All those suits and ties, and dresses and stockings.

Had the people not been so nicely dressed would I have been sucked in so easily? Are the clothes all a part of their Master Plan? To look so outwardly respectable? So NOT like a cult?

for most churches/faiths until maybe sometime after the 1960s.

A somewhat superficial tradition to be sure, but it probably did have some practical consequences psychologically--making things seem more respectable, more important, more dignified, etc.

Dressing up has always been considered an asset for sales people because it gave them more credibility (regardless of whether such credibility was really justified).

That said, I think the LSD Church often takes it too far and, nowadays, with their white-shirt fetish, the fact that all guys are wearing the same solid-white shirt "uniform" can make it seem MORE like a cult.

Image wise, I think they also need to update their missionary dress code. Having twosomes and threesomes of guys going around with matching shirts and name tags looks VERY cult-like. The Mormon missionary look has actually become something of a meme and joke in the past couple of decades. It's one of those long-standing practices that is well past its expiration date. It's not helping their cause, but the top leader guys are so out of touch that they can't see that.

What's really funny is that they are perfectly willing to change things that supposedly were revealed and commanded by God (such as parts of the temple ordinances that have been deleted), but something like the missionary dress code and name tag practice, which has no doctrinal or revelatory foundation, seems to be much more permanent.

Wally wrote:

"A somewhat superficial tradition to be sure, but it probably did have some practical consequences psychologically--making things seem more respectable, more important, more dignified, etc."

Yes, I think it gives respectability where none is warranted.

And I kept wondering if they were long-haired poorly groomed tattered t-shirt wearers with junker cars, would I have been so taken in so easily?

The Missionary uniform is so different from what anyone else wears...I don't know if it's laughable or gives them pride for "being different."

Wally Prince Wrote:
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> Dressing up has always been considered an asset
> for sales people because it gave them more
> credibility (regardless of whether such
> credibility was really justified).

Maybe it was my experience in mormonism, but...

I'm always somewhat suspicious of folks who "dress to impress." The premise being that if their knowledge and skills could impress, the dressing part wouldn't matter...:)

ificouldhietokolob Wrote:

> I'm always somewhat suspicious of folks who "dress to impress." The premise being that if their knowledge and skills could impress, the dressing the part wouldn't matter...:)

I think you're right. Putting on a (false) front.

Here's a clothing rule that rocked one ward.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=exmormo+gloria&iar=videos&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=QxSHQ2qk86k

Topper Wrote:
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> Here's a clothing rule that rocked one ward.
>
> https://duckduckgo.com/?q=exmormo+gloria&iar=video
> s&iax=videos&ia=videos&iai=QxSHQ2qk86k

Topper,

THANKS for this link. I had not heard of this video channel by ex-mormons and spent some time, and will be spending more, watching their videos. This will be great, thanks for posting!!!

Do you learn obedience by conforming or do you conform to show obedience. Or is there even a difference as long as you obey?

Facades are dangerous. The more appealing one is, the more important to look behind it.

They say every cloud has a silver lining. The opposite of that is worth considering as well.

Suits. Ties. Fresh scrubbed faces. Modest (whatever that is) dresses. The appearance of wholesomeness. Every Mormon having the appeal of a crisp apple? It works.

Still, I choose my cakes by their frosting. Life is tricky.

Done & Done Wrote:
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> Facades are dangerous. The more appealing one is, the more important to look behind it.

Great point. I didn't look behind their 'wholesome' suits and dresses to see how they devalued me both as a convert and as a divorced woman---silly me. Then, finally, I did, after much disrespect, "correction" judgment and outright rudeness and hatred.

> Still, I choose my cakes by their frosting. Life
> is tricky.

Yum! Frosting!!! Hahahah.
But not enough thick frosting to hide the Morons beliefs.

Here's a lyric that I just read last night and stuck in my mind. The Holy Ghost must have made it stick in my mind just for you, mel.

"Anybody with a worried mind could never forgive the sight/Of wicked snakes inside a place you thought was dignified . . ."
---Ezra Koenig, Vampire Weekend.

Done & Done Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's a lyric that I just read last night and
> stuck in my mind. The Holy Ghost must have made
> it stick in my mind just for you, mel.

Awww, Done, you slay me, you really, really do!

> "Anybody with a worried mind could never forgive
> the sight/Of wicked snakes inside a place you
> thought was dignified . . ."
> ---Ezra Koenig, Vampire Weekend.

It is so true, visualizing those "shiny, happy people" with their nice clothes, but insinde their heads just poop. Poop heads. (Snakes are too good for them).

