Hello everyone, my husband and I are trying to move to the SLC area soon. Currently, we live across the country in a politically conservative and religious area. We’ve visited all over Utah at least a couple of times a year for the past 4 years and are very well versed in the Mormon culture as well as the church’s beliefs, policies and procedures and what it’s like to be an ex Mormon living there and the challenges you extremely brave people face regularly.
I personally have studied the above mentioned for at least 20 years so in that respect, though it will still be a culture shock, Utah is where we want to live at in this stage in our lives. In addition, we have many close friends who live there and being near them would greatly enrich our lives. Our friends in Utah consist mostly of ex mormons, liberal mormons as well as some biblical Christians. We are in our late 30’s, have no children (don’t want any) and neither of us have ever been Mormon or have family that is.

Bottom line, the main question is can any of you please give me some tips and general information about what my husband is up against in getting hired and not being a Mormon? To be intentionally vague, he works in construction and has an impressive resume and with almost two decades of solid work experience. In the last week, he’s had two large companies in SLC reach out to him. We anticipate this will soon lead to him flying out there for at least one follow up interview soon. Any advice (besides don’t move to Utah) would be wonderful. I’ve read over the years that if you aren’t LDS it’s very difficult to get hired and if you are, some companies make the work environment not so great. While my husband doesn’t want to misrepresent himself, it would however be comforting to know what to expect.
Input from you all would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

This may sound stupid.

Wear a T-shirt under his regular shirt. It can give that impression he's wearing garments.

On the bright side.....Salt Lake county is heavily democrat. Just elected a democrat to congress. Salt Lake City mayor is openly gay. Mormons are actually a minority.

Good luck.

I would suggest that Salt Lake City is really the only option, but with your husband's business, I'm guessing a lot of the work would be elsewhere in Salt Lake or Utah Counties.

Right now I'm sitting in my parents' living room, and I mentioned this thread to my Jackmormon mother, and she brought up a recent article on how powerful the LDS Church is. All of the politicians are Mormon, period, and even though politics is an area of interest to me, I limit my "activism" to some areas involving conservation, etc. and I'm still horrified at the influence people like, say Don Peay, have.

The challenge for you would be to build a circle of friends, mostly non-LDS, and get you needs met and find enough satisfaction without unrealistic expectations.

I wish you well...

I think your husband is going to have to feel companies out in the interview process. I don't think he should try to pass for Mormon at all. He might try to test the waters to see about a particular company's tolerance level. He can ask about diversity in the company. He can ask for a tour and check the break room for a coffee maker or for coffee cups on desks. He can keep his ears open for typical topics of conversation (hopefully not church, callings, etc.) If the chance comes up perhaps he can casually mention that he's looking forward to hitting the slopes on Sundays -- something like that.

To sum it up, I think he should present himself for who he is, and see how the company managers react. He should check to see if there are like-minded people.

I can tell you that my brother, during his career, was a project manager and EVP of a construction management firm. He did very high profile projects nationwide. You would know his projects. I never knew him to bid on a project in Utah. Perhaps things have changed in the past few years. Speaking generally, I do know that there are companies in the SLC area that are very friendly to non-Mormons. Your husband's challenge will be to find such a company.

My advice? Don't.

By the mouth of 2 or three witnesses...

My half-nephew who is a couple years older than me (his mother was closer to my mom in age than I am,) lives and works in SLC his entire professional career as a non-Mormon. He is Catholic. Was raised Mormon until his dad died, and his dad's parents made it contingent he and his siblings be raised Catholic to be able to receive the trust fund their father left them. So my half-sister obliged his grandparents by capitulating to their demands. The trust fund put him through Univ of Utah and an athletic scholarship.

After college he stayed on in SLC where he is still with the same employer he started with more than 40 years ago. He may be retired now. Last time we spoke was when my half-sister was dying a decade ago. He's never felt put upon because he isn't LDS. He did well in his profession.

My never Mo grandmother and grandfather made their home in Ogden and Weber County while raising my mom and her siblings. They made their lives there. Had friends, socialized, volunteered. Travelled.

It's easier today to be a non-Mo than it was back then. Utah has become much more diverse in the past generation or two. Mormonism is diminishing in its influence. There's lots of jobs in the Salt Lake City area from what I can tell. Once you start applying (or your husband,) you should be able to find something up your alley.

Best wishes on your search.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2019 08:25PM by Amyjo.

My stepsister who was raised LDS but married Catholic, raised her children Catholic also.

