Henry Bemis has a great question.

https://www.exmormon.org/phorum/read.php?2,2196234,2196468#msg-2196468


I like to think I am able to distinguish the darkness of my own shades of grey when I compare my biases towards Mormonism and places like India and not judge the people here as much different than the many Mormons who have shunned me?

“They wonder why I have converted. They often abuse fellow [Afghan Christians]; sometimes people even throw stones at our homes,”
https://www.worldwatchmonitor.org/coe/afghan-convert-to-christianity-flees-but-persecution-follows-him/

No Mormon has thrown stones at my home that I know of...

I love Mormons so it isn't as much an "us" and "them" for me. Mormons know my position. They don't like it but they know it. I don't think I persecute them for their religion. They think I'm rude, mean, and disrespectful towards them when they invite my opinion or I feel prompted by the flow of the conversation to share it.

Early on in my post Mormonism I think I was Mormonaphobic. I had been a Mens Rea Mormon before coming out as a non-believer. I had knowingly perpetuated a fraud and wanted to punish anyone but myself for doing so...

I am

Some .posters seem to be. Others, no. I think it is Mormonophobic to stereotype all Mormons or belittle all Mormons for doing what some do. Mormons are people just like everyone else.

but after my experiences just recently, I'd say I am. I'm weary of making my reality known and then having them completely ignore what I just told them.

My aunt sent us those BofMs for Christmas and I wasn't going to say anything until my ex and my son both were very angry about their BofMs. My aunt felt the need to warn me what she was doing before Christmas. So I did state to her that I don't believe. I never will again. blah, blah, blah, blah and she sent me a really nice e-mail stating that she had a lot of respect for me and living a life of integrity. Then the wedding. Things were okay at the wedding (other than my ex's sister telling me how beautiful it was).

Then the e-mail. She actually took a good day for me and took that away from me. I felt that came out of left field because of how she has been acting towards me. How can I trust them? I will do everything I can to have a relationship with my daughter, but I can't be totally honest with her EVER. She told the guy she almost married that she was afraid that I'd try to teach her kids negative things about the church. I told her that that wasn't my job. They are her children. Of course, they can watch by example (not like I'll be dead long before I have any influence). But let's see what she does with her kids. Will they be allowed to be around me? It remains to be seen.

And even the neighbors, who I adore, throw something into the mix now and then like inviting me to the ward Christmas party, so it is a constant guessing game when it comes to mormons. Lately, I'm really weary of them. Believe me EB, going to the temple grounds was a real mind fuck (I didn't stand outside, the wedding was over before I got there). Something I couldn't explain if I tried.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/05/2019 07:25PM by cl2.

cl2 Wrote:
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> Believe me EB,
> going to the temple grounds was a real mind fuck
> (I didn't stand outside, the wedding was over
> before I got there). Something I couldn't explain
> if I tried.

I would like you to try. I'm dreading my future experience.

Just walking towards the grounds from the parking lot was mind blowing as I haven't been there since 1990. I pass by it often. I don't take note unless my boyfriend mentions it. He likes the neat old building, but I told him I know what goes on in that neat old building and I don't find it neat at all. I ignore it.

But I was kind of losing it as I was walking towards the building and then seeing the people who had attended standing around waiting. They have them come out a side door now. Seems to make it more special, the door. It is a nicer door than the main door, the one I came out of. But to all of a sudden be around these people who had just witnessed my daughter getting married. I thought I was prepared. But a feeling of sadness, yet happy she had gotten married, but angry and also in pain not just from her wedding, but from being married there, stepping back over the line of before and after. I don't allow myself to go there very often in my life. I can write about it here, but I avoid mormonism and my previous life as much as I can. Easy when most of my family is not active mormon. My daughter doesn't bring it up as often as she used to and she doesn't live here.

It was just a wave of emotions that hit me full force. I did mention it to my boyfriend, that this was very difficult.

