. The low limit just reinforces the culture of responsible driving.
If you are going out for a night out, there is a designated driver in the group who will not drink. Take it in turns. That is now the accepted practice.
The limit is low, but its basically used to get that message across. Don't drink at all if you are going to drive. Ubers are also available. The low limit just reinforces the culture of responsible driving.
A stone in the smokey hat for BA's .o5 and below. Same for .08.