Recovery Board
: RfM
Recovery from Mormonism (RfM) discussion forum.
Its been pointed out frequently how tscc is run like a corporation with a president and board making management decisions at the top and demanding compliance from everyone downstream.
They even idolize the typical salary-man uniform of the 1950s, (white shirt, tie, slacks and a jacket)
And we've all seen the mormon-leaks where the old dudes try to figure out the best strategy for handling apostacy and lack of commitment.
But, for all the business bluster, they seem to forget that they have customers... they have a product. AND NO ONE WANTS IT.
there are 14 million mormons, but less than a third are considered active. Active meaning, showing up at least once a month sitting in the pew. This doesn't mean believing, enjoying, or participating in any real way other than showing up.
Yet, they never look at the product. Why is no one interested in their product? They are so focused on trying to get the sheep to behave that they forget that people gotta be interested in the first place.
What does mormonism have to offer the world anymore?
They even idolize the typical salary-man uniform of the 1950s, (white shirt, tie, slacks and a jacket)
And we've all seen the mormon-leaks where the old dudes try to figure out the best strategy for handling apostacy and lack of commitment.
But, for all the business bluster, they seem to forget that they have customers... they have a product. AND NO ONE WANTS IT.
there are 14 million mormons, but less than a third are considered active. Active meaning, showing up at least once a month sitting in the pew. This doesn't mean believing, enjoying, or participating in any real way other than showing up.
Yet, they never look at the product. Why is no one interested in their product? They are so focused on trying to get the sheep to behave that they forget that people gotta be interested in the first place.
What does mormonism have to offer the world anymore?
Good question.
I think the Mormon cult has given up on this, entirely.
They have moved from giving people false promises, to threatening them! Psychological studies show that fear is a greater motivator than reward.
My children and I found Mormons to be opening threatening, bullying, and abusive. Often, however, Mormon threats are hidden under sugar-coated promises.
For example, "The Forever Family." We all know that that is. Yet, temple attendance is down, so the Mormons step it up by telling the minions that if they do NOT get married in the temple and pay tithing and obey, they will be SEPARATED from their family, forever. Little children are taught this, so that they will pester their parents to go to the temple. "Please, Mommy and Daddy, we don't want to be all alone, forever!"
"The Proclamation on The Family" How lovely that is, and let's all hang it up on our wall! What it means is that marriage between gays is evil, and should be feared and hated. Gay marriages THREATEN straight marriages and THREATEN the family (I still don't get exactly how).
Using the name Mormon instead of the full name of the cult is an "affront to Christ." Scary! Mormons know what happens if we go Christ and God and Christ!
When I told various groups of Mormon men (3 bishopric men, the 3 stake presidency, the 2 home teachers, the 2 Mormon neighbors) that I was leaving my calling, none of them used incentives or rewards to invite me to stay. They desperately needed an organist, and there was no one to replace me. I was seriously ill, and they didn't offer me any sympathy. They didn't offer me a "leave of absence", they didn't tell me I would be "blessed" if I continued to serve. Instead, I was THREATENED. They all said I would get sicker, if I quit. They said if I stopped paying tithing (I was unable to work at my job for several months, so no income, no tithing), that I would fail financially. They told me that "God will withdraw His blessings." They even threatened that my CHILDREN would fail in life!
I agree that this negative approach in coercing people into obeying will backfire--at least in countries that value freedom and democracy--at least among people that are not superstitious.
The old manipulative ploys aren't working anymore. There is no "common enemy" (apostates, gays, Catholics, coffee-drinkers, Satan, etc). The Mormons' own leaders are the enemy, and they want to steal their money, by bullying them out of it. There is no Bogey-man Satan who is influencing members to leave. The Second Coming or Apocalypse is not happening any time soon. There is no "outer darkness."
I think the Mormon cult has given up on this, entirely.
They have moved from giving people false promises, to threatening them! Psychological studies show that fear is a greater motivator than reward.
My children and I found Mormons to be opening threatening, bullying, and abusive. Often, however, Mormon threats are hidden under sugar-coated promises.
For example, "The Forever Family." We all know that that is. Yet, temple attendance is down, so the Mormons step it up by telling the minions that if they do NOT get married in the temple and pay tithing and obey, they will be SEPARATED from their family, forever. Little children are taught this, so that they will pester their parents to go to the temple. "Please, Mommy and Daddy, we don't want to be all alone, forever!"
"The Proclamation on The Family" How lovely that is, and let's all hang it up on our wall! What it means is that marriage between gays is evil, and should be feared and hated. Gay marriages THREATEN straight marriages and THREATEN the family (I still don't get exactly how).
