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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 01:06AM

Based on certain unreliable sources, I have learned that Nelson, Oaks and Eyring are proposing to terminate the use of the word "excommunication" when referring to a disciplinary action that purports to cancel a member's membership in the church, along with any blessings and promises that such person received as a member.

The term "dismembership" will be used to replace the term "excommunication."

Reasons given in support of this new policy:

(1) The term "dismembership" fits better with the term "disfellowship" (the term used for the milder disciplinary action that often precedes dismembership).

(2) The term "dismembership" more accurately describes the effect of the disciplinary action (i.e. the removal of members, the cancellation of membership).

(3) The term "excommunication" is a relic of Catholicism and the LSD Church is not particularly keen to have that association.

(4) Most importantly, the term "dismembership" (and related terms) has certain connotations that may psychologically have a stronger deterrent effect on members, further incentivizing them to avoid any conduct that may result in being dismembered. Bishops will be encouraged to report to congregations about persons who are dismembered from time to time in order to reinforce the deterrent effects of this policy, describing in detail the crying, weeping and wailing that often occur in connection with a dismembering proceeding.

Note: At this stage, I can only report this as a rumor. However, my usually unreliable sources have confirmed to me that this report is 100% true, except to the extent that it is not.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 01:23AM

That's pretty funny, WP.

Someone goes in for a Quart O' Love and ends up getting dismembered. What a letdown!

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 01:24AM


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Posted by: catnip ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 10:01PM

They still haven't figured out how to incorporate being hanged, drawn and quartered into the process.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 01:37AM

will this be Retroactive?

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 12:44PM

excommunicated in the sense that past excommunications will from now on be referred to as dismemberships.

Accordingly to my invariably unreliable sources, the leaders of the church commissioned a private study that revealed that deterrence of harsh criticism of the church's leadership and policies was greatly enhanced when past critics were referred to as having been "dismembered" by the church, as opposed to the past practice of referring to such critics as having been "excommunicated".

According to that study's results, 97% of the sample of active members surveyed in the study clearly indicated a "strong inclination to avoid criticism of the church" after being shown a list of past critics of the church and being told that each of the shown critics had been dismembered as punishment for their criticism.

This indicated a deterrence effect that compared favorably to a control group where the group was shown the same list of critics with the word "excommunicated" being used instead of "dismembered" to describe the disciplinary action taken. In the control group, only 57% showed a "strong inclination to avoid criticism of the church" after hearing about the excommunicated critics.

According to a Mall Street Journal report, church leader Henry Nosering (sic) expressed confidence that the new term for the ultimate disciplinary measure meted out by the church "will have a great disarming effect on critics of the church."

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 01:27PM

"Disarming?"

There should be a painting of Ammon in every disciplinary court room.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 09:46PM

According to related rumors, the Brethren are contemplating the introduction of an "instructive couplet" to be promoted among the general membership.

The working draft goes something like "For as membership comes with the laying on of hands, dismembership comes with the...". (My understanding is that they are still undecided as to how to complete the couplet.)

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Posted by: TX_Rancher ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 02:53AM

Thanks for sharing, I don't doubt it's reliable info even if labeled as "rumor." It fits the pattern and approach the church has been taking to relabel everything (see: Mormon).

It also seems to be a reaction to those who remove their names from membership (resign) and come up with a similarly inconspicuous and benign term. Make the church seem more friendly.

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Posted by: Shinehah ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 10:00AM

But is it OK to dismember yourself?

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Posted by: kathleen ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 10:49AM

Hahaha.

Wally, so fun to read. :)

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Posted by: Gold&Green ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 11:55AM

Do you think they will apply the term to those who have resigned their membership?

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 11:56AM

I'll bet that after being dismembered, you'd have to get First Presidency approval to be remembered.

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Posted by: caffiend ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 03:10PM

Some ex-Mos of my age group like to think back of the somewhat happier days before Correlation:

Try to remember the kind of September
When life was slow and oh
so mellow.
Try to remember the kind of September
When grass was green and grain was yellow.
Try to remember the kind of September
When you were a tender and callow fellow.
Try to remember and if you remember
then follow
follow.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 10:15PM

"remembership" policy, with accompanying ordinances and ministrations.