Her husband was in construction for his career. Her son is now in construction, and majored in it in college. They've lived in the Morridor for most of their working lives.

It hasn't slowed them down that her son or her husband worked in construction as Catholics (or some other religion besides Mormonism.)

Bottom line is if you're good at what you do, as previously mentioned, there are ample opportunities in the Salt Lake area. I've looked at job opportunities there myself. If not for my civil service job where I live, I'd pull up stake today and relocate back west.

If the companies are large and in Utah, they will probably be intimately connected with the Mormon church. They will certainly be involved in some of the church's building projects. The owners may be involved in shady dealings with the church to get special deals on contracts. Maybe relatives of G-15 folks.

Just don't be surprised.

slskipper Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the companies are large and in Utah, they will
> probably be intimately connected with the Mormon
> church. They will certainly be involved in some of
> the church's building projects. The owners may be
> involved in shady dealings with the church to get
> special deals on contracts. Maybe relatives of
> G-15 folks.
>
> Just don't be surprised.


While the Mormon Church does have it's go-to "Mormon" contractors the owners are not likely to be involved in shady dealings with the Mormon church. The Mormon church building department does everything it possibly can to get the lowest bid possible. However, many people in the building department mistakenly believe that their three or four go-to contractors are giving them the lowest price because of the "Mormon" connection. In reality these companies pad their bids to the Mormon church because they are a notoriously difficult client.

I used to live in Utah and worked in construction. He will most likely work for a non-Mormon owned company and the clientele will be mostly not Mormon. This automatically eliminates about half of the customer base.

Working Construction? there is no trouble at all. In fact Mormons generally stay away from physical labor, they do better in white collar bureaucracies, or working in government facilities that spy on people.

If your husband is Hispanics or speaks Spanish this would be an added bonus since lots of people working construction are from Mexico. I would be surprised if he had any kind of trouble from employers at all.

Now as for getting along in the upper middle class world of suburban Utah, that's a whole different story. If your short on cash then Bountiful is the place to be, it's beautiful and very convenient to the city. And has good traffic through town, lots of small stores locally run. It's the best in the State for small businesses and innovative, smart people that thrive in a local market. Most other cities in Utah are either too big, too run down, too many poor people, too inconvenient, or too overrun with big box stores, etc...

I've heard that Zwick Construction (from Craig Zwick, GA) has the monopoly on temple [money laundering] construction. If that's one of the companies he's interviewing with, it's almost certainly ubermormon and he may want to consider running away.

My father in law and several of my cousins, and some close friends of mine from high school worked or work in the construction industry in Salt Lake, Davis County, Ogden and Cache Valley. My view is most of their coworkers were completely tolerant of non mormons, and most of the mormons were Sunday only mormons, meaning they drank coffee and beer with their coworkers and thought the Church was crock. If he wants LDS building jobs in Provo/Orem might be a different story.

just stay away from the Mormons, they ask you if you masturbate and practice oral sex. don't go to their church because if you do deny requests for interviews. they are a sexually driven religion and are obsessed to an unhealthy degree. it is a very weird state. you will wake up everyday their and feel like you are in a twilight zone. Colorado is a mountainous state and is very beautiful minus Mormons, live there instead. I think you are making a mistake.

I lived there for a few years, I was told I should not be working around young 12 year old girls because I wore a crucifix necklace. I left for Colorado and have never crossed the border again. it's like you are leaving the USA and going to a foreign country.

One time I took my dog for a walk in my neighborhood wearing pants and dress shoes and a tank top with a bra. I was told by one the neighbors that by doing that, it would give her 13 years son bad thoughts. These people ARE BATSHIT CRAZY. I caution you to stay away.

DON'T


JUST DON'T


RELAX; DON'T DO IT

WHEN YOU WANT TO COME.

C
A
K


E

Frankie Goes To Hollywood
It doesn't come to him!

M@t

Don't see any problem. Maybe research what companies work directly for the church, someone mentioned Zwick already, and avoid those companies. I have plenty of non and ex mormon friends who work in construction and are very successful all over Utah.

Why would it be difficult to get hired if two companies are already trying to entice him to join them?

I've met some of the nicest, friendliest people while on vacation in Utah. Whether they were LDS or not, no one invaded my privacy while I was there. People went out of their way to be polite and helpful.

I wouldn't worry too much about naysayers. You need to do what's right for you.

I've had non-members in my family live there like my never Mo grandmother without a problem.