Using the name Mormon instead of the full name of the cult is an "affront to Christ." Scary! Mormons know what happens if we go Christ and God and Christ!
When I told various groups of Mormon men (3 bishopric men, the 3 stake presidency, the 2 home teachers, the 2 Mormon neighbors) that I was leaving my calling, none of them used incentives or rewards to invite me to stay. They desperately needed an organist, and there was no one to replace me. I was seriously ill, and they didn't offer me any sympathy. They didn't offer me a "leave of absence", they didn't tell me I would be "blessed" if I continued to serve. Instead, I was THREATENED. They all said I would get sicker, if I quit. They said if I stopped paying tithing (I was unable to work at my job for several months, so no income, no tithing), that I would fail financially. They told me that "God will withdraw His blessings." They even threatened that my CHILDREN would fail in life!
I agree that this negative approach in coercing people into obeying will backfire--at least in countries that value freedom and democracy--at least among people that are not superstitious.
The old manipulative ploys aren't working anymore. There is no "common enemy" (apostates, gays, Catholics, coffee-drinkers, Satan, etc). The Mormons' own leaders are the enemy, and they want to steal their money, by bullying them out of it. There is no Bogey-man Satan who is influencing members to leave. The Second Coming or Apocalypse is not happening any time soon. There is no "outer darkness."
Yup, gay marriage will cause great calamities just like in the past with the flood and Sodom and Gomorrah. Because closetted gays who rise within the church hierarchy can’t come to grips with their own sexuality.
Bullies and their threats. As soon as I stopped taking those threats seriously, the house of cards went poof. And the Wizard of Oz didn’t give me jack.
Bullies and their threats. As soon as I stopped taking those threats seriously, the house of cards went poof. And the Wizard of Oz didn’t give me jack.
“They even threatened that my CHILDREN would fail in life!”
Did they never learn the 2nd Article of Faith? You know, the one about being punished for our own sins?
Of course, you absolutely did NOT sin in that instance, but their corrupted minds saw it that way.
Did they never learn the 2nd Article of Faith? You know, the one about being punished for our own sins?
Of course, you absolutely did NOT sin in that instance, but their corrupted minds saw it that way.
the Church was their home, so to speak. It was their community. It gave them a sense of belonging and a fairly good range of normal social/community activities that made it possible to develop real friendships and social networks.
The "community" things are the things that are frequently mentioned when we relatively old types talk about activities like the road shows, the special dinners, the dance balls, the local congregations developing their own traditions with Christmas parties and such. When I was a teen, our local leaders organized all kinds of activities for us and got us involved in planning and organizing too. Nobody was telling us that we couldn't take the initiative in those things. We had bowling nights, roller skating parties, field trips...just about anything that wasn't ridiculously dangerous or obviously degenerate was potentially doable. From what I've seen, nobody in the local wards and stakes nowadays would ever dare to take initiative in planning anything. They're all just waiting for SLC to send them the next set of instructions.
Then the idiotic bean counters and bureaucrats discovered that they could have more power if they forced all the locals to take all of the money that they used locally and send it into SLC to be micromanaged and redistributed back to the congregations in the amounts that the central leaders and central bureaucrats deemed appropriate. Then they discovered that forcing the local congregations to cut back on all of their community activities and events meant that the central leaders and central bureaucrats could divert all of the loot to fund their own pet projects, so they did that.
When the Church was actually providing for many a kind of community/family/subculture that they enjoyed being part of, they were willing to sweep their doubts and skepticism under the rug. Now that there's nothing really fun that ever happens and it's not really a natural community in any sense (because interactions are scheduled and dictated by handbooks issued by SLC), the younger generations will not have much incentive to ignore the fundamental problems that are inherent in the Church's history and doctrines.
The "community" things are the things that are frequently mentioned when we relatively old types talk about activities like the road shows, the special dinners, the dance balls, the local congregations developing their own traditions with Christmas parties and such. When I was a teen, our local leaders organized all kinds of activities for us and got us involved in planning and organizing too. Nobody was telling us that we couldn't take the initiative in those things. We had bowling nights, roller skating parties, field trips...just about anything that wasn't ridiculously dangerous or obviously degenerate was potentially doable. From what I've seen, nobody in the local wards and stakes nowadays would ever dare to take initiative in planning anything. They're all just waiting for SLC to send them the next set of instructions.