I told my aunt today--I haven't let her write to me, but I came to a conclusion, but I told her today that the ONLY PERSON who was worthy to be in there with my daughter was ME. Not one person who was there was worthy. I also told my aunt I don't know that I believe in God or what I believe, but I KNOW what I don't believe. I told her if she ever brings up religion again or does something like the book of mormons again, I will never talk to her again. I told I remember where she is at, that we all of a sudden don't just forget being mormon, but she doesn't know where I'm at.

What I can warn you about is don't go when they all go. Go later, about half an hour after the wedding is supposed to start. I certainly wouldn't wait inside and I wouldn't wait outside. We got there after the actual "wedding," but before my daughter and new son-in-law came out. The only thing I can say is BE PREPARED for the high and low emotions. I hope you have someone who will be WITH YOU and not part of the group of the "clean."

cl2 Wrote:
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> What I can warn you about is don't go when they
> all go. Go later, about half an hour after the
> wedding is supposed to start. I certainly wouldn't
> wait inside and I wouldn't wait outside. We got
> there after the actual "wedding," but before my
> daughter and new son-in-law came out. The only
> thing I can say is BE PREPARED for the high and
> low emotions. I hope you have someone who will be
> WITH YOU and not part of the group of the "clean."

Great advice! Thank you!

One issue I've ran into with my family is that I've felt like I've had to come to terms with how they perceive me. It is hard to admit that no matter how "good" I am, no matter how hard I try to be a respectable person, they will always only see me as flawed because I left. I will always be the black sheep with them. Sometimes I like to drink so they paint that as a dirty secret about me, like I am an alcoholic. Of course I drink responsibly and I don't even like to be "drunk" but one shot of Vodka means my entire morality is questioned. I try not to blame them preferring to blame their years of brainwashing, but sometimes it still hurts and can cause me to not feel "good enough"

I don't steal, or take advantage. I'm not violent and I consciously try to put others first, yet at the end of the day, I am a kind of villain. And I always will be until I decide to go back

nonsequiter Wrote:
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> And I
> always will be until I decide to go back

I have to give props to my wife in her defense of me. I am also a kind of villain to many people in our family and the surrounding Mormons but no one dare cross swords with her about it. I see it and she does as well but she supports me fully. Rare. Wonderful. Supportive.

She doesn't like me putting down Mormonism because she doesn't put down my agnosticism but I can't help myself. It is just so much a part of me as well as bat shiz crazy to take as gospel truth and guide for living.

I guess a lot of Mormons don't follow it so well but putting on an appearance of doing so is so Mormon. My wife isn't one of those Mormons.

in that most of my family is out and my family was never holier than thou. My sister feels like the odd man out as she still attends, although she doesn't believe in most of it.

It doesn't take mormonism to feel misunderstood or less than. My sisters have always been really good at that where I'm concerned. I tried for a long time to get along with both of them. I finally gave up. I can be nice to them from a distance, but I need to keep that distance. We can't be close. Because of them, I never wanted a daughter. I'm just not a normal female per my boyfriend (a good thing he says), that would be emotionally and mentally.

I think that I am because I experienced mostly unpleasantness when personally dealing with church leadership. That's why I struggled to keep a positive outlook and wrongly believed their tirades. I foolishly thought that I needed to be told how unworthy I was in their expertise judgment. After all, who was I to question their holy authority.

I had some good and mediocre leaders. These were few and far between. Maybe to be fair, I should include some of them more often in my Mormon memoirs.

messygoop Wrote:
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> I had some good and mediocre leaders. These were
> few and far between. Maybe to be fair, I should
> include some of them more often in my Mormon
> memoirs.

I had a few diamonds in my Mormon rough. Their saving grace was always dealing with me as a person with feelings and not as a soul to be saved.

I have struggled with this issue. I am very angry with the church - VERY angry, sometimes - and I feel I'm justified. My husband asks, as a means of thoughtful discussion, why I direct my anger at the LDS church and not as much towards other religions. I feel the LDS church is far more manipulative, cunning, and controlling than other religions, but then I study these other religions and realize perhaps that isn't so. But I still feel that way. I'm angry at all religions, but mostly at the one I left behind. It seems justified, but...maybe it's not. They're all hideous. I'm still working it all out.

Cathy Wrote:
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> I'm still working it all out.