My Jewish great grandmothers migrated there 100 years ago from Omaha. There are app 5,000 Jewish people living in the SLC area who practice their religion. It isn't all Mormon.

There is quite a bit of diversity there. If it weren't so, SLC wouldn't be the 7th gay capitol in the USA. You heard that right. Plus, it elected its first ever gay mayor last time around.

It's making progress in terms of keeping up with the rest of the country. I see SLC as a rather hip place to live and work, especially if you're young and starting out.

You are aware of the situation. You are not going to be blindsided but will be surprised at how pernicious the Mormons are in controlling the government and making laws that would be considered ridiculous in any other state.

According to different polls I have seen SLC is about 45 to 50 percent Mormon now but only 28% active Mormon. There is a long steady decline happening. The rest of the state gets more Mormon as the cities and towns get smaller.

The scenery is stunning. Lots to do that has nothing to do with Mormonism. I have lots of family in Utah. I haven't lived there for forty years but when I did live in SLC back in the day when it was doubly Mormon, I still found plenty to do, a good job, and lots of fun easy going people. Like attracts like.

It's more about you than it is about them. Some people are good no matter where they are and some just don't have the right tools.

Done & Done Wrote:

> According to different polls I have seen SLC is about 45 to 50 >percent Mormon now but only 28% active Mormon.

For what its worth, I have been there for a conference and toured around the area sightseeing with a Muslim limo service owner.

He agreed SLC was only 50% MO, and as an obvious non-Mo he said he had never had a problem living there but said it was different in the suburbs which were almost 100% Mo.

What I noticed most about the MO influence there were two things. Downtown was very clean and walkable unlike many large US Cities.

And there was apparent censorship of TV shows because while I could receive the same networks and channels as I did in California, some of my favorite, more ribald shows, were not shown.

No big deal. Mormons are a big boogie man to non Mormons and ex Mormons looking for a reason to complain about their lives. I grew up in Chicago, moved to Salt Lake 45 years ago as an “inactive” Mormon and never been held back in life by Mormons. Every society has its dominant power structures within the local culture. You learn how to cope.

Utah’s economy is strong with lots of in migration. It should be good for construction. I was in the Real Estate business for over 40 years as a “jack” Mormon and was considered to be successful. You’ll be fine.

get into construction here than a lot of other jobs, although I would just research who runs the company to see if they are mormon.

I've worked with many mormons. Some were absolutely wonderful. Others not so much. My mormon boss that I had for 20 years treated me exceptionally well.

It really often depends on the person.

Thank you everyone for all of the helpful responses. I really appreciate it!

I moved to Utah from Northern California a few years ago. I've had no issues from Mormons, or non-mormons, in the time I've lived here. I have tattoos, I have relatives who are mormon, and some who are jackmormons, and lots of non-mormon friends I've made here.

Utah today is a lot more accepting of non-mormons than they were in the 80's and 90's when I visited as a child. Sure, there are a few older folks who wrinkle their nose at the smell of coffee, or glare when they see a tattoo, but mostly, I don't pick a fight with them, and they leave me alone.

Salt Lake City is ideal for people on their way up. For teen-agers, good after-school, weekend, and seasonal ski jobs are always available. The SL Community college and the University of Utah are well-suited to kids who have to work their way through. All of my children live in our same neighborhood, and they're married with three children, each. Their children are going to the same schools they went to, and they have not yet had problems with Mormon bullying. Their schools have a lot more diversity, these days, which helps.

As a young adult, I had great non-Mormon mentors, in my career. My SLC employer actually paid for my advanced education! There are good not-Mormon companies in SLC, plus, more Mormon companies are wanting to hire more "diverse" personnel. Even Mormons don't like too much church gossip and schmoozing in the workplace. Summer is right--be yourself!

After graduating from the U of Utah, one of my sons went into business with his best friend, a Mormon who left the cult on his mission, and their business is thriving. Most of the colleagues they hired are non-Mormon, because, to be honest, some Mormon employees are not very honest, not very hard-working, not very focused on their jobs, not very realistic, not very social or polite. A lot of Utah employers have experienced this. That's why you need to be yourself--you don't know what an employer is looking for, in the way of character. My own mentor did not hire Mormons (though it's illegal to say so). Another big business owner I know in Silicon Valley will not even look at resumés of BYU graduates. No one talks about this stuff. My son's company is National, and virtually all of their clients are from outside of Utah.