Then the idiotic bean counters and bureaucrats discovered that they could have more power if they forced all the locals to take all of the money that they used locally and send it into SLC to be micromanaged and redistributed back to the congregations in the amounts that the central leaders and central bureaucrats deemed appropriate. Then they discovered that forcing the local congregations to cut back on all of their community activities and events meant that the central leaders and central bureaucrats could divert all of the loot to fund their own pet projects, so they did that.
When the Church was actually providing for many a kind of community/family/subculture that they enjoyed being part of, they were willing to sweep their doubts and skepticism under the rug. Now that there's nothing really fun that ever happens and it's not really a natural community in any sense (because interactions are scheduled and dictated by handbooks issued by SLC), the younger generations will not have much incentive to ignore the fundamental problems that are inherent in the Church's history and doctrines.
Wally Prince Wrote:
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> the Church was their home, so to speak. It was their community. It gave them a sense of belonging
Yes and that was what I hoped to find and after a year of trying could not even come close to getting....
>...our local leaders organized all kinds of activities
Just within the year I was in, stunning shrinkage! Last year, 3 local ward Christmas socials, this year, none. Last year, Wednesdays were crowded with activities, this year no one is there at all.
> take all of the money that they used locally and send it into SLC
Yes, what I saw was that instead of the church organizing anything, the only things organized were in private homes and unless you were friends with them, you wouldn't be invited.
> the central leaders and central bureaucrats could
> divert all of the loot to fund their own pet projects,
Yes. Other churches provide refreshments at functions. LDS makes members pay and bring everything themselves.
I can't understand, really, why anyone new would stay, and the ones who joined when I did, didn't.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 06:09PM by mel.
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> the Church was their home, so to speak. It was their community. It gave them a sense of belonging
Yes and that was what I hoped to find and after a year of trying could not even come close to getting....
>...our local leaders organized all kinds of activities
Just within the year I was in, stunning shrinkage! Last year, 3 local ward Christmas socials, this year, none. Last year, Wednesdays were crowded with activities, this year no one is there at all.
> take all of the money that they used locally and send it into SLC
Yes, what I saw was that instead of the church organizing anything, the only things organized were in private homes and unless you were friends with them, you wouldn't be invited.
> the central leaders and central bureaucrats could
> divert all of the loot to fund their own pet projects,
Yes. Other churches provide refreshments at functions. LDS makes members pay and bring everything themselves.
I can't understand, really, why anyone new would stay, and the ones who joined when I did, didn't.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 06:09PM by mel.
Wally Prince Wrote:
> interactions are scheduled and dictated...
Yes and they tell you between sessions not to linger because they want everyone to get to the next classroom/whatever rather than 'wasting time' socializing...
> interactions are scheduled and dictated...
Yes and they tell you between sessions not to linger because they want everyone to get to the next classroom/whatever rather than 'wasting time' socializing...
I think it comes down to the corporate culture at the top and middle management. It is virtually impossible to change corporate culture even if customers and money are being lost- think Sears or any number of Too Big To Fail corporations. Nothing changes until something drastic happens like a hostile takeover or a corporate buy out and then assets are sold off in pieces to generate capital.
I used to work at a large international corporation and my husband still works there. We have seen the same corporate culture continue to make bad decisions that result in large amount of losses yet they don't change. That is because the corporation is so large and diversified that even if a couple of divisions are losing money, others are keeping the stock prices high and thus the board of directors can keep getting their large bonuses.
It is clear that the BIG 15 and their direct reports are not hurting financially because of all their real estate and stock investments. They really don't need the tithing dollars from the membership to further their own interests.
I used to work at a large international corporation and my husband still works there. We have seen the same corporate culture continue to make bad decisions that result in large amount of losses yet they don't change. That is because the corporation is so large and diversified that even if a couple of divisions are losing money, others are keeping the stock prices high and thus the board of directors can keep getting their large bonuses.
It is clear that the BIG 15 and their direct reports are not hurting financially because of all their real estate and stock investments. They really don't need the tithing dollars from the membership to further their own interests.
LDS, Inc. still has the Fear of God factor to hold over their customers, and huge reserves they've accumulated tax-free, but those may not hold forever.
forester Wrote:
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> Nothing changes until something drastic happens like a hostile takeover or a corporate buy out...
This is funny to think of, some other church/group taking over or buying out TSCC.
And you can bet it would be done in secret and then there would just be a revelation: The Prophet has sold the real estate, please study at home from now on...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 06:14PM by mel.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Nothing changes until something drastic happens like a hostile takeover or a corporate buy out...
This is funny to think of, some other church/group taking over or buying out TSCC.
And you can bet it would be done in secret and then there would just be a revelation: The Prophet has sold the real estate, please study at home from now on...