Apparently, however, the technical problems have all been solved thanks to Elder Uchtdorf, who recently introduced to the First Presidency a devout LDS member living in Innsbruck who has the specialized knowledge and skills needed to flesh out the inspiration received by the FP concerning the need for a new "remembership" process.

Understandably, President Nelson in particular was delighted when Uchtdorf brought Brother Frankenstein to Salt Lake City to support the new dismembership/remembership program. Brother Frankenstein will head up a special "Committee on Repentance and Remembering."

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Posted by: cricket ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 12:20PM

Dismemberment: The smiting off of the left hand of the spiritual degenerate who partakes of the sacrament with their left hand.

Disendowelment: Confiscation of the Temple Recommend of anyone who dares videotape the Mormon Temple Endowment. Note - not to be confused with the vintage temple penalty of "disembowelment."



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2019 12:21PM by cricket.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 01:02PM

to disarm critics.

With this new policy of threatening to dismember critics, the leaders apparently believe that they will be able to nip things in the bud at the first sign of finger pointing from critics, or any indication that something is afoot and, in so doing, will be able to keep things from getting out of hand.

My incredibly unreliable sources tell me that, for some reason, the Brethren are also calling the disciplinary action the "'Ordinance of Ammon."

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 01:28PM

Darn. You beat me to it.

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Posted by: cricket ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 06:48PM

Russell Nelson: OK, put your shoulder to the sword and smite along. I want to see elbow grease as you enforce my new policy, I mean, revelation "The Ordinance of Ammon."

Follow Dallin's example you'll be rewarded in heaven. Just please drop all of those loose arms off at his condo, not mine!

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Posted by: Pooped ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 12:24PM

It's all a giant disappointment.

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Posted by: anonandanon ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 12:29PM

Another church has another take on dismembership. Nobody is a member so nobody gets excommunicated.

https://www.christiancentury.org/blogs/archive/2010-01/dismembership

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 12:33PM

That approach sounds disturbingly . . . Christian.

We can't have that.

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Posted by: babyloncansuckit ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 03:27PM

Wasn’t Oaks disfigured in a horrible smelting accident?

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 09:50PM

...after a long period of having been quite gruntled. From what I can tell, he still has not recovered. I checked with his office and they have indicated that he is not gruntled at the present and has not been gruntled for quite some time.

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Posted by: GNPE ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 03:31PM

Look on the Bright Side!!

According to Bedknobs, there are no homosexuals to be dismembered!

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Posted by: messygoop ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 06:25PM

I always thought the church would telestialize members that had broken their ck promised covenants.

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 06:44PM

I believe the first step in the dismemberment process is telestialization.

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Posted by: mel ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 07:21PM

Thank you, Wall, and Goop, and Lot's Wife, for the great thoughts!

Dismemberization.....I can see it coming.....

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Posted by: Lot's Wife ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 08:05PM

;-)

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Posted by: Never a Member ( )
Date: February 09, 2019 08:21PM

I just happened to be reading Issue #109 of Sandra Tanner's "Salt Lake City Messenger" (Oct. 2007), featuring Part 2 of "Jerald Tanner's Quest For Truth." This 3rd-person chronicle covers his intellectual and spiritual journey out of LDS and into Biblical Christianity. I find Utah Lighthouse Ministry's material very thorough.

