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...this article from the Provo Daily Herald. Looks like THE CHURCH decided those 18 year old missionaries might need a little more training..
https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/faith/lds-church-releases-new-planning-tool-for-its-prospective-missionaries/article_4b9d31ed-3dac-5c1d-b591-d7a3ba2b9d15.html
And please don't read the comments off to the right. Those Utah county people are worse than the KSL ones.
https://www.heraldextra.com/news/local/faith/lds-church-releases-new-planning-tool-for-its-prospective-missionaries/article_4b9d31ed-3dac-5c1d-b591-d7a3ba2b9d15.html
And please don't read the comments off to the right. Those Utah county people are worse than the KSL ones.
Reading between the lines, it looks like an effort to tell some prospective missionaries: "If you and your parents think you're still way too immature and ignorant to be an effective missionary--you're probably correct. Take some time and think about it."
I remember when I was missionary age, it was pretty much expected that you would "put in your papers" right after you turned 19. A few smart people didn't rush it and instead finished up a year of college or got their foot into a job with future prospects before rushing out. But back then, such things were interpreted as being a bit too worldly and a sign of a lack of zeal to "serve" as a missionary.
As a result, most of the older young missionaries (i.e. guys and gals in their mid-to-late twenties) were converts who had come late to the game, so getting out late to "the mission field" had been unavoidable. Getting out there later was definitely not encouraged like this article seems to be doing.
I get the feeling that the missionary program in general is getting worse results than ever and, in an age where critics and questioning people can easily fact-check the missionaries' every assertion by simply turning on the Internet, the LSD Church is probably finding that sending out an army of baby-faced kids who know next to nothing about the doctrines and history of their own religion is getting dangerously close to "worse than nothing" territory as far as results go. Calling these baby-face young boys "Elders" doesn't seem to help anything.
I remember when I was missionary age, it was pretty much expected that you would "put in your papers" right after you turned 19. A few smart people didn't rush it and instead finished up a year of college or got their foot into a job with future prospects before rushing out. But back then, such things were interpreted as being a bit too worldly and a sign of a lack of zeal to "serve" as a missionary.
As a result, most of the older young missionaries (i.e. guys and gals in their mid-to-late twenties) were converts who had come late to the game, so getting out late to "the mission field" had been unavoidable. Getting out there later was definitely not encouraged like this article seems to be doing.
I get the feeling that the missionary program in general is getting worse results than ever and, in an age where critics and questioning people can easily fact-check the missionaries' every assertion by simply turning on the Internet, the LSD Church is probably finding that sending out an army of baby-faced kids who know next to nothing about the doctrines and history of their own religion is getting dangerously close to "worse than nothing" territory as far as results go. Calling these baby-face young boys "Elders" doesn't seem to help anything.
I think the church is tired of having to babysit very bored (and possibly immature) missionaries. They got away for years duping them over unrealistic expectations, miracles and other nonsense~ obedience of silly mission rules will lead to high baptismal numbers.
I guess that sending kids out as missionaries at age 18 hasn't worked out as well as the church hoped it would.
Getting 18 year olds separated from the opposite gender for 2 years and then pressure them the marry quickly and have kids. I think they are achieving the real goal (which has little to do with proselytizing). The problem is the side effects of more missionaries returning home early.
With the TSCC having access to mission service info, marriage dates and statistics of members, they know exactly what they are doing when they change age requirements for mission service. They are sitting on more data than the federal government and Facebook combined.
With the TSCC having access to mission service info, marriage dates and statistics of members, they know exactly what they are doing when they change age requirements for mission service. They are sitting on more data than the federal government and Facebook combined.
But it's your fault. The Brethren are never wrong.
told me yesterday that she had put in her papers for a mission when she realized she was only doing it to please her parents. Her way of showing her parents she was DONE with the lds church was to go get a tattoo. Her dad told her he had never been so disappointed in her.
I knew when I started with her (the same day) that she was obviously raised mormon and I wasn't quite sure what to think or say to her. So yesterday she starts telling me how crazy TBM her parents are. She is living with her boyfriend and her parents haven't a clue that she even has a boyfriend. She's going to go work in Alaska for the summer to get away from here.
I knew when I started with her (the same day) that she was obviously raised mormon and I wasn't quite sure what to think or say to her. So yesterday she starts telling me how crazy TBM her parents are. She is living with her boyfriend and her parents haven't a clue that she even has a boyfriend. She's going to go work in Alaska for the summer to get away from here.