My other son found permanent work with the SLC company he had been working for, to put himself through the U and grad school. This was a Mormon family-owned company, and when he could see that the Mormon relatives were in line for the same promotions, he left and got a better job with a NATIONAL company. They had better benefits and retirement plans, as well as better salaries. Go National, if you can.

BTW--do not work for the State of Utah. As the other posters said, Mormonism is in control of the politics. The morale in State offices is the worst!

The Utah housing market is pretty good for buyers, even though prices are on the rise, like in most other places. Your investment in a house in SLC will probably increase at least 5% a year, perhaps more. Both my sons happened to not get married until they were almost 30, but in the meantime, they saved, and bought very nice SLC houses, a few blocks from me. My daughter and SIL live here, too, and my SIL's entire family. Community events are family events. Nice people. I'm glad the Mormons keep to themselves. You aren't imagining or accusing, because, as a group, Mormons can be very rude and aggressive. That is their reputation. They are the third rudest drivers, next to NYC and Miami.

Bountiful is too Mormon for me. So is Provo. So is Draper. Park City would be my first choice, for a non-Mormon area, and I spend a lot of my time there. It's overpriced, though, but probably worth it.

The less-Mormon areas of SLC are closer to downtown. Some are expensive, but not as expensive as fancy neighborhoods in Draper, for example. Federal Heights, The Avenues, Indian Hills, St. Mary's areas close to the University are mostly non-Mormon. For smaller houses and apartments, Sugar House and the Highland area is good, but is getting more expensive. Stay above 700 East in South Salt Lake, to avoid higher-crime areas. In general, neighborhoods with smaller houses appeal to non-Mormons. Mormons need big houses for their big egos and big families. My Provo, Bountiful, and Draper Mormon relatives have 8-10 kids, and three families have 12 children each!

Holladay is ideal. Like most of SLC, the farther East you go, the more expensive and larger the houses are. Holladay has good schools, and a healthy socioeconomic mix. It's only 20 minutes from everything, even South Valley, where there's likely to be more construction. IMO, no one needs a 3,000 sf house (except for my relatives).

Sandy is mostly non-Mormon now. The the past few years, Three wards, that I know of, have been phased out into oblivion. Sandy has been voted an "ideal place to live" several times over the years. It's further south than Holladay, and, therefore, less expensive than Holladay. Good schools. Shopping. Hospitals. Parks. Transportation. Low crime. Skiing 20 minutes away. But, I have always loved the suburbs!

Main advice- consider moving to Idaho, Washington, Colorado, anywhere BUT Utah.

If you insist on moving to Utah, you need to be aware of the possibility of becoming Utarded. Overexposure to the state and its inhabitants can cause a decrease in brain activity, panic attacks when crossing the state line, increased prejudice against non-Utahans, aggressive driving (understatement), overinflated ego, and belief that Utah is the center of the universe.

Utahans loathe anything/anyone different. Outsiders, colored shirt wearers, people who drink coffee are to be shunned in the Utah mentality. Although construction companies may be willing to overlook these.

Also, avoid the town of Tooele AT ALL COSTS! The locals treat non-Utahans with outright hostility. You might find work, but lose your mind in Tooele.

Wow. As a native Utahn I agree with some of what you stated . utah drivers are not aggressive but they are extremely stupid and have no idea what a turn signal is . Tooele is one of the least Mormon towns in Utah and is a dump but not sure about the unfriendly attitude to non Utahns . I would not live in utah County ever . Salt Lake City itself has become very non Mormon. Few of my neighbors are Mormon as a resident of SLC . Yes the Mayor is gay and I don't care but IMNSHO she is incompetent and has a horrible hairstyle . Utah is like any other place some good some bad . if you enjoy outdoor recreation like skiing hiking river rafting fishing etc its an excellent place. Temperature inversions suck . Utah Legislature really sucks . I'll probably retire in Las Vegas because I am sick and tired of cold and like smoking marijuana and I love warm even hot weather . I have a great job and that's why I stay in SLC for now . You mentioned Idaho ??? I'll take SLC over Pocatello , Idaho Falls , freaking Rexburg any day

I was forced to live in Tooele for a year. Hostile is how non-Utahans were treated by the locals.

I spent most of my life in Idaho, so I'm biased to liking it. The skiing, hiking, and fishing are just as good (at least) as Utah. Idaho just doesn't spend a fortune on PR like Utah does. Now if Idaho would stop trying to emulate Utah politics. . .

I love love love southern Utah. It's so beautiful I think I can tolerate just about anything there.