Tanner researched and discovered problems in the LDS records (JS' visions, especially). From p.4, biographer Ronald V. Huggins' account of Tanner's separation from the SLC LDS Church:

"In August of 1960 Jerald was formally excommunicated from the LDS Church. Two years before, Jerald had asked that his name be removed from the membership roles and had been assured by a member of the Stake Presidency that it would be done. He now discovered, however, that the man had not kept his word, that in fact nothing had been done. Jerald wrote to the President of the LDS Church, who then referred the matter to Bishop Alma E. Kehl of the Cannon Seventh Ward in Salt Lake City. He was summoned to appear with witnesses for a Bishop's Court on August 14, 1960. When he arrived, however, he was told his witnesses (Sandra, his mother Helen and another woman) could not be present during the hearing. The rest of the farcical proceedings is perhaps best told in Jerald's own words:

'I walked into the room alone, and they shut the door. They asked me if I would mind if they made a tape recording of the proceedings. I permitted them to make the recording but asked if I could also make a recording. The answer was no. They asked me if I wanted to plead guilty to the "alleged wrong doing" of requesting my name to be removed from the Church records and teaching doctrines not in harmony with the Church. I replied that I did not believe my actions were "wrong" in these regards, and therefore could not plead guilty, but that I wanted my name removed without the use of the expression "wrong doing." This caused a great deal of confusion among the members of the "Bishop's Court," and they did not know how to proceed. After conversing among themselves they decided to proceed without the admission of "wrong doing" on my part.'

"On August 28, 1960, Jerald received a letter informing him that he had been excommunicated from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, remarkably enough without mentioning that he had been found guilty of anything. Rather it said only 'In accordance with your request your name has been removed from the records and you are no longer considered a member of the said Church.'"

(References deleted; available on line, utlm.org.)


If you read all that, good for you. My point is that in 1960, there was only one way to leave: declare yourself, or be found, guilty of immortality and/or apostasy, and get excommunicated.

What I think the SLC church is doing is to blur the distinction between "for cause" expulsions (excommunication) and "voluntary" departures. However a person separates out, he has been "UN-membered" or "DIS-membered." If you hear about So-and-So being "dismembered," you don't know whose decision it was--his, or the church's.

What remains to be seen is if they come up with a euphemism (or procedure) to replace the "Court of Love," which is an appalling euphemism itself.

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Posted by: elderpopejoy ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 12:06AM

Wally Prince Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Based on certain unreliable sources, I have
> learned that Nelson, Oaks and Eyring are proposing
> to terminate the use of the word "excommunication"
> The term "dismembership" will be used to replace it".


If your sources are reliable, this is a true instance of how Orwellian Newspeak was designed to revise our language.

Instead of the dreaded Roman Catholic term, they'll replace it with something to do with the lopping off of human extremities.

Print it! Old words go down the memory hole.

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Posted by: Eric K ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 02:59PM

Clever post. When I first read it, it seemed plausible. That is how weird Mormonism is in reality. Such a thing could be possible and likely a close variant of that will appear in the new future.

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Posted by: Lowpriest ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 03:13PM

This rumor sounds like satire.

It's just Orwellian enough to seem possible.

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Posted by: Wally Prince ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 10:03PM

...self-parodying that it's hard to keep up.

Hinckley made a mockery of so many things so fast that I gave up even trying to add any mockery of my own during his reign.

Now Nelson is introducing one self-defeating triviality and petty policy after another...with all the revelatory pomp and pretentiousness he can muster.

As I wrote tongue-in-cheek about the dismembership rumor, I actually was wondering if I would inadvertently be giving him some ideas. Guess I'll have to wait and see. ;o)

When he insisted on changing the name of the Motabs to the Tabernacle Choir at Temple Square, I was thinking of doing a riff on the "Tabby CATS" sequel to the CATS Broadway musical, featuring the Tabby CATS (formerly known as the Mormon Tabernacle Choir) all dressed up in cat costumes, performing live on Broadway three times a month for the next year. But, in the current climate, it seemed too realistic.

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Posted by: pollythinks ( )
Date: February 10, 2019 03:14PM

Posted by: Wally Prince

Rumor of the Day: New Terminology for Disciplinary Action... new

Based on certain unreliable sources, I have learned that Nelson, Oaks and Eyring are proposing to terminate the use of the word "excommunication" when referring to a disciplinary action that purports to cancel a member's membership in the church, along with any blessings and promises that such person received as a member.

The term "dismember-ship" will be used to replace the term
"excommunication."
-------
Thanks for the info, WP. It is good to know what to call what local authorities of the church have in mind for me, the next time they plan to get rid of me (as occurred in the past).

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