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2019 06:14PM by mel.
Even Boss Baby could figure that out, but the Templetons (don’t let the name fool you) aren’t LDS.
Emperor-Librarian Wrote:
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> Its been pointed out frequently how tscc is run
> like a corporation with a president and board
> making management decisions at the top and
> demanding compliance from everyone downstream.
Oh Oh But El Dor ..k er uhhhh ASSpostHOLE Bednar says THE (MORmON) Church isn't a corporation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ1uIgbI2QY
> What does mormonism have to offer the world
> anymore?
It has NEVER really had anything of substance to offer people.
Prophets who have NEVER had a real revelation. "Apostles" /ASSpostHOLE who would not recognize Christ if the New Testament messiah whipped them out of their Ivory tower office. Non existent blessing for paying excessive MORmON membership dues. MORmON doctUrine that is BS made out of BS.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Its been pointed out frequently how tscc is run
> like a corporation with a president and board
> making management decisions at the top and
> demanding compliance from everyone downstream.
Oh Oh But El Dor ..k er uhhhh ASSpostHOLE Bednar says THE (MORmON) Church isn't a corporation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ1uIgbI2QY
> What does mormonism have to offer the world
> anymore?
It has NEVER really had anything of substance to offer people.
Prophets who have NEVER had a real revelation. "Apostles" /ASSpostHOLE who would not recognize Christ if the New Testament messiah whipped them out of their Ivory tower office. Non existent blessing for paying excessive MORmON membership dues. MORmON doctUrine that is BS made out of BS.
smirkorama Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Emperor-Librarian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Its been pointed out frequently how tscc is run
> > like a corporation with a president and board
> > making management decisions at the top and
> > demanding compliance from everyone downstream.
>
> Oh Oh But El Dor ..k er uhhhh ASSpostHOLE Bednar
> says THE (MORmON) Church isn't a corporation.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ1uIgbI2QY
>
> > What does mormonism have to offer the world
> > anymore?
>
> It has NEVER really had anything of substance to
> offer people.
> Prophets who have NEVER had a real revelation.
> "Apostles" /ASSpostHOLE who would not recognize
> Christ if the New Testament messiah whipped them
> out of their Ivory tower office. Non existent
> blessing for paying excessive MORmON membership
> dues. MORmON doctUrine that is BS made out of BS.
While LDS Senior Executive management compensation is discussed here a lot, my guess is these director’s seats pay these guys far more than than their “stipend”
-------------------------------------------------------
> Emperor-Librarian Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Its been pointed out frequently how tscc is run
> > like a corporation with a president and board
> > making management decisions at the top and
> > demanding compliance from everyone downstream.
>
> Oh Oh But El Dor ..k er uhhhh ASSpostHOLE Bednar
> says THE (MORmON) Church isn't a corporation.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ1uIgbI2QY
>
> > What does mormonism have to offer the world
> > anymore?
>
> It has NEVER really had anything of substance to
> offer people.
> Prophets who have NEVER had a real revelation.
> "Apostles" /ASSpostHOLE who would not recognize
> Christ if the New Testament messiah whipped them
> out of their Ivory tower office. Non existent
> blessing for paying excessive MORmON membership
> dues. MORmON doctUrine that is BS made out of BS.
While LDS Senior Executive management compensation is discussed here a lot, my guess is these director’s seats pay these guys far more than than their “stipend”
Religion is not their product, just like McDonald's is not really about burgers, it's it's about real estate. The mormon church is a business conglomerate that is about dividends and some of those come, tax free, from members. That revenue stream is drying up so they want to shore it up and diversify.
sb Wrote:
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> Religion is not their product, just like
> McDonald's is not really about burgers, it's it's
> about real estate. The mormon church is a business
> conglomerate that is about dividends and some of
> those come, tax free, from members. That revenue
> stream is drying up so they want to shore it up
> and diversify.
Or grab it personally.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Religion is not their product, just like
> McDonald's is not really about burgers, it's it's
> about real estate. The mormon church is a business
> conglomerate that is about dividends and some of
> those come, tax free, from members. That revenue
> stream is drying up so they want to shore it up
> and diversify.
Or grab it personally.
Very simple process you supply what they demand.
That is their program, they clearly understand supply and demand, they just don't use the model taught in Econ class.
That is their program, they clearly understand supply and demand, they just don't use the model taught in Econ class.
Even my very faithful wife loves the 2 hour meeting. If 2 is great, why not 1? Or none?
ChurchCo has been marketing the same product for generations, occasionally deleting features and call it an upgrade.