My realtor cousin who lives there told me just last night they anticipate a slight housing shift in prices to stabilize the market as the prices have been on an upswing and need to stabilize downward over the next couple years. That is encouraging news.

Lots of advice on not coming, but if you do, areas to consider living in...
Downtown SLC.
Sugar House.
Nowhere real close to a temple, like within the temple neighborhood.
There are some areas in Sandy, Draper, that have lots of non-mos living in close proximity. Explore those on your own, on Sundays to see if there is a major herd mentality on Sundays..

If you had kids, I would be on the big NO bandwagon, but since you don't, it's not that big of a deal.

For the interviews, do NOT act mormon. Ask and talk about what you like to do on Sundays, skiing, wine-tasting (if that's your thing), hiking, golfing...on Sundays. This may want to weed your husband out of the mix if the employer is TBM, or they may have great ideas for Sunday activities and where to go.

I personally think you're not seeing the big picture here.I moved back to Utah in 2012 thinking it would be okay. It's honestly not because of the politics.But if you enjoy having faaaar right crazy mormon political figures running things, then maybe Utah it your place. For me, it has been a personal hell moving back here. The amount of control TSCC has over the laws around here is not only ridiculous, but sick, sad, and accomplishes nothing. The public schools are horrific as well. My daughter was ahead by almost 2 full school years when we moved here. She ended up being bored with no friends because we're not mormon. It took her 3 years to find good friends around here. 6 years later, we still hate Utah and wish we had never moved back, but right now I'm financially stuck to this POS place. Please be realistic about coming here!

good now. There is a big difference between visiting Utah and friends and living, working with and for mormons. My wife hated working with them. They would hire white shirt men out of the wards with no experience and expect her to train them in her job to eventually take over because she was not mormon. Our first year back we were so excited about Halloween. Turned all the lights on, bought a lot of candy and waited. All night long, all the kids and parents passed us up and rang doorbells on either side of us. We were not Mo and not in their ward. This is just an example of the nasty culture. Happiness was seeing the Kennecott smoke stack in the rear view mirror for the last time.

I'm curious as to which construction companies your husband is interviewing with?

Layton, Okland, and Jacobsen, are the largest "Mormon family owned", SLC based companies and can have a little bit of a Mormon vibe. It is my understanding that Dee Livingood, founder of Big-D Construction, was not Mormon. All of these companies are so large and diverse they hire based on qualifications, not religion. If they have reached out to your husband, you can be sure it is due to his construction experience and qualifications.

If he is interviewing with Bodell Construction I could give you a lot more information - not sure if that's the case as BCC is not really considered to be a "large" construction company... more mid-size.

As for living in Utah, I would agree with most of the experiences and advice given here. However, as adults without children you shouldn't have a problem as long as you have ready friends and a support group as you have mentioned.

Living with children in Utah can get complicated as the schools and children friendly neighborhoods are largely Mormon and your non-Mormon children will likely get shunned. Our ex-mormon daughters were shunned when we lived in SLC suburbs but they ended up making the best lifelong friends with other shunned non-mormon girls in the neighborhood. Our sons fared better with some neighborhood Mormon children due to their common interest in science, computers, video games, etc.

One major drawback - Utah valleys have extremely polluted air year-round now. When we lived in Park City we loved the sun and fresh air. We also love the incredibly beautiful recreation areas of Utah.

This experience by Mav is sad because adults can shrug off something like that but being shunned on Halloween is something that would hurt little kids.

Utah is such a beautiful place. How sad that it was taken over by the cult.

A lot of very interesting thoughts and experiences here, everyone sharing, gave me lots to think about. I wasn't planning to move there but now for sure would not, sadly.

Just remember the social caste system there:

1-Mormon
2-Non mormon, but religious
3-Non mormon, not religious
4-Inactive mormon
.
.
.
10-Ex mormon

danboyle Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Just remember the social caste system there:

Yes, and I'll add what I observed:
>
> 1-Mormon, Rich, with wife and kids
>>1a. Mormon, married with kids, middle class
>>1b. Mormon married couple, no kids, but active
>>1c. Mormon, unmarried male
> 2-Non mormon, but religious
> 3-Non mormon, not religious
> 4-Converts
>>4b. Unmarried female mormon convert, tithe-payer or not
> 5.Inactive

> .
> 9. Someone who asks questions in Sunday School
> 10-Ex mormon



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/26/2019 05:32PM by mel.