A friend's son came home from his mission after less than one year. She started to give me the excuse but I stopped her and said "he is a volunteer, he can quit at any time, for any reason, or for no reason at all." All his HS friends are back early as well. This is in the heart of Utah. Are there any stats on how many return early ?
>>Are there any stats on how many return early?
For various reasons, 35% of female missionaries, and 29% of male missionaries are currently returning early.
https://religionnews.com/2018/09/26/more-mormon-missionaries-are-coming-home-early-study-shows/
For various reasons, 35% of female missionaries, and 29% of male missionaries are currently returning early.
https://religionnews.com/2018/09/26/more-mormon-missionaries-are-coming-home-early-study-shows/
summer Wrote:
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> >>Are there any stats on how many return early?
>
> For various reasons, 35% of female missionaries,
> and 29% of male missionaries are currently
> returning early.
that would qualify as "dropping like flies" compared to when I was on a mission (back in ancient history)
could things revert back to when THE (MORmON) church selects who gets to go in order to cull out the more problematic candidates ??
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> >>Are there any stats on how many return early?
>
> For various reasons, 35% of female missionaries,
> and 29% of male missionaries are currently
> returning early.
that would qualify as "dropping like flies" compared to when I was on a mission (back in ancient history)
could things revert back to when THE (MORmON) church selects who gets to go in order to cull out the more problematic candidates ??
back when I was a mushyonary.
Probably something like 2-3% would have been the norm back then. 5% would have been unusually high.
If there had been a mission where 1/3 of the missionaries were going home early, alarms would have sounded, panic buttons would have been pushed, heads would have rolled, a mission president may have experienced an involuntary early release from his calling.
But, apparently, step-by-step, the LSD church has gradually arrived at this statistically grim state of affairs without it causing much of a fuss of any kind.
Another "success story" for the correlated, one-size-fits-all, centralized, concentrated, consolidated and corporate-style policies of the "inspired" brethren.
It's like they're sending out armies of ill-prepared, immature, inexperienced kids to sell chimney-sweep services door-to-door...in the year 2019.
The kids don't really even know what chimney-sweep services are, but have been trained to bear their testimonies at every turn, and to everyone they meet, to boldly affirm that the chimney-sweep services they are selling are exactly what everyone most needs in their life.
People then treat them like irritating idiots and no one wants to buy what they're selling. What's worse is that what they're selling is obviously irrelevant and unnecessary to the lives of 99.999% of the people they meet.
This state of affairs in turn makes the kids increasingly miserable and depressed, along with taking on board guilt for failing to succeed in an endeavor that was never going to succeed in any case.
Brilliant.
I'll give it a maximum of 1 to 2 more decades before the LSD Church leaders give up and do a MAJOR overhaul of the entire program, such that it will be completely unrecognizable compared to the traditional program that has been followed for the past 80 years or so.
Probably something like 2-3% would have been the norm back then. 5% would have been unusually high.
If there had been a mission where 1/3 of the missionaries were going home early, alarms would have sounded, panic buttons would have been pushed, heads would have rolled, a mission president may have experienced an involuntary early release from his calling.
But, apparently, step-by-step, the LSD church has gradually arrived at this statistically grim state of affairs without it causing much of a fuss of any kind.
Another "success story" for the correlated, one-size-fits-all, centralized, concentrated, consolidated and corporate-style policies of the "inspired" brethren.
It's like they're sending out armies of ill-prepared, immature, inexperienced kids to sell chimney-sweep services door-to-door...in the year 2019.
The kids don't really even know what chimney-sweep services are, but have been trained to bear their testimonies at every turn, and to everyone they meet, to boldly affirm that the chimney-sweep services they are selling are exactly what everyone most needs in their life.
People then treat them like irritating idiots and no one wants to buy what they're selling. What's worse is that what they're selling is obviously irrelevant and unnecessary to the lives of 99.999% of the people they meet.
This state of affairs in turn makes the kids increasingly miserable and depressed, along with taking on board guilt for failing to succeed in an endeavor that was never going to succeed in any case.
Brilliant.
I'll give it a maximum of 1 to 2 more decades before the LSD Church leaders give up and do a MAJOR overhaul of the entire program, such that it will be completely unrecognizable compared to the traditional program that has been followed for the past 80 years or so.
According to the study's authors, the number of ERMs for the Greatest Generation and the Boomers was statistically insignificant. It started to spike for Gen Y and has increased even more for the Millennials.
I think that perhaps there has been a shift so that as missionaries see others leaving, the idea of leaving becomes more conceivable to them. Sending the young men out at age 18 hasn't helped.