I have been since 2003 and in the process I lost The Holy Ghost, then Jesus and finally I committed mental deicide. What's next?

The pain I feel and felt comes from Mormonism and it is such a harmful meme. But then look at The Catholics. I know a few well and their religion goes through hell and they still believe.

At the end of the day I still have a shelf but it isn't just Mormonism. It is my religious tolerance shelf. It is littered with people I consider good. If it breaks it will hurt them.

you experienced it. I don't like other religions either. I can't begin to comprehend why anyone goes to any church. I read your post about seeing a monastery. There are still some things that might fascinate me including the monastery up Ogden Canyon, which has been sold I believe. If I went to Europe, I'd probably go to some religious buildings. But I won't be going to Europe anyway.

Mormonism is abusive. I've watched the Leah Remini show on Scientology and I believe they are worse than mormons, but by watching it, I'm able to draw parallels to mormonism.

There is too much to life to be wasting it on religion. My religion can be being out in nature or doing yard work or spending time with my kids and DOGS. My religion is definitely dogs.

YOU JUST FLAT OUT ROCK CL2,

cl2 wrote: There is too much to life to be wasting it on religion. My religion can be being out in nature or doing yard work or spending time with my kids and DOGS. My religion is definitely dogs.

I agree with everything you stated above!

I used to be a Mophobic which reared it's ugly head at the last family reunion I went to 1999, where I told my TBM BYU sister and her Nazi husband that she had sex with Satan which resulted in her two demon spawn children. And that exchange resulted in a glorious 12 years of no contact with them. It really bothered my mom and dad. But I told them, "She's your daughter and just my sister, which doesn't mean anything to me right now."

I have obviously calmed down over the years. I have my husband of 14 years to thank for that. Now he's the one with all the emotions and gets angry with me and calls me Spock, (no emotions) when something about Mormons comes up that I don't get upset about.

My religion is also my yard and my rescue babies. The question is who rescued who? Cheers cl2

Right with you. I know it's illogical to focus my anger mostly on the LDS church, and I truly loathe all religious organizations and what they do to people and families. But...meh, I still do it. I'm getting there, though.

One of the things needing to change is this childish habit of typing the word Mormon to make it look like Moron.

If we are of the mindset that the church is a cult then a lot of its members if not most are victims.so why full grown adults think its cute to spell moron from mormonism confuses me as you wouldn't call a victim of rape a whore.

I used to like this forum and the other place but the childishness is toxic on both formats, not to mention the weird infatuation with "dr" Dehlin.

moron. Are they ALL victims? Really? Or are they victimizers? I purposely don't capitalize mormon. Even saying mormon now is a negative thing to mormons, so do you call them mormons or do you now call them members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints? Why should I have any respect for that religion?

Hate the game, not tha playa! That's what Jesus taught.

I used to be more mormonphobic than
I am now. Time heals all wounds, or at least makes things better. I am now still recovering.

I like to think that I have healed through the need to be Mormon-phobic. I'm pretty much indifferent to Mormons now. There are a few whose company I still enjoy, although I have made it clear that I enjoy them as FRIENDS, not as Mormons, so our conversations are about books, movies, current events, kids, grandkids, or whatever.

Presumably, "Mormonophobic" would be a descriptive term for a person who has an extreme or irrational fear of or aversion to Mormons/Mormonism/the LDS Church.

I plead not guilty.

I don't particularly fear Mormonism.

My aversion to Mormonoidal people and beliefs is entirely rational, reasonable and well-founded.

My aversion to Mormonoidal people and beliefs is not extreme.

Having been raised in the cult from birth and then successfully thinking my way out of it by my early twenties, I have a reasonable fascination and interest in the topic. Not irrational. Not extreme. Not fear-based.

Wally Prince Wrote:
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> I don't particularly fear Mormonism.

If I did I would be more of a basket case than I already am. The difference between my basket and many Mormon baskets is I think I've grown up out of that Mormon basket and they think they are baby Moses'.

Damn right I am. and I am offended by MORmONISM too. and the reason that I am offended is because I am NOT retarded !!!