Thanks for the thoughts and lyrics, Done!

Once upon a time, when my husband worked for a jewelry store, the employees were required to dress in suits and look like a million dollars even though they were making minimum wage plus whatever commission they could dog fight for. It's the same with looking your spiffiest for church; tithing poor, but rich in image.

valkyriequeen Wrote:
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> dress in suits and look like a million dollars

I wonder if it has been scientifically proven that those clothes enhance credibility (and increase sales).

I'm afraid so!

> the same with looking your spiffiest for church; tithing poor, but rich in image.

Yes the message I felt was being given was no matter how much money I tithe I am still rich enough to have a nice car and clothes and lots o'kids. And I'll make sure you know it!

When I was in college I interviewed at a popular small clothing store that catered to college women. Sadly I discovered that the store expected their clerks to dress in the store's lovely clothes on minimum wage. Even with an employee discount, I knew that wasn't going to happen. That's when I realized that those jobs were not for women who needed to earn a living. They were for women who were looking to supplement their wardrobes and earn a small amount of spending money.

Now the shoe is on the other foot. I am a frequent customer of a rather similar store. I know the clerks are wearing the store's clothes. I have sometimes idly wondered if I might like a part time job there when I retire. And I think, nah, I'm past that. I don't need the inconvenience. I can now easily afford the clothes without need of a discount. And I see the misery on a young clerk's face, as she endlessly folds clothes. The poor thing needs the job.

summer Wrote:
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> Sadly I discovered that the store expected their clerks to dress in the store's lovely clothes on minimum wage.

Yes, it is really weird interviewing at places where they pay you nothing, yet there are a lot of wealthy, beautifully dressed people working there. I had a similar experience interviewing at the Getty Museum in Malibu. Only rich ladies that didn't care how little they were paid, could (and did) take those jobs.

Summer, I am so happy for you that you will not need a job when you retire and you can now buy whatever clothes you like!

Hoisting a glass, to Summer!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/29/2019 07:40PM by mel.

It is, however, nonetheless a great museum in a great building!

Lot's Wife Wrote:
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> It is, however, nonetheless a great museum in a great building!

Yes, and it was interesting to interview there and see the huge amount of items they have behind the scenes that they will probably never have space to display. Very pretty place.

Thanks, Mel! My former "glam" job in a creative field in NYC had some similarities as well. There were simply too many rich women doing it as their hobby, and it depressed the wages for the rest of us.

summer Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There were simply too many rich women doing it as their
> hobby, and it depressed the wages for the rest of
> us.

So many things have been ruined by rich people. Being a musician was another one--rich people buying instruments as 'investments' meant the rest of us could never afford them.

Glad you prospered, Summer!

Sheep in wolves clothing?

Good taste doesn't have to be expensive.

Dressing simply, stylish, and in comfort may not be the mainstay of a Mormon lifestyle. But it's tried and true classic chic in my home.

One takeaway of my Mormon upbringing is I still prefer to dress modestly. But not garment modest.

Isn't there something about 'fine' or expensive clothing being undesirable in ChurchCo scriptures (BoM?)


Oh yeah, they can ignore that too...

GNPE Wrote:
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> Oh yeah, they can ignore that too...

Yes, and then hold up their noses at anyone not in expensive clothing.....

Are blue jeans and flannel shirts good enough for Mormonism? No?
Looks like I’ll be staying home.

If you're going to lie, wear a suit.

olderelder Wrote:
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> If you're going to lie, wear a suit.

Hahahhahah! Yes indeed.

I hope to use this as an analogy.

Yesterday, it seemed like a good idea (at the time) to have my shaggy Havanese trimmed like a Westminster poodle.

Today, he’s looking for an attorney.



To look like something you aren’t just backfires.

kathleen Wrote:
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> my shaggy Havanese trimmed like a Westminster poodle.
>
> Today, he’s looking for an attorney.

Or a sweater, today, depending on where you live!

Most missionaries are so eager just to get a human to visit their church that they downplay the notion that one has to dress to the tee. I had companions that would tell investigators "Come as you are" and then I had to be the bad guy and tell them that women wore dresses and that men wore suits and ties. It was the least that I could do after telling them about the gold plates being returned to heaven. :D

messygoop Wrote:
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> they downplay the notion that one has to dress...

Yes, and if they weren't told they feel even more out of place when they arrive than they would have otherwise. Poor things.

I've been ripped off and cheated more by white men in suits and ties than any other demographic. By a long shot.

Alma 31:28