I also think there is a difference in the generations. Millennials have grown up in an age of constant communication and connectedness with others (and I don't see this as a weakness.) IMO telling them that they can't have weekly phone calls, Skype-sessions, etc. with family and friends is ridiculous. The church has been trying to adapt to the internet age, but I don't think the leaders really understand how the "communication age" has profoundly changed the younger members.
I think that perhaps there has been a shift so that as missionaries see others leaving, the idea of leaving becomes more conceivable to them. Sending the young men out at age 18 hasn't helped.
I also think there is a difference in the generations. Millennials have grown up in an age of constant communication and connectedness with others (and I don't see this as a weakness.) IMO telling them that they can't have weekly phone calls, Skype-sessions, etc. with family and friends is ridiculous. The church has been trying to adapt to the internet age, but I don't think the leaders really understand how the "communication age" has profoundly changed the younger members.
This is so important. They are volunteers. The older generations always looked at it as some sort of draft that they were required to participate no matter what. It was their duty, to stay and baptize as many people as possible and beat themselves if they fell short.
Their families back home would act as enforcers keeping the young men from dodging the call.
The young people are in a world where 2 years is an eternity. They have so many other options, its not like they are sitting back home on Grandpa Alma's farm anymore waiting for something meaningful to do. They don't necessarily want to rush off and be salesmen for two years.
And truly, they are not likely as converted to the whole story as much as the older generations were either. Boomers for the most part bought the whole thing, every native american was a lamanite. The garden of Eden was in Missouri. And you better have your food storage ready because stuffs about to get serious real soon!
Young members for the most part may see the principles of the church as overall good. They don't agree on all points. And they might enjoy the social support.
Its way different.
Their families back home would act as enforcers keeping the young men from dodging the call.
The young people are in a world where 2 years is an eternity. They have so many other options, its not like they are sitting back home on Grandpa Alma's farm anymore waiting for something meaningful to do. They don't necessarily want to rush off and be salesmen for two years.
And truly, they are not likely as converted to the whole story as much as the older generations were either. Boomers for the most part bought the whole thing, every native american was a lamanite. The garden of Eden was in Missouri. And you better have your food storage ready because stuffs about to get serious real soon!
Young members for the most part may see the principles of the church as overall good. They don't agree on all points. And they might enjoy the social support.
Its way different.
I am glad that missionaries are returning home early. Back when I was on my mission (86-88 Philippines Manila) going home early was almost unheard of. I still feel guilty for converting dozens of poor desperate people to join the cult telling them it would improve their lives. Looking back I would be so much more at peace with my past if I had returned early.
praydude Wrote:
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> I am glad that missionaries are returning home
> early. Back when I was on my mission (86-88
> Philippines Manila) going home early was almost
> unheard of. I still feel guilty for converting
> dozens of poor desperate people to join the cult
> telling them it would improve their lives.
> Looking back I would be so much more at peace with
> my past if I had returned early.
I left the MTC, but remained an active believer for 25 years after. I felt enormous guilt and shame over it when the topic of missions was ever brought up. Eventually the conversation would turn to me and was asked "where did you serve Brother....?" I would then have to explain what happened and then deal with the weird looks that inevitably would follow. For the first few years afterwards I felt mostly okay about my decision, other than the fact that my lack of a mission, and coming from the east coast, meant that most of the Morridor girls at college wanted nothing to do with me. But then as I grew older, I began to regret not serving a mission. It weighed on me heavily. But over the past few years, as I have been on my journey out, I am quite relieved I did not serve a mission. Those few years feel like they would have been wasted now. I took a few years off from college to work and get some career vocational training, and now I am very happy I did that instead of serving a mission. Kind of funny how my perspective of it has moved around over the years.
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am glad that missionaries are returning home
> early. Back when I was on my mission (86-88
> Philippines Manila) going home early was almost
> unheard of. I still feel guilty for converting
> dozens of poor desperate people to join the cult
> telling them it would improve their lives.
> Looking back I would be so much more at peace with
> my past if I had returned early.
I left the MTC, but remained an active believer for 25 years after. I felt enormous guilt and shame over it when the topic of missions was ever brought up. Eventually the conversation would turn to me and was asked "where did you serve Brother....?" I would then have to explain what happened and then deal with the weird looks that inevitably would follow. For the first few years afterwards I felt mostly okay about my decision, other than the fact that my lack of a mission, and coming from the east coast, meant that most of the Morridor girls at college wanted nothing to do with me. But then as I grew older, I began to regret not serving a mission. It weighed on me heavily. But over the past few years, as I have been on my journey out, I am quite relieved I did not serve a mission. Those few years feel like they would have been wasted now. I took a few years off from college to work and get some career vocational training, and now I am very happy I did that instead of serving a mission. Kind of funny how my perspective of it has moved around over the years.
during my mission. But I'm almost 100% certain that every single one of them went completely inactive within just a few years.
I served in a country full of people who generally see churches and religious organizations as interchangeable social clubs. It didn't really matter what advertising or propaganda a particular church made for itself. Most of the people took it all with a grain of salt and could easily tune it out as little more than white noise, the same way that nobody takes the advertising of competing car companies all that seriously. You buy the car because you like the style and it suits your needs at the moment, not because you really literally believe the advertising copy.
It was just the nature of the mission and the country. There were a few exceptions. As long as they felt like they were getting something out of it, some of them would stay (unless and until something better came along). I doubt that any of them would stay in if it turned out to be inconvenient or miserable just because they had a burning testimony of the BoM or Joseph Smith.
The ratio of inactives to actives is probably one of the highest in Mormondumb.
But if I had reason to believe that anyone had spent a life of misery in the church mainly due to my efforts to convert them in the first place, that would trouble me greatly.
I served in a country full of people who generally see churches and religious organizations as interchangeable social clubs. It didn't really matter what advertising or propaganda a particular church made for itself. Most of the people took it all with a grain of salt and could easily tune it out as little more than white noise, the same way that nobody takes the advertising of competing car companies all that seriously. You buy the car because you like the style and it suits your needs at the moment, not because you really literally believe the advertising copy.
It was just the nature of the mission and the country. There were a few exceptions. As long as they felt like they were getting something out of it, some of them would stay (unless and until something better came along). I doubt that any of them would stay in if it turned out to be inconvenient or miserable just because they had a burning testimony of the BoM or Joseph Smith.
The ratio of inactives to actives is probably one of the highest in Mormondumb.
But if I had reason to believe that anyone had spent a life of misery in the church mainly due to my efforts to convert them in the first place, that would trouble me greatly.
Interesting, interesting that the MormonCult is taking the road of giving the mishies some options. Hmmm, let's guess the real reasons.
1) It has become a "lot" of home-sick mishies and a real headache for the MormonCult to accomodate the whole scene of whiny 18 year olds, who are used to hovering parents, all of whom are complaining of this and that and wanting to leave. To this I say....just another time you, the "inspired" cult, failed to deliver inspiration. So sorry Cult.
2) Mishies are bored out in the so-called field-ripe-to-harvest with no harvest to be seen or heard! Plus, they are finding out some mighty interesting information when they head to the internet to make heads or tails out of the "anti-info" they hear from the people they do manage to corner and talk with.
My guess is that the mission leaders are having to deal with a surge of repercussions from "bored mishies" getting into trouble. 18 year olds are not old enough or mature enough to be on missions to begin with! Cult, leave this to those who are mature enough and sincerely want to be missionaries. Do not expect 18 year olds, who have been INDOCTRINATED since they were 3 year olds that serving a mission is the Bee-all and Do-all, you know, something they MUST do because it is what God and Jesus insist they do, to act any different than the age they are and deserve to enjoy. How about letting them do what they should be able to do at this age by exploring and having freedom? Now that would be a huge chunk of worthwhile revelation!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2019 07:32PM by presleynfactsrock.
1) It has become a "lot" of home-sick mishies and a real headache for the MormonCult to accomodate the whole scene of whiny 18 year olds, who are used to hovering parents, all of whom are complaining of this and that and wanting to leave. To this I say....just another time you, the "inspired" cult, failed to deliver inspiration. So sorry Cult.
2) Mishies are bored out in the so-called field-ripe-to-harvest with no harvest to be seen or heard! Plus, they are finding out some mighty interesting information when they head to the internet to make heads or tails out of the "anti-info" they hear from the people they do manage to corner and talk with.
My guess is that the mission leaders are having to deal with a surge of repercussions from "bored mishies" getting into trouble. 18 year olds are not old enough or mature enough to be on missions to begin with! Cult, leave this to those who are mature enough and sincerely want to be missionaries. Do not expect 18 year olds, who have been INDOCTRINATED since they were 3 year olds that serving a mission is the Bee-all and Do-all, you know, something they MUST do because it is what God and Jesus insist they do, to act any different than the age they are and deserve to enjoy. How about letting them do what they should be able to do at this age by exploring and having freedom? Now that would be a huge chunk of worthwhile revelation!
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/02/2019 07:32PM by presleynfactsrock.